Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 05:49:38 PM



Title: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 05:49:38 PM
Hi y'all. I have found an "unlettered" Bachmann locomotive and tender on ebay. Is this something to stay away from or is it considered "okay" to use? Thanks for your suggestions.  :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 05:53:25 PM
You gave us hardly any info.
Scale?
Type of loco, steam or diesel?
Any other details that might give us a clue?
What details by the seller?
DC or DCC?
Asking price?
I think you get the idea now.
I know you don't want the chance someone here would bid above you.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: rogertra on January 07, 2014, 05:56:52 PM
"Undecorated" or "undec" locos used to be quite common, all manufacturers used to make them but sadly that trend is dying away.

So there's nothing wrong with an "undec" loco.  Practically every locomotive I have ever purchased, steam or diesel, has been an "undec".


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 06:08:25 PM
Hi. Sorry for not giving more info. It's an unlettered Bachmann HO Prairie 2-6-2 w/ Tender w/ smoke. Supposedly not used but pre owned. That's all I know.


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 06:19:31 PM
Those are the standard line. No idea if the loco has the old pancake motor or newer can motor.

A diagram of one with the can motor is in the Parts page.

Some try to convert to DCC. The tender wheels are plastic. No pickups. The loco drivers pick up power.

What price?
Bachmann retail price is $125.00. No idea what the going price is on line.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 06:40:55 PM
Rich, I assume one type of motor is "better" or preferred over the other (pancake/can)? If plastic wheels are not as good as metal, can they be replaced or is this a big expense/hassle? The opening bid price is $20.00 with $10.00 shpg. Here's the link- http://www.ebay.com/itm/171208282893?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 07:09:17 PM
Yes the wheels can be replaced with metal wheels if you want to add pickups. If all you want is DC operation, you should be good with the basic loco.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: Pacific Northern on January 07, 2014, 07:45:35 PM
The picture on the e-bay ad shows very old stock.

Quite frankly I am not sure if that engine is one of the locomotives with the old pancake motor or not.

The newer Bachmann engines come in a Blue Box with the cellophane window.

You need to see the parts sheet that comes with each locomotive to determine just how old the item is if it is not in a blue box.


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 08:13:03 PM
The picture on the e-bay ad shows very old stock.

Quite frankly I am not sure if that engine is one of the locomotives with the old pancake motor or not.

The newer Bachmann engines come in a Blue Box with the cellophane window.

You need to see the parts sheet that comes with each locomotive to determine just how old the item is if it is not in a blue box.

Ask the seller for any other details.

I just looked at the diagram of 0-6-0 with can motor and pancake motor and not sure I would be able to tell the difference with the shell in place. I suspect the 2-6-2 might be based on the 0-6-0.

One diagram I found shows a 2-6-2 with smoke that has a pancake motor. It is labelled, 2-6-2 Prairie 1990 at HO Seeker.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: rogertra on January 07, 2014, 08:15:49 PM
The picture on the e-bay ad shows very old stock.

Quite frankly I am not sure if that engine is one of the locomotives with the old pancake motor or not.

The newer Bachmann engines come in a Blue Box with the cellophane window.

You need to see the parts sheet that comes with each locomotive to determine just how old the item is if it is not in a blue box.

Ask the seller for any other details.

I just looked at the diagram of 0-6-0 with can motor and pancake motor and not sure I would be able to tell the difference with the shell in place. I suspect the 2-6-2 might be based on the 0-6-0.

One diagram I found shows a 2-6-2 with smoke that has a pancake motor. It is labelled, 2-6-2 Prairie 1990 at HO Seeker.

Rich

Both the 0-6-0 and the older (non DCC Sound) 2-6-0 and the 2-6-2 are just the 0-6-0 chassis with pilot and trailing wheels added.  No known prototype.  Just a quickie Bachmann adaptation of the 0-6-0 chassis for the toy train market.


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 08:21:54 PM
Here is the 1990 version.

http://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionbachmann/bachmann262prairiediagram1990.jpg

Compare to the present version.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/51501_HO_Prairie_2-6-2.pdf

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 08:49:58 PM
Pacific Northern, thank you for your helpful information. In your opinion, is a pancake motor not as good as a can motor? If a train is very old, can I still get parts? Thank you. :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 08:59:42 PM
Roger T, thank you for your information. I see you said no DCC sound. Do I have to use DCC in order to have sound? Thanks.  :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 09:02:40 PM
Rich, thanks for the diagrams and info! Do you think it is best to stick with the newer can motors or do the pancakes work as well? If it has a pancake and the motor goes out, I'm assuming I cannot put in a can one because of fit and other issues??  :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 09:06:49 PM
Pacific Northern, thank you for your helpful information. In your opinion, is a pancake motor not as good as a can motor? If a train is very old, can I still get parts? Thank you. :)

Parts.

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66_68_212

You need metal wheels and pick-ups on the tender.
Six wires between the tender and loco.
Speaker hole in the tender frame.
Hard-wire the loco and tender.
Not for new DCC users.
Figure about $100 for speaker and decoder plus a lot of work.

You would be better off buying a Bachmann sound value 2-6-0 for about $120.00.

Forget the ebay 2-6-2.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 09:08:43 PM
Rich, thanks for the diagrams and info! Do you think it is best to stick with the newer can motors or do the pancakes work as well? If it has a pancake and the motor goes out, I'm assuming I cannot put in a can one because of fit and other issues??  :)

Return it to Bachmann with a small fee for the newest version. The new ones are still not DCC ready.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 09:16:29 PM
Micro Mark has the sound value Alco 2-6-0 for $124. Ready to run on DC or DCC.

The Favourite Spot is an excellent ebay seller and usually prices right around what Micro Mark has. There are a couple other online sellers that have competitive prices.

Different places will have different road names on rhe loco.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 09:18:19 PM
Rich, THANKS so much for all the info!! Again, hate to show my ignorance, but is the Bachmann sound value 2-6-0 for about $120.00 something that works on the general layout, thus with any train, or is it something I would add to a single train so it, alone, would have sound?  :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 09:22:35 PM
Micro Mark has the sound value Alco 2-6-0 for $124. Ready to run on DC or DCC.

The Favourite Spot is an excellent ebay seller and usually prices right around what Micro Mark has. There are a couple other online sellers that have competitive prices.

Different places will have different road names on rhe loco.

I have a fair amount of DCC experience and would not bother with something like this. Sorry to sound negative.
I did the Plymouth 0-6-0 switcher with pancake motor and it worked to some degree on DCC but by far, not the best. Intermittent pick-up was the issue. That was easy compared to the 0-6-0 that you want. I just did it to prove the can motor would work on DCC. Forget sound.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 09:26:27 PM
Rich, THANKS so much for all the info!! Again, hate to show my ignorance, but is the Bachmann sound value 2-6-0 for about $120.00 something that works on the general layout, thus with any train, or is it something I would add to a single train so it, alone, would have sound?  :)


Bachmann with DCC On Board or DCC with sound on board run on DC or DCC.

Please click on the Online store link and go look at the HO Alco 2-6-0 for HO. All the info is there.

Also, in the Parts link is all the Sound Value DCC info. You can download the documents.
Please, for you sake, look at those links. It is not difficult.

Rich


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: jward on January 07, 2014, 09:31:31 PM
to answer your questions:

I'd stay away from anything with a pancake motor. the newer versions run so much better, and are far more durable than the older pancake motor stuff. the pancakes used in old Bachmann and tyco engines were very cheaply made.

the 2-6-0 with sound is a good locomotive. I have one (technically, the old lady's as she loves steam) and it performs very well. it is compatible with almost any other ho trains.

be wary of what you buy on ebay used. especially until you know what to steer clear of. there are a lot of older cars and locomotives out there which may not be in running condition, or very poor performers. buying new locomotives will almost always be a better investment than buying an older one. the improvements made in the past 25 years or so mean that even the cheap  train set locomotive runs as well as the top of the line stuff from the 1970s.


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 09:31:46 PM
I'll definitely look at the store links, Rich, and download and study what I can. Thanks!  :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: richg on January 07, 2014, 09:33:04 PM
Since Bachmann uses SoundTraxx decoders, below is a link with a fellow is very involved with SoundTraxx and use to have an online DCC store. Look in Curriculum, SoundTraxx and Tsunami to see what is involved with DCC and sound. Take your time before you jump.

http://www.mrdccu.com/

Below is a link to SoundTraxx.

http://www.soundtraxx.com/

You are better off to have a good knowledge base before jumping and buying the wrong thing.

Store all the links I have given you in Favourites for future use and to advise others.

Ricj


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 09:37:23 PM
jward, I love the steam locomotives too.  :)  Thanks so much for your information on and suggestion/reasons to stay away from the pancake motors. I have learned so much here already! I hadn't really thought about the improved technology, parts, etc vs the old sets.


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: Pacific Northern on January 07, 2014, 09:54:28 PM
Pacific Northern, thank you for your helpful information. In your opinion, is a pancake motor not as good as a can motor? If a train is very old, can I still get parts? Thank you. :)

It has been my experience that the old pancake motors do not run as smooth as the newer motors. Also, the lifespan of one of the old pancake motors is really a hit or miss. As far as parts, no forget it, other than obtaining other old engines for use as parts you will not find the pancake parts available through Bachmann.

While I do not think it necessary to go to the Spectrum steam engines as the newer standard engines have been upgraded over the years and the new engines are considered to be well running engines.




Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: WriterGal on January 07, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
Pacific Northern, thanks for the info. I had the feeling that's what I'd hear about the pancake motor and parts after reading everyone's replies. When you say "new" engines, what year are you referring to? Is there a year or span of years considered the "new" version?  :)


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: Doneldon on January 08, 2014, 05:54:30 AM
Writer-

Converting a non-DCC Ready locomotive to DCC is not a job for someone who is new to model railroading. The same is true for adding pickups to tender wheels. The wheels change in seconds but building effective, reliable pickups is something else again. You'll also have to replace the non-functional coupler on the front of that Prairie. I think that's an easy enough job but nor perhaps for someone who doesn't yet have experience with how HO trains are supposed to work.

I realize I'm throwing a wet blanket on the 2-6-2 idea and I'm surprised to hear myself doing so. Prairies are my favorite type of locomotive so usually I encourage people to go for them. But I'm afraid I should discourage you from doing so just now. Let me suggest that you limit yourself to DCC on board (installed) models until you are more familiar with how things operate. You can generally purchase DCC installed models for about the cost of a non-DCC loco and a decoder but without the chore of making the conversion.
                                                                                                                                                                                      -- D


Title: Re: "unlettered" locomotive and tender
Post by: Jerrys HO on January 08, 2014, 06:37:26 AM
Micro Mark has the sound value Alco 2-6-0 for $124. Ready to run on DC or DCC.

The Favourite Spot is an excellent ebay seller and usually prices right around what Micro Mark has. There are a couple other online sellers that have competitive prices.

Different places will have different road names on rhe loco.

Rich

The Favorite Spot has always been cheaper than most online sellers for Bachmann products.

http://www.thefavoritespot.com/m-1-bachmann.aspx?section=-2092-2104-

Their store price starts at 105.00 and up.
I picked mine up for $80.00 on one of their e-bay auctions.

I agree with others to stay away from the older ones, most newer loco's have dual mode decoders that work with either DC or DCC so if you ever decide to go DCC all you would need to do is swap out your DC controller for a DCC one and your off to more learning experiences :P.

Jerry