I think most ON30 modellers will agree with me when I say that the 2-6-0 is the most kitbashed/modified/detailed ON30 steam loco around.
Its a great loco as is and without DCC and not as detailed or complex as other Bachmann/Spectrum ON30 steam locos, not to mention much cheaper, it must have been a good seller for Bachmann, and has had a long production run with a recent revised version.
Anyway I have had an idea which I think would be a winner for Bachmann with very little (if any) financial investment up front.
My idea is that a "kit" version of the 2-6-0 be marketed, RTR chassis but the rest unassembled and preferably undecorated. For instance domes, running boards, bells, whistle and cab would not be assembled to the base boiler/smokebox/firebox moulding.
Besides saving the hassle for modelllers of stripping these parts off, the cost savings to Bachmann of not having X number of people sticking on the domes etc. would be considerable.
And I believe it would sell very well. I for one would buy several.
If any employee of Bachmann reads this I would be very interested in your thoughts on this, as well as the loyal ON30 customer base that frequent this section of the forum.
I wish more after market companies would do this.Remember Xedon domes and stacks?,they were made for the mogul.They made a nice flanged dome that fit the hole in the boiler after you removed the factory domes and the stacks were beautiful.Hey BVM and others are you listening?
Royce ;D
I also agree with this idea. The 2-6-0 was the entry level locomotive for most of us in On30 and it begs to be modified.
The low price point and plastic body really encourage the practice of kitbashing. I have a pair of 2-6-0s that have more money tied up in the PSC, Back Shop and Wiseman brass and white metal detail parts than the cost of the locomotive itself.
Then there are the aftermarket manufacturers like Backwoods Miniatures, who already offers a Camelback conversion kit for the 2-6-0.
Then there is the possibility of mixing tenders, like a whaleback from Wiseman or Backwoods.
I would like to see the locomotive come decoder ready with a plug for those of use who want DCC and sound but ready to go for those who don't.
There is no market for locomotive kits.
It takes labor to package all the parts.
We are in the waning days of On30 fever so I doubt there will be a Mogul with DCC.
Harold
You may be correct about the lack of interest in kit locomotives but that would include any scale or gauge it would seem.
This was happening long before On30 came upon the scene as we know it today.
Bachmann came out with an idea and ran with it. The problem is that nobody else did. It's a one trick pony sadly as other manufacturers tried and failed with this gauge. That leaves Bachmann almost alone in the area and only after market suppliers (quality to be sure) are there to help support them.
So what went wrong that makes you think that On30 is in decline? I tend to agree but I'm stuck for an answer. Cost? Probably, but you have to pay for the quality that you are requesting don't you? At what point did On30 go from a novelty to becoming mainstream and then losing it's way? Or has it?
I have noticed that HOn3 has become a new player in the game but is it because of cost or space or what? I have no answers as i have said so I'd like to know where and why this is happening.
Maybe just the natural order of things but any and all thought from anyone would be appreciated.
Chatham
Narrow gauge runs in bursts.
I remember the Sn3 fever of the mid-1980's going to the Scranton National Narrow Gauge Convention, Sn3 was the rage.
Everything has a run, On30 went longer than most.
There was an On30 burst in the mid-1970's with the Gordon North articles but waned due to lack of commercial interest.
Harold
Hi Guys,
I don't think On30, (particularly Bachmann) is on the decline. You should remember it is not that long ago that the Bach-man assured us that Bachmann wasn't walking away from On30, on this forum. The amount that is produced, and will be produced, is bound to be linked to the current economic climate, and to how much we purchase, so get your wallets open, instead of complaining and scaremongering, and you might get some more new models at a quicker pace.
RGS Goose.
Enjoy, as On30 is a great modelling scale.
I don't think anyone was complaining or scaremongering in anyway. I saw a question about the 2-6-0 as more of a request and a query and not a complaint.
I saw a few opinions which may be correct or maybe not. That's all well and good correct?
Another point I might bring up is if Bachmann is committed to keeping On30 alive and well and I do believe that is the case then where is the product that we can purchase? My LHS has one piece of On30 and that's one of the original Climax locos and it's been there for years without selling. There's a good reason for that too but I won't mention it here.
But check all the usual suspects (Places to purchase Bachmann On30) online and what do you find? Nothing at all really other than one of two new releases that can be pre ordered and a few other locos and very few pieces of rolling stock.
I'm not afraid to spend my money and I would gladly do so but where can I find a decent selection. I do not mean that I need it painted and lettered and RTR either as my enjoyment is in the modification and the building of things, not in the operation. Everyone is different so that's OK and not a complaint about those who do operate and need sound and DCC.
My wish is that there is a container full of Bachmann On30 locos and rolling stock on the way and that it will be here in time for the holidays.
Chatham
My observation is coming off being away from the hobby for about three years.
Three years ago On30 was slowing down, and my opinion was greeted with the usual hair on fire outrage.
Having had a website an On30 website since 2004 there has been a major deflation of the bubble.
Only having one person come on and complain about scaremongering shows that there is a decline ;D
On30 is great but it has plateaued everyone who is interested has arrived and many have left.
Narrow gauge is a very narrow niche.
Harold
Harold,
Your many contributions to the On30 sector of the hobby are almost the stuff of legend. I thank you for your input as well as your sharing of information so freely.
I did not realize that you had been out of it for that long as I myself had to leave as well for almost that time due to medical reasons. I'm now just getting my feet back into the water and I'm surprised at some of the things that have changed.
What if anything, would re kindle your interest in On30 or is it that you have lost interest in NG itself? No need to answer as I am only curious and it's none of my business anyway.
The cost is a drawback for me now so I have to be very selective as to where and how I spend my money. But I am willing to spend it if it's something I want. I seem to be looking for a 2-6-2 in a 4-8-8-4 world however. :-)
I first started out in On30 because of the small size of the equipment and now it seems that everyone wants bigger. But I'll stay in it as long as my eye sight holds out and hope for the best.
Chatham
Hello,
I observe the On30 market since 2001 when I bought my first Porter. I have seen and bought many new items in On30 from Bachmann and other factories. It's true, the Ready To Run (RTR) market for locos and rolling stock is very small: Bachmann, Accucraft, Broadway Limited, San Juan Car Co and brass models from PSC, MMI and others.
But there are many kits from Backwoods Miniatures, B.T.S, Banta, Mount Blue Model Co and many other factories. You can see it in the "Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette", in the "On30 Annual" and in the internet how wide the range of products and factories is. Since 1998, when the first Bachmann On30 train appeared, there are more and more providers.
Narrow Gauge was also from the real prototypes never a big market if you compare the miles and locos built in NG with the miles and locos built in Standard Gauge all in the USA. The most NG companies had only a small equipment; apart from some exceptions (in Colorado, in Maine and at some bigger logging companies etc.). There were mostly no large fleets. What wonder that it's the same in the model railway scene?
I mean On30 grows slowly but it's growing!!!!
Railexpert ;)
I bought a Christmas Wonderland set when they first came out, greatest thing since slice bread.
They are the same manufacturers as three years ago, the infamous "Conspiracy" on Yahoo is the same size, and it is hard to find a plain boxcar out there. Please DON'T hunt them down and post where they can be found.
I like On30 but there is always a plateau. There has been nothing new to generate an upswing. Gone are the halcyon days.
Harold
Hi Harold,
You can expect no fireworks on new articles and new manufacturers every year. You may be disappointed, but a new locomotive and a couple of new cars each year are enough for me.
There also no whining about too little new models will help. For the On30 niche, there are enough manufacturers and models. Alone Bachmann has made 17 types of powered railway vehicles since 1998: 2 porters, 3 geared locos, 2 articulated locos, a 2-4-4, a 4-4-0, a 2-6-0, a 4-6-0, a 2-8-0, a gas loco, a railbus, a railcar, a tram and new a diesel loco. If you count the inside and the outside frames too, there are even still more types.
It's enough for mining, logging and a little freelanced NG-mainline in Colorado. Narrow gauge in On30 is great locomotives ride on a small space. I'm glad that there is this niche.
I am happy to collect and built in On30.
Railexpert :D
If you look at the variety of steam locos in On30 and compare it with HO and N I think it's doing fine. Someone modelling a 1930s RR in ON30 could establish a reasonable roster just from Bachmann alone and that's just impossible in any of the standard gauge scales. Pre-transition era US modellers seem very badly done by compared with the situation in the UK where Bachmann and Hornby (and others) offer a lot of locos. Sure, many classes of loco are missing but it's still much better than in the US. For example, this is what Bachmann currently offer in UK outline steam era equipment: http://www.bachmann.co.uk/prod1.php?prod_selected=branchline&prod=3&orderby=1and that includes no less than five(!) new steam locos produced this year.
My point is that US narrow gauge is almost exclusively steam era whereas US modelling in standard gauge seems heavily biased towards transition era and later, with diesels far better represented than steam locos. In the UK, by comparison, the steam era still heavily dominates model railways. Maybe this is because the UK got rid of mainline steam later than in the US (mid 1960s) or the frequent use of steam on mainline tours and the number of preserved railways in the UK means that 'steam' has never really gone away, but whatever the reason I look at US model railways and am sad that so much of your railroad history is under represented, regardless of gauge modelled.
This thread seems to have turned into a future of On30 discussion rather than the original suggestion of a kit version of the 2-6-0.
I agree that On30 has plateaued. Bachmann will I think continue to support On30, but the range of different items available at any one time is likely to be less than it used to be. It is not the case that other manufacturers have entirely abandoned ready to run On30 - in Australia a new ready to run On30 loco has been announced by a company based in Taiwan. As this is the Bachmann board I will not give any details here.
In my view Bachmann should continue to make available one or more entry level and easily modifiable locmotive, both to attract newcomers to the scale and to provide an item for the many kit bashers in the scale. The 2-6-0 has fulfilled this role. Given it has been out for a long time a replacement. or a significantly modified version, could be considered. This would still fulfill the functions of the 2-6-0 as an entry level loco, and also be attractive to those who already have the earlier version. I agree though that a kit version could probably not be produced cheaper than the ready-to-run version.
Hamish
My comment was about the present and not the future.
Who knows about the future and what might ignite On30 fever again?
I was always disappointed that Bachmann didn't do this to the Bachmann Mogul:
(http://www.55n3.org/bachmann_locomotives/image/mogul_2-8-0.jpg)
(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/virtual/image/bowser_frame_graft.jpg)
I wouldn't take much tooling changes.
If they would have built the small Forney:
(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/virtual/image/forney.jpg)
That is the present Forney against a 1/37 plan of the small Forney making HO track two foot. In 1/48" a Forney that size would get around an 18" radius hauling cars.
So many "what-ifs" and kits are still dead :o
Harold
If you think On30 is dead or dieing I suggest you visit the On30 forum on Railroad line forums.I think you will be surprized at just how active this scale really is. ;D
Quote from: Catt on October 30, 2013, 06:48:12 AM
If you think On30 is dead or dieing I suggest you visit the On30 forum on Railroad line forums.I think you will be surprized at just how active this scale really is. ;D
Why does everyone use the terms "dead" and "dying"?
Presently it is plateaued from a very high bubble.
Harold
Harold,I think it is due to the economy and not lack of intrest in O narrow gauge. :o
Royce Wilson :D
That we've lost a number of posts referencing a new rtr loco being released in ON30 is a little weird in the context of a discussion on the health and future of ON30.
Please refrain from posting links to other manufacturers website advertising - thank you. This thread started out with a product suggestion which is fine. A lengthy discussion of opinions about whether On30 is going to survive into the future seems to have taken over. This is fine but be assured that it will be monitored ;)
From what I recall no one had posted a link. Someone said a new loco was being made in Taiwan. I Googled, found out what it was and said (as it's a frequently requested loco) that lots of people would be very happy. Someone then posted a picture of it.
At no point, when I last saw the posts, had anyone even mentioned the manufacturer's name, let alone posted a link to them.
So, to reiterate, how can we discuss the future of ON30 without referring to other manufacturers?
Skarloey Railway:
A link to the Australian model company, and their product, including pricing was posted, then (properly) deleted by Bachmann's website administrator. You probably missed it as it didn't last very long.
And before anyone starts complaining about censorship, I would point out that you are all free to start your own website and post links to any manufacturer you want. Bachmann Trains, our host here, has always made it clear that they do not want links or information concerning competitors posted on their boards. That works for me!
Happy (Respectful) RRing,
Jerry
I think I was the first to mention the new loco - and my post is still there. I deliberately refrained from mentioning the maker or the prototype as the rules for this forum specifically forbid posting other makers product announcements, and I didn't want to break them. Bachmann own the site and Bachmann set the rules. The point was that On30 is still getting some rtr support from makers other than Bachmann.
Hamish
Jumping back in once more.
I must have been out sick that day and missed the removed posts and that's probably all for the best. I think the original poster who started this (Kernow) was more or less correct and asked a fair question and made some very good points.
Hamish also was right on the mark as well with his first post and Harold gave us something to think about.
The only constants in the On30 field is the 2-6-0 which hasn't changed in all these years and is still the best bang for the buck to start out with . The Porters are something else again. They have become ...well I don't quite know what they have become but I know I can't afford them any longer. I say that because I cannot for the life on me find any without sound which is what places them out of my reach pricewise. I did locate one out in one of our western states that was ordered with sound but what came in was DCC only and so I jumped on that like a sailor on shore leave!
What I feel we do need is another entry level loco to rekindle the fire and bring more people back to, or newly into the On30 hobby, niche though it may be.
The 2-6-0 was a stroke of educated luck and maybe, just maybe, lightning will strike the same place twice?
I'm finished and I now return you to your original programming. Thanks for the input everyone.
Chatham
Quote from: Skarloey Railway on October 30, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
From what I recall no one had posted a link. Someone said a new loco was being made in Taiwan. I Googled, found out what it was and said (as it's a frequently requested loco) that lots of people would be very happy. Someone then posted a picture of it.
At no point, when I last saw the posts, had anyone even mentioned the manufacturer's name, let alone posted a link to them.
So, to reiterate, how can we discuss the future of ON30 without referring to other manufacturers?
Actually a discussion of the future of On30 might be better served on a "Non-manufacturer" type of forum. There is obviously a bias on this forum on the part of the forum administrators - with good reason - it's the Bachmann forum!
The purpose of the online forums is first and foremost for the discussion of BACHMANN products - not for discussion of the supposition that one of Bachmann's product lines is doomed to expire. A thread that goes down a road like this is destined to shed a negative light in one way or another on our product line and that is unacceptable. Sorry if this offends anyone but the discussion would be better served on a public forum where the folks who run the forum have no vested interest.