While it is nice that the heavyweights are being brought back, I can't understand why they are now $95 when back when the same coaches were Spectrum line coaches they only cost about $35 a coach. The Bachmann Budd full domes aren't even this expensive. Can the Bach-Man give an explanation?
Increases in production costs. It has been quite a while since they were produced.
261-
These new prices aren't far off from what Walthers charges for their most recent passenger cars. However, the new Bachmann cars are lighted and include interiors which easily make up the difference. And you have to keep in mind that today's models have much, much more detail and usually better trucks and couplers. Years ago we had lousy trucks with plastic wheels, no interiors or lights, cast on grabs and X2f couplers. The windows are better today than the Coke bottle ones on yesterday's models. Some even have painted window gaskets. Much of the added quality and detail is the result of hand assembly and painting which is very expensive to do. I don't enjoy paying more for models today than I did as a youngster but I appreciate the improvements and the hand work.
It's not just plastic passenger cars which have gone up. I used to buy Athearn freight kits for less than $5.00; today's Athearns are $20.00 - $40.00 RTR. Brass passenger cars used to be an unaffordable $30.00; those cars cost up to $100.00 and new brass passenger equipment can cost up to $600.00 per piece. And let's not even talk about the costs of locomotives (but let's not forget how much better today's motive power operates).
When I think about the cost of designing and doing the tooling for a new car model, add packaging, inventory, transportation and marketing, leave something on the table for the retailers, and consider the improvements in appearance and operation, I find it hard to get too bent out of shape about today's model prices. Of course I wish things were less expensive but I'm realistic enough to understand that the models wouldn't exist if the producers couldn't expect to recover their high costs and make a profit.
-- D
Are these cars as detailed as the Spectrum cars of a few years ago and any chance some Norfolk and Western cars will be done?
I downloaded an inflation calculator a while back. In 1972 you could buy an Athearn 40' boxcar for 1.98 from Walthers. The inflation calculator says that today that same model would cost about $11.00. The higher prices today also reflect the higher qualtiy of detailing available than was the case with those generic cars of yesteryear.
I can't understand $95 eather. While I love the spectrum heavyweights, and have as of 2008 the full set of road numbers in B&O. I can't see it
Now I do understand prices going up because the American dollar gets more worthless every year, but not almost triple retail. I could see $65 as a retail, even $70. but not almost $100.
Balto-
I don't like the current prices of things, either, but I do understand them. For example, I just checked my 2012 Walthers catalog for the prices of passenger car lighting kits. I found 25 products selling for an average of over $23 per car, and a range of $9 to a breathtaking $59. (Note to those who think their eyes are playing tricks on them: They aren't.)
-- D
It's getting to be a rich man's hobby only. Can't exactly bring in new folks to the hobby when all this stuff is priced so high. Already had some folks look at the prices, & say that restoring a classic car is cheaper in the long run.
Vermont Bob
Quote from: Zytx on March 01, 2014, 12:46:39 AM
It's getting to be a rich man's hobby only. Can't exactly bring in new folks to the hobby when all this stuff is priced so high. Already had some folks look at the prices, & say that restoring a classic car is cheaper in the long run.Vermont Bob
Zytx-
Not true, at least not most of the time.
I had a '74 Series III E-type Jag roadster which I didn't restore because I wanted it as a driver, but I know what it would have cost to restore. Mine was in good enough condition that the guy in England who bought it from me won a
concours there (of course he standards for show cars are much lower in the UK than here) but I'd have had to drop between 65K and 80K to have a major show candidate here. The guy who bought mine paid almost that much for my car, shipping it back to England and returning it to right hand drive (which isn't really a particularly difficult or pricey thing to do as it turns out). You can build a helluva model railroad for $125,000 - 150,000. That means brass locos (well some, anyway), signals, DCC and the rest of the whole nine yards.
-- D
Milk, bread and gasoline used to cost less too.... Have you looked at the price of plastic kits lately?
plastic kits are jacked high as well, assuming you can find them among all the "ready-to-run" stuff. Just saw a tag for a flatcar around $25 bucks, RTR as well.
I ran the cost of restoring my old 1965 Buick Electra 225 back to factory default, or even just new paint & a cleaning, & it was only around 12 grand. Jags are a special breed of car, they're up there in the Bentley, BMW, Audi area of the shows. I was talking domestic hotrod era, Fords, Chevys, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Hudsons, NAsh, AMC, etc era. A Jag is a rich man's car.
95.00 list price not bad as they will probably sell for 50.00 or under. Try to find that new in any other name brand out there with the same quality.
I own 8 heavyweights and would not trade or sell any of them.
D.... Jag? classic? give me an old 69 charger or 71 challenger any day, now that's classic.
Z
QuoteJags are a special breed of car, they're up there in the Bentley, BMW, Audi area of the shows.
I would never put a Jag in with those others mentioned.
Jerry
Quote from: Zytx on March 01, 2014, 10:01:50 AM
Jags are a special breed of car, they're up there in the Bentley, BMW, Audi area of the shows. I was talking domestic hotrod era, Fords, Chevys, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Hudsons, NAsh, AMC, etc era. A Jag is a rich man's car.
Zytx-
A mid-1950s American car costs about as much to restore as a Jag. Same for mid-1960s muscle cars. Some of the earlier cars, like Model As, '32 Ford coupes and older Chevies are cheaper but that's because there are so many newly-made parts for them. You can actually build some from scratch.The same goes for older VWs.
Jags really don't belong with the luxury boats like the Bentleys or the exotics, at least not the Jag sports cars. They were, and are, upscale vehicles but no more so than Caddies or even some Buicks. The members of my Jag club were, with a few exceptions, middle-class working people. They, and I, had Jags because we fell in love with breed and enjoyed driving them. That's especially true for the early XKs and the E-types (better though inaccurately known as XKEs). I really don't think there has ever been a more beautiful car than an open E-type. I wanted one from the first one I ever saw at age 13. The truth is, the Jag is not a snob car. In England they are considered upscale but not luxury even today. Luxury is stuff like Aston-Martins and Rolls in England, or the limited manufactures from Italy like Maserati or Ferrari.
-- D
Trains guys, trains....
I guess no response to my Norfolk and Western question means "no".
Bach man does not run the company. I bet he is glad that he doesn't. He does not know what Bachmann is working on until they are ready to start production. So give Him a break.
Dear Brewman,
I read every post every night.
I do, in fact, know what we're working on, but we make announcements at specific times. The next announcements will be made at the NMRA National this July.
Wild horses can't drag any serets out of me!
; )
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Serets?
Thanks for the reply Bach-man, that was all I asked for ;). Guess I will have to wait and see. Wish I could tell if these new cars have the same detail as the older spectrum cars we already have.
I am going to challenge the comments about "rich man's hobby". The prices have by and large, increased in concert with the rest of the stuff out there. If you want to find decent prices, go to the trade shows, or e-bay, etc. HOWEVER....Do be careful. "Caveat Emptor" does apply here more than most other venues.
I have acquired most of my stuff in past years, but will agree about the quality, too. For Instance, I have stuff from the past that I would not even think about running behind one of these fine Bachmann locos; they will probably spend the remaining years of my life sitting on the shelf-way up high, and way in back! This is discretionary money we are talking about-and
it is a capitalist economy, [so] competition would be pretty tight. I know that when I price out a job, I do a balancing act as to costs, what the other guy is charging for the same thing, and what I (hope to) realize as profit. it is a tough world, after all.
Rich C.
Quote from: Yardmaster on March 06, 2014, 08:25:01 AM
Serets?
I could tell you what that means but it's a secret.
Cheers
Roger.
Quote from: rogertra on March 07, 2014, 06:14:12 PM
Quote from: Yardmaster on March 06, 2014, 08:25:01 AM
Serets?
I could tell you what that means but it's a secret.
Cheers
Roger.
Roger-
No, it's not. It's a seret.
-- D
In "Ye OLD DAYS", John English produced some of (what I thought at the time was) the best heavyweight passenger cars. They were all ZAMAC in composition; and what they ultimately lacked in detail could have easily added on by a fastidious (or very lucky) modeler. These cars were very track-worthy, and nice and heavy. Ahhhh, the good old days...
RIch C.
Rich-
I still have some of the old zamac cars from Penn Line. They certainly did hug the rails reliably!
-- D
Penn line and John English were two different company. I don't recall Penn line ever making passenger cars. The made mainly locomotive of Pa RR. John English made a 2-8-2 and a 4-6-2 as well as the two passenger cars. You could made real nice MU cars out of them.
Quote from: RAM on March 07, 2014, 09:34:37 PM
Penn line and John English were two different company. I don't recall Penn line ever making passenger cars. The made mainly locomotive of Pa RR. John English made a 2-8-2 and a 4-6-2 as well as the two passenger cars. You could made real nice MU cars out of them.
RAM-
Yes, they did. They sold the zamac cars and later plastic ones using what certainly looked like the same molds. The plastic cars used plastic which wasn't carefully blended so the unpainted kits looked like the bodies were made of marble. The plastic bodies had zamac floors and undercarriages. The kits had four-wheel Talgo trucksand all of the cars were shorties. They actually made a pretty good looking train when they were carefully assembled and painted.
-- D
will this new run of heavyweight have better handling and new tooling? Perhaps an actual baggage car?
I didn't like the old Spectrum heavyweights, even with duel wheel pickup(which should be done to everything now even loco tenders) the coupling design and the diaphragms left a bit to be desired.
If the new run fixes the old problems, I'd be willing to buy these new heavyweights at this new price bracket considering street price is usually almost half that.
Remember you get what you pay for,
more money, more bells and whistles