Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: uscgtanker on May 19, 2014, 06:25:30 PM



Title: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on May 19, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
I'm starting a new project after building the main body for a line of passenger cars. So now i'm going to put my hand at building a TMER&L steeple cab # L-8. The one part to this project that needs a little magic is the traction motors. There is a company that makes them but 75$ for one is not really in my budget. So i'm going to try making them with readily available parts. I will try posting pics for those that want to see.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: Chris PRR on May 20, 2014, 05:05:09 PM
Please lets see pics, passenger cars too.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on May 20, 2014, 09:18:44 PM
Here are some pics of the passenger car set i'm currently holding on any of L8 till i get more measurements. Nice thing I live 20 minutes to east troy and have a membership. Plus being one of there main track inspectors and MOW crew I can get things done. All the passenger cars have lights, though the ops is going to have a blinking LED and barrel head light.

http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/uscgtanker/library/?sort=3&page=1


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: clan line 35028 on May 20, 2014, 09:25:47 PM
great so far bro. after the L8 project how about car 24 and 25 the dinner train?


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on May 24, 2014, 09:51:55 PM
Frame of L-8 is in measurement to real prototype. Started with the traction motors and trucks today will have more pics latter this week.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on May 30, 2014, 07:40:36 AM
http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/uscgtanker/library/L-8%20project?sort=3&page=1

the body is built and three of the four traction motors are also built. will be building one truck to test the motors hauling power traction rating horsepower to scale and suspension. Last saturday was riding on L-8 to elegant farm to move three south shore cars.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 09, 2014, 08:47:12 PM
Made a little error when I built the cab I forgot weight in the humps at each end. Today I fixed that by cutting up two old rail spiks. now she Is heaveir then my Bachmann climax. Currently working out my traction motors and resistor bank. Will be trying one truck assembly on it's own. will have a video of that working.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on June 10, 2014, 09:52:30 AM
Nice work!!  The traction motors were especially impressive.

Thanks for sharing.

Bill


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 11, 2014, 12:15:16 PM
I set up one truck assembly today and tried pulling my heaviest car. No problem with traction and pulling power with 2 motors. And what I payed to build 2 trucks is 40-45$.

here is my youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1UX-3354J4&feature=youtu.be


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on June 13, 2014, 12:37:16 AM
Sweet project. How about sharing the construction process and sources.  I am sure there are others on here and other fora that would be real interested.
Bob C.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 13, 2014, 06:53:34 AM
For the construction proses is slow since I work 12 hour shifts. but I did build one full truck assembly but got stuck with the wiring connections. And what sources are you looking for bob. Where to get info, parts and the prints.

The location of L-8 is at east troy railroad museum which I'm a member there. And 20 minutes north of east troy.
the parts are from hobby town, Hiawatha hobby's and radio shack.

I've had some fun discovery's modeling L-8 with her history and operating her as crew. I will say the guys at ETTM call her slugger for a reason.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on June 13, 2014, 03:29:54 PM
I am curious where you got the gears and motor.  It appears that you have modified a standard Bachmann 31mm wheel set to get the 'traction motor axle'. In case you are curious, there is a thread over on the My Large Scale forum on doing this type of drive.
http://forums.mylargescale.com/15-model-making/30937-magic-carpet-drive-similar.html
Burl has gone way beyond where you are, but I like your simple solution far better.
Bob C.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 13, 2014, 07:18:03 PM
to answer your last question bob, I got the gears at hobby town. they are reagular RC truck drive gears 48P pinion 34T, by Robinson Racing Products. The motor's are from radioshack 1.5-3vDC motor with metal gear. If there is a simple solution to anything keep it.
I'm looking at the possibility to make this model RC control. I'm also thinking on making more then one model and build a few more in 1:29th.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on June 13, 2014, 07:47:11 PM
Most large scale power supplies are in the 19-24 volt range. I am thinking that a 1.5-3 volt motor might not last too long in that environment.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 13, 2014, 08:19:01 PM
I know the voltage is way to high but with my transformer I can run large the switch to Ho scale voltage. I can also put resistors in the wire circuit. And since I'm going to run this on RC it wouldn't be that much voltage.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on June 13, 2014, 09:09:33 PM
After having read back, I see the reference to battery power. Still a quite spiffy way to do it.  I may have to look for some higher voltage motors, maybe in the 9-12 volt range.  I figure if I can find some in that voltage range I can run them in series. Two 9 volt motors in series will act like a single 18 volt motor. So even yours, consider daisy chaining the motors to allow higher voltage batteries.
Bob C.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 13, 2014, 10:05:19 PM
Wiring in series works well till one starts to overload. On the proto type all motors are in parallel but since we operate 600 VDC, so running in series doesn't work all that well.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on June 13, 2014, 11:54:04 PM
You are correct in that the motors need to be similarly matched for it to work perfectly.  In the model world at these low voltages I believe without some sophisticated equipment, matching motors might be a challenge. At the higher voltages/currents of the prototype matching would be mandatory.
Should you like to spend the extra $$s, Pitmann motors will match any size motors you wish. I've looked into it for a slow moving project I am tinkering with.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 14, 2014, 08:48:47 AM
If you want to take a step further in to the project look into your gearing. is  it high speed, medium speed with equaled torque, or low speed with maximum torque. On this project thats the part I can't really fix prototypicaly. L-8 has a high and low gear that is set by placing more resistors in to the system.

I wish you luck in your projects that they don't overwhelm you that much. There is one thing that i like with large scale you can get more prototypicaly then in smaller scale. but my brother want's to go in to the welsh narrow gauge, some were between 15inch and 2 foot.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on June 14, 2014, 12:26:10 PM
Not knowing if you are familiar with the Norfolk and Western's steam turbine electric (Jawn Henry), but that is my long term project.  I have been doing some exploratory solid modeling and have come up with a line shaft type drive train, the general design is shown here:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/17988/search/view/post_id/194766
Going to a traction motor design would work so much better, provided I can get the requisite speeds and torques. 1.75 inches gauge doesn't give much in the length to work in department and 31mm diameter wheels (1.22 inches) isn't much for clearance. There are 12 axles to power on this monster, so that also presents a challenge.
Bob C.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 14, 2014, 04:31:52 PM
I see your problem. My little traction motors will work for this but come at a price. Your loco has about the same design as the union pacific turbines. Then you would have to make 12 motors or make the center axle a idler then give it some extra weight. I would love to take this for a challenge but my building desk is quite full at the moment if you know what I mean.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 19, 2014, 08:31:03 AM
A full week of raining weather allowed me to keep building L-8. so this is whats done sofar to date.
http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/uscgtanker/media/L-8%20project/P1020488_zps4a1cfeba.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

the hand rails are added to one side of the cab, door is in and the floor is laid down. been looking at RC systems and found a 2 channel 2.4 ghrs system at Hobby Town. I might wire in the trucks to run on track voltage for a period of time. After both ends are half detailed I will move on to the roof that will hinge for full access.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on June 23, 2014, 11:03:05 AM
The RC systems were soldiered in place this morning. Now i just have to get a adapter for the battery and will give her a test run. it's only been around 2 1/2 months since i started. lights will be added later after some more electrical figuring.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on July 20, 2014, 10:25:18 PM
I have been working on the lights for L-8 recently. It will run on one AA battery with 1.5 volts. There's going to be a manual switch to change light directions. With the main head light center then the class markers on each side and the red's on the rear. I'm going to make a section of the roof removable for both batterers. After that is all worked out I press on to the finishing details and paint. Then on to the next project Chicago South Shore & South Bend Railroad interurban cars. These I will be selling after three cars are built for display at the east troy depot.

If any one is interested on seeing the real prototype I can give you a first hand tour of our car barn in east troy.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on September 12, 2014, 04:14:44 PM
I have been having a few problems with my RC system. The motors over load the system and shut it down. Plus the little motors I added made great sence, but they don't have that much weight or pulling power up grades. I'm tempted to either rebuild the trucks with worm drives or convert to standard DC power. The body won't be that much altered and lights will still be battery power.

Suggestions will be helpful on what you think will work best in this situation.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on September 12, 2014, 07:05:38 PM
What RC system are =you using??  I would add weight if possible rather than re motor. 


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: armorsmith on September 13, 2014, 01:18:12 AM
Bill,

If you read back to the beginning of the thread, the goal is to do axle mounte drive similar to the NWSL Flea drives. He is using low voltage motors, that if run on standard large scale power will run extremely fast, if they survive the experience.  Coupled with the low quality (said inconsistency) of manufacturing and there is a recipe for failure.

Possible using a quality motor (ie Pittman) designed to run at our voltage and the idea will have a better chance of success. Alan at GAL Line and I looked into it. I found something that was close to working but too long. Unfortunately the cost to tool for our needs was cost prohibitive.

My guess is that the current draw several of the small mitors is overloading the R/C RX.  I doubt any RX will make the cut here. Current not to mention the 'noise' the cheap motors generate

Bob C.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on September 13, 2014, 06:24:50 PM
Yes I could add more weight to the loco. I have 2 road spikes cut up in the humps of the engine. What one of the members at East Troy RR is add a resistor or 2 to reduce current flow. As I said earlier is to rebuild in DC power with more weight and or a bigger motor, instead of a 5 volt say go up to a 10 if the size permites. I can take more detailed photos of the completed truck to show how much space I'm working with.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on September 14, 2014, 08:50:50 AM
Using a resistor and adding weight sounds interesting, let us know how it works out!


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on September 22, 2014, 10:35:45 PM
I have tried a resistor in the electrical system with no good effect. Looks like I'm going to DC power. But on the plus side I have finished the main body work besides windows and small details, and started painting. Hopefully I will have her at Milwaukee train fest in the East Troy Railroad booth.


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: Joe Satnik on September 29, 2014, 12:25:54 PM
Dear Tanker,

If you only need to drop a few volts, the Dallee Diode bridge circuit with extra diodes works well:

http://www.dallee.com/PDFs/MotorDiodeDrop.pdf

It wouldn't be as efficient as a chopped output voltage reducer, but those are electrically pretty noisy.

About your small voltage motor:

Power = Volts x Amps.

If you have a smaller voltage motor, it will have to draw larger amps to do the same work, thus overloading the RX board. 

Adding weight will draw more amps, making the overload problem worse.

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on October 24, 2014, 11:39:21 AM
well since this is a electric locomotive the sound will add to the appeal. On the job list for this weekend is pulling out North Shore 761 with L-8. I will try to get some videos of L-8 in action. I will probably be operating D-23 also a TM car. One thing that I have been building is a South Shore steel interurban number not yet decided. It is painted up in our dinner train colors WW2 extension to 80', the # that we have for that design are #23, #24 and #25. a separate car that will be add is car #107 combine.

Thanks for the help


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on October 26, 2014, 01:19:10 PM
Was working with D-23 cleaning out the barn, moved North Shore 761. Here is a video i just post you tube of L-8 working in the yard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxA06meiGM&list=UUZydqjJ880E6RgFB0p1YC1w


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on December 04, 2015, 12:07:07 AM
It's been some time since I posted something on this post but I have made some progress on L-8. After adding weight to the engine to have very little effect before making a bow in the plastic frame. I started building a metal frame in my metal shop class, the deck floor made from 14ga sheet steel and members of 16ga will make up the body. I was able to find 12-18 volt motors of off ebay that fit really nice between the wheels. Working directly off my first model and the original loco is makeing this job faster then before. however I am making some improvement from my first model. 


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: uscgtanker on December 16, 2015, 12:12:50 PM
As promised from my last post I have photos to share of my upgrade model of L-8. also I have photos of the original engine and her sister L-9 also at east troy. enjoy

http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/uscgtanker/library/?view=recent&page=1


Title: Re: new scratch building project
Post by: on30gn15 on December 21, 2015, 07:40:24 PM
Did enjoy  :) Electric traction, cool stuff.