Hello guys,
Me again. Trying to learn about contemporary diesel locomotives.
First of all, Is Alco out of business? I thought I read that somewhere.
And which of these engines is bigger as in more powerful or even more modern.
EMD SD70M
EMD SD70MAC
EMD SD80MAC
EMD SD90MAC
It is pretty obvious that the SD70 Precedes the SD90 and they must be some changes but were these huge changes or just aesthetics.
Maybe a bigger generator?
And how well do they compare to the General Electric locos?
GE AC4400CW
GE C30-7
GE C44-9W
GE P42
GE U30C
Was the AC4400 the answer to the SD70 and therefore the SD90 the answer the GE's AC4400?
Any help will be great. There's not much in wiki about all of these locos.
thanks.
Inder, check out the following sites;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM-EMD_locomotives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GE_locomotives
Stephen
Inder,
for your GE list, you have a span of many decades..
Here are rough dates and models, and not all models shown,
but here is a stab at it:
EMD
1940's - F-units, E-units, early SW switchers.
1950's - F's and E's continued, GP7, GP9, SD7, SD9, SW switchers.
1960's - GP30, GP35, SD40, SD45
1970's - SD40-2, GP38-2, GP40-2
1980's - SD50, SD60, SD70, GP50, GP60
1990's - SD70, SD80, SD90, widecabs. no more GP's or SW's.
2000's - SD70, SD90 (and variants) 6-axle only, all widecabs.
Currently EMD is only offering the SD70M-2 and the SD70ACe.
in EMD parlance, a GP is always 4-axle and a SD is always 6-axle.
GE
1920's-1960's - diesel switchers only.
1960's - first U-boat, U25B
1970's - U-boats. 4 and 6 axle varients, (U30B, U33C, etc.)
1980's - dash-7 series
1990's - dash 8 and dash 9 series- last of the 4-axle units.
2000's - dash 9 widecabs and Evolution series. 6-axle only.
In GE parlance, "B" is 4-axle and "C" is 6-axle.
U30B = 4-axle U-boat
U30C = 6=axle U-boat
B23-7 = 4 axle dash-7
C39-8 = 6 axle dash-8
Alco
1940's - Alco PA and Alco FA , RS2, RS3, and switchers
1950's - PA and FA continue, RS11, RS32, RS36
1960's - first of the Century series, C420, C424, C628, C630 etc
1969 - Alco goes out of business in 1969, peaks with the C636.
C420, C424 = 4-axle
C628, C630 = 6-axle.
Fairbanks Morse and Baldwin also make diesels in the 1940's and 1950's.
yes, I know there are a LOT of models missing!
I made no attempt to list them all! ;)
so you dont need to tell me which are missing. ;)
I meant this as just a rough guide..
GE AC4400CW - 1990's-2000's
GE C30-7 - 1980's
GE C44-9W - 1990's
GE P42 - 1990's-2000's
GE U30C - 1970's
the "latest and greatest" of the GE's is the Evolution series,
such as the ES44AC ("ES" for "Evolution Series")
dash-9's are still in production as well..I think.
Scot
Alco has been out of business since the mid-sixties; the "Century" type locomotives were probably their last major effort.
As far as history goes, American Locomotive Company has a rather robust career as what was probably the most predominant steam locomotive manufacturer in this country, and probably the world.
Just before the outbreak of WWll, they had entered diesel production with the RS-1 and DL-109 as prime engines.After the outbreak of the war, Alco's resources were requisitioned by the government to produce tanks, and marine armament, such as the main longrifles used aboard cruisers, etc; as well as other military hardware; and diesel development was shelved, unlike General Motors, who was allowed to produce diesels, ostensibly for the war effort.
After the war, Alco got back into production, but was still dragged by the steam production, as well as the foot-dragging by some of the upper echelon, who wanted to pursue steam production. THis inner squabbling, as well as EMD's (GM) stepped up production of the "F" series diesels-and the very large egg that was laid with the disastrous early power plants, led to the company's slow demise; their "RS", FA and "PA" series units pretty much turning into their mainstay of revenue.
THe ramping up of GE forced this once fabulous "can do no wrong" company in a weak third place in sales. By the end of the fifties, they were all but done; but some die hard; The "century" series was a pretty good engine and was a promising workhorse; alas, too little too late. They just couldn';t keep up with the competition's technology. By 1968, they were finished; and Schenectedy, New York, finally lost it's home of the "Glamour Girl".
Rich
Scottychaos,
Thank you for your list. I printed it and I will hang it up on my wall.
So far I have purchased the following:
GE AC4400CW
GE C44-9W qty-2
8-40 CW
a 4 axle CW
GP-50
SD-45
SD-90
Alco C628 qty - 2
Quote from: Inder on September 10, 2007, 11:22:04 AM
Scottychaos,
Thank you for your list. I printed it and I will hang it up on my wall.
So far I have purchased the following:
GE AC4400CW
GE C44-9W qty-2
8-40 CW
a 4 axle CW
GP-50
SD-45
SD-90
Alco C628 qty - 2
no problem! ;D
wow, thats quite a selection of diesels! ;D
are you modeling a particular road name or era?
all those locos can prototypically operate together except for the C628..
there hasnt been an operating C628 in the USA since about 1980..
and the SD45 is iffy..there are still a few floating around, but not many.
Susquehanna is still running a few in the East.
and Montana Rail Link is still running a few out west..
but thats about it..
a few leaser locos in SD45 carbodys can be found on Class-1's too.
of course, with a model railroad, there is no law that says what you run has to be prototypical! ;D
thats the beauty of it...run whatever you like!
if you WANT to be prototypical, thats different of course..
Scot
Yeah I want to model Union Pacific because that's what I see a lot of in my area (Southern California)
All of the locomotives I have are Union Pacific with the exception of Atlas Alcos, I have two.
The Alco C628 is for NdeM railroad.
That's one of the railroads in Mexico and that is why they don't mix with the rest of the locos.
I grew up in Mexico and so I want to model that railroad as well. I don't know if it's because those were the first locomotives I saw when I was a kid but I really like the Black (they say it's dark green - I don't see that) red and yellow combination. I believe a Canadian railroad uses the same scheme except they have a white stripe between the red and the black (dark green?)
They also used GE U36C's and apparently they are also called U-boats?
Do you know why that is? I mean they don't look like a submarine to me. I think it's because they're really long. Well anyway, I want to see if I can find some in N scale and then undertake the task of repainting them with the NdeM scheme. I bought some decals on Ebay for $5.00 which I think is a killer deal.
So yeah it should make sense. My layout will be part of Mexico and Part of western U.S.
By the way I am just beginning so I don't have a layout yet.
What railroads do you model?
I THINK they are called U-Boats because of the designation "U."
Gene
The "U" stands for "Universal Series"..
"U-boat" is a railfan nickname, not an official GE term.
unrelated to German submarines! ;)
(except the GE "U-boats" probably were given that particular nickname because that nickname already existed, from the WWII submarines..other than that connection, the name itself, I dont think there was any other connection between the GE locos and the German submarines, not in looks or anything like that.."U-boat" was just a nickname that caught on because the locos had the "U")
they were GE's first road diesels, starting with the U25B of 1960.
any loco with a "U" in it can be termed a "U-boat"
U25B
U30B
U36C
U33C
U50C
etc..(and several more..)
U28B, a classic U-boat. (1970's)
http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/ge/u23/lv511cf.jpg
the U-boats evolved into the Dash-7 series, which still looked mostly like U-boats externally..same short nose, same cab, but with continiously evolving internals of course.
C30-7 (1980's)
http://www.jefflubchanskycpa.com/RMGX5023-OI-JUNE15-00DIGI2.jpg
the dash-7's evolved into the dash-8's, and had a new cab and nose design:
C40-8 (late 80's)
http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib006/UP9188R.JPG
a few dash-8's were the first GE units to have widecabs..first widecabs appeared in the late 1980's.
The dash-8 evolved into the dash-9,
some early dash-9's had the "spartan cab" as seen on the Dash 8 above, but most came with the new widecabs.
Widecabs became universal during the 1990's.
C44-9W (1990's - 2,000's)
http://www.aat-net.de/chicago/002-054.jpg
The C44-9 is probably the most common and sucessful loco of the past 15 years..they are EVERYWHERE! ;D
then..the Dash-9 has evolved into the Evolution Series..GE's latest and greatest.
ES44AC (2,000's)
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=200740&nseq=13
Scot
Quote from: Inder on September 10, 2007, 01:27:06 PM
The Alco C628 is for NdeM railroad.
That's one of the railroads in Mexico and that is why they don't mix with the rest of the locos.
I grew up in Mexico and so I want to model that railroad as well. I don't know if it's because those were the first locomotives I saw when I was a kid but I really like the Black (they say it's dark green - I don't see that) red and yellow combination. I believe a Canadian railroad uses the same scheme except they have a white stripe between the red and the black (dark green?)
Lots of old U-boats and Alcos went to Mexico in the 1970's..
(and the Mexican railroads bought a lot of them new too.)
I believe the only surviving Alco C628 from an American road is an ex-Delaware & Hudson C628 in Mexico..
All four of the famous D&H Alco PA's also went to Mexico..
two have come back to the US, and two are in museums in Mexico:
http://www.mexlist.com/photo/benson/dh19.htm
QuoteWhat railroads do you model?
I model the Lehigh Valley in G scale, and Maine 2-footers in On2 scale.
my pages are here:
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/
Your future model railroad sounds cool!
combination of US and Mexican roads..I like!
Scot
The German U-boats got their name in the same way. In German, "submarine" is "Unterseeboot". Either they shortened the word to "U-boot" and we changed it to "U-boat," or we did it by ourselves. Quite likely the Germans did it themselves as they are notorious for having long nouns with short adaptations:
"flak" - "Fleugabwerkannon"
"Stuka" "Sturtzkampffleugzeug"
"Nazi" "Nationalsocialistiche Deutscherarbeiterpartei" (May only be one word.
The German word for "conductor" (required RR information ;D) translates into "the man in the blue uniform with brass buttons who collects tickets"
Gene
Wow Scottychaos I was blown away.
A tour de force!
There is no chaos in your world. It's all in order so why the name LOL.
Without a doubt my favorite part of your website is your story on the model of Lehigh Valley railroad SW1 #112
I admire your perseverance on the research. The planning before the execution was involved. I just really enjoyed the whole thing. By the end of it all I actually felt attached to old #112 and it bothered to see her broken window.
I truly admire your work and the work of your dad, the railroad crew are fantastic.
I have one question though, in the beginning, after you introduce Annie and we start seeing some bridges. In the construction page #3 we see Annie head to head with a 4-6-0 ( i can't see if there's trailing trucks) on the red bridge. What happened to that train? I don't see it again in the story.
You mention that the stonehedge railroad crew put together another engine from two bad ones but the one I'm referring to looked pristine.
Anyway well you leave me with the thought of putting a garden railroad on my mom's house. I will run the thought by her see what she thinks...
Quote from: Inder on September 11, 2007, 01:13:36 AM
Wow Scottychaos I was blown away.
A tour de force!
There is no chaos in your world. It's all in order so why the name LOL.
Without a doubt my favorite part of your website is your story on the model of Lehigh Valley railroad SW1 #112
I admire your perseverance on the research. The planning before the execution was involved. I just really enjoyed the whole thing. By the end of it all I actually felt attached to old #112 and it bothered to see her broken window.
I truly admire your work and the work of your dad, the railroad crew are fantastic.
I have one question though, in the beginning, after you introduce Annie and we start seeing some bridges. In the construction page #3 we see Annie head to head with a 4-6-0 ( i can't see if there's trailing trucks) on the red bridge. What happened to that train? I don't see it again in the story.
You mention that the stonehedge railroad crew put together another engine from two bad ones but the one I'm referring to looked pristine.
Anyway well you leave me with the thought of putting a garden railroad on my mom's house. I will run the thought by her see what she thinks...
thanks Inder! ;D
Glad you have enjoyed my little webpages!
and thanks for bringing my attention to the page for LV 112..
I see there are now a lot of dead photo links..
imageshack sucks! >:(
dont ever use them..
the photos you upload to them arent supposed to disappear, but they do..after 6-months to a year the photos just vanish.
I will try to fix that page and re-upload the photos to photobucket.
I do have my own hosting space on www.mylargescale.com, but I dont keep everything there..
Quotehave one question though, in the beginning, after you introduce Annie and we start seeing some bridges. In the construction page #3 we see Annie head to head with a 4-6-0 ( i can't see if there's trailing trucks) on the red bridge. What happened to that train? I don't see it again in the story.
(http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/Dcpa_0049.jpg)
We dont see that train again because that is MY train! ;)
and it was just visiting my Dad's railroad that one particular day! ;D
And actually..ALL the scenes of that garden railroad no longer exist! :o
the railroad was totally dismantled and moved to the other side of the driveway, and rebuilt in a much smaller version of the railroad.
because the original railroad was totally located under pine trees..
and the constant dropping of pine needles was a cleaning nightmare!
my Dad runs battery power, so the rails never needed to be cleaned, but still the pine needles were just too much..
so the railroad was dismantled and moved!
I will update my Dad's page with current photos eventually..
thanks,
Scot
N de M used a very dark green for a while - usually referred to as "pullman green" if the paint got a layer of grime on it, it looked black. CN used a similar green with yellow. SAL also used a pullman green with pale lemon yellow striping. There are lots of others, I'm sure.
The Pennsylvania used a very dark green called "Brunswick green" on its locomotives. Most of the time it looked black. I once saw a clean GG-1 in the woodside, NY yard late in the afternoon. In the afternoon sun it was obvious that the paint had a green caste to it.
Well I'll be darn.
I grew up really close to the train station in Mexico. As far back as I could remember I would walk to the train station to watch the train up close and I must have seen hundreds of Alco 628s (well I don't know that they owned hundreds) as well as the U-boats but I don't remember ever seeing a hint of green on those diesels not even from the glare. Which means I'm probably slightly color blind or something.
Well even my Atlas 628 looks flat black to me. It must be one hell of a deep green. I will take it outside in the sun light because now I'm curious whether I can see some green hues on it.
I'm not up on my N de M so it may well be possible that the ones you saw were painted black. Black is cheaper than buying colored paint.
The SAL engines that were painted pullman green with light yellow and orange trim often looked black and a lot of Pennsy fan will swear that the Brunswick Green engines were actually Brunswick Black!
Reasonable people who like green will paint their rolling stock Southern Railway green.
Everyone knows how to mix PRR Brunswick green,
the formula is legend.
Mix one gallon of black with one drop of green.
;D
Scot
Scotty - one drop of green? Too much!
I saw an actual PRR paint chip once at a model railroad meet and if you went into the sunlight the color is a very, very dark green. The color was actually available at one time from the manufacturer. I don't know why the Pennsy bothered.
Penn Central solved the problem; they covered everything in PC black except the books - those they covered in red ink.
As for NdeM I believe it is now private and called FerroMex. I wonder what colors the new line uses.
Well,
I got me some decals. I got some paint. No it's not some kind of green I got matte black. All I need is a few Alco U36C's N scale?
I'm having a hard time finding them. Maybe I can find something close?
Gene, what do you recommend?
Scottychaos,
I just now clicked on your largescale website and I will be signing up. I want to create a tiny little railroad on my mom's yard. I was looking at them today and they're a bit pricey though. But it would look fantastic and it would be a fun project. So yeah you'll be seeing me in your forum quite a bit.
Where did you have your decals made? What program did you create them in?
I am working on converting a lot of steam engines to NdeM railroad and I eventually will need some NdeM rolling stock to go with it. But the decals for the rolling stock are different and I don't think they are available.
Maybe I can print them at home if I get me a nice printer?
Inder,
Anybody who has been awhile will tell you that I'm the last person to give advice on diesels. :D
The best diesel made was a USRA light 2-8-2.
Gene
Quote from: Inder on September 15, 2007, 01:50:37 AM
All I need is a few Alco U36C's N scale?
That GE U36C.. ;)
the U36C is a U-boat, made by GE, not Alco.
I design my decals myself in photoshop, and there is a guy locally in my garden RR club who has an alps printer and can print them for me.
There are quite a few custom decal printers out there, I dont know of any specifically that deal in HO or N scale, but im sure someone could recommend a place.
I will look for you on mylargescale! ;D
Scot
Kato made an N-scale U30C.
cant find any references to an N-scale U36C, except a magazine article about kitbashing one!
which implies that specific model has never been specifically available in N-scale.
The U30C should be very close though.
and in N-scale, no one could probably tell the difference! ;)
Scot
Rail Graphics does a lot of custom work and the prices aren't bad.
Gene
The best diesel made was a USRA light 2-8-2.
Gene
Gene;
Hey-Where can get one?!! Do you think Trainworld will stock it? If they don't, maybe Uncle Phillie will some day; huh?... Huh?... Huh??
Rich
The other diehard steamer!
I see a Kato N-scale U30C on ebay for pretty cheap. It says it runs.
Guys please don't outbid me LOL just kidding.
Yeah well I'm buying that one and repainting it for my NdeM railroad. It's a young railroad, it Just started. It has two Atlas C628's and hopefully this U30c if I can get it.
I did some research. The U30C and the U36C are both 67 feet in lenght.
aside for an additional 600HP I think visually the only thing it has is larger radiator vents. I had some images side to side in google but I started doing other things before I found any real differences.
So this will be our secret you guys. I will convert all the U30C's to NdeM as U36C's and no one will know.
Let me know if you come across any. They seem kind of hard to find.
Inder - most of the old timers who prefer steam (like me) will tell you not to worry about the kind of diesel - they all look alike.
Quote from: Woody Elmore on September 16, 2007, 10:56:04 AM
Inder - most of the old timers who prefer steam (like me) will tell you not to worry about the kind of diesel - they all look alike.
yeah, that one always made sense to me.. they sure do all look alike! ;)
its hard to tell a:
(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_el7134.jpg)
from a:
(http://www.railpace.com/photogallery/old/elport.jpg)
I cant see any differences! ;) :o
must be because they are both EMD's..and they have the same paintscheme..
Scot
The yellow paint on the nose of the second one is brighter than the yellow of the first one.
Gene
The second one has railings. The first has a few handholds.
I got a feeling they're the same one.
You just did some Photoshop trick to them.
Personally I like the newer more square looking diesels that spun out of the 60's.
The earlier diesels with their streamlined look I could care less for.
Ironically, they tend to look more modern because they're more aerodynamic.
so when the auto industry went from boxy designs to round ones the locomotive industry sort of went backwards - only in the freight locomotive department. Anyway
Quote from: scottychaos on September 16, 2007, 12:23:49 PM
Quote from: Woody Elmore on September 16, 2007, 10:56:04 AM
Inder - most of the old timers who prefer steam (like me) will tell you not to worry about the kind of diesel - they all look alike.
yeah, that one always made sense to me.. they sure do all look alike! ;)
its hard to tell a:
(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_el7134.jpg)
from a:
(http://www.railpace.com/photogallery/old/elport.jpg)
I cant see any differences! ;) :o
must be because they are both EMD's..and they have the same paintscheme..
Scot
Scot, Why did you post the same picture twice? ;)
Paul,
I like the logo on your signature. Is that a small railroad and that's why I've never heard it or is it a railroad you created?
I really dig the logo.
Anyone here ever create your own railroad complete with logo?