i came across this the other day.....
a while back there was a thread on 4x8 layouts. some complained about the limits of what can be done and i remarked that sometimes you have to think vertically, the layout below illustrates what is possible in HO in a 4x8 space when you think outside the box, or in this case, inside the box.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/Trackplanwithnotes.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/Trackplanwithnotes.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/Westendaccesshatches004.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/Westendaccesshatches004.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/TrackPlan123112.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/TrackPlan123112.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/Northsideaccesshatches005.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/Northsideaccesshatches005.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/CopyofCopyofscannertest25Nov10004.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/CopyofCopyofscannertest25Nov10004.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/Copyofscannertest25Nov10010.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/Copyofscannertest25Nov10010.jpg.html)
Gosh 'J' I haven't been on this forum is quite a while; but had to reply to your post. I have this aversion to 4' x 8' 'standard sheet' (uncut) layout. [My feeling is that little can be done to make them interesting...aside from adding more track...close to impossible in this example.] I've seen some really interesting uses for the good ol' 4x8...by cutting the sheet into various shapes and reassembling it into a varied assembly. Another 'aid' is to run a scenic divider down the layout to limit the sight lines. This layout is a 'standard' 4x8...but taken to the 'n-th' degree. What a clever fellow to have thought up/and built this concept.
I couldn't help noticing some 'rods' that appear to run to the ceiling and are bolted (?) onto the layout itself. Did this layout have the capacity to be raised and lowered? If so, that is a nice piece of engineering. I am assuming that space was a concern...why else have a multi-layered spaghetti bowl?
Thanks for showing us this (nice drill press in the background as well). I don't know when I will 'peruse' the Bachmann forum again; but wanted to 'touch base' on this project...very interesting.
Regards,
Ray
Very clever and very well done, including the varying side windows.
K487
Very creative.
Much more imaginative than your typical and boring tail chasing 4 x 8.
One you can actually operate like a rail railroad, rather than a train set.
Cheers
Roger T.
I agree this is super cool, interesting and a creative concept.
What happens when something needs to be repaired or maintenance needs to be performed that can't be reached from above or through openings? Can the levels be unstacked from each other, or do things just have to be taken apart, such as the panels?
Nice find Mr. Ward, never in my imagination would I have even considered something like that.
Ray,
Yes it raises and lowers... click on the pic and it goes to more pics in his photobucket account.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/Geohan_2008/IM000055.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Geohan_2008/media/IM000055.jpg.html)\
Jerry
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 26, 2014, 02:25:24 PM
I agree this is super cool, interesting and a creative concept.
What happens when something needs to be repaired or maintenance needs to be performed that can't be reached from above or through openings? Can the levels be unstacked from each other, or do things just have to be taken apart, such as the panels?
in the photo jerry posted, you can see the access hole underneath where the owner can pop up for maintainence. note that in the track plan, there are no hidden switches. also, if i understand his construction technique correctly, the framework is an open grid, with plywood only where the tracks go. this provides plenty of room inside the mountains to work. other than the occasional derailment, he should have no serious headaches with this construction.
also note that he's managed to do all of this using standard track components, mostly atlas. this design could balso be adapted to ez track if need be, though probably not in the same footprint. the only major modification that would need to be made is at the entry to the yard, where a long discontinued 22r/18r curved switch is used.
scenery appears to be made from foam insulation board, cut ti fit around the track boards. most interesting is that he's managed to light the lower levels using some kind of low profile lamp which is not visible in the photos.
and yes, roger, this one has some serious operating potential, possibly as a shortline running down the mountain to a mainline railroad on the lowest level. the compact yard and terminal area in some ways reminds me of the pittsburgh & shawmut at brookville, pa.
Very very cool AND well thought out!
I've got to problems with most but not all builders of 4' x 8' layouts.The biggest one is they seem to think more track is better :P and the second is the track just has to run parallel to the edges of the layout.This layout does neither of these and indeed is quite creative.
track running parallel to the edge of the layout also infects larger layouts, as does a tendency to use all that additional space for long straighaways which only serve to decrease the apparent size of the layout. an extreme example was a plan for the rio grande southern which was mostly straight track around the walls. how do you model the mountains of colorado, and specifically the ophir loop, using straight track? that railroad was all curves and grades in real life.....
the layout i have shown appeals to me because like many i do not have alot of space. the deg=signer has come up with an interesting layout in minimal space, with a workable system for stowing it when not in use. not only can it be raised into the ceiling when not in use, the cables can be detatched, and the owner has a bench with casters that it sits on when in use, that can be wheeled into an area with more space. the best part is that the trains and buildings stay in place the whole time, so it's always ready to run.
really well thought out design and construction . Nice looking shop as well . The cable system is a very clever and interesting concept for storage , though I did not see his control panel . John2.
Quote from: Jhanecker2 on June 27, 2014, 08:51:07 PM
really well thought out design and construction . Nice looking shop as well . The cable system is a very clever and interesting concept for storage , though I did not see his control panel . John2.
Control panels went out with the Dodo. Don't need one for DCC.
Cheers
Roger T.
'Just had to stop by this forum to see what other posts there were on a very unique layout design. Apparently this has caught the interest of several folks...for good reason. You guys have sharp eyes as I didn't notice the nonparallel tracks. I also failed to fully appreciate the operational aspects of this design...well done!
However, it was JWards fuller illustration of the hoisting aspect that really blew me away. Guys, there is a lot of engineering in this project...probably far beyond the average 'Joe'. Think of the pulley/winch assembly that has to work exactly the same - every time for the layout to be raised and lowered evenly. Amazing. When you couple that with the 'manhole' in the layout's center for maintenance, this is over the top!
BTW: Check out the tools on the workbench behind the layout. This guy is no 'shade tree mechanic'. Kudos to the builder...you da' Man!!!
Regards,
Ray
Agree the tools on the wall and machinery in the back and foreground were/are likely livelihood items as opposed to 'weekend warrior' stuff.
Quote from: rogertra on June 28, 2014, 12:17:55 AM
Control panels went out with the Dodo. Don't need one for DCC.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger-
Not necessarily true.
People with DC pikes still need control panels and even some folks running DCC do. For example, My grandson has a control panel on the DCC layout I built for him. It controls turnouts and has switches for the various lighting areas of the layout. I had planned to use an EZCommand DCC system for him but feared that its limited power and few function controls would be problematic, so I used separate power for the turnouts but then got an NCE DCC system instead of the EZC. Still, the separate turnout power saved quite a bit of money over DCC turnouts. The track and a majority of the things that move are Bachmann products. I think Bachmann has the best for the money trains for an entry-level model rail. If he sticks with it, his Bachmann trains can move along with him. If he doesn't, it's not a fortune lost.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on June 29, 2014, 11:22:47 PM
Quote from: rogertra on June 28, 2014, 12:17:55 AM
Control panels went out with the Dodo. Don't need one for DCC.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger-
Not necessarily true.
People with DC pikes still need control panels and even some folks running DCC do. For example, My grandson has a control panel on the DCC layout I built for him. It controls turnouts and has switches for the various lighting areas of the layout. I had planned to use an EZCommand DCC system for him but feared that its limited power and few function controls would be problematic, so I used separate power for the turnouts but then got an NCE DCC system instead of the EZC. Still, the separate turnout power saved quite a bit of money over DCC turnouts. The track and a majority of the things that move are Bachmann products. I think Bachmann has the best for the money trains for an entry-level model rail. If he sticks with it, his Bachmann trains can move along with him. If he doesn't, it's not a fortune lost.
-- D
Doneldon
I can see your point. While my old DC GER never had a "control panel" in the conventional sense, it did have one panel at Granville Junction that had a track plan and DPDT switches controlling power to the various sections. However, as all my throttles were walk around plug in throttles, as are my DCC throttles these days, there was never the traditional control panel. i.e., one that had all controls, throttles, block controls, etc., etc., in one central location. You had to walk around the railroad with your train, just as in real life.
Except in staging yards, I do not use switch machines, all my switches are lined by using a home made over centre spring. Just touch the points and the switch is lined for the new direction. For me, more prototypical than using switch machines as my GER is not a CTC dispatched railway so has almost no power operated switches, all are and lined, even out on the main, by hand. Throttles are all walk around. I have six plug in points just for my main yard, that's a 33 foot length. Even if I did use switch machines, I still would not build a "control panel" but would put the activating switch on the fascia opposite the switches location. Control panels for flat yards are not prototypical, unless you're modelling European. :-)
But you know me. Trying to be as prototypical as possible and not a builder of model railroad but the builder of a railroad model and especially not a builder of [gasp] a train set.
Cheers
Roger T.
We ALL know, you've said it ad nauseam.
not sure where he hides the control panel, but the builder mentioned the layout is dc with 14 blocks and 2 cabs so there has to be a control panel somewhere. given the overall level of engineering that went into his design it wouldn't surprise me if he has a portable control panel that attatched to the layout with a computer ribbon cable. those have about 60 conductors, and the small wire size (22-24 guage can be used) is not a factor in dc the way it is in dcc.
I have notice a lively, and interesting, discussion on portable control panels and would like to contribute. For some time I have been a member of the Narrow Gauge Modelling Online forum (...a UK forum) and, while I don't model in narrow gauge or English railways (more's the pity), I have learned a great deal from this website. It can be accessed (although you must join to go further than the 'welcoming' page) at http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php? (http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?)
More to the point is how to reliably connect all those DC block wires (not to mention turnout wiring) each time the protable control panel is attached? Our clever English brothers use various computer plugs. If you remember the days of yore in computers, they used various plugs/sockets to connect printers, disk drives, etc. to the CPU. [You young-ins will have to take my word for this...heck we used to make 'do' with 16 mb.] Those same plugs can be had at Radio Shack and will handle 20+ wires in come cases. Anyway those folks in the exhibition circuit (UK) have to put up, and take down, their layouts on a regular basis. Many of these layouts utilize those aforementioned computer plugs. I am sure there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum that can give us the number of said plugs.
I hope this helps by giving a possible answer to the portable control panel question. Oh, another tip, I learned from that Welsh website was to use plastic binding pieces to hold wiring in place...genius!
Regards to all,
Ray
PS: Jeff, it looks like you have peaked some interest with your thread.
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 30, 2014, 06:30:20 AM
We ALL know, you've said it ad nauseam.
Because I don't play with toy trains! ;)
I'm building a model of a railroad.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: CNE Runner on June 30, 2014, 10:48:52 AM
heck we used to make 'do' with 16 mb
Regards to all,
Ray
Ray-
It was tighter than that! My first home computer, a Trash 80, had 4
KB of RAM which I daringly increased to 16 KB when I installed a real (for the time) keyboard and an on/off indicator light. That wasn't the only difference, either. Programs and data were kept on a cassette recorder (serial so it took lots of time) and there was no provision for a floppy drive for a while. I finally sprang for two DSDD (double-sided, double-density) 5.25" floppies in custom bay in the computer desk I built from scratch because there weren't any computer desks or even plans yet. I think those floppies held 130 KB on each side but they were light years faster to access than the cassette. The first hard drive, which I didn't buy due to cost, held 20 MB and cost $1999, or $100 per megabyte. At that rate, the one TB drive in the laptop I'm using right now would cost $100,000,000. And I haven't checked, but I'd guess the MTBF is many, many times as long as those old drives.
One thing was better though: The economical use of resources. I could do actual word processing on my first computer, without today's mostly unused bells and whistles of course, because programmers did their work so carefully that those limited storage and calculating capacities were optimized. Now everything has millions of lines of code and no one worries about how large programs are or how much data is in a file.
In some ways, computers were more fun then. They were certainly more challenging though not in the frustrating way that they challenge us today. It was reasonable to write one's own programs and it was a real kick to figure out how to accomplish a task with such limited speed and memory. I was very lucky in that regard. I spent Saturday mornings of my senior year of high school (I had a call yesterday about the planning for our 50th anniversary reunion next summer - Wow, did that hurt) playing with what was then the most powerful computer on earth, an IBM System 7090 at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago. There was a program for high school kids who were good at math and I somehow got into it. The best thing I came out of it with was no fear of the machines, unlike so many of my age mates, some of whom are still intimidated by computers.
Well, enough of my stroll down memory lane. Let's play trains!
-- D
Because I don't play with toy trains! ;)
I'm building a model of a railroad.
Cheers
Roger T.
Indeed, so you have clearly stated on enough occasions now, that I don't know what purpose it serves to continually bear such repetition. What would you like for doing so, The Victoria Cross, an MBE? ;)
Doc, obviously, not all of us play with trains...
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 30, 2014, 07:25:20 PM
Because I don't play with toy trains! ;)
I'm building a model of a railroad.
Cheers
Roger T.
Indeed, so you have clearly stated on enough occasions now, that I don't know what purpose it serves to continually bear such repetition. What would you like for doing so, The Victoria Cross, an MBE? ;)
OK, point taken. :-)
However, as a VC is only awarded for bravery in combat, I'll take the MBE. With thanks.
Cheers
Roger T.
Excellent! I will talk with her Majesty!
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 30, 2014, 07:32:32 PM
Excellent! I will talk with her Majesty!
I knew I could count on you. :)
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: rogertra on June 30, 2014, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 30, 2014, 06:30:20 AM
We ALL know, you've said it ad nauseam.
Because I don't play with toy trains! ;)
I'm building a model of a railroad.
Cheers
Roger T.
Hate to disillusion you, but as soon as you turn on the power, you're playing with your toy trains. Granted, they may look more accurate to scale, but unless you are building a 1:1 scale, it's still a toy train. Put away your feeling of superiority and relax. It's just a hobby.
QuoteHate to disillusion you, but as soon as you turn on the power, you're playing with your toy trains. Granted, they may look more accurate to scale, but unless you are building a 1:1 scale, it's still a toy train. Put away your feeling of superiority and relax. It's just a hobby.
Pop's,
Well put.
Jerry
Thanks for the walk down 'Memory Lane' Don. Yes, I remember the 'Trash 80s' and their cassette drives. How about the similar Commodor PET? I went to the 'dark side' and got all my training on Apple products ('funny how the 'dark side' is now the 'bright side'). Anyway things have definitely changed. I wonder how much change will occur in our hobby over the next couple of years?
Back to the thread: I just wrote to a friend in the 'People's Republik of Kalifornia' and he uses RV > auto connectors on his [portable] layout. A quick check through the 2013 RV Accessories catalog showed that these connectors range from 4 to 7 circuits. Our motorhome has a 7-way connector that I would think is too large/heavy for our hobby use (although there are flat connectors that look smaller). I think DCC requires much less in wiring and, therefore, would require a smaller connector.
That being said, any powered turnout controllers would need wiring - from the controller to the panel (assuming you aren't using point decoders). On some layouts that can result in a lot of wires! I guess those previously mentioned computer connections would be the best.
I will try to display my electronics ignorance at our local Radio Shack and see if I can get a part # on those PC connectors.
Regards,
Ray
Quote from: Pops on July 01, 2014, 07:35:24 AM
Quote from: rogertra on June 30, 2014, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 30, 2014, 06:30:20 AM
We ALL know, you've said it ad nauseam.
Because I don't play with toy trains! ;)
I'm building a model of a railroad.
Cheers
Roger T.
Hate to disillusion you, but as soon as you turn on the power, you're playing with your toy trains. Granted, they may look more accurate to scale, but unless you are building a 1:1 scale, it's still a toy train. Put away your feeling of superiority and relax. It's just a hobby.
Did you notice, I put a wink at the end of that comment? Of course we are playing with toy train. Duh!
Cheers
Roger T.
on my own layouts which have been sectional, i used radio shack connectors whih are available in up to 12 conductors in both male and female. you solder your wires into the plugs, then insert them into the plastic connectors. in doing so, it is a good idea to reverse one or more of the plugs if you use more than one set of connectors. that way, each set of connectors will have a unique setup of plugs, and it will be immpossible to accidentally connect the wrong connectors together.
Jeff, do you have the ability to post a picture of what you are referring to? I would like to know what you are recommending but cannot get a picture in my head based on the description. Thank you.
Jbrock : Having worked as a Q.C. inspector for nineteen years for a connector manufacturer . What jward is describing is the ability of some connectors to accept either pins or sockets in the connectors . that is one way of making unique connectors . One can also change which side is male or female . There are many methods by which connectors can be varied . John2.
Jeff and Jim-
You can also paint the plugs or number them to help get the right things connected. However, those Shack connectors are kind of expensive for what you get and they're not really top quality. For a limited connections, such as what you need to connect modules together, you can also vary the kind of plug. For example, I made a yard office for my friend's N-scale layout. It has sound in it which is keyed to one of his steam engines and rather elaborate lighting. I used crimp on connectors throughout. There are blue spade connectors for the sound which connects to his DCC buss and pin connectors which connect to his lighting circuit. This keeps him from hooking the lights up to his DCC and conversely. In order to keep him from getting the polarity wrong, each pair (spades and plugs) has both male and female plugs reversed. It can't be done wrong, even when asleep.
-- D
jbrock
here are the links to the items on radio shack's site:
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265807w345.jpg
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265753t98.jpg
Jim,
To add to Jeff's reference, if you have several blocks or just to separate the blocks from let's say your turnout's then you could reverse the plugs so as not to plug into the wrong plug. On the layout have blocks with the male prongs nad the turnouts with the female prongs and you have a set up with no guess work ;D.
Jerry
JH2, Doc and Jerry, thank you for your help and replies. I understood the concept of what JW was describing, I just could not picture the product he was referring to in order to implement it. Jeff, thank you for the links and images, perfect. It is what I think of or would refer to, as a 'wire harness' that can only be plugged together in one way.
I did some Internet 'surfing' and came up with a couple of options for connecting multiple wires between modules - or from the layout to a portable (detachable) panel. [DISCLAIMER: I know virtually nothing about electronics. Living near Huntsville, AL one is surrounded by a seemingly endless number of 'rocket scientists'. I made the mistake of asking a neighbor about our shared problem this morning...this is what I understood from the conversation (most of it went 'way over my head).]
My neighbor said that connectors should be 'matched' to the task as hand. There are many, many connectors that will do what we have been talking about on this forum. [...and no, he won't 'liberate' any from NASA.] I have listed those connectors (that I remembered) below. Please note that each of these comes in a variety of sizes...depending upon the number of separate wires that can be connected:
VGA connectors
Cat5 or 6 connectors
DIN connectors
Parallel Port connectors - DB series
This is all 'Greek' (or was that 'geek'?) to me; so let the reader beware. I searched for 'parallel connectors' and came across some on eBay. The URL is http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_nkw=Parallel+Port+Connector+DB25+DB-25+25-Pin+Adapter+Male+DIY+Good+Quality+NEW (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_nkw=Parallel+Port+Connector+DB25+DB-25+25-Pin+Adapter+Male+DIY+Good+Quality+NEW) I wold love to show a picture, but I no longer use my Photobucket account.
I do not know the size limit on these connectors; but some research will reveal that fact. We used to have an electronics supply house in Huntsville (Mock Electronics) that stocked EVERYTHING. Unfortunately they decided to retire and close the business. Parallel connectors seem to be readily available on line however.
I hope this helps (personally I use Blue Point turnout controllers and don't have to worry about such things). Good hunting!
Regards,
Ray
Thank you Ray.
Checkout the website of a Company called newark electronics they are a distributer of electrical and electronic equipment . John2.
I will John, thank you.
Have you ever come across a similar outfit on the web, called MCM Electronics? They often have promotions and sales as well as discounts and reductions on shipping costs.
i think for model railroad use the determining factor should be the current carrying capacity of the connectors. this is often expressed in either amps at a certain voltage or voltamps. this is especially important with dcc, which has a much higher current draw than dc due to track power being on the rails at all locations at all times (unless you've isolated sections you can turn off.)
voltamps is current in amps times the expected voltage. when calculating this figure, look for connectior rated well in excess of your figure. it is NEVER a good idea to operate electrical components at or near their rated capacity.
Jeff,
Quotehen calculating this figure, look for connectior rated well in excess of your figure. it is NEVER a good idea to operate electrical components at or near their rated capacity.
Great point as I have seen automotive connectors melt due to overload.
Jerry
Good catch on your advice about checking the current capacity of any connector Jeff. I would strongly advise any of us 'less than electronically informed' hobbyists to ask someone knowledgeable - BEFORE purchasing/installing any electronic equipment. Judging from the several UK forums I occasionally view, these parallel connectors are frequently used in the exhibition circuit (...however that does not mean they are appropriate in every application).
Regarding dealing with electronics vendors: Several years ago I had occasion to purchase a dozen SPDT - center OFF toggle switches. I found a good price on the Internet and ordered using my credit card (...with the assumption that the company was based in NY). The next credit card billing cycle, I discovered I had reserved some rooms at a very nice hotel in London, UK. [I went on the hotel's website and can attest that this was a very nice hotel.] In addition to this charge, there were other charges in Taiwan.
A call to Chase (they were fantastic) put a halt to the transactions and a cancellation of that credit card (with no charge to me). I did receive a bill from that hotel, in the UK, and decided to call their billing department. This hotel was extremely helpful and said to disregard any further bills from them (it helped that the person I talked to was a model railroader). My point is be very wary of purchasing items directly from overseas - without previous knowledge of the vendor. [Incidentally I did receive the toggle switches I had ordered!!]
In closing, I suggest you use eBay/PayPal to do any foreign purchases. In fairness, I am obliged to say that I frequently deal with vendors in the UK (E. Hatton's, Langley Model Works among others) and have never had a problem (sometimes the shipping is cheaper, and faster, than it is in the States). Be cautious and aware.
Regards,
Ray
Agree. As I have said here several times before, more consumer protections are available when making purchases through using a CREDIT (not DEBIT) card.
Re: Not understanding the carrying capacity of wires, etc, all I can say is stupid is as stupid does....
Electrical load.
We are dealing here with less than 14 VAC at only 5 amps or so.
Don't you think we are going a little overboard on this wire and connector thing? You're not dealing with house current.
Trailer connectors, for brake lights, tail lights and turn signals are more than suitable for connecting model railroad sections together, there's no need to go overboard.
The way this is going you'd think we were dealing with power transmission lines. This is definitely being over thought. :-)
Cheers
Roger T.
Agree :)
better to be overthought than underthought. if you doubt that, open the hood of your car and try to work on it. some models require the removal of motor mounts to change spark plugs.
Speaking of cars, did you get yours fixed?
Ah, automobiles. Do you remember the day when you could open the hood (bonnet for our UK friends) and actually see the ground?
Ray
Yes and while not a big dude, I could just about fit myself between 1 side of my engine and the nearest fender of my first car.
Thankfully, many new cars today do not need to have the spark plugs replaced until about 100K miles.
Quote from: jbrock27 on July 04, 2014, 06:19:27 PM
Speaking of cars, did you get yours fixed?
still trying. fix one thing another breaks. if this keeps up there will be no road trips this summer.
Quoteif this keeps up there will be no road trips this summer.
Right now as hot as it is here in Lousyana I think the car will melt if I went anywhere ;D,
Jerry
Mr. Jeff, my Scottish brother, is this perhaps a case of good money after bad as well as time and effort not well spent and therefore time for a change of transportation?
Jerry, I thought most of the folks down your way, stay in air conditioning anyway and therefore don't know what is going out outside.
I guess someone forgot to tell me that part ???. Just spent 5 hours cutting the in-laws lawn.
Someone should get a tractor and save you some time. I was cutting the lawn too, but it did not take me that long...
I have a tractor but their lawn is 3 plus acres. :P
...then a bigger tractor is needed
What size tractor are we talking about here?
Quote from: jbrock27 on July 05, 2014, 03:35:41 PM
Mr. Jeff, my Scottish brother, is this perhaps a case of good money after bad as well as time and effort not well spent and therefore time for a change of transportation?
even with the time and effort i am spending on the car it is still cheaper than buying another. i own it outright. if i had to make a car payment and carry full insurance there'd be nothing left for gas!
Quote from: jbrock27 on July 05, 2014, 03:59:12 PM
...then a bigger tractor is needed
What size tractor are we talking about here?
I have a John Deere 48" cut for my yard and use it to cut his. Justin wants to help just have to teach him. ::)
Jeff I'm going thru the same with the wife's Suburban. I am on vacation this week and have to put a water pump on it. Some vacation.
Jerry
Gentlemen : I have the same problems myself here at the farm . All mechanical "toys" require maintenance on a regular basis . It takes me eight hours to do the mowing that I can do from the riding mowers and then much more to do the detail stuff that I don't always get the time to do. Lord , I need Lottery Money so that I can hire Staff. Jojn2.
I hear what you are saying fellas about the motor vehicles and I understand as one who tends to hold onto a vehicle just past the point it should have been replaced. But, I suggest that one is no better off continuing to work on an old car to keep it on the road, that everyweekend requires a trip to PEP BOYS, AUTO ZONE, NAPA, CARQUEST, whatever place you frequent bc in the end, you are pumping repair $$ in place of a payment and it becomes a weekend event. Not to mention, in the end, what are you left with?-an old car, that will have something fail next weekend. This does not even account for time spent working on a clunker. I for one, have learned I have better things to do. And keep in mind, you don't have to buy a brand new car to get a good car these days, you can get one a few years old, used and still do better than holding on to a constant h/a. Jeff, I have to imagine by you, they use salt on the roads in winter (no so in Jerry's neighborhood). This does not age a car well, despite replacing new working parts in it.
Re: Suburbran-putting gas in it is like having a car payment :D
John, maybe time to sublet some farmland to a farmer to grow crops and reduce the acerage you have to
maintain ???
Jerry that's a great size for cutting residentail, but man, 5 hours is still way toooooo loooooong to be cutting grass. It is good J-Dog wants to help. Maybe he can take over for you soon and it can be his 5 hours :D
Quote from: Jerrys HO on July 05, 2014, 04:26:31 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on July 05, 2014, 03:59:12 PM
...then a bigger tractor is needed
What size tractor are we talking about here?
I have a John Deere 48" cut for my yard and use it to cut his. Justin wants to help just have to teach him. ::)
Jeff I'm going thru the same with the wife's Suburban. I am on vacation this week and have to put a water pump on it. Some vacation.
Jerry
replacing a water pump s relatively easy. I had to replace a radiator in 15 degree weather with wind so strong it lifted the hood off the support rod and slammed it down. luckily I wasn't under the hood when it happened. I've also had to replace a brake line, water pump and a wheel bearing.
Quotereplacing a water pump s relatively easy
You are correct Jeff. I am an auto mechanic by trade so it does help to keep the older ones running like clockwork. Wow did I say clockwork, I meant just running.
With so much corn syrup in our fuels if you don't have an eco friendly car it will never run like a Swiss.
Just did not want to work while I was on vacation.
Jerry
I still think it is more of a case, when a car gets to be that age/stage, of keeping it running for "another week" until something else fails and needs fixing or replacing. And in all that time, the car and us, are not getting any newer...
actually it's more a case of living in a country where I work ever harder and my pay gets ever smaller.
Amen to that my brother!
Quote from: jward on July 06, 2014, 08:02:35 AM
actually it's more a case of living in a country where I work ever harder and my pay gets ever smaller.
Truer words ever spoken....
Plus trying to put 2 through college and 1 in private school. :'(
Oldest graduated Tulane this year, going back for 2 more years. Middle child still has 2 to go, youngest has 5 more till college ( if I can afford it by then) and want's to go to Notre Dame where most of my wife's family went or goes :P.
Jerry
Jbrock27 : Good suggestion we already have had 18 acres under cultivation rented out to a local farmer since 1990 . I just mow the close in stuff near the compound . Have to be able to get to the buildings, the orchard , the vineyard and keep the easement cleared . County life is labor intensive but quiet , Union Pacific not withstanding. John2.
After living both, agree that country life is the way to go :)
Quote from: jward on July 06, 2014, 08:02:35 AM
actually it's more a case of living in a country where I work ever harder and my pay gets ever smaller.
Jeff-
This is all too true. Our salaries actually did go up but what the money could buy went down. I had nothing but so-called cost of living adjustments the last 15 years I worked because I was at the top of my range. I wasn't hurting because that scale was a good one, but I certainly noticed that the money in my pocket wasn't increasing like it did when I got both COL and merit pay. And workers have no choice but to increase their work effort. If they don't, they'll be replaced by someone else who will.
The sad fact is, average working people today have the same buying power as they had in 1985. In vivid contrast, look at the increase in the well-to-do class's income, and especially their wealth. Ninety-five percent of the growth of "wealth" during the recovery from the 2008 Great Recession went to the upper one percent of people. The wealthiest 200 Americans saw their combined wealth increase by a total of $120,000,000,000. That's an average of $600,000,000 each. Did most of that money go into job creation? Well, I haven't seen any evidence of it.
-- D
1985 was a bad time for those of us west pa. it was the year I moved to Pittsburgh from the country. where the unemployment rate (15%) was half where I grew up. the current economic turmoil is childs play compared to what we went through here in the 1980s when the steel mills shut down. and yes, it seems like I am no farther ahead than I was back then. all I know is that I need to work a minimum of 45 hours a week just to keep my head above water.