I have an Tyco DC 4015 Diesel locomotive. My problem is that the speed in reverse is about 10 x's faster that in forward.
Can anyone help me resolve this problem?
Sadly, going too fast is a function of many Tyco diesel locos.
Quote from: amarzulli on May 20, 2014, 09:40:12 AM
I have an Tyco DC 4015 Diesel locomotive. My problem is that the speed in reverse is about 10 x's faster that in forward.
Can anyone help me resolve this problem?
Buy a decent product, not a low end, very low end Tyco product.
A Bachmann Spectrum for example.
That will solve your problem.
Cheers
Roger T.
actually rpger is not far off the mark. if i recall correctly, tyco used the 4015 number for their "f9" (actually an f7)....bachmann makes an f7 model whose chassis could be made to work with the tyco body.
other than that, some have used cd motors to remotor the tyco drive but that still doesn't cure the problems of only 4 wheel electrical pickup, and requires the complete disassembly of the power truck, milling of the truck frame to accept the larger motor, and seating of the drive gear on the motor shaft. not an easy task, but if you are handy with power tools something to try.
personally, using the bachmann drive under the tyco body is the way i'd go.
Amarzulli,
You have gotten some well-intentioned replies, but none that try to answer your question. Advice that your loco is a piece of junk, or that you should replace it and save the body is not very helpful.
If your loco runs ten times faster in one direction it indicates there is a bind in your mechanism. If your loco uses a worm-gear drive, this problem is often the result of the worm's shaft shifting in relation to the worm gear and causing a bind in one direction. If you can remove the worm support bearing at the end opposite the motor, you might find foreign matter wrapped around the shaft in the support bearing. This will cause the shaft to bind when rotating in one direction, but not in the other.
Disassemble the drive gears as much as you can, and clean it carefully. A small tweezers can be helpful in pulling fibers away from the shaft.
This won't keep your loco from running too fast, but at least it might run just as fast both ways.
Les
tycos do not use a worm drive. the motor and what little reduction gearing they have are self contained in the truck itself. google powertorque and you'll see what i mean. basically, they are similar to the pancake motored bachmann locomotives, except that the motor is much larger. typical tyco powertorque units have this self contained drive truck, which picks up off one rail, wired to a dummy truck on the other end of the locomotive with pickups on the other rail. the body acts as the chassis, and both trucks snap into it. you can actually pull the trucks out of the body, set them on the track, and the power truck will drag the dummy truck around by its wire.
with this description in mind, rich, what would you suggest the op do to solve his problem? there is no binding in the worm because there is no worm, therefore whatever binding is there is probably in the motor itself. there's not alot you can do with these drives. parts are no longer made, and haven't been for about 20 years. any repairs to the power truck by rebuilding in kind wild require a donor unit of similar construction. about the only thing that can be readily done to a powertorque truck is to remove and clean the gears.
all of that assumes the drive in question is a powertorque, and not the earlier but similar mu2 drive. on the mu2, construction is similar, but the trucks are rivited together in a way that makes servicing them next to impossible. you'd have to drill out the rivits without damaging or melting the surrounding plastic just to get inside. then after you are done fixing whatever is wrong, assuming it can be fixe, you have to find a way to fasten everything back together.
people on the tyco forum may be able to help here with advice, but even if fixed, you are probably going to spend alot of time and money on a locomotive with serious design flaws including a tendency of the motors to bind and burn out. replacing the whole drive with one from a bachmann f7 is probably the easiest out.
Jward,
Thanks for the explanation. It has been about 30 years since I have had a Tyco loco. I do remember the self-contained power truck.
In that case, there really isn't much he can do about it. I did have one Tyco loco, a CB&Q GP20. I don't recall any problems with it, so I never was faced with this problem. It did run pretty fast if you weren't careful, but at least it was quiet and smooth.
Les
Thanks to everyone for your tips. The reason I have this Tyco is because it was from when my sons were just children and I have a problem letting go.
Quote from: amarzulli on May 21, 2014, 07:55:45 PM
Thanks to everyone for your tips. The reason I have this Tyco is because it was from when my sons were just children and I have a problem letting go.
amar-
This is a legitimate reason to "throw good money after bad," and go to the effort and expense of converting the loco to DCC. Lots of us, me included, have locomotives or other equipment in which we have a substantial emotional or sentimental investment. There's no reason to ignore this importance, and it wouldn't work anyway. So go ahead and work on your locomotive; you'll enjoy seeing it on your layout even if you only operate it occasionally.
-- D
I disagree with Doc's reasoning and offer this counterpoint Amarz.
If this holds that much sentimental value that it is so difficult to let go of, then who cares if it runs any better? Isn't the reason to keep it then, the sentimental meaning and not the running qualities? If this is the case then keep it as a sentimental token and turn it into a display or turn it into a dummy and keep it somewhere on the track. This way you can "enjoy" seeing it on the track. I say don't invest in making it run better, if you do then that says to me it's not so much about sentiment as it is about making a better running loco, a lost cause in this case, in my view.
And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I have sentiments too and I keep some things as sentiments, but if kept every single solitary item that I could assign sentimental value to, I would run out of home. There are times to let some things go and move on, keep memories, keep pictures; better than to collect clutter. If we all kept everything we could assign sentimental value to, we would all appear on a "hoarder's" reality type TV show (maybe some of us have...) The mental disorder those people have is they can't let go of anything. Don't get me wrong, I am also not accusing anyone of being a hoarder, even those who might have catalogs from the 1980s.
Gotta run, HAWKS/KINGS Game 2 is on. Peace. :)
Sentiment has its place but I tore down this: -
http://greateasternrailway.com (http://greateasternrailway.com)
http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/ (http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/)
So I could build something else.
So you can see why I have little sentiment for old locomotive models.
Cheers
Roger T.
To fix your Tyco locomotive, take a 5lb hammer and one quick blow, and it will run the same speed both directions. Zero.
Now that's funny RAM!
honestly, i can understand the sentimental. my first locomotive was an n scale rapido fa2 in erie colours. even though they are out of place on my layout, i have an a-b set of erie ft's. couldn't resist them.
for me it wouldn't be enough to keep the locomotive sitting on the sidelines, i'd want to see it run. and if it is easier to rebuild "ford tough" with "chevy stuff" as the saying goes, then so be it.
others have been known to put a bowser c630 drive under the tyco super 630 body, with excellent results.
Maybe I am alone in holding this view, but wouldn't rebuilding it, change it from its original form and in turn, change what was supposedly holding the "sentimental value" of it in the first place? Rebuilding it would support my statement that it then is not about sentimentality or memory as opposed to wanting to have a better running locomotive.
actually, it is a way to have both, to keep a sentimental but tired old locomotive in service.
if it were just about having a good running locomotive, you'd just buy a new one and not try to modify the old body to fit.
If the slow running isn't the result of something causing a terminal problem (such as motor burnout) and the real concern is curbing the fast running, why not insert a resistor into the wiring that reduces the current one way but leaves as it is the other. Not sure how that might be done, but someone will know.
Sorry Jeff, I don't see how ripping it's guts out to rebuild it is having "both" since that changes it from the original locomotive that all the sentiment is about. You can have one (the original intact) or the other (the rebuild) but not have both.
I like Skarloey's idea.
You may have to add an extra wire and two diodes as well as a resistor, so the resistor will work only on the direction you need to slow down.
Les
adding the diodes will, in itself, further slow down the already slow direction. the problem here is not so much the top speed, as much as it is finding what is causing the slowdown in the first place, i would be willing to bet that the locomotive draws far more current in the slow direction than the fast one. excess current draw would be a symptom of a bind somewhere in the mechanism, as would the slower speed. as was previously stated, tyco parts are no longer made. which means that to restore the original locomotive to its as built configuration you will need to purchase a donor locomotive, just for a source of parts. you will have to first determine wqhich type of power trucks you have, powertorque or mu2. then you have to determine if the donor unit has the same truck. one small silver lining to this cloud is that tyco powertorque diesel trucks are mechanically the same regardless ot the locomotive. the sd24 and gp20 and all the other locomotives use the same truck, with the only difference between the 4 and 6 axle trucks being the substitution of an idler axle in place of a wheelset in the 4 axle units.
powertorques can be taken apart an the gears cleaned, the older mu2s are factory sealed.
I agree about finding the cause of the slow down and implied as much in my post. Basically, if the slow down is the result of an ongoing issue that is likely to get worse and even fry the motors/destroy the gear train, then obviously that has to be fixed or the engine just kept as it is until it grinds to a halt permanently. On the other hand, if the problem is stable then it can be left as it is and the inconvenience of having such widely differing speeds dealt with by a bit of minor surgery rather than a full scale transplant.
Part of the sentimental value in the loco is, one assumes, not just its appearance but the noise it makes and its little quirks, and a replacement mechanism will change all that.
Quote from: jbrock27 on May 22, 2014, 11:42:50 AM
Maybe I am alone in holding this view, but wouldn't rebuilding it, change it from its original form and in turn, change what was supposedly holding the "sentimental value" of it in the first place?
Jim-
Well, not really or, at least, not necessarily. Putting one's self into something can make that sense of connection even stronger. For example, my ex-wife had a Lincoln rocker which had been in her family for several generations. However, all those generations took time to go by and that time led to well worn upholstery, a couple of loose joints and a finish which was badly worn. So ... she and I undertook a redo.
I knocked the chair all apart, stripped the beat-up existing finish, oiled the old butternut so it glowed and put the thing back together with state-of-the-art plastic resin glue. We found a lovely fabric which looked smashing with the warm wood and used that for the recover. The result was beautiful and she and I both loved it. (Obviously, it was more important that she loved it since it came from her people.)
This rebuild probably lowered the antique value but it greatly enhanced the importance of the share to my ex-wife. Now she had some of herself in the chair and also some of me. What's neat is that she still feels that way, despite our divorce. (This was not your typical acrimonious divorce, more something which resulted from a traumatic health issue which knocked both of us out for a few years.)
-- D
I hear and appreciate what you are saying Doc. But, from the sound of it, it seems your furniture was a quality item to begin with, well constructed and built to last; just in need of a little sprucing. It does not sound like something that came out of K-Mart.
Would you assign the same kind of well-built, quality to a TYCO diesel locomotive from the '70s? (I am guessing the era as The Amazin has not provided that info, just a #, and a GOOGLE search using the available info, leads me to believe it may be)- that would be worthy of the replacement of parts, time, $$, etc? I am not trying to be insensitive, but I still say "no". But also have no horse in this race.
Jim-
I think that, in the last analysis, this is another of the oh-so-common model railroading situation where what one wants to do might be very different from what someone else wants to do, i.e., an opinion or a matter of taste. On that basis, everyone is right whether they would modify a clunker or not.
To answer your question, no, I wouldn't ordinarily put a lot of time and money into an older locomotive. But I can imagine things which might change my mind. For example, I might want to keep an old loco chugging around my layout if it were a favorite of my Dad or one which he and I worked on together. Or I might work on the mechanics of and/or superdetail an old loco if it were one I built as a child and have always been fond of. I certainly agree that such work might be a bad deal financially or it might eat up too much of my modeling time budget. That means I probably wouldn't have undertaken such a project when I was still working, raising kids and wondering when I could get back downstairs to the layout. Now, my wife and I are both retired, we're financially secure to the point that we have more left over from our checks than we ever had years ago, and everybody is educated except for a standing offer to pay for a year of grad school if one of the kids wants to go. So now I have plenty of time and a surplus of income which make it easier to commit to a project which would have been a no way in the past. Too, my wife is very unwilling to travel because she fears that I'm no longer up to traveling or I'll die in Timbuktu or something. So there's more time available at home, not to mention a considerable kitty which is no longer being used.
At the end of the day, It probably comes down to opinion and the nature of what something means to a person.
Oh, by the way ... I didn't tell the rocking chair story because it directly relates to updating or upgrading model trains. the point of the story was that the emotional value of something can be enhanced by working on it or upgrading it. And, while an antique rocker is certainly out of financial scale with any train equipment I have, the process of increasing one's emotional investment in an object by working with it does, I think, apply to the sentimental value of model trains. Just my thought.
-- D
Well said Doc, well said.
I guess what I am having a hard time getting my head wrapped around is when the same subject comes up of updating rolling stock, some of the same proponents of updating this TYCO locomotive are staunch opponents of doing the equivalent to the rolling stock and are advocates of simply replacing the rolling stock with something more modern, for the same reasons that have been given favoring replacement of this TYCO.
I am trying to understand why one situation would warrant that advice and in this instance the opposite advice is being projected. Do people not have sentimental attachment to rolling stock and only locomotives?
Note Re: Using donor parts from another TYCO loco:
Strong potential exists for a donor unit to suffer from the same "quirks/features", leading the fixer back to square one.
Jim-
My guess is that model railroaders have as many reasons for updating or improving their models as they have for being MRs in the first place. Some people like the idea of starting with a sow's ear and ending up with the proverbial silk purse. I believe the rewards for this are in the process, without regard for the economics of the project. Others have emotional motives like we've discussed earlier in this thread. Still others may do a different version of the math.
Many of us would say that you can have a better used or maybe even new model for just a bit more than the cost of an obsolete model, trucks and couplers. Frugal folks or those who are forced to be frugal, like youngsters and people experiencing economically hard times, may feel that they'd rather have a few old models with good trucks and couplers than just one or two newer ones. And, of course, some people just enjoy working on their equipment. So they buy some old Athearn or MDC equipment at a train show, admire the paint jobs (which were generally pretty good), swap out the iffy-even-if-sprung trucks for new ones with metal wheels, pull off the tired couplers so they can be made new, and even scrape off ladders and grabs in order to make new wire ones. I dare say those folks don't see the costs of the new parts as wasted on an old model; rather, they would say that the money they spent for the new parts was spent for their own entertainment, just like the cost of going to a movie. I mean, think of the economics on that activity.
My wife and I met friends for a movie and supper earlier today. We paid $9.50 each for tickets when we could wait a couple of weeks to see the movie on the big screen at home via Netflix or the dish for $4 or $5 for all four of us. And a Coke at home sure costs a lot less than the $4.50 I paid at the theater this afternoon.
The model improvers might see their box car project as worth doing even though they would never to do something similar with an old loco. A loco improvement program, especially if one is starting with an older brass steamer, can cost plenty. First off, even antiquated brass cannot be found in the $2 box at a train show. A handful of lost wax castings costs a ton more than a few grab irons and a photo-etched roof walk. A noisy, jerky old drive system calls for a new can motor, and the good ones can get pretty pricey. The new motor cries out for a flywheel and a gear box, more money there. And a pro paint and weather job will cost $100 or more for those without the skills or equipment to do a first class job themselves. And, now that the loco runs like a Swiss watch, let's add DCC and, why not, sound? Still others will see the cost and work on a loco as worthwhile because they end up with a spectacular model while working on an old reefer just means you have another reefer on the pike. Big deal.
So I guess there are as many reasons for working on less-than-state-of-the-art equipment as there are model rails, or maybe even more.
-- D
Thanks again Doc, but I still like RAM's advice the best in this instance.
Have a Great Memorial Day!