Bachmann Online Forum

Discussion Boards => HO => Topic started by: janedoedad on February 02, 2014, 11:35:56 PM

Title: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on February 02, 2014, 11:35:56 PM
Hello All,

A couple months back, JWARD was kind enough to make for me an ANYRAIL file for "The Railroad That Grows" using EZ Track.  I put the layout together and came to the conclusion that I wanted something different.

Expanded the table to a 5 X 9 and came up with the layouts below. Layouts were created using SCARM
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/OscarLine_zps480c3058.jpg)


This is the "Oscar Line" and exist in my mind only.  I expect to have steam and diesel on the route.  Geographically, it would be somewhere in the California Central Valley and Sierra Foothills.  There will be passenger service to at least two stations and freight service to a few businesses as well as a small yard.

The top layout is what is currently in place.  The lower layout with return loop and additional spurs is being considered.  Outer loop on both uses 22" curves.  

The outer loop spurs  the lower layout are just a thought - not sure about mixing Atlas and EZ track   Either layout gives me plenty of room for scenery and such.  Would like to know what you think is wrong, could be improved or what may be right about either of these.

Not quite ready to invest in DCC yet, so the Oscar line will be DC and blocks.

Thanks in Advance!

JDD

Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Joe Satnik on February 03, 2014, 01:25:56 AM
Dear JDD,

Using a 5x9 opens up a lot more possibilities.

I like your use of symmetry in the middle of the upper layout.

Your lower layout has a turn around path that is shared by 2 turn around loops.

With DC-Block wiring, you will need to isolate both rails and have a polarity changing

switch for the turn around loops. 

There is a concern about train direction, though.   

If you are going Clock-Wise (CW), you can pull forward through either turn around loop,

which will then face your train CCW. 

Note that to turn around again, you will need to back your train through the turn around loop,

as there is no forward path to get you going in the original (CW) direction again.   

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on February 03, 2014, 01:33:05 PM
JDD-

Wow! So many options and opportunities. You can really build yourself a first-class operation off of either of these starter set-ups.

The spurs on the outside of the lower layout are an excellent use of space. It's possible to run the track through a scene block there and suddenly find the train at a remote cattle pen, a mine or a suburban factory.

The spur between the loops of the lower layout is also a good idea. If you bend it back into the outer loop, it could serve as a passenger station track so you can keep the mainline free while passengers board and alight. You could build the station above the tracks, suggesting a larger, more important station and city. You can do the same thing if you extend the spur to the inner track. That way, the station could represent two stations, depending on which mainline feeds the train into the station.

Such a configuration can also be used for an empties in / loads out feature. That usually requires two tracks so the "loads" and "empties" can "pass" one another while concealed, but it also works if the "empties" are delivered to a sawmill, for example, and then pulled "after emptying" from, say, a furniture factory while the "loads" are in transit from the mill to the factory, and the "loads" are delivered to the factory and pulled from the sawmill while the "empties" are in transit from the factory to the sawmill. This can be a lot of fun for children, whose imagination's can easily make the jump, and for visitors who will be charmed by the operation even though they'll quickly realize that the two industries are connected inside the scenery. The only  real downside to a set-up like this is that it so often tempts visitors to comment on how "cute" your trains are. Many of us hate the term when it is applied to our models.

If you have turnouts in both loops leading to wye turnouts at the ends of the track between the loops, you can have a dandy through-running passenger station with three tracks, functional crossovers both ways, the option of removing the motive power from a train for replacement or service in the engine house before proceeding, and very handy run-around tracks.

I also like the possibility of having some elevation to the train's terrain (sorry 'bout that -- I just like the sound of it) either inside the loops, where it can be an effective view block, or outside where it can conceal the turn-back curves to some degree. You can use one of your empty corners for a nice, classic scene of track on a curved trestle with a mountain stream below. I'd probably put something like that on the upper-right-hand corner of either layout.

As Joe said, the one-way reverse loop has an issue by being one way only. Backing trains through curves and turnouts requires bullet-proof track work, broad curves, well-adjusted couplers mounted to the cars' bodies, quality trucks in spec, and a deft hand on the throttle. For me, it's not worth the hassle because I'd rather use the real estate for something else like a more extensive yard, an industry or two, or perhaps an engine shed (one or two stalls).

You could have a nice yard on the lower plan if you remove the reverse loop, place the turnout which leads to the yard as far to the right as possible, begin the yard ladder right away without curving it first, and cutting unneeded length off of the turnouts so the yard tracks are closer together. You would be able to add at least one more yard track, maybe two. You could put a switchback in the farthest track (or between any pair of tracks) for a lead to an engine house, industry, freight warehouse or team track. Moving the yard-entry turnout to the right would allow you to extend the length of the crossover between the loops, making it more useful as a runaround track.

If you put some elevation at the right of the lower layout, you can have partially concealed turn back curves, tunnels, the trestle and river scene and either direct or switchback service up to a mine or logging camp. You can put steep grades and a couple of hellish curves on such a section and have its use limited to a geared steamer and very short cars.

Well, I've probably confused you with my random and vague observations so I'd better quit before I get any farther behind. I will say, though, the I urge you to reconsider your decision to avoid DCC for the time being. A layout like this one could be a bit of work to wire for DC cab control. You can easily have four locomotives running at a time, even five, and that would be the devil's own work with DC and blocks.

Please let us know what you finally come up with.
                                                                               -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on February 03, 2014, 11:40:34 PM
Joe and Doneldon,

Thanks much for your replies. I appreciate and value your input. 

The reverse loop will go away, the thought was a train on each line running in opposite directions from any starting point. Isolation and wiring will achieve the same end. 

I should have mentioned that elevation to the train's terrain 8) are planned for the Oscar Line.   The outer loop (right side) will rise about 3" heading up into the foothills.  Some of the features Doneldon mentioned are in the works.   ;D  The inner loop will have smaller elevation changes to make a more visually interesting layout. 

Will likely keep the inner loop close to what in on the top layout.  Going to experiment with moving the runaround and yard spacing.    The idea of shortening the turnouts is a little scary, those things are not cheap.



DCC is definitely going to happen, just have to wait for the train fund to build back up. 

I

Thanks again for your time and assistance!  May have Oscar Line, Version 2.5 posted in a day or two.

JDD




Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on February 04, 2014, 12:09:50 AM
JDD-

Keep your grades to no more than two percent except on lines with geared locos. Also, remember that an abrupt change in curvature, including the vertical curve at the beginning of a grade is a potential trouble spot so ease the transition if possible. And I suggest that you not begin a grade at a turnout.
                                                                                                                                                                               -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on February 05, 2014, 10:11:19 AM
the biggest problem I see is the s curves in the crossover tracks between the two mains.  my suggestion is to either mover those crossovers to the ends of the curves to eliminate the s curves, or use #4 or #5 switches for the crossovers.

an 18r s curve, such as you have in the existing plan, is a sure source of trouble.
Title: Oscar Line 2.5
Post by: janedoedad on February 06, 2014, 06:51:16 PM
Here it is.  Oscar Line 2.5   ;D

I think this what I am going to build, Input and suggestions are welcome.


Main line will have elevation on the right and top sides.

Changed switches on run-around - no more S-curves (Thanks Jeff!)

Kept the offset inner loop, think it breaks up the visual a bit and allows for some fun scenery placement.

May add a turnout outside the main line on the left side.

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/OscarLine2_zps5d6caf82.jpg)


Thanks again for your input, ideas and advice!

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: ryeguyisme on February 06, 2014, 08:03:43 PM
my suggestion would be wider radius curves where and whenever you  can, those 22's in the corner could be 26 inch radius instead
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on February 06, 2014, 11:41:25 PM
Quote from: ryeguyisme on February 06, 2014, 08:03:43 PM
my suggestion would be wider radius curves where and whenever you  can, those 22's in the corner could be 26 inch radius instead


5X9 Table and I already exceed the real estate allocated by SWMBO.   If I had that kind of room though. . .  :D   
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 02, 2014, 02:35:12 AM
Hi!

Construction of the Oscar Line (2.5) is underway.  Here are a few pictures of what is going on so far.  Rebuilt the benchwork to a solid 5'x9' and topped with 2" foam board.  Using Woodland Scenic's risers and starters for elevation changes.

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3675_zps956ebedb.jpg)
Left Side of the layout, 2% Elevation to 2" on outer loop.  2% Elevation to 1/2" on Inner Loop
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3676_zps81221e9b.jpg)
photThe turnout and spur on the outer loop (top) are level, not sure what purpose that spur will serve yet.   ???

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3674_zps1d364250.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3677_zpsd7dd1fb9.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3671_zpsfe8f9d1f.jpg)
Right side of layout.  4% elevation on lower side of outer loop, transitions to 2%.  Need to pick up a few more switches at the Georgia Train Show in two weeks. (Shameless plug for NMRA Piedmont Division).  There are 3 Manual Turnouts, 3 DCC Turnouts and the rest are electric.  I should standardize this.  :o    (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3673_zps2a27edac.jpg)


The Planning and Zoning Committee meets next week to discuss land use and road layout.  Have to figure out where to put a bridge or two and some tunnels.  The yard on the left will likely remain level as that is the industrial part of town.  Agriculture and residential to the right.  Passenger stations will be placed accordingly  Just for fun there will be a 'wrong side of the tracks' somewhere.   :D  Will be gluing down the foam trackbed starting tomorrow and start to ballast in the next week.

Still trying to figure the transition from desert to foothills.  Have not ruled out the idea of a table divider. Not sure how well that would work out with the outer loop being elevated.

Suggestions are welcomed!
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 02, 2014, 08:13:42 AM
Looks like terrific progress! :)
Everything run well?
Make sure to keep up with keeping the steel rails clean.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Morgun 30 on March 02, 2014, 09:11:46 AM
Always good to see a plan go from paper to table. I agree, it looks great. Keep up the good work and updates. Some video would be nice, too. ;)
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: badkarma on March 02, 2014, 07:42:54 PM
Talking about track expansions. I'm planning to expand to a 3 track layout. An inner, middle, and outer. All 3 tracks will be connected by using 4 bachmann crossover. My question is what raduis curved tracks should I use? Actually what raduis curved tracks would I use to create the middle curved tracks? The inside track is easy because I'm using 18 raduis curved 30 degrees. The outer is 22 raduis curved the middle should be 20, but ez tracks don't make 20 raduis curved tracks.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on March 02, 2014, 09:56:43 PM
jdd-

Looking good! The only change I would make is I'd start the yard right at the turnout which leads off of the inner main and I would run it straight rather than turn it so it's parallel to the front of the table. You'll have a much larger and more useful yard that way, as well as one with diagonal lines which will look more natural.
                                                                                                                                                                               -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: electrical whiz kid on March 07, 2014, 08:11:01 PM
As was mentioned earlier, the use of a view block-in my opinion-right through the middle of it, and extensive use of a grid system so that you can cut some neat looking topography into it would give you more opportunities that you already have.  There was a good write-up in "Model "Railroader" not too long back with this sort of venue in mind.  Not everyone wants to have an "octopus" for a layout, and y6ou seem to have a pretty good approach to this all.  Good Luck.
Rich C.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 08, 2014, 09:26:16 AM
Thanks for the responses and input.  Much appreciated.

Everything seems to work as it should. There are a couple of areas that are prone to derailing, I suspect that is more about the train car than the track.

Doneldon,  Is this what you are suggesting to get the diagonal appearance of the yard?  I like that it adds more space and function to the yard and provides an additional area for scenery.  I'll try this out today. 

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/OscarLineyard_zps0b2f0c32.jpg)

Whiz Kid, Still considering a table divider, I will have to look up the article you mention.

Thanks again!

JDD


Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 08, 2014, 09:40:02 AM
rearranging the yard put the s curve back. perhaps #4 or #5 would be more appropriate for this area, and the siding at the top. both have 18r s curves.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Morgun 30 on March 08, 2014, 10:09:42 AM
JDD, I think Don is talking about the yard on the inner main on the North side of the lay-out. And I think Jward is talking about the side on the outer main.  Then again, I could be completely wrong.

Your table is 5' X 9', right?
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 08, 2014, 01:08:06 PM
Yes, Table is 5x9

The North yard (inner loop) is not complete.  Have to look at removing the curves and running 2 straight sections.

Have to live with the S-curve on the north outer loop for now.  It may go away when I start putting the scenery in (or not).   :)

Changes to the south yard are being debated.  Can put a straight section in to eliminate the S-curve issue.

Today's project is removing the 4.5" straights from the east and West outer loop and replacing with 3".  I ran out of working room  :o for scenery and such.  I get to reset the risers and such.  Then, out comes the glue gun. for setting the terrain.  Not going to anchor the track just yet.  Decided to do away with all but one of the powered re-railers.  Ordered wired joiners on eBay last night and will try to install in the next week or so.  

Bought a DCC system, so wiring will be a straightforward process.  

Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 08, 2014, 08:00:19 PM
jdd, is it always the same cars that are derailing?  Always in the same locations?
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on March 08, 2014, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: janedoedad on March 08, 2014, 09:26:16 AM
Doneldon,  Is this what you are suggesting to get the diagonal appearance of the yard?  I like that it adds more space and function to the yard and provides an additional area for scenery.  I'll try this out today. 

JDD-

Yes, more or less. One thing about model railroading is that most any setup can
benefit from moving things around and testing alternatives.
                                                                                             -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 09, 2014, 05:35:27 PM
 seems to me that if all switches in the yard area were rights, the s curve issue would be solved. and you'd still have that angled yard, but at 60 degrees instead of 30 degrees.

I miss my old laptop, and my anyrail program. I would have drawn those revisions for you to show what I mean if I could.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 09, 2014, 10:38:19 PM
Hi All,

JBrock27,  Yes, it is the same three cars with issues.  Two of the cars have a case of the wobbles.  Unsure of what manufacture they are.  The trucks have a lot of play and seem loose.

Don,  Very true, still not sure how the yard will end up.   :-\

Jward,  But then what to do with all the left handed turnouts I have on hand?   ;D   What happened to your laptop?  

The Model Train Show is next weekend. (Cobb Galleria)  Maybe I can find a good price for some turnouts, cars and parts.  Scenery supplies are also on the shopping list.

Hope to make some progress this week.  Will post pictures.

Thanks,

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 10, 2014, 12:09:58 PM
I can see only one left in the latest plan that would be affected. model rails are resourceful. I'm sure you;ll find a place to use it. another industrial spur, perhaps?

on my laptop the plug where the power supply connects is broken. best buy won't touch it since I didn't buy it there, and they'd rather sell me a new one than fix what I have. I am looking at purchasing a battery charger and an extra battery, so I can be using one and charging the other. but money is tight right now.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Morgun 30 on March 10, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
Possible options?

(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy318/bundy52722/janedoedad2_zpsd9288287.jpg) (http://s803.photobucket.com/user/bundy52722/media/janedoedad2_zpsd9288287.jpg.html)

OOPS, Looks like I created an S in the lower yard, didn't I? :-\
I guess you could spend more money and go with this.

(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy318/bundy52722/janedoedad3_zps5ea69c0d.jpg) (http://s803.photobucket.com/user/bundy52722/media/janedoedad3_zps5ea69c0d.jpg.html)

OK, Morgun, step away from the computer.......
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Jerrys HO on March 10, 2014, 06:51:55 PM
QuoteOK, Morgun, step away from the computer.......

NOOO come back!
Morgun you really out done yourself this time. The second one is my favorite choice.
This should really get a lot of modelers with limited space rolling.
If you would post a list of materials or PM them to me as I know someone looking for a decent plan.
Like Jeff my other computer had the mother board fail and my anyrail stuff is on that hard drive. When I get time I plan on e-mailing anyrail to see if my account can be moved to this computer.

Jerry
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 10, 2014, 08:05:59 PM
jdd, do you have the ability to post any pictures of the undersides of the offending rolling stock?
Do all 3 act up at the same location on the layout?
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Jhanecker2 on March 10, 2014, 09:35:15 PM
To Jward :   i have had bad experiences with  best buys computer repair.    I use local computer technicians for repairs , though I would buy computers from Best Buys if and when the price is right . J2.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 10, 2014, 11:12:19 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 10, 2014, 08:05:59 PM
jdd, do you have the ability to post any pictures of the undersides of the offending rolling stock?
Do all 3 act up at the same location on the layout?

There were three cars, now only two.  Other one was caboose that broke a truck when it fell off the table.  These derail randomly, most often at turn-outs before hitting the points. 

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3721_zps0b2f0a2c.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3720_zps13b4f38b.jpg)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3722_zpsda812a47.jpg)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3723_zpsc9756e9e.jpg)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3724_zps9f5b5660.jpg)

Thanks,

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Joe Satnik on March 10, 2014, 11:58:39 PM
Morgun,

Referring to your "step away from the computer" layout:

Great job eliminating the "S" curve entering the ladder yard.   

You could move the ladder 9" to the right, then add 9" to each of the rungs on the left end for longer train storage.

The remote (18"R) turnouts would still have worked in the ladder,

so there's some cost savings if you want to go back to them.

Still looking for a facing point spur, perhaps shifting the top turnout would make room an opposite direction one.

If the top turnout were numbered, it would allow a longer straight between opposing curves, so less of the "S"

curve effect in the spur. 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik





Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 11, 2014, 07:08:18 AM
Good job on the pics jdd.  They look like old Bachmann and AHM cars with "pizza cutter" ABS plastic wheel flanges.  The trucks on these old "train set" cars don't always hold their shape so well and in a couple of your pics, it looks like they are bent or warped.  Also, sometimes the wheels on these models will have a chip or "dent" in the plastic flange of the wheel which leads to running trouble.  All these things could be contributing to their running problems as well as they are likely very light and underweight by NMRA standards, especially the gondola cars.  This would explain problems running thru the turnouts where other cars run fine.  I would imagine they are not very well detailed or colored, correct? 
If that is the case, my suggestion is to set them aside and not run them and to not invest any $ in trying to update them, the time and $ just not being worth it.  You could also hold onto them until July 4th rolls around ;)
While on the subject, I also suggest you get an NMRA standards gauge if you don't already have one.  It is a great tool and can be used to diagnose turnout problems and check the gauge of wheels.  The wheels on these may be out of gauge as well and if you have the gauge, you would be able to check them.  I would not buy the gauge as much to help with these cars as much as it is just a good idea to have one for future work.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 11, 2014, 07:42:26 AM
All correct.  The weight difference is very obvious with these two cars.

The eBay lot that had the joiners, also had NMRA Mk IV gauge and Kadee coupler gauge in it. 

What about the Fourth of July?   ;D   Are you suggesting I could recreate the robbery scene from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid"  :o

Thanks for the help!

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 11, 2014, 08:07:43 AM
You are quite welcome.

Excellent, you have 2 of my favorite and most useful train tools.

Of course, I would never suggest anything that is illegal in your state, but....yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting ;D  My son and I did that with a ERTL car we got in lot with an SD45 loco and other cars (after we took off the trucks and screws and anything else that could be useful down the road).
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Morgun 30 on March 11, 2014, 10:24:29 AM
Joe,

While I've enjoyed playing with this lay-out, it is JDD's and he has a vision of what he wants it to be. I think it started with a lay-out Jward did for him, then he made some changes to come up with his design, then we've made some suggestions.

I'll keep playing with some ideas, but I think I'll start a new post to display them as not to highjack his post.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on March 11, 2014, 06:47:45 PM
JDD-

The cars which you showed us are almost certainly the cause of their own derailments. To start they have what's called Talgo trucks. That means the coupler is mounted on a beam which is part of the truck. These are notoriously unreliable, especially when backing up. The horn-hook (also called NMRA or X2f) couplers certainly aren't helping. The cars are almost underweight which contributes to trackability problems. The plastic wheels probably don't contribute to your derailment problems very much but they will force you to do much more track cleaning that metal wheels would do. I'm saying all of these things because they are the expected gremlins in inexpensive set rolling stock, and that's what these cars reveal themselves to be. They might have been sold separately, but they are train set quality.

It is possible to rehabilitate these cars but they probably aren't worth it. At a minimum, you would need to bring the cars up to weight, replace the plastic wheel sets with metal ones, remove the coupler beams, install good knuckle couplers on the car bodies and tune the couplers and trucks. Replacing the trucks with new ones equipped with metal wheel sets would be strongly advised because that would take care of both the plastic wheel problem and the work of cutting off the coupler beams.

Unfortunately, you are looking at 20-30 minutes of work and an expenditure of $5 - $10 per car. That cost breaks down as about $3 for four metal wheel sets (or $5 - $7 for new trucks), about $2 - $2.50 for quality knuckle couplers, and zero to a couple of bucks for weights if you don't have something suitable around the house or in the coffee can full of old screws and nails that you've been hoarding since you first moved to your own place. Actually, you probably do have something suitable for the stock car: pennies. But the gon is another story. Unless you can gin up a load for the gon you'll have to buy an underfloor weight because a stack of pennies would look a little out of place laying in the bottom of the car. And you'd still have basic cars with mediocre details.

I cannot urge you to do this because the return in value, both monetary and as a model, is nearly nothing. I would not do it myself and that's coming from someone who knows how to do this quickly and has the special tools needed to make the job go as smoothly as possible. However, if these cars have some sentimental value or your model railroading budget just won't support expenditures for quality rolling stock right now, you might legitimately decide to go ahead with the upgrading. That's a decision only you can make.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck and please keep us informed about your progress and success.
                                                                                                                                                             -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 11, 2014, 09:50:01 PM
One small point Doc regarding the plastic trucks on these problem cars that jdd has.  These ABS plastic trucks have a tendency for the plastic to wear downward from where the hole is that the axle point fits into.  You can even see it in some of the pictures.  At the very least, this causes a lot of wobble when running and also causes the wheels to not run true in the truck and between that and the possibility the wheels sets are bent or have chips out of the flanges, creates the strong possibility that the wheels do contribute to derailments.   And even if new, sometimes the wheel sets are not in gauge.  Based on your point on the talgo trucks, one might expect talgo trucks can never run forward well (I agree they are very poor for backing up)  but this is not the case.  jdd, do you have other cars with the same style trucks that run no problem?

Let's call these what they are: cheap trucks and cheap wheel sets that are prone to problems other trucks and wheelsets don't have.

While I am at it I will point out there is a big difference between running these ABS plastic wheelsets that create track "grime" and Delrin wheelsets which are head and shoulders better than ABS plastic.  I am not convinced Delrin wheelsets make for that much more track cleaning work than metal ones.  I do certainly like and use metal ones as well.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 11, 2014, 11:07:33 PM
don I have to disagree with you about the wheelsets not causing derailment problems. those shown do not conform to nmra rp25 specs, which makes them more susceptible to derailments. my experience with these cheap one piece plastic wheelsets is that they are often out of guage as well. that's another cause of derailments. unfortunately, with one piece wheelsets there is no way to adjust them back into guage.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 12, 2014, 12:55:29 AM
Thanks to everyone for your responses about the cars.  Since the cars in question are not Bachmann, they came from one of the 'look under the table' clearance boxes at a train show or swap meet.   Sometimes you can find all sorts of interesting things in those boxes!   ;D

Picked up a few brand new Bachmann sets recently for a good (Really Good!)  :o price.  The older Talgo cars with hook/horn couplers will be phased out.

Decided on the final plans for my lay out.  I will post the plan and some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks Again!!  You have saved me time, money and frustration with your advice and suggestions.


Scott
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 12, 2014, 07:23:50 AM
Excellent idea jdd! Did you buy the Silver Series models?

Jeff, is that the same as saying you agree with me?!? ;)
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 12, 2014, 11:12:48 AM
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 12, 2014, 07:23:50 AM
Excellent idea jdd! Did you buy the Silver Series models?

No, these are two starter sets (Santa Fe Flyer and Pacific Flyer) on clearance for $20 each.  Figure I will keep the locos and cars, sell the track and power pack on eBay.   The LHS has a (very) few Silver Series models in stock and the price ($9 - $15) seems reasonable.  The LTS will order, not sure of the pricing.

Haven't opened up the locomotives to see if they are "DCC Ready" or easily converted.  Nothing mentioned on the box about that, although one is the same type engine found in the "Commander" sets. 



@Doneldon,  I may try to convert a couple of these cars just for the learning experience, if nothing else.   :-\    May just put a couple of 'train sets' together and donate to the local underprivileged kids.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 12, 2014, 12:21:15 PM
jdd, that's a reasonable price for Silver Series stock.
My suggestion on the power pack you may look to sell, is to keep it as an auxiliary power source to power switch machines or lights or other power driven things, unless you have others already in place to do that.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on March 13, 2014, 05:24:42 AM
JDD-

Putting some sets together for some kids who is an outstanding thing to do. It's probably the best use of
equipment we won't be using on our own pikes. And I thank you for your generosity.
                                                                                                                                -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 13, 2014, 09:03:09 AM
both sets are not dcc ready, though they can be converted. the 0-6-0 steamer is the hardest to do, as you need to use a z scale decoder. there is no room in the locomotive for anything bigger.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 13, 2014, 09:47:14 PM
Grrr!!!! Just had a post disappear.  Tried to resubmit and got an eror message saying the post had already been submitted. 

Anyhow, here are some pictures of the Oscar Line RR - Final Draft

Thanks to everyone for your ideas, suggestions, advice and opinions.  I appreciate all your help.

The Construction Crew has arrived.  They seem a bit overwhelmed.   :P
 
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3732_zps417b2f5c.jpg)

Western Half

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3727_zps5d9d2bf9.jpg)

Eastern Half

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3728_zps6065b067.jpg)

Couple of bad pictures of the entire layout

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3729_zpse5a7678e.jpg)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3731_zps5c842104.jpg)
Some (not so) detail pictures

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3734_zps9e969f58.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3733_zpsccd98fb6.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT3735_zps8f37afb2.jpg)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/OscarLine2_zps7581d108.jpg)

Want to replace two manual turnouts with remotes before securing and ballasting the track. 

Thanks Again!

Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 13, 2014, 09:57:40 PM
Quote from: jward on March 13, 2014, 09:03:09 AM
both sets are not dcc ready, though they can be converted. the 0-6-0 steamer is the hardest to do, as you need to use a z scale decoder. there is no room in the locomotive for anything bigger.

I would go blind trying to work with something that small.   ;D  I think the 0-6-0 will be reserved for excursion rides for tourists. 

I will have to see about converting the other engine, the LTS does conversions.  No idea what the price is.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 13, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
Progress is being made, looking good!

Spectrum controller?
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 13, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
It is getting there.

Yes, that is a Spectrum.  Will be replaced by DCC System in a few months.  I have some other powerpacks to run lighting, switches and so on.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 14, 2014, 12:32:10 AM
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 12, 2014, 07:23:50 AM
Excellent idea jdd! Did you buy the Silver Series models?

Jeff, is that the same as saying you agree with me?!? ;)

of course, when you're right.  ;D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 14, 2014, 06:17:58 AM
LOL jw! I like it much better when that happens my Scottish brother :D

jdd, when you transition to DCC, do you intend on still using the steel track?
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 14, 2014, 07:02:32 AM
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 14, 2014, 06:17:58 AMjdd, when you transition to DCC, do you intend on still using the steel track?

Probably. Until it becomes too much of a hassle to maintain.  Will have to see how it works out. 

Using wired joiners, the plan is to have power about every 5-6 feet.  Hopefully this will compensate for any power issues.   Might wire the whole thing in blocks,  Going to stick with non-DCC turnouts for now.

Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jward on March 14, 2014, 07:54:33 AM
some of us prefer the old analog way of controlling switch motors.  you can run dcc without using it to control accessories. and save yourself a ton of money in the process.

block control is  compatible with dcc. in fact I wired my layout for block control even though it was never intended  for dc control for the reason that being able to isolate tracks allows me to continue to run the layout in the event of a short circuit somewhere on the layout, by isolating that section. it also lessens power draw on the command station. that will be especially important if you are trying to use a low powered dcc system like the basic ez command unit. of course, block control with dcc flies in the face of the conventional wisdom the magazines push. but it's really not hard to do.

as for the z scale decoder, they may be tiny, but the wiring is the same size as an ho one. my eyesight isn't the greatest, and while I'd never built a z scale layout I have found z ecale decoders useful for tight situations such as the 0-6-0 ofr Thomas the tank engine.

Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Joe Satnik on March 14, 2014, 09:39:49 AM
JDD,

Run a lot of various operations on your layout to proof it out before ballasting.

You glued down your risers before I could comment on the two "S" curves hiding in the design. 

Your upper turnout with "immediate turn back to parallel" is a pure "S" curve with no straight 

length between opposing curves.

Your yard entrance curves to the right, goes straight for 4-1/2" plus 1-1/2" (turnout offset), then curves left. 

With cars shorter than 6" you could probably live with that.  Longer cars may start to give you trouble.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Doneldon on March 14, 2014, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: janedoedad on March 14, 2014, 07:02:32 AM
Using wired joiners, the plan is to have power about every 5-6 feet.  Hopefully this will compensate for any power issues.

JDD-
The issues with steel alloy track are many. One is that steel alloy isn't as good at conducting electricity as are brass or nickel/silver. The main one has to do with rail maintenance.

Most rails need cleaning because of crud build up. Steel alloy has that problem plus it rusts. And rust is a truly lousy conductor. What's worse is that rust doesn't come off with standard cleaning; it has to be physically removed. That means abrasives. Those abrasives remove part of the rail as well as leaving minute scratches which will then hold crud on the rails. For these reasons, I strongly urge you to use Wahl clipper oil, Conductalube or another conductive coating on the tops and inside surfaces of your railheads. That will hold off the corrosion and even the crud accumulation, at least a little.
                                                                                                                                                                                 -- D
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 14, 2014, 04:33:14 PM
I know about the S-Curves.   May add a 4.5" piece to straighten the upper siding out.  Not a big deal to move the risers.  That little section is pretty much there for the excursion train, an 0-6-0 with 1 or 2 older type passenger cars and caboose. 

The yard entrance stays as is for now.  If it becomes a problem, it can always be changed.   Plan on staying with cars that are 50 scale feet or less, I understand longer (70' or more) cars have issues with 18" curves. 

Track maintenance is going to be interesting.  Here in Georgia the humidity is terrible.  Corrosion control will be an ongoing process. 

Thanks again!

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 14, 2014, 07:46:32 PM
I strongly 2nd Doc's suggestion of using Wahl Clipper oil.  I think it would be the most effective way of staving off the rust and corrosion.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on March 18, 2014, 08:49:20 PM
Thanks!  I will give that a try.

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: rogertra on March 18, 2014, 10:53:46 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 14, 2014, 07:46:32 PM
I strongly 2nd Doc's suggestion of using Wahl Clipper oil.  I think it would be the most effective way of staving off the rust and corrosion.

I've tried both and I'd suggest Rail Zip.   ;D


Cheers

Roger.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Jerrys HO on March 19, 2014, 07:01:10 AM
I second the use of Rail Zip. All I have ever used since I started in DCC.
Recommended to me by another modeler.

Jerry
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on March 19, 2014, 12:35:06 PM
Next opportunity, I will have to get and try some Rail Zip then.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout UPDATE
Post by: janedoedad on June 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM
Hello All,

Been some time since last checked in.  Have been working on the scenery and other aspects of the Oscar Line layout that are not Bachmann specific.  Scenery has been constructed of extuded foam, plaster cloth, drywall compound (leftover from jobsite), paper mache and cardboard.  

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4086_zpsea074f28.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4086_zpsea074f28.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4087_zps202333d5.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4087_zps202333d5.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4088_zpsff138a4e.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4088_zpsff138a4e.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4089_zps4c19989d.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4089_zps4c19989d.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4090_zpsd4d8cf98.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4090_zpsd4d8cf98.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4091_zps10899e9b.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4091_zps10899e9b.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4092_zps09b81ef1.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4092_zps09b81ef1.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4093_zps12ef1d5f.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4093_zps12ef1d5f.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4095_zps7e0d519a.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4095_zps7e0d519a.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4095_zps7e0d519a.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4095_zps7e0d519a.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4096_zps33977a8a.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4096_zps33977a8a.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4097_zps0e661b2f.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4097_zps0e661b2f.jpg.html)


(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4098_zps2afd0bb4.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4098_zps2afd0bb4.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/speedwaydog/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4099_zps69d9cf4a.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/speedwaydog/media/Raceroom%20PC/PICT4099_zps69d9cf4a.jpg.html)

Will post more about the layout later on today.

JDD
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: Desertdweller on June 15, 2014, 07:16:58 PM
JDD,

It looks like you are coming along well with your railroad.

In my opinion, I think you should begin replacing your steel rail with nickle silver.  The difference in cost will be only a small increase in the cost you are going to incur anyway.

Nickle silver will not only give you something that is not going to rust.  It will also give you rail that you will be able to solder to.

I know what you mean about humidity.  I had a model railroad when I lived in Mississippi.

Les
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: jbrock27 on June 15, 2014, 09:41:08 PM
Looks like you are having fun!

Agree with Les regarding the n/s track.
Title: Re: EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted
Post by: janedoedad on June 17, 2014, 09:48:03 PM
Hello All,

I have been having fun with the layout.  Scenery has been challenging and a lot of fun.   Much of my scenery supplies are from eBay and the "20 bucks for the whole box!" items found at train shows and yard/estate sales.

Changing to all nickel track is an ongoing process that may be done by the end of the year.   

Won't have a lot of time to work on the Oscar Line until the end of summer due to the summer workload.  Just went from normal to "How do we get this all done by September?!"   ;D 

Going to try and update the photos over the next week or two with some information about what I am trying to do.  As always,  any and all comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks,

JDD