just started back, didnt take long to run out of power with org. issue controller. any help with an up grade ???
Quote from: tammi-1949 on November 05, 2013, 09:31:07 PM
just started back, didnt take long to run out of power with org. issue controller. any help with an up grade ???
How about giving us some details. DC DCC? How many locos?
What do you mean, run out of power?
How big is the layout?
To large a grade and the drivers slip?
We are not mind readers.
We will assume Bachmann product.
Rich
dc 2 locos 2 dummies 20 ft in oval 5 slips with the dummies lighted one rail car w/spot light bumper stops lighted all other power on seperate voltage and yes bach starter pac love your humor lol
and no not a grade slip
You really have to give more details. Exactly what is happening or not happening?
Run out of power is not very informative.
Locos moving too slowly or stop moving?
Power pack turned all the way up?
Rich
yes locomotives are moving slower and slower i presume my power pack can not keep up and dont know what to upgrade to
tammie-
It's certainly possible that your power pack is dying; manufacturers don't put their highest quality equipment in their train sets. However, the loads you are describing shouldn't be challenging even a train set pack. It's also possible that you have dirty rails and/or wheels. The crud which builds up on the track and wheels isn't very conductive so it could be adding a lot of resistance to your power circuit and that is sapping energy. I would say this is most likely to be a problem with brass rails or steel rails. It will help us to know what kind of track you have. Let me ask you a few questions.
First, does your track have integrated roadbed or just rails and ties? If you do not have integrated roadbed, is it permanently set up or do you have to set it up and take it down each time you run trains? (Repeated assembly/disassembly makes it hard to maintain good electrical conductivity.) If you are setting up and taking down, do you run your trains on an elevated surface or on the floor? (Floor railroads tend to get dirty rails and wheels faster as well as making it easy for dirt and fibers to get into the works and bind things up.) If you have Bachmann track with integrated roadbed, is the roadbed black or grey? (Black roadbed means steel alloy track; grey roadbed means so-called nickel/silver rails.)
Do you have more than one wire to your track? A 20' oval with steel rail, set-up/take-down history, dirty brass track or even NS, which isn't a great conductor, can make trains operate poorly as they get farther from the connection point.
Give us some further information and we should e able to help, hopefully without the purchase of a new power pack.
-- D
ez lock permanent elevated no road bed black bass steel if i take off lights or dummies, locos immed. speed up if add second power pack locos speed up and everything is brighter and faster thanx gone to work, be back :)
Tammi,
Sounds like you either have a faulty power pack or they are not powerful enough to handle the load.
I have read on this forum others that like the MRC or Athearn power supplies. I am full DCC so I really can not suggest one or the other or any others.
I will say it would be advisable to step up to a better one than the train set one. I suggest going to the LHS and find out what they carry or can get for you. Other than that try an online auction.
Jerry
The MRC Tech 2 is a rock-solid power pack for DC operation, and it is not very expensive.
mrc tech 2 thanx alot
tammi-
DO NOT under any circumstances connect two power packs at
the same time. Very bad things can happen.
-- D
oook
whatever you choose, look at its power rating before you buy it. this is often expressed as volt amps or va. the higher the va the more power it will put out. for example, my mrc tech 4 220 puts out 17 va.
Access to a multimeter could confirm some of the variables. As you get deeper into the hobby, You may want to invest in a multimeter eventually. A useful tool, that doubles as a learning device :D Even a very cheap analog one is useful. If you like using it, and find it as indispensable as most do, you can always upgrade to one with higher accuracy, and better options.
I know its not a giant layout, but have you tried adding an extra power feed opposite the existing one? This really seems to help when pulling lighted passenger cars. Consider moving all supplemental lighting, and switch power, to your extra power pack too. If its near its power limits, every fraction of an amp counts. If you know you'll need more power eventually, move straight to a high performance unit, and don't skimp. Watch for nice clean power, it will be money well spent. Notice you don't hear "I bought to big" or "mines too high in quality" very often when it comes to power.
have all lighting on seperate power pack it is ok than to run 2 power packs for track?
mrc tech2 1400, 1500, even seen 2800?
i have volt meter fluke for high end stuff
Quote from: tammi-1949 on November 08, 2013, 02:41:20 PM
it is ok than to run 2 power packs for track?
tammi-
No, not at the same time. It is possible to connect several packs to the same track in order to run multiple trains simultaneously but only one power pack at a time is ever in actual contact with the rails. Doing this with two packs would require a DPDT switch which disconnects one pack as the other is connected. For more than two cabs, rotary switches are used which also guarantee that only one of the packs is ever connected to a given section of track (aka block) at a time.
-- D
Relays could also be configured to do the block electrical switching automatically. But unless you have real use for a blocked layout, it would be easier to go with a larger power supply.
Understand when I mention additional power feed I'm talking additional bus wire, not power pacs. If you are not familiar with "layout bus wiring" you now have some mild research reading to do. Check star-bus wiring too.
Get a volt and amp reading with everything on the track and running. The amps draw is the key to seeing if you need a larger power supply, but voltage drop is significant too. Amps are read by routing one feed wire through the meter (one wire to one lead "in", one lead out to the track.
got it getting on it
T49, all of those power supplies you mentioned have enough "juice" to run 2 trains at once on the same track that the power pack is hooked up to. They are also, all power packs with good reputations. However, what will eventually happen, is the locos will catch up to each other when running 2 locos on the same track, off the same power pack.
So, as my pals have suggested here, it would be worth it to you to do some research on "block wiring" and "common rail" wiring, this way you can utilize 2 power sources to run trains separately at 2 different locations, using more than 1 pack to do so. This information is very easy to find, using GOOGLE, as your friend.
PS-I luv your choice of multi meter! :)
thanx again on it p.s. 13.23 va
tammi-
Something else to consider is DCC. Yes, it's more expensive for a power supply and you need decoders in every loco, but it's much simpler to wire and, especially, operate. On small, block-wired layouts especially, you can be a switch flipping demon as your trains move from one short block to the next. DCC will avoid that. The idea of DCC may be intimidating but just remember, most of us are just average and if we can handle DCC, so can you.
-- D
one clarification needs to be made.
bus wiring is used for dcc, not dc.
with dc block control, you'd have various sections of track isolated from each other, each section is controlled by a separate switch which connects is to one or more controllers. only one controller is ever used on a particular section of track at any given time, the switches let you select which controller is connected to which track.
all dc layout which have more than one locomotive should use block control, whether or not you only have one controller.
after all, you do want to park that second locomotive somewhere while the first one runs, and vice versa.
atlas makes a device called a selector, which will allow you to connect 4 different track sections (blocks) to either of two controllers. it can also be used with a single controller as well, with the ability to add a second controller when you get one by simply hooking the controller to the b terminal of the selector, and the common return of the track.
Quote from: jward on November 09, 2013, 10:34:31 AM
one clarification needs to be made.
bus wiring is used for dcc, not dc.
I have to disagree with this clarification. I even double checked myself by looking it up.
Bus wiring is the use of heavy wire, plate, bar stock, etc., to deliver heavy current to smaller feeder wiring, this applies to ac and dc both.
Serial Bus is a communication protocol used in communication between electrical devices. (includes the USB on your computer [universal serial bus])
if all of your track wiring is routed through the block switches, where would you use bus wiring? each block has its own feeder.
have you ever used block control on a layout?
Quote from: jward on November 09, 2013, 12:21:30 PM
if all of your track wiring is routed through the block switches, where would you use bus wiring? each block has its own feeder.
have you ever used block control on a layout?
Yes, and anti collision relays for a common main line to two loops too. :-*
Normally you are spot on, I saw what I felt was a mistake, and am not trying to rub your nose in it, just clarifying ???. I did not assume he was going the block route. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but maybe you are trying to convey that the term bus wiring is not normally used referring to a dc block wiring situation? I agree. But the bus, even on a block layout, would be a common feed, before the diverging feeds going to each individual block switch or section. The term "bus" means "all" in latin, greek, or something.
Corrections welcome.
Quote from: tammi-1949 on November 08, 2013, 05:27:18 PM
thanx again on it p.s. 13.23 va
13.23dcv(volts) on the track, at the slow point with everything on and running under load near the volt reading spot? Not too bad. (take readings no load and you can figure the "voltage drop", another useful electrical reading)
If that's an amp reading, something is wrong, or you have huge draw, or short. Ive seen tinsel scraps do similar too.
If they are faster when close to the feed, and slowest further away, try to add feeder wires to the other side too. Its the cheapest of all options presented, and may fit the bill. Also use the Fluke, on Ohms, to check for resistance in your rails, and circuits leading to them(lower is better). If we seem over your head, "windy", or too simple, a little hint as to the extent of your electrical knowledge, and may shorten some responses by folk too. I say this because you hold the tool of a pro, a Fluke. A meter tutorial if you need one- http://youtu.be/bF3OyQ3HwfU
You have cleaned the track, lubed the gears, checked brushes, and checked the axles for hairs etc. right?
ohms i understand well ,along with draw and current got tech II 1400 ON WAY
thanx on it and waiting on new power pack
13.23 va or volt amps. a volt amp is similar to a watt, it is voltage times current. at 12v the controller will be good for a little more than one amp. even with to-day's low current draw motors, that's a bit on the low side. to put it in perspective, some of the older locomotives you see at train shows will pull close to an amp each. the current locomotives usually pull less than 1/3 that. add in power for accessories such as lighting or switch motors and it's easy to overload a small controller.
Quote from: tammi-1949 on November 12, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
ohms i understand well ,along with draw and current got tech II 1400 ON WAY
thanx on it and waiting on new power pack
Let us know how this works out for you!
Good for you T49. The T2 1400 is a good piece of equipment with a good reputation :)
PS-When the unit arrives, use your Fluke meter to test the values of the DC and AC outputs (screws) to make sure everything is up to snuff before you go ahead and set it up.
thanx guys cleaned track really well, made a big diffrence. have 6 spurs each with dummy for effect w/light on. bought a bunch of stuff on ebay and cut wires on motors to make dummies, effect is great.
I find running my trains as often as possible even for a short length of time keeps the track cleaner in a "dust free" manner. While longer sessions yield more electrical gunk, the contact areas stay cleaner of dust which eventually covers the rail a bit needing heavier cleaning sooner. In a mildly dusty house, a minimum of 10 "laps" every three days on "old black roadbed-track" is what kept mine running smooth.
one other thing makes a huge difference in keeping your track clean. don't allow people too smoke around the track. the vapour tends to condense on the rails, making a non conductive crud. not sure if this has anything to do with the magnetic fields around the rails attracting the smoke particles.
new tech II 1400 in, works well have 3 other small power packs hooked for 3 grids of lighting effect is great and am very happy. thanx again for help ;D ;D
tammi-
It sounds like you are up and running. That's good to hear. Please
post a photo so we can see your handy work.
-- D
(for best results please read in your best "Dr. Evil" voice)
Yes! We want a reward of.....one hundred million pictures. :D
But honestly, we like pictures.
You cant upload photos to here direct from your computer.
Start a free photobucket account, upload to PB, and then copy/paste the IMG code into your post.
Heres a link http://s1322.photobucket.com/
Have Fun!
ooookk start working on that lol
(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0037_zpsad0ba099.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0037_zpsad0ba099.jpg.html)
(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0036_zps2f0e8f11.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0036_zps2f0e8f11.jpg.html)
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(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0028_zps51eb696f.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0028_zps51eb696f.jpg.html)
(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0027_zps77a8e036.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0027_zps77a8e036.jpg.html)
Looks like fun and a lot of work put into it!
What are the dimensions?
How's the T2 1400 working?
4 x 8 raised w/ 5 spurs 4 down into city one thru wall runs 2 locos and 5 dummies w/lights at stops and spot light car very well
tammi-
You are a real go-getter. There's a huge amount of work in your layout
and a lot of time. And action. All I can say is, "WOW!"
-- D
Now that's utilizing every inch of space. Nice work of art.
Is that 22 cal.long shells in the hopper in the last pic?
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on November 27, 2013, 01:41:20 AM
Now that's utilizing every inch of space. Nice work of art.
Is that 22 cal.long shells in the hopper in the last pic?
Jerry
Battleship shells! What a fun looking layout! :D
That's not one hundred million pictures ::),.. MORE! ;D ...;) when your ready :-*
yes turned my coal dump and cars into ammo cars and dump. the budwieser factory is really ann arsenal lol. never can tell! my other hobbies are making life size cannons
thanx wanted to make a city as well glad yall like it its nowhere as realistic as yalls just fun did ya notice the chiken ranch and outside customers?
(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/ICANNON_zps0b0b6753.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/ICANNON_zps0b0b6753.jpg.html)
thats why my first car had cannons and horses
Ba-Booom!!
tammi,
if I may give a little advice regarding layout photos, try to use natural room lighting instead of flash if possible. I light my layout with clip lamps from home depot, mounted on the backdrop, with 100 watt daylight bulbs. the clip lamps are moveable to wherever I need them. the photo below shows how photos turn out when well lit without the flash, even with an inexpensive camera.
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/emdloco/IMG_6434.jpg) (http://s873.photobucket.com/user/emdloco/media/IMG_6434.jpg.html)
Quote from: tammi-1949 on November 27, 2013, 04:45:52 PM
just fun
did ya notice the chiken ranch and outside customers?
Fun. Don't forget that! :D
Nope, cant see it....we want "close ups"....we want "close ups"... ;D
(I see the car V'ed on the telephone pole though..ouch! :o)
veryyyyy nice on more pics thanx for info
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(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0010_zps2e356c2b.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0010_zps2e356c2b.jpg.html)
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(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0048_zpsdc52f935.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0048_zpsdc52f935.jpg.html)
(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0049_zpsbb82ee9a.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0049_zpsbb82ee9a.jpg.html)
sorry some blurry :(
looks like you've got a lot of vintage equipment there. I had many of those freight cars when I was a teen.
got some of wood and brass
(http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy212/tammi-1949/IMG_0050_zps4753061c.jpg) (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/tammi-1949/media/IMG_0050_zps4753061c.jpg.html)
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