So I am already thinking about my Christmas village I created last year and decided upon completion I didn't like the Diesel looking locomotive I had used. My question to you is ..... Do you know a brand name or model or what ever you may call it for a HO scale Steam locomotive that actually emits Steam (vapor) and whistles? and doesn't cost a fortune? Is there such a thing? If not is there one that just steams or just whistles? I don't need track or cars just a cute little steam engine putting around my village. This village is not up all year so the money spent for an engine needs to be low. As always the help I get from you all is exceptional so thanks in advance. Oh I don't need a brand new one of these, a used working one is fine. Anyone have one for sale or are we not to ask about selling stuff on this forum?
Bachmann has one HO that smokes. Check the online catalogue.
Never heard of any HO scale that emits steam, vapour.
You would have to add a sound decoder for whistle sound, not easy to do for this type loco.
Expect to pay around $100 for speaker and decoder. Less if you go with cheap decoder.
You might try asking in the trains.com website.
Bachmann forums are mostly for Bachmann products.
Rich
Martha-
I would look for a loco with sound rather than "steam." Model steam (smoke) leaves a lot to be desired in terms of how it looks and what it does to the appearance of its loco, track and trackside scenery over time. There are a couple of models, Marklin has one if I remember correctly, with great smoke but they are outrageously expensive compared to, for example, Bachmann's Christmas merchandise, and they will still mess up the loco and its surroundings.
Most manufacturers offer holiday locos and train sets. You can see several at Walthers trains on the Inet, or just search for Christmas model trains. Bachmann's is very nice and has the (I know we're not supposed to use this word in regards to our trains) cute look that really adds to a Christmas village. However, it sees to me that most Christmas Villages are actually O-scale (1:48 proportion), not HO (1:87 proportion). That means you would need an On2.5 (AKA On30) train for it to be in the right size proportion. This means you would be running a train which is a 1:48 size reduction on HO track (1:87), making the train a narrow gauge train. And that works well for holiday set-ups because narrow gauge has a certain funky look which can be charming.
You can easily make the determine for sure which you have. The people on an HO layout are about 3/4" - 7/8" tall, so doors should be around an inch tall. If you have an O-scale set-up, figures will be about 1.5" tall and doors nearly 2" tall. Now there's nothing to prevent you from running HO trains with your O-scale village except that they will be a bit small. This would be a major issue for a modeler but much less of an issue for a holiday village kind of thing because it is the feeling you are trying to elicit, not the appearance of a miniature working railroad. There are lots of On30 trains around -- Bachmann makes some fine models -- but they cost much more than HO trains.
Back to sound: There are some small, hand-held and -operated devices which make a few train noises and might suit your need for a whistle. They regularly show up on eBay. Typically, they make a steam whistle sound, a bell, a rather poor example of the clickety-clack of a running train and some verbal think like "All aboard" or "Merry Christmas." I won't try to tell you they emit outstanding sound but they are great for a casual holiday village or for children.
Good luck with your project. A train and village around a Christmas tree, or by itself on a table, can become a treasured part of Christmas and a real touchstone for children. I made an embroidered and appliqued tree skirt many years ago with a North Pole mail station, Santa, steam engine, flat car with sleigh full of toys, reindeer in the caboose and so on. It is a big part of Christmas now, especially for the grandchildren. We usually have a large scale steam train with all kinds of lights and animation set up on it which, unfortunately, detracts from the tree skirt, but the little ones love that, too.
Happy Holidays!
-- D
Doc, I think you should provide Martha with some numbers on what the costs would be.
See this is why I come to the Bachmann forum site. Thoughtful, smart people who aren't condescending to someone who doesn't know much about trains, scales, layouts, terminology, etc etc. I am royally kicking myself in you know where since last December for not buying what appeared to be a steam locomotive with the coal car for 15 dollars at thrift store! When I say steam locomotive, I mean the old fashion looking ones, black with smoke stack, many wheels along the sides of it. I just wasn't sure if it was HO Scale. no one there had a clue and I just was short on funds and spending 15 dollars on something I couldn't use well...... I didn't buy it. So now I have great ideas from you all to look into. My scale of the layout to HO to people to anything is a mix match of stuff. When it is all done and set up it gives me pleasure to watch it, I am sure it would make a true model railroaders hair stand on end seeing it out of scale. And I mean that in the nicest sense of the word. I might be wrong on this next assumption, planning, building, setting up, tweaking this and that basically building your layout is the more enjoyable part than just turning on power and have a train and cars going around a track. The setting up, building, planning my village is what keeps me doing it. Yes cute to see the train going around but it will be cuter once I track down and buy Sound affects as suggested and maybe not worrying if there is steam (smoke, some form of vapor) coming out of the trains smoke stack. I am already daydreaming of what can I add to it this year. I am so limited on space to set this up. the only way I can go is up and I may just figure out how to make maybe a long winding road up to the top of a mountain or something like that not for the train to go up but maybe more houses and people. This simple village of mine is so addicting when it's time to get it out and set it up, I am pretty sure by Oct 1 I will have pulled it out and started on setting it up this year. I can only imagine how addictive (in a good way) model railroading is. Oh boy there is so many things to do with it, really cool stuff and well its one of those things a few people can understand the intense interest it can create. As for the remark of a keepsake, I hope my grandchildren will get to see it one day. They live on the east coast, I'm on the west coast. They get to see videos of it now and love it. I know I will be back to the forum as last year I still had power issues but just lived with it. I will be asking how to bring direct power to each track section I believe that is what I need to do, it slows on some sections and then goes faster on others. It is old brass colored mixed in with some flex track that's silver color. Well I have taken up enough of your time. I will go look into all your great suggestions. I will be back with updates. OH one more question. Suggestions or recommendations for the most inexpensive table type scroll saw or band saw. I do many other crafts that I think I could use one. It would be for cutting thin wood or maybe plastics, really not for sure what all I would cut but I want to cut shapes not just chop wood off. Something that I can use different blades for cutting wood, tin, aluminum. etc. I have no work shop. my dining room table is it! and my office desk Mon-Fri. and where I eat occasionally if crafts or the office use hasn't taken over. So small table topper is what I need. Thanks again! Martha
Martha, I watched your video of you table layout with all the lights and structures and scenery-looks like great fun! Yes indeed, model railroading IS addicting.
Do not fret over the locomotive and the $15. There is a very good chance you would have just thrown away $15 in that kind of situation where no one could tell about the loco or whether it ran or not. I suggest, in the event an opportunity like that arises again, that you have with you a 9 volt battery and 2 pieces of wire (preferably with alligator clips at one end at least so that each one can be clipped to the terminals on the battery). This way, should you come across a locomotive you like in that kind of scenario: thrift shop, tag sale, flea market, etc, where no one can tell you anything about it, you can at least test the locomotive by attaching a wire to each terminal on the battery and touching each wire to the opposite wheels of the locomotive. This will tell you at least if it runs or not.
In regards to your track and loss of power in places-I remember last year, that you bought some new rail joiners. Are all the rail joiners you have used to join the track, new? I ask in the event the trouble spots are places where you have used old joiners-they get loose from reuse. I would recommend soldering, but if I further remember correctly, you are not entirely comfortable with soldering. If what I am guessing is true, maybe be time for additional new joiners.
In regards to scroll saws, I love a CRAFTSMAN one I bought about 14 years ago. It may be more expensive than one available through a place like Harbor Freight, but when I buy tools, I buy them with the idea that I will also be using them around the house, not just for the trains and for more than one or two times. Different blades for different purposes are inexpensive and are available in packs. Depending on other things you may or may not use the scroll saw for, you may want to do some cost comparisons and weigh how much you will be using the tool. Just keep in mind, more often than not, you get what you are paying for. Good luck, in everything!
Martha-
Based on what you said about your needs for a saw, I think a scroll- saw or jig-saw would suit your needs better than a band saw. Band saws are more suited to production work and tasks like resawing wood (sawing already rather thin stock into even thinner stock). A jig- or scroll-saw is ideal for craft work as it makes cutting delicate shapes pretty easy. The better style is the table version. Hand held, portable jig saws are very useful tools but they don't give the kind of fine control you would be likely to need in craft work. jbrock's suggestion of a Craftsman saw is an excellent one. Craftsman tools are among the bet available unless you want to go into seriously professional and seriously expensive ones. In the case of a jig- or scroll-saw, quality is very important. You want something which will have the control and precision which is only available on quality tools. You can get away with a less expensive tool if it's something like a drill because the results of using a drill are mainly dependent on the skills of the user. With a jig saw, even a top level worker needs quality to get quality.
That said, I have a Craftsman corded drill and a high-level Makita battery drill and I have to say, I don't at all regret having purchased those tools, even though I paid a lot more than I had to. A friend's father once told me "you'll appreciate the quality long after you've forgotten the price," and I have found that to be absolutely true.
Another piece of information: HO rails are approximately 5/8" apart. Rails about half that distance are N-scale (1:60) and rails a little over an inch wide are O-gauge (1:48). Those rough sizes will allow you to easily tell different scales of track and trains apart. There is one exception, On2.5 or On30. That's the narrow gauge O-scale (1:48) train which runs on HO track. There were many narrow gauge railroads years ago but only tourist railroads still run on narrow gauge. The very thing that caused people to build narrow gauge railroads (tight curves, nutsy hills and lower cost) means that the funky equipment used on narrow gauge railroads has an innate charm which makes for a terrific Christmas tree set up. As I mentioned before, however, On30 trains are much more expensive than HO and even O. Be aware, however, that this merchandise is always heavily discounted. eBay is a great place to find such items and prices should be near their lowest now when here isn't so much demand. A good seller there is the Favorite Spot. You can also find many online stores if you do a Google search like "buy model trains" or more specific like "Christmas model train," or "HO Christmas train."
-- D
some thoughts on your locomotive.....
your chances of finding a decent locomotive in a thrift store are very slim. you'd probably wind up with a 30 year old train set quality locomotive that hasn't been maintained and may not even run. even if it did, the quality would still be low. you'd probably experience erratic running, possibly binds in the side rods and a whole host of other problems.
the best bet would be to look into buying something new. for a basic steam engine, I am impressed by Bachmann's usra 0-6-0. the two I have are good runners, and can pull a reasonable number of cars on the sharp turns and steep grades of my layout. I believe mine, both of which came in train sets I purchased at hobby lobby for under $100, have smoke generators though I never use the smoke feature. the "smoke fluid" is actually an oil which smokes when heated, and the smoke tends to cause dirty track.
sound will cost a bit more, but can still be had fairly cheap if you know where to look. my recommendation is the Bachmann, alco 2-6-0, a sound value locomotive. I picked mine up online a couple years back for about $100 but they may be a little more expensive now. this is a small steamer that will handle the 18r curves that are a standard in train sets. it looks good and sounds great. this engine is dcc equipped, so you may want to look into an inexpensive dcc system to access all of the programmed sounds.
both of these engines are smooth runners, which have caused me very little trouble in the two or so years I've had them. to me, they are well worth what I paid for them.
While I agree w/Mr. Ward's point about buying a new locomotive (see the ending of my last post about getting what you pay for) and his point about the lessor possibility of finding a quality locomotive at a thrift store, flea market, tag sale, etc, I would like to point out that finding such a locomotive in that kind of setting is not impossible. It can and does happen. Therefore the effort to look in such places (in addition to other places) should not be diminished. The very worst that happens is you spend $15 and while it runs (see my above test suggestion), it may turn out to be toy train junk (this assumes that you are not able to identify locos as such-perhaps this assumption should not be made??-this is where doing some research ahead of time, pays off, no matter where you end up shopping, if you have not been doing some research already). The best that happens is you hit a home run, getting a great loco for a great price.
If the size of your layout that you have in your video is going to stay the same, then you may want to consider how necessary it is for you to have a locomotive that can pull a great many cars, as this may not be necessary for what you have to run the loco on.
Some folks have the time, some folks have the resources, some folks have both and still more have one or the other.
To Martha : Make sure your scroll saw has variable speed adjustment , 5 inch blade length is the current standard and will allow you to saw thicker stock . Blades do come in various sizes & materials to make some jobs easier . Tiltable tables make some types of cuts easier too. John2.
Martha-
While I agree with Jeff that the Bachmann 2-6-0 is a good candidate for your holiday layout, you don't need to invest in DCC. All of the B'man's DCC decoders are dual mode meaning they will run on either DCC or conventional DC. Your ability to control sounds under DC will be limited but not to the point that it will be a major disappointment. Running on DC will let you continue with your present power supply which will save much more than the loco's price compared to even the most elementary DCC system.
-- D
In some cases when you have limited funds and/or resources, it is not always possible to get what we want. Luckily we all have something for such a scenario, our imagination. We already use it to an extent in any model railroad, so it couldn't hurt to use it a bit more to picture the smoke and hear the whistle.
On the Bachmann online store the cheapest locomotive with sound is $235
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/51808.jpg)
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_276_621&products_id=4604 (http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_276_621&products_id=4604)
Even through various online retailers the locomotive still sells for $180-200 on average, granted if you look long enough and are at the right place at the right time you might be able to get one for only $150. Unfortunately for the OP this locomotive does not have smoke and installing it would not be easy for someone starting out.
Also if the OP wants a whistle, the 2-6-0 will require programming with a DCC system to make it sound in certain predetermined scenarios as desired by the OP. Or if the OP desires the ability to sound it at will then the purchase of a DCC system for an additional $100-$150 will be required.
As we all know a locomotive meeting the exact wishes of the OP exists, although not made by Bachmann, one such company that produces locomotives with sound and smoke is MTH among others but I don't think the OP is willing to pay $600 for obvious reasons. And you would still need a DCC or DCS controller to sound the whistle on demand.
I guess the moral of the story is that model railroading is not a cheap hobby and that we sometimes have to make concessions. I would suggest that the OP purchase a Bachmann 0-6-0 as it is a very good option for their needs and has a smoke unit as desired. As far as the sound goes, having a locomotive with sound is likely cost prohibitive, but Bachmann produces or used to produce a warehouse with a steam whistle enclosed. It is available for only about $30 and allows the OP to sound the whistle as desired and is very budget friendly and can be used with any steam locomotive and does not require any technical knowledge or skill unlike DCC sound options.
(http://www2.gpmd.com/imagel/b/lbacu5018.jpg)
Okay so I am extremely excited and hope to continue that excitement once my new "baby arrives. Its' a Bachmann Rio Grande 2-6-2 Steam locomotive and tender car. I found one on ebay, new unused, unopened, still in the box. it has lights and smokes and comes with smoke oil. jez I won't sleep until it gets here! once I know it's shipped I will be dragging my layout out of storage to get ready for the new "baby". I hope it is all I hope it will be. I don't know what the 2-6-2 means so maybe someone can enlighten me. I paid under fifty dollars so I hope that was a good price. If it doesn't work well it doesn't work. I don't remember if all my rail joiners were replaced with the new ones I bought last year and thanks for reminding me to check that. that could very well be the problem. I also noticed last year I had to shimmy and tweek the lay out so the loco would keep going and not stop. Is there a reason I had to do that? I don't have a grade so to speak for it to climb. just has to go over a low "bridge" I put in. To be honest I think I was so disappointed I had bought a diesel loco to begin with and then tried to "fit it in" with a village that is not of the diesel age. Hey live and learn. I have a grand son who has been fascinated with trains since he was 2 so maybe he will get my extra unused stuff. He's five now maybe not quite the age yet to actually set up something instead of just pretending they are running on rails. I certainly have enough "stuff" boxed up I won't use. He lives 2700 miles.
Now any suggestions or tips for using the oil to make smoke? Does the oil go "bad" from sitting around? Can any oil be used. My mind is thinking the candle type oil, scented. Yes I am female and think the jasmine or honeysuckle oil just might be nice, or for Christmas the cinnamon or pine scented but I don't want to screw up the loco so????? Oh I saw someone on youtube demonstrating there Bachmann that smokes with the oil and she was saying you had to run the engine at full speed to get it to work? Even as a novice I couldn't understand why? I thought maybe the oil just has to heat up to work? So any tips on that part.
Now on to sound. I have found on line 3 different approaches (not sure if that is the right wordage) to get me some sound to this new layout. First one Modeltronics Sounds for Locomotive "stack talk" light unit. It's on ebay for 9.99 free shipping. Next. Steam train sound music module, its a small plastic device you can choose many variations to produce train sounds. It is 9.99 free shipping. Last is the big guns MRC sound station 312 model railroad sound. 9.99 plus 15.50 shipping. the last one seems to be a bit over kill for what I am doing. a few months out of the year creating train sounds. Any suggestions?
Since I have very few visitors at Christmas, family 2700 miles away. I basically do this for my enjoyment. I don't have a problem when I power up my train to switch on a little box to make sound. Heck I am considering recording steam locomotive sounds on youtube and just playing it back.
Okay went on long enough. oh great just got a ebay notice the Bachmann Jupiter I was watching is only ten bucks and auction is ending soon. Okay no more Ebay looking for me!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks all to you for your advice and support. oh crap, thought I heard my mailman delivering my Bachmann Rio Grande! False alarm.
Waiting can make one anxious can't it! The 2-6-2 means that it is a locomotive with 2 leading wheels (in front of the drivers) 6 drive wheels, and 2 trailing wheels. so 5 axles. the locomotive you ordered is essentially the 0-6-0 mentioned earlier with two trucks attacked. the 2-6-0 is a different model. Anyway, the smoke oil should be fine. From what i hear, Smoke oil is actually watered down Glycerin (a sugar based alcohol) But I don't know for sure.
The "shimmying" you referred to Marty could be from the joiners being loose.
In regards to using the smoke: I have only ever seen it posted here, that the advise is against using it, bc the residue from the smoke dirties the track and layout quickly. I am happy for your excitement over the loco. Best of luck with it!
I think that Martha should think about how to keep the track clean because that smoke oil does leave a residue.
I wish her luck with her Christmas layout (Christmas? I just put away the 4th of July bunting I display on my front deck!)
Martha-
I'm delighted to hear that you ordered a 2-6-2 and are excited about receiving it. The 2-6-2, or "Prairie" locomotive is my favorite, with the 2-8-2 "Mikado" a close second. The Prairie was, in some ways, an unfortunate design. It was immensely popular because it was one of the first locomotives with both a pilot truck (the first 2) and a trailing or pony truck (the last 2). Prairies did good work with both freight and passenger trains, meaning they could pull hard and they could pull fast. The front truck allowed the loco to track smoothly, making for a comfortable ride and reduced damage to both loco and track; the rear truck allowed a larger firebox which meant more heat which meant more steam which meant more power. The unfortunate part was timing. Steam locomotive engineering (design, not operation) made several rapid advances just as Prairies were being put out. This was the shift to the so-called "super steam" era and it meant that Prairies popularity and versatility were quickly overshadowed. They continued to run for decades, but only in local service, on branch lines and on smaller railroads.
Still, you'll have a handsome and versatile steamer. The front coupler on the Bachmann Prairie is for looks only but that shouldn't be a problem for the railroad you're running. Enjoy your new motive power!
Regarding the scented oil for the smoker: I'm already on record as strongly discouraging you from using the smoker so I won't go into that big explanation, but I will say that I don't think scented oil will work in the smoke unit. The reason is that scented oil is formulated not to produce visible smoke. Thus, you may get the scent but there won't be anything to see. The smoke is pretty wispy, at best, and even then only when the locomotive is running at high speed (equals high voltage). Smoke fluid is a mixture of mineral oil and glycerin which is why there is a visible vapor. I suppose you could try to blend in a little scented lamp oil (this has kerosene which is more flammable than smoke fluid) but I urge you to generate your olfactory effects with an appliance designed for that purpose. Scented oil in the loco's smoker might be a fire hazard.
Now, sound. You don't ant the Modeltronics item you mentioned because the "Stack Talk" you mentioned is the name of a product line, not a sound generator. The item you described is actually a locomotive light circuit which is part of the Stack Talk line. I'm not familiar with the steam train music module so I can't comment on it. On the other hand, the MRC Sound Station is an excellent product and the current eBay prices are truly excellent. I believe you will be happiest with this, even though it will cost more than $10 or $15. A low-price alternative to the MRC 312 would be one of the battery-powered New Brite train stations (most or all are Christmassy). They are available on eBay for not a whole lot. (See http://www.ebay.com/itm/111440492161?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT for example at about $18 if no one else bids.) My last idea is a good one but I don't know if it's still a possibility. Several years ago I purchased a half dozen little sound gizmos which made whistle, bell, chug-chug and "All aboard!" sounds. They were hand held and cost about $5.95. I found them at a sort-of train store, meaning it was geared to the Thomas the Tank Engine set much, much more than serious model railroaders. I don't know if these things are still around. I haven't seen them for quite some time but then I haven't been on the lookout for them, either.
As for the shimmying and irregular performance, I'll bet you have one or more of three problems. One, your rails might not be tightly connected, especially if the track sections have been assembled and disassembled several times. Rail joiners can get a little loose and sometimes a rail is on top of a joiner, not actually in it. The fix is to double check track joints and section alignment. You might need to replace loose rail joiners (tightening them has never worked for me) and/or add a tiny bit of conductive lube in the rail joiners. Two, your track and/or pick-up wheels might be dirty or oxidized. This is especially likely to be a problem if you have brass rail as brass oxidizes easily and the oxide is non-conductive, but any rails or wheels can get dirty. Clean the parts with a track cleaning eraser (cheap at any hobby shop), Wahl Clipper Oil or denatured alcohol. You can discourage new oxidation and dirt by putting a tiny (as in about one-tenth as much as you think is way, way too little to make a difference) bit of Wahl Oil or Conduct-A-Lube on your rails and wheels, after cleaning. Third, and last, you might find it helpful to add several additional track feeders but I would try the mechanical and cleaning activities first. At any rate, you should have at least somewhat better experience with the Prairie than your dirty diesel. (Sorry. My bias is showing.) I'm pretty sure it has a flywheel, which makes for smoother operation and fewer problems with electrical continuity, and a longer wheelbase than a diesel so it might be able to "bridge" the occasional dirty or dead spot.
Well, I've talked to you more today than to my wife (well, she's out of town with her dragon boat team so I haven't talked to her at all yet) so I'll finish up. I hope I've helped with the issues you mentioned in your most recent post.
-- D
Thanks for all the advice. Once I get my new "baby" home and the layout dragged out, cleaned up and try it out (mechanically) then I will try the oil. If I have to run it at high speed, I doubt I will be able to use it. Seems the diesel if run at sorta high speed derailed, flew off the layout on to the middle of my living room floor. after hours of messing with it to get it back to working order, I don't go too fast with it. I am pretty sure I have the radius's too tight. Any how, once it try this Steam loco out I will know whether or not I purchased the right loco. My gut feeling is I have. Sound. the MRC is creeping way up there and not feasible for me or my layout to pay that much. The small battery operated hand held makes 4 different steam loco sounds looks more like it. Then again. for the few times I will actually use sound. I could just record it on a tape recorder and play it when I want sound. My problem is control! I get these ideas in my head and run with them. The only person I am doing this for is ME. It's nice to have people oh and ahh over it but in reality it's for me. I don't need a fifty dollar sound system or a new Dcc or what ever they are now called controllers. I have the old fashion turn it this way forward and that way backwards. Now if I had a larger home and a room dedicated to this....... yeah I'd be addicted to it. This is what I'd be going for! LOL http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/ now this is some serious model railroading in my opinion.
I am going to do all the suggestions with the track. I did buy new railer's last year but not sure if I used them on all the track. I also think stuff had accumulated on the track as I kept adding more "stuff" to the village. I tried to clean it, but can't reach all the track where I finally had it set up. So I now know more than I did last year and can't wait to dive into it.
Doneldon I had to laugh your comment about talking more to me than wife. Dragon Boat races, never actually did them but did cheer on my co-workers at the time, in Laughlin, NV. I will take into advisement all your have said about the oil, no scented oil, I think it would be novel to see a whiff of smoke come out of it from time to time.
Will keep you all up to date as things progress at Jamestown. oh my "baby" has been shipped, in Wisconsin right now and should be here early part of next week!
My "baby" arrived today! She's beautiful, well not sure if it's a he or she. But something that pretty must be the female gender. This steam loco compared to that old diesel is like night and day. I am so surprised how quiet it is. I am having track problems, but several things are probably to blame, been stored for months, track needs to be clean. joiners tightened or replaced. I tried the oil but since it derails more often than stayed on the track today, I just gave up on it. No sense trying when I know the track needs work. Sorry to say the whole layout frame work came apart and now I have two sections. Top and bottom to put back together. That's okay. There were things I wanted to redo anyhow so made it easy since it all fell apart. Doesn't speak well of my construction capabilities! I guess I have to figure out how to attach the stiff foam top part to the wood supporting it. I used dry wall screws but they just pulled thru. any suggestions?
Martha, your foam, is it the white kind that when you break it, leaves little white "beads" around? The best way to secure it to the wood is to use an adhesive meant for foamboard that comes in a tube and is applied using a caulkng gun, but something tells me that you likely don't have a caulking gun available to you. If not, you may be able to use a white glue like Elmers or Tacky glue that can be found at craft stores. The other possibility might be Elmers Wood glue. Do you have any scrap pieces you could try first?
Some more thoughts on the track aside from the joiners I mentioned earlier-is it possible the places you are having derailment issues are from not having the track properly connected together where 2 sections meet? What I mean is particularly where curves meet straights. Are you trying to make curves too tight and therefore each rail is not joined squarely and this is creating abnormal angles where the 4 rails (2 on each section of track) meet? When this happens, the outside rail shows it the most and there is a gap between it and the rail it is supposed to be joined against, as well as an unnatural "angle" being created there.
Sorry if you answered or provided this before, but what radius curves are you using? Re: WAHL clipper oil on the rails-this can be used to clean the rails as well as keeping them clean. I used a makeup Q-tip with some oil on it to clean the rails. I run the wet Q-tip on the rail head and use each side of the Q-tip till it's black. You will need a few Q-tips on hand.
I watched your other YouTube videos-very nice family! I can understand why you miss them. I have some familiarity with Upstate NY.
Quote from: jbrock27 on August 24, 2014, 08:14:59 AM
Martha, your foam, is it the white kind that when you break it, leaves little white "beads" around? The best way to secure it to the wood is to use an adhesive meant for foamboard that comes in a tube and is applied using a caulkng gun, but something tells me that you likely don't have a caulking gun available to you. If not, you may be able to use a white glue like Elmers or Tacky glue that can be found at craft stores. The other possibility might be Elmers Wood glue. Do you have any scrap pieces you could try first?
If the foam being used is the white kind that crumbles into little white ball then do NOT use it!!! It's the worst possible kind of foam to use as it has little to no structural strength.
Any of the numerous magazine articles and on line videos about using foam for model railroads will tell you to use the hard pink or blue extruded foam insulation board, preferable two inches thick or thicker. Personally, I don't use it as it's only fire rated to be used as wall insulation behind drywall and is not fire rated for use in the open, no matter how popular it is for model railroad construction.
Cheers
Roger T.
I don't disagree w/you Roger when it comes from starting from scratch, but have you watched Martha's video of her layout? If this is the kind of foam she has, she has already used it as the base to set up her Christmas layout. I don't think she is trying to dismantle it and start over, just make some adjustments/improvements to what she has accomplished so far.
Martha-
Like the other posters, I can't endorse the white Styrofoam. However, it's not worth rebuilding everything just to get rid of it. If you feel you need greater structural strength, just glue it to a piece of two-inch pink or blue foam, or a piece of five-eighths-inch plywood. (Get the cheapest you can find as it won't show. Avoid particle board but OSB is fine.) If the layout is smaller than 4'x8' you can get away with half-inch sheet goods.
You can find a few kinds of adhesive caulk in squeeze tubes which don't require a caulking gun. The material is more expensive this way but it allows you to avoid buying a specialized tool like a caulking gun. On the other hand, most home centers sell a couple of kinds of caulking gun, at least one of which is bound to be a cheapie. I've seen them for as little as 88 cents which will allow you to buy gun size tubes at a price that makes tossing the gun out economical.
Let us know if you want some ideas and material suggestions for transforming your shiny new Prairie into a cheery Christmas locomotive. It's not hard to do.
-- D
I should had been more descriptive in the foam category. It is 1" extruded foam. The pink panther kind. It's really nice stuff. I used it for them platform and for ice mountain and the train tunnel and the big mountain things I built to go on the platform. It is foam and I didn't think about gluing it on. The wood frame work is 1 by, not for sure 1 by 1.5 or 1 by 1. basic soft wood cheapo wood. I did buy glue to use with this type of foam to glue down some things. Not all glues work well with foam and the last thing I wanted was "melting" foam. Seen it happen with my foam fishing bobbers any how. I will use the glue I have and I already know I need to buy more 1 by wood and this time I think I will spend the extra and get oak. That cheap crap that is bent, buckled and as straight as Route 66 on the backside of Oatman, AZ. isn't' worth the few bucks it cost. Oak will give me better support, see I am trying to keep the weight to a minimal. I have to move this around, store it and drag it back out. I don't have the luxury of making this a permanent figure in my apartment. I also know I need to bring the support post out as this cantilevers out the front edge of my entertainment center. I doubt I just explained that very well. Caulking guns who the heck designed them? That is one "tool" I can't use. It's such a simple design but for the life of me. either the caulk is oozing out after I have stopped applying it (and released the handle) or it won't come out at all. I just buy the caulk/glue in tubes, cut the tip off and have at it. I still haven't gotten to the track yet. I need to drag out the stuff I have stored, extra track, rail joiners etc and see what I have or don't have. Now my mind is thinking I need rail bed for the track. Right now it was just glued down to the foam. Not sure why I think I need it but I am not sure if it will make a difference in the way the track lays on the platform. I know there is pro and cons on that subject and would love to hear your opinion on it. Can't think of any other questions or concerns at this time. Eventually I will have this all worked out. I just can't wait to get my "baby" up and running. Thanks again everyone for the help.
For a roadbed under your sectional track you can use cork (Midwest product) or foam roadbed (Woodland Scenics) product. Each has its proponents; both can be secured to a base board using white or tacky glue. An adhesive caulk can also be used. For what you have, a full package is probably going to be overkill. I have purchased cork for use on my newly designed layout but have yet to start working with it. I secured foam board to a half inch plywood base. I got the right adhesive (had a good caulking gun so that is what I used) and am very pleased with how the foam board glued to the plywood.
Thanks for input on road bed. I will check it out. I need to "sandwich" my platform between the foam and a stiff something, right now using stiff cardboard just not big enough to cover the whole layout, so I need to investigate something else. Reason for "sandwich" is to hide all the wires I have. Remember I am the nut job who likes lights, the more the merrier. And I finally have all the lights wired for quick release connections. I wish I knew electronics and electric wiring. I know there has to be a better way to run all the wires to one power connector. Not to a power bar like you would for your computer, printer, etc that needs power. But a power strip? Heck I don't know what its called but I see at hobby lobby they have a power strip that you connect miniature house electrical to it. has several pin type plug ins and you can buy the wire with the pins attached. Guess there is a positive and negative side for each electrical thing you want to run power to. Half of my lighting has power adapters that I think reduce the power down so it doesn't burn out the tiny lights? see not even sure if that is correct. I don't know how to use an ohm meter and would that even help? See just too many questions on that subject. I will just keep the wiring they way I have it. At least it's hidden. Well off to Home Depot to get me some supplies!
You're welcome. I remember the lights, but not the nut job part.
If you post your specific questions about your electronics here, you will get help. Lots of electrical wizards out there, I am just not one of them and probably would go insane if I had to account for all the lights that you have utilized :D
Martha,
jonathan, he of the b&o steam engines, would be the one to ask about lighting. he has extensive experience with this,
my advice would be to learn how to use miniature led's instead of bulbs. they generate no heat, thus won't melt plastic building or lampposts. they also last almost forever if properly installed.
Quote from: jward on August 27, 2014, 09:51:44 AM
Martha,
jonathan, he of the b&o steam engines, would be the one to ask about lighting. he has extensive experience with this,
my advice would be to learn how to use miniature led's instead of bulbs. they generate no heat, thus won't melt plastic building or lampposts. they also last almost forever if properly installed.
Excellent suggestions.
Cheers
Roger T.
Martha-
You'll get more strength for less money if you buy larger pieces of fir/pine/spruce than if you stick with small one by oak lumber.
The oak will be harder to work with than the others, too. You'll have to drill for everything, even nails, because the small caliber
oak will split if you don't. Go to one of the self-serve lumber yards like Home Depot, Lowe's, Menards or Rout 83; you'll be able
to look at the wood and select nice warp- and twist-free pieces.
-- D
I would concur with doneldon. I build all my layouts out of white pine. a framework of 1x4 is plenty sturdy enough to walk on. buying the better grades of pine will lessen warpage. oak is too heavy and too hard to make a good table for railroad use. pine takes screws easily, and is hard enough to hold them well.
Hmmm don't know what happen to my last reply, oh well. I bought MDF for the frame work, hope it will work. I don't mind predrilling matter of fact I even counter sink the screws. Questions, foam or cork track-bed? Tips on Ballast? Can any dirt/gravel work? I am always on the hunt for free or cheap deals and I spotted across the street a pile of nice clean looking gravel, the kind they use for landscaping, so it got me to thinking about adding ballast. Foam risers. How would I know the incline I would like to do? I see they sell 4% incline, is that typical? and suggestions to save on the risers? I see they are 20-30 bucks. Heck I think I could buy foam someplace cheaper but then again not sure if I should or not. Thanks for the tip on the electrical go to guy. He will be hearing from me once I get this platform done. Gez seems I just did that a year ago! I just get new ideas and to be honest "Prairie" is so darn cool and just zips around that track even goes up and over my small incline with no effort at all, I think it deserves a much nicer track and layout to travel on. Oh I do have one concern, this loco has the two tiny wheels in the front that run inside the track, I am guessing to keep it on the track, it seems they are very temperamental and easily run off the tracks. Is this due to the track alignment or lack of good alignment? Are these something people remove because they seem to cause derailments? Tips, opinions, suggests are all greatly appreciated and I look forward to any and all comments. Oh do you have any videos of your lay out I could watch, I would love to see what you all do with your model railroading.
Hi, Martha-
I'll try to address your queries one by one.
First, the MDF. It will work just fine. The only real issue with it is its weight and that's something you only have to deal with twice a year -- before and after the holidays.
Next, roadbed. Everyone has a different opinion on this because there are several options. Cork is probably the most commonly used and it works just fine. If you decide on cork, don't get suckered in by the spendy turnout pieces. You can easily make your own turnout platforms from cork strips and no one will know the difference once you cover it with ballast. On the other hand, some folks don't use ballast with cork roadbed because they think it resembles ballast. I'll leave it to others to tell you about foam, pressed paper and tar-like materials.
Ballast. Several companies make scale ballast in various colors that resemble the different kinds of rock used be different railroads in various parts of the country. Clean sand will work just fine but it will look smaller than you would expect to see for ballast. Some people use aquarium gravel (avoid the neon sky blue pink, please) but it looks too large for HO unless you can source some which is a bit finer. Frankly, I'd just look on line and eBay to get some regulation scale ballast in a color you can stand.
No, four-percent grades are not usual and there's a good reason: four percent is very steep so you'll see your neat little Prairie struggling to get more than two or three cars up the hill. I strongly suggest that you keep grades as mild as possible, ideally no more than two percent. Sometimes that won't give you enough rise for one track to go over another. In that case, consider stretching out the grade as far as you can and see if you can split the grade by having the flyover track go up half of the vertical distance and the lower track go down to a low point just below the highest point on the upper track. (This will be difficult to do with the MDF platform but it can be done. Just be sure to reinforce the place where you cut the MDF away,)By the way, those foam grades are made so you can stretch them out, thus reducing the steepness of your grade. You can also build your grade with a wood subroadbed supported by progressively taller blocks.
The wheels on your Prairie should stay on the track. Some model rails remove the spring and add some weight to the top of the truck to improve tracking. Do make sure that the truck swivels easily from side to side.
There are tons of functioning model railroads on You Tube.
Good luck!
-- D
woodland scenics sells their risers in 2% 3% & 4% grades. the higher the number, the steeper the grade, and the less your locomotive will pull.
the following info, taken from the book "Atlas HO layouts for every space" will shed some light on the relationship between grade and pulling power....
on a 1% grade, rise per full (9") section of track is 3/32", your locomotive will pull 57% of what it pulls on level track.
for 2%, rise is 3/16" per section, pulling power 38%
for 3%, rise is about 1/4" per section, pulling power 25%
for 4%, rise is 3/8" per section. pulling power 17% or 1/6 what it pulls on level track.
grades above 4% are not recommended.
note that a standard 18r or 22r curve measures close to 9" thus would count as a full section when planning your grade.
also note that you will need a minimum of 3" in rise for ofr track to bridge over another. that works out to 16 sections at 2%, 12 @ 3%, and 8 @4%.......those figures will help you to visualize your grades when looking at a plan on paper or computer.
M, I hope the MDF will not be too heavy for you to lug around. This is where plywood has an advantage-it has the strenghth w/o the weight of the dense MDF. Also, MDF, like it's cousin, particle board, has a tendency to absorb moisture and warp (yes, I remember you are in NV), which plywood is more resistant to.
I used particle board for my first (4 x 8) layout and regret it bc it developed warping. My choice of replacing it w/a plywood base was a much better choice than the particle board.
Consider what Jeff is saying about the number of track sections needed for the different grades and whether with the space you have, it will be enough for that number of track sections. And re: 18" radius track and 22" radius track of the Atlas brand-just a side note-the 22"r sections are about 1/2" or so less in overall length than the 18"r. I could not understand at first why they would be, but they are when I put them up against each other.
Quote from: jbrock27 on August 29, 2014, 08:51:55 PM
MDF, like it's cousin, particle board, has a tendency to absorb moisture and warp (yes, I remember you are in NV), which plywood is more resistant to.
I used particle board for my first (4 x 8) layout and regret it bc it developed warping. My choice of replacing it w/a plywood base was a much better choice than the particle board.
Jim-
I'm a bit surprised to hear that you had a significant warping problem with MDF. It certainly will absorb some moisture but, in my experience, it stays much more dimensionally stable than does particle board. I agree 100% that particle board is a poor choice for a model railroad, but MDF seems to work. Were there any special circumstances when you had the warping MDF?
-- D
Good Evening to ya Doc!
I did not say I used MDF; I used it's cousin, particle board.
-I used particle board for my first (4 x 8) layout and regret it bc it developed warping.
The circumstances were it was in the basement, which happened to be very dry, with a dehumidifier run in the summer and it was 30 + years old when it got replaced. But it had developed the warp long since. I agree with you that MDF does not absorb as much moisture as particle board, but plywood absorbs even less than either and is therefore the least prone to warping. Plus for the same strength, it is lighter.
PS-Ever see a cheap entertainment center made of particle board, develop a warp over time? ;)
Quote from: jbrock27 on August 29, 2014, 11:10:24 PM
PS-Ever see a cheap entertainment center made of particle board, develop a warp over time? ;)
Jim-
Yes, I have. A couple of times. One, or a set really, was in a typically damp basement. The particle
board had swollen up and blistered like fenders did back in the days before pickled steel. It was a
real mess.
-- D
The first entertainment unit I ever bought, a cheapo, had, warped over a short time and was never in a basement or otherwise damp place. It's the nature of the particle board.
Hey guys! I had a three day weekend and sad to say I spent 75% of the time being frustrated with my layout. I was trying to add the Bachmann bridge to it. It comes with those little plastic bars in different heights to make the gradual climb for the bridge. Great concept of an idea and probably works for 99% of the people who use it but for me, back luck Martha, I just couldn't get it to work out. Either it kept falling apart or the track kept separating and then I tried to solder the track joints. Anyone who reads my post know soldering is not my cup of tea. I did more melting of the foam deck or burning my arms as I laid them on the scorching track (yeah hope I didn't warp any of them) and the solder well it just evaporates into thin air. I got one good solder and spent hours on the others and gave up. I'm a stubborn ole gal and don't like to admit defeat but I did raised the white flag on the soldering and that stupid bridge well it's packed nicely back in its little box it came in. I can't find my extra rail joiners, heaven knows where I "stored" them. I then decided well I will just redo the little ramp system I had last year it worked okay. All I wanted is it to raise up a little to go over my stream to the lake. Don't know how to calculate the grade but the center highest point of this raised ramp/bridge is maybe an inch to inch and a half and it is a very gradual slope to it. I thought of wasting my money on those foam risers from woodlands scenics and then changed my mind. I will just do what I did last year, used foam board from the dollar store and glue to make it. Didn't get too far with that job, then I said well maybe I can find some material of some kind to make track bed. Seemed pretty spendie to buy it. another half day or more wasted on that idea. Another white flag defeat. Part way into my three day weekend my boss stopped by and gave me a nice little Labor Day cash bonus which I wasn't expecting so naturally I ran to Ebay and ordered that track bed. I got the Woodland Scenics track bed in the 24ft roll and to my happy surprise Omni Models (where I bought it from) distribution center is in Reno, so I got it the next day. I did the happy dance. Oh come on you guys know, that little dance you do when no one is looking cause you are happy. Seems easy enough to install, I say that so easily ha ha my luck I will need a 4 day weekend to install it! Of course I doubt I will like the gray foam showing so I guess ballast is next. Does it ever end working on these? I am laughing as I type that last sentence. I know my layout/village will continuously change year after year as I really do like to get frustrated and annoyed and throw a lot of white flags around! :)
The frame work. I did get the MDF as I said however after dismantling the layout I found most of the 1 by stuff I had already was okay and I just added more structure to it with the MDF and basically only added a small amount of weight to it. It is much sturdier now and still manageable for me. that took up a big chuck of my weekend too as I had to cut, attach, then re-glue the foam to the framework, my cat seemed quite upset there was this big thing laying in the middle of her living room floor with a table flipped upside down on it for weight, a sewing machine and books also used to weigh the foam down to the framework. But as cats go, she was only awake for 5 or 10 minutes before she went back to sleep and later upon waking simply ignored it and me.
Ballast question. I've seen how to on youtube to ballast, some seem quite complicated. Others pretty straight forward. My question, the rubbing alcohol water mix should be used? One of them said it helps make the elmers glue adhere better and dry faster. another question, is Woodlands Scenics ballast the only ballast you can use? What about the fine sand they sell to do sand art? anyone try that or familiar with that? Can you sift regular sand/fine gravel and use it? I hadn't thought much about ballast however now that I have the gray foam track bed on a winter white snow scene I think it might stick out and I doubt you can paint the track bed?
I saw in another post on this forum the discussion on the steam trains pros and cons. seem cons win out. I did specifically buy my Prairie because it steams now I don't know what to do. I think in my situation I would like it to steam only when someone comes by to see my Village, which might be twice this winter so I guess it won't mess things up to much? It's not like I am going to put that oil in the stack every time. Or does using it once or twice going to mess up the tracks? Oh speaking of tracks. back to ballast. won't the glue or alcohol mess up the tracks? seems both will get on the tracks. will all I have to do is just clean them? will the glue be hard to get off the tracks? I don't plan on smearing the tracks with the glue but it sure seems some glue may end up on them. None of the how to's discussed that part. What about the alcohol/water mix, won't that rust my tracks?
One last thing, it took all I had over this last weekend in between the frustration not to buy another complete Bachmann train set, it had probably ten cars, engine, track, some landscape/people all in boxes for 69.99 at a 2nd hand store. I still see that cute little plastic wrapped up package sitting on the shelf in the toy department. No telling if it worked however when someone keeps the boxes for these trains and the track what I could see looked in good shape. I would bet it was in good running order. I just couldn't justify buying it.
Well time to go and work on that track bed or at the very least take it out of the box it came in. Thanks all for advice and comments.
I will help you here where I can.
If your track rails are brass or nickel silver, the water/alcohol or dish liquid mix when ballasting will not harm the rails. I would not use steel track for additional reasons than rust. You are correct about great tutorials on YouTube about ballasting track. Even though I have literature on the subject, there is one video on YouTube I found very step by step informative and plan on getting back to it when I go to ballast our track. Yes, you have to clean the tops of the rails off with a rag (carefully) or track block cleaner when done, very easy to do. If you follow the instructions in the vids that are good on the subject, you should not have to do much cleaning of ballast off the rails after. Did you know you could paint the track as well and clean any paint off the tops of the rails with a track cleaning block? This should be done after any necessary soldering is done. Some folks put some WAHL clipper oil on the tops of the rails first, this way no paint sticks and the oil can be wiped away when the painting is done. This may work when ballasting as well.
Re: soldering track at the rail joiners-I have begun to do this extensively and found the more I do it, the better I get at it. If you are melting ties I suggest a couple of things, ask a few questions: are you putting a "heat sink" on either side of the rail joiner when you go to solder it? What I mean is something on either side to absorb the excess heat, such as small alligator clips on the rail to either side of the rail joiner. Or, what I have seen on line is someone took a small sponge, cut the area out around where they needed to solder (which is the outside of the rail if you did not know) wet the sponge and put it across the 2 track sections where they meet and are soldering together and the sponge served as a heat sink. I use 2 metal clips or "jaws" that I took off ice fishing weights-they are spring loaded and a little bigger than an alligator clip. These have worked well to absorb heat I don't want transferring to the plastic. Be sure to clip to the rails and try not to touch any plastic. I also put flux paste on the rails I am joining, and in the rail joiner before I solder. This also makes it easy for the solder to flow and stick by cleaning the metal surfaces. Be sure to wipe off excess paste or liquid flux when done soldering. Also, what kind and wattage soldering device are you using? This makes all the difference.
It can be a frustrating process but when you get the hang of soldering, it is a great skill to have.
I am in fact currently soldering track sections together to avoid exactly what you have described is happening-the rails pulling apart-for a trestle grade I am putting on our layout. I am soldering 3 track sections at a time to keep them from coming apart when I put the trestle piers on them. So far it has worked and I am able to slide the piers around, without having the track come loose where they are joined at the rail joiners.
Is it possible that you do not have enough room (track sections) to utilize all the trestle pieces? If so, it may still be possible to use some of them and the bridge section as long as you use the shorter piers and do not need the train to pass under the bridge section.
And no, work on a layout never seems to end :D (at least for most people)
when ballasting track, the glue goes between the ties where the ballast is, not on the rails. therefore, the glue won't interfere with the conductivity of the wheels and rails. the main thing you need to worry about is glue getting in the rail joiners or switchpoints and causing problems.be very careful around those spots and you should be fine. I use an old elmers glue bottle to apply a 50-50 mixture of glue & water, on ballast presoaked with alcohol applied with an eyedropper.
This is the video I was referring to. The most comprehensive one I have come across:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr_2EdbCRFU
Much better than trying to use typed words only to describe the process.
I realize the glue goes between the track but I know I will get some of it by accident on the rails. So I wanted to know what to clean the tracks with if and when the glue gets on it. I do have brass and nickel silver tracks so good to know rust won't be a problem. Would Goo Be Gone work to clean the tracks? I have heard of Walhl clipper oil. To answer the questions about wattage of the soldering iron it is a 30 watt, good to know about the alligator or sponge trick. I knew the rails should not get hot or extremely hot as it were. I didn't melt any ties but those rails sure got hot. Didn't know about the flux paste well I do remember something about it but it didn't come into play in my mind at the time! I swear that solder gun has it in for me! You are correct about it will get better, come to think of it, I have left over track I can practice on, I think the tip is to dirty too. I just need to get back on line and watch some how to's on it. refresh my memory. I hadn't heard if other sources of ballast can be used or just the Woodland stuff. I am thinking sifted sand/gravel might work but then again I don't know so that is why I ask. Jward, you said "on ballast presoaked with alcohol applied with an eyedropper" not sure what you are staying, you use the eye dropper with alcohol and drop the alcohol on to the track bed first? the one youtube showed using alcohol in a spray bottle and spraying the heck out of it first, is that what you are saying? Sorry just trying to get all the info I can on the subject.
Just as I was going to post this a new reply came in from jbrock27, excellent I will go check it out. Thanks!
Didn't get to work on it as I hoped to tonight but tomorrows Friday and the weekend is soon upon me. Can't wait.
Martha-
There are many companies which make scale ballast. In addition, you might find fine gravel at an aquarium store which will work. Just be careful hat the chunks aren't too large. Sand can work but it is usually to fine. It also raises the possibility of introducing organisms from the natural world into your model train world. Strained and inspected sand presents fewer problems than does dirt, but you might end up with a mold problem. Sand also adds weight pretty quickly.
Woodland Scenics has the largest array of ballast by far. It also sells its ballast in different size packages, with the cost per whatever decreasing significantly for the larger bottle. Other companies with reasonably priced ballast include Scenic Express, Bachmann, Noch and Model Power. I think Busch is kind of similar pricewise. There are other companies which cost more but might do the job if they offer the exact ballast you are looking for: Highball Products, Faller, Busch, Arizona Minerals and Joes. Hobbylinc.com has some ballast by JTT on sale this week.
Since this is a fanciful holiday layout, I'm wondering what clear crystalline ballast would look like. You might find some plastic gems at a place like Michaels which you can grind in a blender. Use clear and just a touch of blue or aqua and it could look like you ballasted your track with ice. Another possibility would be the tiny beads (glass at one time but I don't know if that's still the case) like what they use in paints for signs so they're easier to read at night. I suppose you could use "rubies and emeralds" but I think that might be too much.
You use the water/alcohol mix, plus just a touch of dishwashing soap (NOT for dishwashers) to dampen the ballast so the water/glue mix (also with a little soap) will flow into the ballast so it holds everything together. There is a significant possibility of parts of the ballast not being secured if you skip the prewetting or the use of some soap.
I don't think you need to be discourages about your stem loco. While the "smoke" feature hasn't been positively reviewed, including by me, there is no reason why you cannot run the steamer without smoke fluid. Just remember to turn the burner off when you aren't using it or it will burn out.
I do discourage you from buying train sets, regardless of their condition. Manufacturers were/are very cost conscious when it comes to train sets. That means they tried to put appealing but inexpensive components into the sets to attract people who were not otherwise model railroaders. Ideally, they would become ongoing customers who would purchase more expensive, better quality merchandise. But in the short run, low price, inexpensively manufactured products would support sales to first timers or to people with only a passing interest in model railroading. These economic and attraction motives are also why you might find some exciting, but generally not long lasting, features like log loaders or crane cars.
It sounds like you are making progress. Do keep us up to date.
-- D
You're welcome Martha.
I realize the glue goes between the track but I know I will get some of it by accident on the rails.
I knew that you were aware of all of that which is why a mentioned some clean up might be needed. I hope no one thought I was somehow implying the tops of the rails get ballasted ::)
From what I recall, you don't have any "switches" (turnouts) on your layout to be concerned with, do you?
What brand soldering iron do you have? Here are some more tips: I clean the tip of my iron when hot by wiping it on either a damp sponge or a copper mesh scourer/scrubby like you find for 3 for $1.00 in a dollar store. I put the scrubby in a cleaned out plastic container (like an old butter tub) and carefully w/o touching the plastic, rub the tip in the mesh. This takes off old solder and cleans the tip. Also, after cleaning the tip and before putting the iron away, I put some solder on the tip. When it cools off, it protects the tip. When I am soldering, I like to have some solder on the tip first as I have found this to be the easier method to solder than trying to use one hand to hold the solder and the other to hold the soldering pencil while trying to direct everything on my "work".
Doc , thank you for the info on the different ballasts. I am taking notes.
Quote from: Martha on September 04, 2014, 10:59:16 PM
. Jward, you said "on ballast presoaked with alcohol applied with an eyedropper" not sure what you are staying, you use the eye dropper with alcohol and drop the alcohol on to the track bed first? the one youtube showed using alcohol in a spray bottle and spraying the heck out of it first, is that what you are saying?
I apply the alcohol directly to the ballast with the eyedropper, one drop at a time. it is a bit more tedious than a spray bottle, but I've had much better results with the eyedropper.
Doneldon you have thrown me for a loop. "Just remember to turn the burner off when you aren't using it or it will burn out". Where the heck is the on/off switch for the burner? I have looked on both engine and coal car and don't see any switch? Perhaps this is an old model one that doesn't have it? All I see is the stack where I put the drops of oil in and what looks like a tiny coil in the stack that would heat up and create the smoke.
AND while I am on the the subject, how do I attach the engine to the coal car (or is it called a tender?). The car has a fix L shaped hook at one end and the typical C shaped hook with a tiny wire under that C shaped hook, the engine at the rear does not have any C shaped hook or hole for the fixed L shaped hook to attach to. There is a lip on the back of the engine that I assumed is how the two connect, use the fixed L shaped under the lio of the engine. Just seems odd there is no definitive way I see to connect the two. Also why is there a little wire on the bottom side of the C shaped hook? None of the cars I have have that little extra wire.
Soldering gun - it is a Voltage Pro 30 watt soldering iron. comes with a 5/32 fine point tip. It did come with a sponge to clean it but no flux. I was asked about what one I have. I did know to solder the outside rails but still working on getting nice clean solders.
My layout is tight. One reason why I am having problems getting the track to lay right. I wish I had gave myself a little more wiggle room on the layout but it is what it is or wish I had known more of track layout prior to all I have done so far. Given second chance I would use only flex track, but there is no second chance on this one so I will make it work. Soldering the joints will help a lot to keep it together.
Ballast - Once again Doneldon master mind of model railroading layout gave me some outstanding ideas for the ballast on my layout. I already went and tracked down my silver glitter to mix in with white sand (store bought kind) and I will finely crush up some blue or aqua glass beads I have and add it to the mix. white, sparkling, hints of blue/aqua/silver "ice" will look bitchin on that track bed, I can see it already. I don't mean to discount any information ANY of YOU that have given me advice, tips, opinions, Doneldon just hit the nail on the head for my particular layout. I have used sparkling nail polish on some of the edges of the homes and tree tips to give that extra little sparkle you get from that icy cold frozen snow.
I want to be sure I am getting mixtures right. Glue/water 50/50 mix. Alcohol/water/dish soap mix 25/75 with a drop of soap mix. There are plenty of how to vids out there to explain how they do it. I have seen guys do the inside track first, others do outside edges first or do both at the same time. I plan on doing the farthermost outside edge, that would be the inside of my oval track first then maybe the inside on ties then the outside edge which would be the outside edge of the oval track. Doing it this way in my head I am not reaching over something I already did and disturbing it. I will also work in small sections. It is a straight oval track, meaning I have no turn outs, tunnels, BRIDGES or cattle crossings, just a little hump to go over my stream. The tunnel I have I made and is removable for storage purposes.
A couple of you have suggested "jonathan, he of the b&o steam engines, would be the one to ask about lighting. he has extensive experience with this" How do I reach him? I am going to need advice fairly soon on the matter (lighting) and hope he or someone else can direct me towards a more suitable set up then I have now. Thanks.
He'll probably see this soon and chime in but search his name in the search section on the forums.
Here are some of his to get you started:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,26352.0.html
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,22213.0.html
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,21690.0.html
Also, In regards to your questions about the locomotive:
Older 0-6-0's Didn't have the switch, in fact, I've never seen one in person, but pre-DCC ones didnt that I know of. Anyway, You can remove it (the coil, you got theat right) By removing the shell or, at the risk of damage, yanking it out with thin pliers. That said, I'll be honest, I ran a few 0-6-0's around on my layout something like 6 years ago, before I moved and sold off most of my equipment (and subsequently upgraded to better locos) and they ran fine w/o oil, even without removing the coil.
The tender does in fact connect by putting that L shaped plastic post in the Lip at the back of the Locomotive. The other side, the "C" as you said is the coupler to the Cars. The wire beneath is a trip pin. It is used for uncoupling with magnetic systems and as a crude representation of brake hoses. I'm suppressed to hear your other cars don't have them, I've only seen one coupler of that type that didn't.
Martha-
Look behind the smokebox door for the smoker switch. That's the round piece on the very front of the locomotive. On locos which have a switch there you'll see that one of the "bolts" is actually a moving catch. Move that and the door will swing open.
The L-shaped bar is what physically connects the tender and loco. The fixture which looks like an almost closed fist at the rear end of the tender is the coupler for your train. The wire underneath sort of simulates the brake line which runs the length of the train but it is also functional. Knuckle couplers use the curved wire (which is ferrous metal) to operate the coupler jaw for uncoupling. An undertrack or on-the-ties magnet pulls the curved wire to the side, opening the coupler jaws. However, as long as a train is moving there is enough of a connection between the tiny ridges on the moving jaws of the coupler to keep the train together. If you stop the train over the uncoupler it will pull the jaws far enough that the train will uncouple at that point. The newest (as in for the last few decades) knuckle couplers have a feature called "delayed uncoupling." That means that the jaws will open to uncouple and stay open if the locomotive moves its part of the train away just a scotsch. Then the engine can back up and push the uncoupled part of the train without recoupling the whole train. This is a real help when switching cars into sidings or at a yard. This feature has nothing for you since you have a display layout without the intricacies of switching. In fact, you really don't need uncoupling at all. You can separate your cars by hand if you are careful so you don't twist or damage the couplers. You will find some cars on the used market without the coupler trip pins (the curved wires on the coupler) because the owner felt he had better luck with his couplers without the pins. A few model rails remove the factory curved wire and replace it with a short, straight wire. These often look like a piece of a safety pin and they are another example of a modeler attempting to improve on the original design.
NB: The coupler on the front of your Prairie is a "dummy coupler," meaning it is for looks, not function. It is possible to do a transplant with a real coupler but it is quite a project on this loco and it's not something you need for your layout. I would be surprised to hear that you want to pull your trains around with the engine going backwards and tender first.
Your soldering iron should work for you just fine. Others have given you some good ideas and I won't repeat them. I will urge you to use your sponge, dampener so you have something to clean slag and excess solder off of the tip when it gets fouled. That crud is an excellent thermal insulator. While it will leave the tip hot enough to give you a burn you won't fail to notice, it won't be hot enough to heat your solder or the pieces to be joined enough for quick soldering. That means you'll hold the iron on the place you are soldering too long which will heat things to the point that they'll damage adjacent plastic parts and still not make the joint. Flux will help your solder flow and stick to the parts to be soldered. Use ONLY non-acid flux. It will often be labeled rosin flux. The real key in soldering is having perfectly clean parts to be soldered and a clean soldering tip. "Clean" means there is no foreign material and no oxidation. You can clean the surfaces to be joined with a file, sandpaper, coarse eraser, wire brush or fiberglass pen. Coat the clean surfaces with a tiny dab or drop of flux to protect the clean surface from oxidizing when it gets hot, and then add a bit of solder to both pieces. That's called "tinning." Then touch your iron to one of the pieces (not the solder) and the metals will heat up quickly and join. Remove the iron and wait a few seconds for the solder to cool. If it's shiny, congratulations, you have a sound joint. If it is dull, do over as it won't last. You may hear people call this a "cold joint."
I'm glad to hear that my sparkle ballast will work for you. You also mentioned using glitter fingernail polish. That's a great idea for an ice effect since it is both shiny and glittery. Craft stores also have both white and clear acrylic with glitter or the more opalescent specks which do a bang-up job of looking like snow and ice. I expect those materials are a lot cheaper than nail polish. Anyway, they are great for adding snow or ice on the eaves of buildings, icicles and the snow that accumulates on trains running during a snowstorm.
You are making great progress. So much so that I'm noticing how little I get done!
-- D
Layout at a stand still. I can't wrap my mind around that little hump I am adding! Wish I hadn't ripped it out but I wanted to add track bed and ballast, you understand, keep improving, adding stuff as you go type thing. So while my mind is not on it I am sharing my youtube again. I changed to a new channel that will be for my crafts/train stuff. Some how my videos ended up in the company's youtube channel and well, not cool. So here it is.
http://youtu.be/7wdmazwRBZg
you can search me martha jamestown 2014 also, that should get you to it.
I hope Jonathon sees it or reads this as after seeing some of his post/photos Holy Cow he is inventive. I like taking something and turning it into something totally different and he did just that with his lamp post. AND he used some terminology I'd used "spring thingy thing"
Okay so I might of lied about that hump thing. As I sit here typing I can look over and see the poor half built thing just waiting to get completed
Oh another sad thing. I guess my soldering really messed things up as now there is little to no power to the tracks. I noticed globs of solder on the rails which even I know is a no no. So that is another project. Taking all the track and removing any solder that might be stuck on it, clean it up and practice soldering on scrap track first. Then solder the track. Always a learning adventure in this hobby.
Martha-
Jamestown is charming. I would be very proud of it if it were mine and I think you should
be, also. I hate to rush the season but Happy Holidays to you, too!
-- D
I wondered why the first video I watched of Jamestown appeared to sponsored by a pest control company ;)
Sorry to hear about the solder on the track. That would not likely be the direct cause of little to no power on the track. There is something else going on there. Do you have an OHM meter?
Back to the solder on the track. This sometimes happens. How much is there? Can you post a video of that? Sometimes it helps a lot use a magnifier when soldering the track, makes it easier to see.
To help you with the problem of the solder on top of the track: If there is not a lot, you may be able to get it off by using a track cleaning block. That would be the first thing to try. #2 is tricky but possible: put heat sinks in place on either side of the rail where the "blob" is and heat up the blob of solder with your soldering pencil till you melt it-you then may be able to wipe it up with a rag while it is liquefied. The danger being you melt ties in the process. Or, you can do the same thing, but take a piece of wire that has multi strands, have some flux paste already on it and touch it to the melted solder-this may transition the unwanted solder to the scrap piece of wire and off the rail.
Another resort, far down the list is to take a small file and file off the unwanted solder. The downside to this is unwanted scratching of the surface of the rail, which means dirt gets in the scratches, meaning extra cleaning for those rails.
Last alternative I can think of at the moment is, it is always good to have scrap pieces of sectional track on hand for "custom fits" if they become necessary. Put those "blobed" up pieces aside, and get a pair of Xuron Track Cutters. These are terrific for cutting sections of brass or nickel track. You can cut off the piece/section of track that has the blob on it and save the "good" section for future track laying. Just trying to come up with some options here.
One other thing to keep in mind, if you did not know already-always a bad idea to continue to work on the layout when tired or frustrated. I have found this just leads to additional or worsening problems. Better to put it aside and come another time when fresh.
Another weekend spent on the layout. At least this weekend I seemed to have gotten someplace! I glued down the track bed and tried to be lazy and glue the track down as well without soldering the joints. The little solder I had managed on some of the tracks I was blaming for it possibly not working when in fact it was the joints that had separated during the glue down process (or drying process). I pulled up 95% of the track to redo. This time I took the time to go buy some flux paste (red faced to admit I tried doing the soldering without it) and well ....... I have some pretty nice solders or I think they are. I happen to have a sanding block and lightly used it to sand off any solder that got on the top side of the track. The joints I have completed, I can run my finger over the top of tracks and not feel the joints. It feels like one continuous track. I only got 1/4 of it done but now feel good about what I am doing. I was able to get "Prairie" going long enough even pulling a few cars to puff some smoke! Oh she is going to be so darn cool once this is all said and done, I am working on also taping steam loco sound effects to fit in with this layout, just to make it kind of cutesy if or when people stop by to see it.
Note about cars I have, none of them have that little wire below the coupler, just a hard plastic L shaped below it. I think this set I got was around the 70's or 80's when it came out, not sure but it appears old from the boxes and literature that came with it. No matter, they connect, stay together except that darn little red caboose, 50/50 if it will stay on the track, any ideas why? Its so short coupler kind of like a trailer you tow that is short, harder to back up with it, can jack knife very easy. Seen enough of that fun watching novices at the marinas. Seems by the time it gets to the curves it is ready to derail. I could eliminate it but come on, all trains needs a caboose!
Once solder is done, ballast is next. I found at Michaels, granulated sand. it looks similar to a fine/med sand combo from Woodlands Scenics. I got it in white, dug out my coffee mill, something I never used for coffee grinding, and threw in some glass beads, different blues, aquas and some white opalescence ground some fine and some medium, toss them in the bowl of sand, mixed in some silver glitter and I will have one wintery ballast effect. Can't wait to get to that project.
After that will be the lighting. Everything I have is LED in some form. Most of the stuff is for Christmas villages by lemax or dept 56. They are the ones I would like to control better. they use an adapter to run the power and I did rewire everything with small quick disconnects but there are still so many things spliced together run here and there and one thing I hate is wires showing. I can't eliminate all the wires obviously some are strings of lights but the other wires have to be hidden and easily disconnected once break down of this village happens. I'm sure Jonathon with be hearing from me!
Well better get back to work. Just wanted to give an update. Only 80 days to Thanksgiving, that is when I start all my Christmas decorating. Jamestown I would like done by mid October so I can enjoy it longer.
Re: caboose. If it has the same couplers as you describe (horn hook couplers aka: X2Fs) it may also have ABS plastic wheels/wheel sets and these easily get out of kilter or get "chipped" along the edge/flange of the wheel. They are made of what is considered to be inexpensive plastic material. These wheels can also get out of "gauge"-too wide or too narrow. You can only really properly check them for that problem with a wheel gauge. Does it derail both going forward and backing up? Also, is it only a problem when going around curves? If so, it may not have enough "swivel" in one or both of the trucks and as a result, can't negotiate the curves. Are the couplers attached to the trucks (where the wheels are mounted)? Are they the horn hook kind you describe?
re: caboose- they are plastic cheap o wheels. I will check to see if they are damaged, usually happens on the curves and it does seem to be the back set. I have other sets I can change out, ones that probably are in better shape. Thanks for the info will let you know if that was the problem or not. I had the same problem last year and I actually added some weight to it and it seemed to help, probably just help the wheels stay on track a little better. Going to give a look see now. Thanks!
Martha-
Sometimes there is a warp in a plastic wheel which isn't very noticeable. That can cause derailments, too. Also check the weight of your caboose. It should weigh one ounce plus one-half ounce for each inch of length. Insufficient weight is a common cause of cars not holding the rails. This is especially true for cars at the end of a train and even moreso when backing.
-- D
You're welcome!
Regarding solder blobs - I haven't read through some of the previous postings. Radio Shack used to sell coils of a copper braided wire that is used to remove solder. All you do is heat up the solder blob by putting the braided material between the blob and the soldering iron. The idea is that the softened solder will attach to the braided material. Putting a dab of flux on the braided material improves the process. This could also be done with plain old stranded wire - again with a little flux on the wire.
I haven't read through some of the previous postings
Really? Why not? Which ones did you read? What criteria did you use determine which previous posts you would read and which ones you would not read, Woody?
Woody gave good advice on the solder blobs, thanks, now would that method work for un-soldering the joints? This layout has it in for me I'm telling you! Yesterday I noticed one joint on a curve as soon as the left front wheel comes to it, it rises up and off the track. I have looked at it at all angles and can't really see why, then I noticed the opposite side of the track at that joint doesn't look good. I think I warped the track. Also the track just before this one is the power track, sorry guys don't know what it's called. It is the wide plastic thingy with the track in the center and the 2 prong connector hooks to it to supply the rails with power. That one seems to have a problem too. Right smack in the middle of it I finally noticed what appears to be a good deep scratch in the brass. When the loco gets to it, it stops, with a little prodding it will continue on, until it gets to that next joint and then derails. So I have another power track and another curve track I was going to replace and hope that fixed the problem. Now I can't seem to get the tracks undone to replace. I got frustrated and walked away so I wouldn't get angry and tear the crap out of it. The track joints are all soldered, glued down to the track bed and I was working on the ballast when I noticed this problem, not sure how it got by me before this. So any suggestions? First how to get the joints apart and second that power track, would a scratch on the brass be the cause it stops there? It only stops there when I run the train on low speed. Thanks in advance. I know I will get answers and help in solving this new development.
Yesterday I happened to catch this show, never seen it before Extreme Collectors. This one caught my eye as a guy built his home to house his train collection. Here is the link, there is four segments to the show hot wheels, trains, bottles and Mr Peanut collections. Trains starts about 8:01 into the show, just thought I'd share it.
http://youtu.be/bCRIP1wMAeE
I thought I had given the same advice, much earlier in my post of 9/6. Oh well. ??? Look there for ideas on how to get soldered tracks apart as well.
The black piece you describe, with the prongs, is a rerailer with terminals on it. I have only seen these come in brass or steel rails. Stay way from the steel. Sounds like it is damaged and cannot be fixed. Time to toss it. Having a rerailer makes it easy to put cars and locos on the track. If you need it for that, find a new rerailer piece. But you do not necessarily need to find one that also has the prongs bc, since you are getting good at soldering, you can get your power to the tracks by soldering a power wire to either rail (the side profile of any other section of track) then connect the other end of those wires to the DC side of your power pack and walla, you have powered the rails.
Martha-
The braided wire will pull melted solder out of joints the same as it pulls unwanted solder from other places. It's usually easier to just melt the solder and quickly pull the tracks apart before the solder resolidifies. That's also much cheaper than using the braided desoldering stock.
-- D
jbrock27, you did give me advice on the soldering, and I had forgotten who had given me it. I mentioned woody as he is new to replying to me and I do appreciate everyone's replies. You, Doneldon and Jward have given me the most advice, help, opinions and ideas and I honestly couldn't have done what I have done without all the help. Still a bit unsure of myself and my soldering abilities. Is there a how to video on how to straight wire the track as you have described? I have the old style power supply box, turn the little plastic dial left or right for forward or reverse. It does have one connection for DC power and one connection for AC power on it I get the DC side two wires run off of it to the 2 pin connector plug that goes to the rerailer. What do you hook up for at AC Side? Never quite understood that. So you are saying I can solder wire on outside of the rail and connect it to that power supply? hmmm something to think about. rerailer, so that is what it's called. See I keep learning from all of you.
Thank you for that Martha. Glad I can help.
AC is for lights and switch (turnout) machines and not for track. The DC is for powering the track.
What brand power pack do you have?
If I read you right, the rerailer you are having the troubles with, has 2 pins on the wire end that fits into 2 holes at the rerailer end-is that right? If that is the case and you decide not to replace it exactly, you can (with the power off) snip off that black connector end that plugs into the track and seperate the wires. Strip about 1/4 inch off each end. How long a distance do you need the wires to go from the power pack to the piece of track you are going to use to "power up"? Depending on the distance and how you want to connect it all up, there are some different ways to do this. It also depends on what tools you have. You can use "bullet" and female connectors to connect the wires you have now, to 2 additional lengths of wire, this way you can remove them easily from being connected from the power pack to the track. This will require having a crimping tool. At the track end, you can strip a little less than 1/4" off each piece of wire and solder these ends to the sides (different) of any piece of track you chose. You could also solder these wires to the bottoms of 2 rail joiners and use these rail joiners to join track. You could also permanently connect lenghts of wire by soldering them together and covering it with heat shrink tubing (put the tubing on first, not close to where you are soldering the 2 wires together then slide over solder joint) or by cimping them together with a crimp connctor then wrap in electrical tape.
Doc, the first time I goofed soldering 2 sections together, there was no way I thought I could get both joiners hot enough at the same time to be able to pull the pieces apart. Is this possible? It is much different soldering them on one at a time than to be able to get both hot enough to be loose. What's the trick?
Quote from: jbrock27 on September 15, 2014, 04:20:00 PM
Doc, the first time I goofed soldering 2 sections together, there was no way I thought I could get both joiners hot enough at the same time to be able to pull the pieces apart. Is this possible? It is much different soldering them on one at a time than to be able to get both hot enough to be loose. What's the trick?
Jim-
Two soldering irons and quick reflexes.
-- D
:D
Thanks Doc but I know I don't have 2 of the same wattage and not too sure my reflexes are that quick, anymore. Do you think many people have more than 1 iron of the same wattage?
the way I used to unsolder track sections (all mine is handlaid now so I do things differently with it) was to work on one joint at a time. heat the joint til the solder melts, pull it apart as far as it will go, then heat the other rail and do the same on the opposite joint. repeat as many times as necessary.
some good prep work on your track will minimize derailments. I always take a file and bevel the ends of the rail where the wheels will run. top and inside edge, a couple of light passes with a jewelers file will do the trick.
once I lay the track I run trains over it and fix any derailments that occur before I permanently fasten things down. with sectional track, I aalways nailed things down, never glued the track. it is easier to adjust things when they are nailed to a good soft wood like pine. not sure how you'd do this if your track is on foam.
the cause of derailments is often not where the wheels come off the rails, but a bit further back. watch your trains carefully at low speeds. anywhere you can see a wheel climb on top of the rail you have a problem. wheels can sometimes ride the rail tops for quite a distance before they drop onto the ties.
Jeff, how are you able to pull or loosen the track apart when only one side is melted and the other still locked in with a solid solder joint?
I thought filing the tops of the rails as a no no bc it leds to scratches that then led to dirt and crud collection in the scratches? I did not think that properly set sectional track needed additional tweaking to get wheels to run properly over the rails. If they are not, I would be looking to the sections of track for twisting of the rails, warping or being out of guage or the joiners not being true, causing problems between sections.
I have thrown up another white flag! I believe I have come to the final conclusion that this old brass track mixed in with a piece of nickle silver flex track is done, finished, out of here! 12 curved pieces plus 2 brass straights and one flex straight is just too many joints (32 rail joiners) and too much frustration for this gal! I might be mistaken in this matter but I think I should be replacing it all with nickel silver flex track? Please! What the heck should I do? The total oval is 12 ft. I find most flex track is 3 ft per section so I would need 4 sections right? Do I need a power rail to supply the power or can I just straight wire it as Jbrock77 has discussed? The Brass curves I have now are 9 inches, no idea what radius that is. It takes 6 on each end to make that oval. I have found nickel silver flex track by Model Power for 7 dollars a section (3 ft). Is that a good price? Also will Bachmann EZ track rail joiners work with this flex track? I have lost all patience and a few marbles fighting this track, if it isn't one section it's another, one section it goes fast another slow, it derails at joints that didn't get tight or moved while the glue dried. Glue is the only way I see adhering to the foam and I think less joints the better it is for continuity. So my MR's buddies help! I am sure there is more than one way to go here and to save my sanity. It saddens me when I go to how to's on youtube and see these trains just traveling the rails and they don't derail, stop, go, slow, speed up, spin wheels in place. they just go smoothly down the track and pulling several cars behind it! My possessed monster......
jbrock77 asked about my power supply, its a Bachmann model 6607, old as the hills I think. I tried to attach a picture of it but said it was too large.
M, if you look on the underside of the curved track, you should see imprinted what radius it is. Tells us what you find, it may be that with the width you have to work on, you can't have enough space for the curves you are using. You are using the flex track for straights correct, not to make curves? On the Model Power track, make sure it truly is nickel silver and not steel. Ebay sellers for example are notorious I have found for not knowing the difference but knowing enough that advertising something as n/s will get them more $$ than advertising it as steel. One way to tell, if it is not clearly marked in unopened packaging is to ask a seller what happens if a magnet is put to the rails. If the result is it sticks, then the rail is steel, not n/s.
That power pack should work fine for the amount of track you are powering. Did you understand what I was saying about the wiring? Did you have a back up rerailer that has the same type of plug set up as the one giving you the trouble? If so, it may be easier for you to use that than fiddle with the wiring. I don't wish to add to your being frustrated.
I am sorry for your frustrations. Time to walk a way for a bit and give it a rest.
One last thought, based on your mentioning the possibility of going with all n/s track-while it will be a greater expense to you, it may be easier for you to purchase and work with the Bachmann EZ track-grey roadbed with n/s rails and use all EZ track instead. You can hot glue or caulk the plastic road bed to you foam board. And there is a great series I found on line on using it to set up a layout. Give me some time and I will post it here for you to view.
Didn't take so long...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-LxY-P2n-g
Martha-
Four, three-foot sections of flex track will, indeed, traverse 12 feet of railroad. You might consider using flex track only. Thus, you would only have eight rail joiners on the whole pike. If it turns out you have a little over 12 feet, use one of your pieces of sectional track. The use of all flex track will allow you to install the broadest curves which will fit on your board and make little wiggles if you can't quite make a perfectly straight run. Keep in mind that flex track comes without roadbed so you will need to use some to get your rails up to the level of the sectional track. Cork will work and everything will match once you add your snow and ice ballast.
I would feed power to four pieces of flex track by using rail joiners with power feeds to connect for each of the two pairs of tracks, and then solder the rail joiners to their rails. That will mean you'll have power direct to every piece of track so you won't have to worry about aging rail joiners.
-- G
Doc, as long as both the flex track and sectional track are both Code 100, they will join at the same level without the need for any "leveling". They both have plastic ties of the same or close to same, thickness.
And not to be a wet blanket, but a danger of using flex track for someone who has not had a lot of experience with it, is to make the curves with it too tight.
Hey, before you make the purchase, I just want to ask, how did you come to the conclusion that it was 12 feet? Curves rarely work out to be that exact.
doneldon ask about the brass radius, the curved sections are marked 18R. Jbrock77 The second power rerailer I have doesn't want to work any better than the other but it could just be all the crappy joints I have.
I just spent money on track bed so I won't be buying EZ track even if it is the easiest.
I measured what I have now with a flexible sewing tape measure. It might not be exactly 12 ' but it is close enough for me to know how much track I will need.
The flex track I am looking to purchase is from Omnimodels, a online model everything store. They state it is new, in the original box and is nickel silver. I bought the track bed from this place and it was as stated what I purchased. It states it can be bent to a minimum radius of 18". It is on black ties, which doesn't matter to me.
Jbrock77 I did watch that video and trust me if I had not just bought track bed I would be buying EZ track and snapping it together.
Doneldon - you confused be a tad, mentioning different levels of track? Were you thinking I am combining brass and nickle silver? I know there is 83 and 100 in track (I think that is height of the rail?). What I am doing is all nickel silver flex track all one size. The brass crap I have will be just a distant memory, kind of like an old lover, stuffed in a box or toss in a dumpster.
Now the radius. This is where I am not sure about. What I have now the radius seems to be fine, not so tight the cars can't navigate around the track. The problem I am having NOW is a zillion crappy joints and old crappy track, 2 beat up rerailer/power tracks.
With four pieces of flex track I should be able to make nice smooth radius's with 8 joiners, a nice simple oval should be created right? The question now that comes to mind. The two radius's on each end of the oval is approximately 58 inches from one side to the other side. That is using my flexible sewing tape measure that I laid down the middle of the tracks and measured from one side to the other side of that curve. The flex track is 36" each so two make 72 inches. I would want to lay the two joined pieces of track at the center of that radius, bring them around (both sides) to complete the radius and start my straight track from there. Would that be a correct way to lay it out? OR do I want to off set the two joined tracks to make that radius? What little I have messed with flex track I had (actually turned out to be steel stuff someone sold me as nickel. that bend in the radius might do better not right smack in the center of it. I think I may be over thinking this or just frustrated with it all. Maybe I should get 5 pieces just in case I need to have extra or need to do a repair down the road?
Sorry if I am sounding like someone who has no idea what I am doing. Oh wait I don't know what I am doing! Its late and I might need to rethink this in the morning. Better sleep on it.
Quote from: jbrock27 on September 16, 2014, 12:04:50 PM
Jeff, how are you able to pull or loosen the track apart when only one side is melted and the other still locked in with a solid solder joint?
I thought filing the tops of the rails as a no no bc it leds to scratches that then led to dirt and crud collection in the scratches? I did not think that properly set sectional track needed additional tweaking to get wheels to run properly over the rails. If they are not, I would be looking to the sections of track for twisting of the rails, warping or being out of guage or the joiners not being true, causing problems between sections.
there is enough play in the rail joiners that you can wiggle the tracks apart if you heat one side at a time.
filing the blunt ends of the rails removes any burrs that may be on the rails. these extraneous bits of metal left cause bumps in the track and can derail cars. by beveling the tops and inside edges, at the rail ends only, you not only remove the burrs but also provide a beveled transition in case your rails are slightly misaligned. and since you are only using the file on the very ends of the rails, you are not putting scratches in the rail tops for long distances. the affected area would be a fraction of the width of a wheel, at each joint. it is not a large enough sot to cause problems.
btw, I notice you are considering the use of fex track. this is good for a permanent layout, but in your case id' recommend you stick with sectional track. it is a lot harder to get smooth joints on curves with flex track, the rail ends will need to be cut as one will be longer than the other on the curves, and flex track doesn't like being taken down and set up repeatedly. sectional track is designed to avoid all of those problems for people in your situation.
Good morning, slept on this dilemma, replacing all the track with nickel silver. Still have not made a decision. The advice I am getting is helping but also creating new questions from the comments I have gotten.
Working with flex track. If I connect 4 - 3' pieces will I be able to create an oval shape fairly easy? That would give me about 12' of track? I know the flex track has one rail that does move, if joining all 4 pieces will that moving track "adjust" and create the oval or will I have to cut and join? If I need curved track and flex track to make this oval what radius track do I need and how many and how many straight tracks will I need. Keep in mind I am trying to avoid numerous joints, this seems to be my problem now (maybe that isn't possible-less joints than I have now). Also, once this track is glued down it is not coming off. I store the platform with the track attached. No need to undo things. All I need to do is disconnect the power supply and store it separately.
after watching some videos, would I want to use 22" radius, 18" radius or 9" radius? at the moment I am using 18", six for each end of the oval.
Just spent the last few hours searching, researching, watching videos, re-reading advice here and because I am of a gender that changes their mind quite often in a matter of minutes have decided ( before I change my mind again) to purchase Bachmann EZ Track, Nickel Silver, enough track to make the approximate 58X36 inch oval I currently have. It is purchased and should be here in a couple days, luckily the distribution center is here in Reno. I will just chalk up the wasted road bed I already put down to inexperience. I only used half the roll so maybe I can sell the rest with the rest of the stuff I have accumulated and won't use to someone.
Now I do have questions for the EZ track install, any thing special I need to do to the foam platform? How should I attach it to the foam board, remember it will remain adhered to the foam layout when stored.
I did not purchase the straight terminal rerailer as the only one they had was steel not n/s. I did buy terminal joiners to supply power. It's one set of joiners with two wires for the power. Now will that be enough or will I need to add more power to the tracks? It was very cheap so if you say I should buy a E Z straight terminal rerailer I will.
If there is any further info I should know about setting up, using, etc this EZ track let me know. My days of brass, steel used flex track, yeah a magnet stuck to the crap (was told it was N/S, liar), foam track bed are gone. I may consider down the road replacing the power supply I have, OH MY GOSH! will my old power supply pack work with the EZ track? PLEASE say YES. For now this is it! No more additions, no more locos, tracks, joiners, and what not! Ha Ha that was a funny sentence. Next I will be asking advice for all the twinkle lights and crossing signals and who knows what.
Okay this nut job is signing off for now!
YES
jbrock77, my cars I will be using all have those cheap plastic wheels. Would it be worth it to change them out to metal wheels? If so I see they're 36" and 33" size, what ones would I use? what does those sizes mean?
Quote from: jbrock27 on September 16, 2014, 10:32:30 PM
Doc, as long as both the flex track and sectional track are both Code 100, they will join at the same level without the need for any "leveling". They both have plastic ties of the same or close to same, thickness.
And not to be a wet blanket, but a danger of using flex track for someone who has not had a lot of experience with it, is to make the curves with it too tight.
Jim-
But she will need to use something like cork roadbed to bring her rails up to the height of roadbed attached sectional track, which we know she has because she has said so in previous posts.
It doesn't sound to me like she's trying to jam her tracks into tight places, especially since her layout is well populated with scenery and buildings. The shape of her track is pretty much set because she used all sectional track before.
-- D
I don't think so Doc. If you look at her layout video, the track looks to me like traditional sectional track, not track with roadbed. I think this is why you confused Martha when you mentioned the height adjustment being necessary between the sectional track and flex track. Since then, only in the last 24 hours or so, it appears she has decided to purchase EZ track with n/s rails. I don't know if I would be certain the shape of her track is "all set" with the track troubles she has had; there may be a need for some minor adjustments to the shape.
JW, thank you for your reply. I still see that as being extremely difficult to do. If it were me, I would take the Xuron cutters, put them in line where the joint is on the two rails and cut. The cutters will basically follow the line of the joint and go right through the joiner. To me the joiners would already be bunged up enough to not bother trying to reuse (and bring further h/a) to try to desolder. Very little rail, if any is lost this way and the rail ends can be cleaned up using your file method after heating up what remains of the rail joiners to get them off the rails, once everything is apart and can be worked on separately. With this method there is little added risk of applying too much heat and melting ties, making a real mess of the situation. What had me wondering was your description of filing where the wheels run and "top edge", which to me is the top of the rails, not the ends where they join together.
Martha, consider the costs involved of replacing the wheels before you do it. I agree with a great friend of mine who says he does not get anal over the wheels as long as they run properly. Consider that if you are replacing cheap ABS wheelsets, you are likely going to have to replace the trucks that hold them to do the job right. The cost of this, which usually includes new couplers, mounting coupler boxes etc, can add up the cost and be prohibitive given the car you are working on. This point has been made on the board many times in the past. I have been on both sides of the debate as well.
To answer your question, they are different wheel diameters. As freight cars increased their tonnage, the wheel diameter increased from 33 to 36. Most older cars, being lesser tonnage, have 33s for wheels. Newer, bigger cars, have 36s. This applies to freight cars. I don't own any, but believe that passenger cars, even old timers, had 36s. For your old time freight cars, running with your steamer, 33s.
jb
but if you cut through the joiners how will you get them off the rails? it is much easier to heat the joint and remove one rail from the joint, then heat the joiner and use pliers to pull it off. you can't do that if you cut the joiners.
Good morning all. Seems I have created some confusion here on my track layout and because I have changed my mind (more than once) discussions are still on the old stuff and old the layout. Maybe we can start over from this post on.
I am installing BRAND NEW Bachmann EZ track N/S as soon as it is delivered! On the foam platform I have. This is what I probably should had done a few years back but being a newbie I didn't know any better or even where to go for advice.
I purchased enough to make an oval 36X58. There will be six 18R at each end of the oval and 2 straights each side, total 4 straights. This is basically what I had. If I need to "wiggle" it a tad I have room to do so. By "wiggle" I mean once all the nice new track is joined together and it makes that nice oval shape I can move it N, S, E, W to keep it correctly aligned and on the platform. I have removed the old brass track and the newly glued down track bed. Luckily I only got a few sections of ballast completed prior to this new development some got on the foam and that will be scraped off giving me a nice clean new surface to layout the new track. Basically starting from scratch. I will glue the EZ track to the platform and will store it that way.
If this new track does not work, well you will hear my fowl words from where ever you are located, sound travels they say!
I will not attempt to replace the wheels as I had thought of doing, it does sound expensive and once this new track is installed the plastic should do fine. If not, well I will go to plan B what ever that might be. I did read from old post about the wheels after I asked my question a few post back. Going to start to do that, go back and read old post. Might save me time from asking too many questions.
I do need help about when it comes to supplying power to the new track. I did not buy a rerailer terminal track as OmniModels only had the steel one and I want it all to stay n/s. I did buy a joiner terminal with the wires attached to use to supply power. Will that be enough or should I use the rerailer track kind or what? At this point I will buy/use whatever you all think. You are the experts in this field.
So to recap what Martha is now doing to her project she is waiting on new Bachmann EZ N/S track to be delivered. Once here she will be installing it and moving on to other things on the village.
Quote from: jward on September 18, 2014, 11:13:20 AM
jb
but if you cut through the joiners how will you get them off the rails? it is much easier to heat the joint and remove one rail from the joint, then heat the joiner and use pliers to pull it off. you can't do that if you cut the joiners.
Incorrect, you can and I have done it. It is very easy and simple. And luckily, have only had to do this once, on a piece of straight track where I was foolish enough to not thoroughly check a joiner I was using that turned out to be mishappen and as a result caused an unwanted kink once soldered.
You just heat what remains (1/2) of the joiner on each of the 4 rail ends (one at a time of course) until the solder is melted and you can push it off the rail using the tip of the sodering iron. I use a chisel tip. I worked from the underside and pushed along the edge of the joiner, while the section of track I worked on had the rail side on a wet sponge. Easy peasy.
Sounds like a good plan Martha.
Using the rail joiners with the wires soldered to them to power the track is easy. You will just have to remove the joiner that is already in place on the EZ track and replace it with one of the ones with wire soldered to it. There is a great video somewhere on the board here that someone posted, where if I recall correctly, they just carefully used diagnal cutters ("dykes") to pry off the existing rail joiner. I am sorry I do not remember whom that was, as I like to identify and address people by name instead of referring to them as "someone" or "somebody".
It would not hurt to have your layout powered from 2 different points, preferably as far from each other a possible. Remember to be consistent with where you place the wired joiners-North Rail, South Rail. If you need to add length to any of these wired joiners, see my earlier refreneces to joining wires by solder or crimp connectors.
Thanks Jbrock77, once I get the track and set it up and try the terminal joiner, if it doesn't supply enough power I will go and buy the rerailer track with power terminals or add more myself. I saw a very detailed video on doing that. I have started going back and looking for post on this site. Looking for all the neat tricks of the trade.
You are welcome.
I would forego the expense of buying a piece of terminal track and instead, if it turned out you need more power feeds either a) make up your own by soldering similar size wire to what you have now on the joiners, to some additional joiners (use the ones you bought as a "pattern") or b) solder feeder wires right to the sides of a rails somewhere on the layout. Again, being consistent with the North/South Rail thing. I have confidence given your soldering pencil use, that you could do either of those options.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/Firststeps042.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/Firststeps042.jpg.html)
I wanted to share what the platform looks like I will be adding my new EZ track to. This is actually the first platform, I redid it last year with the extruded foam and made it wider. The reason for it not rectangle is I have this on top of entertainment center and need to get around it. Everything has basically been remodeled. Those of you who have gone to youtube and seen the video can see the end result. This year, knowing me, it will be different again.
One NEW thing this year is Prairie.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20140906_112941.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20140906_112941.jpg.html)
Isn't she a bute Clark? (what movie?)
Can't wait for my new track so I can get going on this!
thanks to past post on how to add photos to my post.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20140906_075925.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20140906_075925.jpg.html)
this is Jamestown in all it's glory last year.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/2013-11-22130927.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/2013-11-22130927.jpg.html)
National Lampoon's Vacation
Martha-
You absolutely do not need the terminal tracks. In my view, they are a rip off because you'll pay a good sum for something which won't work any better than soldering your feeders directly to the rails or to the bottoms of some rail joiners. A tube of conductive lube will cost a fraction of the cost of a terminal track and will do more to enhance electrical continuity.
-- D
It was Jeff aka NarrowMinded, who posted that video I was thinking of about removing rail joiners from EZ track.
http://s792.beta.photobucket.com/user/NarrowmindedRR/media/20121110195709.mp4.html
I am still smiling and remembering all the post I just finished reading and it started with Jonathan and his night lights. He will be next in the line of fire once this track is up and running, I am going to pick him brain till sawdust comes out! There was quite a discussion on many topics. Us New Yorkers called them smug pots. So I guess we are all dating ourselves with them. Hopewell Junction!!! My daughter, son-in-law and family lived in HJ for a year or so and now moved to Beacon, NY. My Son-in-law is an instructor at the Fishkill Correction Facility. I actually stayed last April on the grounds where they live. Strange seeing inmates out your front window picking up trash and mowing lawns. I am from the Catskill Mts. outside of Ellenville (which used to be a nice thriving little town when I grew up there). My dad was born in Brooklyn moved to the country on a farm when he was 7. Small world sometimes.
Okay getting off track oh excuse the pun! I went and watched the info on removing the rail joiner on the EZ track, good to know in advance. I am not so concerned about saving it (joiner) I am more worried about ripping the rail loose so I will be extremely cautious doing that. Thank you for sharing that!
HA! I knew I didn't need those stinkin rerailer terminal things! I found this how to and would like your opinions if this is a good way to do the feeder wires, it starts at 2.25 or so. http://youtu.be/8QdzJZmgVfw
Where might one buy conductive lube? Also should I be buying grease, lube, etc for Prairie or is she good for a bit before she might need maint? I tried to open her up, worse day in my life I think, I know how Jonathan felt about Connie. I didn't get the cab off of her, I made the mistake of unscrewed a screw that didn't need to come out and the little tin part that has those oh so tender feelers on them that I am guessing supplies the power to those wheels. there was 6 of them to get safely back into place. I have quite a time getting that all back together. I probably won't ever attempt that again. I will just send her to Jonathan when she needs TLC!
Back to supplying power to the track(s). in the video I posted, he has a black wire and a white wire on each side of the rail Jbrock77 - is this what you mean by north and south rail? So IF I need more power to more tracks I can hook all the black wires together to one side of the power supply and all white wires together onto the other side of the power supple (on the dc side of the power supply of course). Is that correct?
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/2014-09-16105242.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/2014-09-16105242.jpg.html)
This is the power supply I have. This photo happens to have the small pin connector that would go to a terminal rail, I am not using it, just happened to be connected when I took this picture. What gauge wire would I want to use? Stranded or not? Sorry not sure what the solid wire is called. that is the type of wire the guy used. AS I am a novice at this, it would be smart for me to choose two colors to do this, whether I get black, red, white, or any other color out there. one color is for the north and the other for the south right?
I will do two sides of the oval, probably the straight sides, would be easier right then trying on curves? I am getting better at soldering well maybe not better but understanding the method to the madness better. Tinning the wire makes sense to me now.
One last question. EZ track is just a plastic bed, not really track bed right? Since I have new foam track bed left over can I use it under the ez track or will it not work? or is it a waste of time and energy? Does it have any purpose if I do use it? make it run quieter?
Need to sign off, Reno is under extreme unhealthy air quality due to the King Fire south of us. My eyes, throat and nose are irritated and I haven't gone out all day, it is just saturating everyplace. Thanks as always for all your expert advice.
Quote from: Martha on September 19, 2014, 12:08:16 AM
HA! I knew I didn't need those stinkin rerailer terminal things! I found this how to and would like your opinions if this is a good way to do the feeder wires, it starts at 2.25 or so. http://youtu.be/8QdzJZmgVfw
Where might one buy conductive lube? Also should I be buying grease, lube, etc for Prairie or is she good for a bit before she might need maint?
Back to supplying power to the track(s). in the video I posted, he has a black wire and a white wire on each side of the rail Jbrock77 - is this what you mean by north and south rail? So IF I need more power to more tracks I can hook all the black wires together to one side of the power supply and all white wires together onto the other side of the power supple (on the dc side of the power supply of course). Is that correct?
This is the power supply I have. This photo happens to have the small pin connector that would go to a terminal rail, I am not using it, just happened to be connected when I took this picture. What gauge wire would I want to use? Stranded or not? Sorry not sure what the solid wire is called. that is the type of wire the guy used. AS I am a novice at this, it would be smart for me to choose two colors to do this, whether I get black, red, white, or any other color out there. one color is for the north and the other for the south right?
I will do two sides of the oval, probably the straight sides, would be easier right then trying on curves? I am getting better at soldering well maybe not better but understanding the method to the madness better. Tinning the wire makes sense to me now.
One last question. EZ track is just a plastic bed, not really track bed right? Since I have new foam track bed left over can I use it under the ez track or will it not work? or is it a waste of time and energy? Does it have any purpose if I do use it? make it run quieter?
Martha-
The basics he shows for soldering tracks together and feeders are solid. I do think, however, that he uses more solder than is necessary, resulting in an unsightly blob which should be removed for asthetics, and larger wire than is needed. I use 16 ga wire -- stranded wire like for a lamp or light duty extension cord -- and then 20 or 22 ga feeders from the 16 ga buss to the rails (using 22 ga only when there is less than six inches from the buss to the rail). Also, I prefer to solder my feeders to rail joiners and then solder the rail joiners to both rails. This saves at least one unsoldered joint between the feeder and a loco's wheels. His idea of using wet cotton balls (or anything absorbent) as heat sinks is very good for when there are nearby plastic parts which can be damaged by the soldering heat.
Any hardware store should have conductive lube for your rail joints. You can also find it at auto parts stores where it is sold for use in spark plug terminals and boots.
You shouldn't need to lubricate your new loco this season unless it is sluggish already which may mean that it sat on a shelf for a while before you bought it. It probably wouldn't hurt to clean and relube annually (before you run your train,
not before storage) because the loco will be sitting unused for nearly a year at a time. You can use any plastic-safe oil or grease. You'll find them at hobby stores at an outrageous price or more reasonably priced at most good hardware stores. When you do lubricate, decide on the barest minimum of lubricant you think will work and then use half of that. Seriously, it only takes a tiny dab to do the job and more will just mess things up.
Yes, you can group all feeder wires of one color together for attachment to your power supply. With just two feeder pairs, I'd run the 16 ga buss to the nearest terminal, use a 22 ga feeder up to the track and then run the buss wire to the more distant feeder and hook it up with another pair of 22 ga wires. Do note that lamp cord (that's what they call extension cords and, well, lamp wires) either has some kind of marking impressed into one of its conductor's insulation or some ridges molded on so it's easier to keep your polarity straight.
Your power supply will work for your train but
only if you are
very careful and won't have anyone else around who might mess with it. This power pack appears to be for large scale trains as it can put out 17 volts. That will fry any lights it serves and will possibly even burn out your motor unless you make sure that you turn it up no more than about half to two-thirds power. HO trains use about 12 volts or a little more. If I were you, I'd go on eBay to find a power pack which is more suited to your train. There will be lots of them so they shouldn't be very expensive.
Yes, it's a fine idea to consistently use two colors for your wiring. It helps make sure that you don't mix up polarity and wire in a dead short. You might want to consider using two additional colors for the wiring to your lights or other accessories.
It might be a little easier to solder rail joiner/feeders where two pieces of straight track together but not enough to make any real difference. So ... solder there or nearby if there is an obstruction which might make it hard to run your feeders up through the train board to the track.
Yes, EZTrack's roadbed is plastic so take care when soldering. I don't think there's anything to gain by mounting it atop your foam material. In fact, it might be hard to do and result in unstable tracks. You can certainly mount roadbed attached track to sectional cork roadbed if you want to show certain tracks as heavy-duty mainlines but I can't think that you'd need to do that on your layout since you won't have sidings or spur tracks to show a difference. I don't think you can do this at all with foam roadbed, anyway. All of the foam roadbed I've seen is a single length (cork has two strips to make it easier to keep it flat when going around curves) so you'd find that it would raise your track a quarter-inch or so, but it would look awful. The foam, if it can be used would quiet the tracks but I think the point is moot unless your foam material is split so you can line its shoulder up with the edge of the plastic roadbed.
Good luck!
-- D
Martha, I agree in the video (which I have seen prior to this) the guy uses too much solder. I also don't agree with what he said about flux. He may have has a problem in the past bc he did not use the right flux or clean it off the rails. Funny that even though he said his method was guaranteed to not melt ties, he points out one that is :D
I agree with Doc that you can use 22-20 gauge wire to bring the power to your rails. I do not think you need any kind of buss. I do not think you need to bother w/buying conductive lube. The EZ track, once snapped together fits very tightly. As long as the joiners are in good condition and you have them slid into the rails properly, I highly doubt you are going to have any electrical continuity problems. I would not bother soldering the sections of EZ track together. You only need to solder where you are feeding your wires to power the track to the side of the rails where you chose to do this.
I agree with what Doc says about lubing the loco.
You are right-good idea to have 2 different colored wires going to the track. You are correct, when I say North Rail, South Rail, I mean the 2 rails opposite each other on a section of track. When you put your oval together, you will have one continuous rail that is North (or inner if that's easier) and one that is South (or outer). I agree with what Doc says about soldering to straight track. This is what I did, although it is not that much more difficult to solder to curved track if you have to.
I have no idea why Doc is cautioning you about your power pack. Does it say "HO" on it? Does it say anything other than "HO" on it? It's an older Bachmann power pack that is meant to be used with HO trains. I have one and use it to power accessories and LEDs.
I would not put the EZ track on any kind of other roadbed.
Simple way to use the red wire you have there-disconnect it from the power pack or turn off the power. Cut that black piece off the end. Separate the 2 wires a little bit to give yourself some room to work. Strip some insulation off each of the 2 red wires. Now here is where you have some options: take your 2 different colored wires that you will at the other end, join to the rails. Strip some insulation off (see my prior post on this) and twist the wires together of the like colors. Solder them together with flux and solder. Tin one red wire end with some flux and solder. Get some heat shrink tubing wide enough to cover where you are going to join this end to the 2 wires you have already joined together. Cut a piece of heat shrink long enough to cover where you join all 3. Slide it on the red wire, push it far away from where you will solder all 3 together. Then solder the red wire to the 2 of the same colored already joined together. Slide the tubing over and heat shrink over the soldered area. You can also wrap with electrical tape instead of using the tubing. Repeat this for the other colored wires and the remaining red wire. If you don't want to solder them together, substitute that for using connectors that you crimp. You can crimp them together so none ever move or you can use connectors that allow you to remove wires from the others if you have to.
Capiche?
Good morning! Just checked and my EZ track is out for delivery ;D. Best thing about ordering from OmniModels they distribute from Reno. Which means after work I get to work on the track. My gut instincts is telling me this will be the ticket. No more problems. Well at least not in the track department! If I need to add more feeder wires I am confident that I can do that. I did notice that guys video we are referencing didn't do such a good job on the joint, even I noticed that and wondered is that right? I thought the wire he used looked a bit over kill. See why I ask for your help/advice! I do have feeder wire joiner coming with the track, it was three bucks or so, they are all the same right? Atlas, Bachmann, etc, the joiners will fit all of those tracks? If it needs more power I will either buy another one or solder my own.
I will not use the foam track bed.
I am familiar with the polarity wire, (like extension cords, speaker wire has it also) usually white dash or some thing as you said to avoid shorting things out. The power supply box came with the track and cars I bought, actually I ended up with 2 of them. I will be the only one operating this as I don't want Prairie flying off the track and smashing. Last year I fiddled around a little using the AC side for lights, fried a little strand of lights I had, that made me decide to stick with what I know. Over half of my lighting is run off of adapters that reduces the amps or volts or whatever it might be called. They aren't meant to be connected with several strands at once but I have and so far so good. 75% of the small lights are Lemax designed for Christmas village or miniature dollhouse, etc. Each set of lights comes with a little box to be used with batteries or plug/lead in the adapter to it. Four leads to one adapter. This is the box the power supply comes in.
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I am also familiar with shrink tubing, did all my light connections using it. Great little invention.
I will leave lubing alone for now. I watched this video about care and maint. of the loco, should I oil the outside moving parts? at 4:16 or so he is oiling the wheels and other moving parts. I have noticed the little bit I have run the loco it sometimes made for the lack of a better word screeching sounds? I think it was the wheels on the brass track, made me think that sounds like something needs oil. If so what kind of oil? Here is that video.
http://youtu.be/OtW8Gx_WxL4
One last question for this post. What is the difference between prototypical and model. I noticed prototypical was mentioned a lot in a old posts.
I'm a proud momma! My little Prairie got her brand new EZ track, rail terminal joiner a little clean up of the wheels and track and she has been pulling 4 cars behind her so quite a while. No derailng no stop and go, no odd noises, just her doing her thing. I don't quite remember when I was so excited about a simple thing like this! ;D She has more than enough power with the single joiner. I never was planning on running her fast, She's just going slow through town, that's her job.
I did find something interesting, I took a chance, hooked up a string of "running lights" I have that go around the outside of the track for ambient light to the AC side of the power supply, it worked but made the box hum more than it normally does but the interesting part is it affected the DC side and Prairie would only move at a very low speed even on full power so...... The ac side of this won't be used for anything. I never expected to use it so no big deal.
Boy oh Boy, can't wait to get off work and start getting this layout going. I am going to paint the cars Christmas decor or "wrap" them in Christmas paper like I had them, so not to ruin the actual paint on the cars but now these babies are mine and they are going Christmas! ;D
Still would like to know about prototypical and model
All is well that ends well ! :D
Quote from: Martha on September 19, 2014, 04:22:50 PM
Still would like to know about prototypical and model
Martha-
"Prototypical" and "prototype" refer to the real, twelve-inches-to-the-foot trains that we reduce in size in order to have models because 90-foot long steam engines don't fit into very many basements, especially with all of the other trains we want to have down there.
"Models" are the reduced size replicas of the prototypes. The more accurately a model replicates its real, full-size big brother, the more prototypical it is. Generally speaking, more accurate models cost more than less accurate models because the extra detailing is expensive to do, whether it's a simple shake-the-box reefer kit or a brass locomotive from Japan, Korea or China.
-- D
Quote from: jbrock27 on September 19, 2014, 07:37:42 AM
I have no idea why Doc is cautioning you about your power pack. Does it say "HO" on it? Does it say anything other than "HO" on it? It's an older Bachmann power pack that is meant to be used with HO trains. I have one and use it to power accessories and LEDs.
Jim-
If you look at Martha's power pack you'll see that it puts out 17 volts. That's too much for HO models.
-- D
Since I don't know the answer, if I run the power on a slow speed is that okay or is 17 volts always putting out whether it goes fast or slow. These (I have two of the same) power supplies came with two different sets of Bachmann trains, both with brass rails. does that have anything to do with it, brass rails?. they are "vintage" now if you see them on EBay. They are older styles and did that have anything to do with it?
If I need a new one, any suggestion on a model? Doc said look for 12 volt ones right?
I am already eye balling changes I need to make to the platform for this new track but nothing that will be labor intensive. As I take off all of the houses, landscaping, lights etc, I am always working with a blank canvas more or less. I am glad it is Friday, my mind is going a mile a minute of what should I do next? I think working on the cars I will be using. Just wait til you see Jamestown this year!
Sorry Doc, but with all due respect, you are being unecessarily ridiculous and just helping to create further confusion and concern for Martha where none is warranted. It's an HO power pack that was produced by our hosts over many years (the black ones with the red knob are the same) and is of the same design sold by several other companies, for the purpose of running HO trains. Perhaps you did not look at the box it came in? Let me ask you this Doc. Do you really think that thing's DC output is 17 Volts, even at full throttle? Give me a break.
Martha, if and only if, that thing gives up the ghost as well as the other you have, then I suggest you buy a MRC made power pack as replacement. And keep in mind that while one side of the power packs you have now may stop working, the other side still may function for some other use. In other words, if the DC dies, the AC may still be useful. I would not go looking for a "12Volt power pack". News Flash: MRC power packs are rated for above 12 Volts as well, and are in many's opinion, not just mine, to be the best DC packs in the business.
And PS: There is no relation between the power pack and the fact that it came with brass railed track. These power packs also came with steel track sets. It can be used with any HO set up.
Well didn't get very far tonight with all I had planned, spent most of the night just playing with Prairie. I have wanted since I got her to try and figure out how to add some train sound effects just for the heck of it and not spend a fortune on anything so I came up with a small hand held recorder, found some sound effects on line for free and this is what I came up with right now.
http://youtu.be/Oe98pvtF0Qs
I will hang on to both power packs just in case. I'm keeping it 2/3 or less throttle only because I am so afraid she will go flying off into la la land and crash and burn on the floor! Is VAC the same as Volts? that word VAC is on the power pack and was just curious.
After tearing up the old track and track bed, the platform is looking a little rough around the edges so before I adhere the EZ track down I am going to resurface the platform. Its a fast and easy thing to do. White paint, popcorn texture powder and water. You get snow. I have learned using paint, just flat paint it doesn't get powdering after it dries.
Not sure what to do about ballast, since everything else is snowy the track will stand out a bit. I am going to experiment two ways. the sand/gravel mix I have made up already and the material I use on the platform. I am only doing the edges of it right now. and I am going to take a very long time doing it, don't want anything to interfere with the new track. I also tried my tunnel and it won't fit. there isn't enough space for it to rest on the foam behind the track. I think I have solved the problem by just adding a small ledge for it to rest on. Should work, if not Plan B
Thanks all.
VAC is Volts AC. DO NOT Connect the AC terminals to the track. This will burn out your Locomotive. Use only the VDC terminals.
thanks Irbricksceo, I won't use the AC side for anything, not even for lights. It affects how the DC side works so I will only use the DC side for my track.
thanks for your input.
Martha-
The track material makes no difference. It's the same electricity regardless of whether it is made of brass, nickel-silver or steel alloy. No, the voltage out of the power pack is not steady; it is variable. That's why the rightness of your lights and the speed of your loco increase as you turn up the power.
I agree 100% with Jim's endorsement of MRC power packs. They are the best by far and I'm sure that it would be hard to find very many people would attempt to dispute that opinion. That said, I have a box full of power packs and wall warts. I don't have any surplus MRC packs but I'd be happy to send you one if you'll pay the postage. I will be at an Elderhostel beginning on Sunday but I can drop it in the mail Saturday morning if you send your address in a private message. (You don't want that all over the Inet.)
Jim-
If you look at the embossed labeling on the pack in Martha's photo you will see that it is labeled with 17 volts output. It looks to me like the packs that were shipped with Bachmann's large scale train sets. My concern is that these packs do put out17 volts because the large scale trains would run poorly if there was only 12 volts in the rails. I'm aware that we control speed by varying the voltage to our trains and my worry is that a 17-volt pack on full speed would damage Martha's equipment. She already has some blown lights, if you go back to one of her earlier posts. That's why I intimated that the pack could be used safely as long as it isn't turned all of the way up.
-- D
Doc, I don't know why you are insisting the power pack is for large scale trains, bc it clearly is not. It was packed in a box marked HO, HO is clearly embossed on it (if you look at it), it is Model 6607 sold for years by Bachmann to be used with HO trains, they all indicate 17 volts DC on them. GOOGLE it, as RichieG would suggest and you will see THAT IT IS AN HO POWER PACK-HELLO.
You are not usually one to create confusion and concern, so I don't know why you seem bent on doing that on this thread, where a couple of times you have not been keeping straight what has been going on. After what Martha has gone through to get this all finally up and running, I don't know why you would plant the suggestion that she go spend more money when she does not have to. Not everyone can afford the Jaguar, Doc.
If you don't have any MRC power packs to send her, which is a very sweet offer on your part, what are you going to send her that is any better than what she's got now??
I don't know what blown lights you are referring to. I don't see or recall her mentioning that bc of the power pack. Is it possible she did that before she learned the difference between what gets connect to AC and what gets connected to DC and not bc of anything wrong with her 6607s?
Martha , going slow with the speed is better, more "realistic" if you will than running at the highest speed. Your safe with what you have, don't get unecessarily concerned when there is not reason to be. You can use your other power pack to run things other than the train, making sure you are connecting to the right place-AC or DC depending on which kind of current you need.
OH and as someone here said....
When in doubt a multi meter could be used to check it out ;D.
One could certainly do that, but it's not necessary. Unless you are the paranoid type.
are you sure the 17 volts is not 17 va or voltamps? 17 va would be about right for an older train set type power pack. and would mean an output of about 1.25 amps @ 12 volts.
I am not sure whom you asking the question of Jeff, but I am shocked you do not know or recognize this pack. "Output: 17 VDC"
GOOGLE/Internet is your best friend, ya know. It does not matter at this point anyway and why is this still a subject of interest? The whole matter of it is rather pedantic. Not sure why I just took the time even to post this ???
I'll settle this so that we can get back to other issues that martha may have should they arise (though I hope they don't)
I dug out My old 6607, not QUITE as old (probably 2003-2005, came from the original Harry Potter Bman Sett) and Measured it with a multimeter. The AC terminal held at about 19.6VAC. The DC terminal with the throttle at 100 in either direction was averaging at 16.8VDC. That said, I used this pack reliably with DC and DCC locomotives before swapping to DCC earlier this year (a testament to it's reliance when compared to the 4403 or whatever pack that burns out easier.) I used it on 0-6-0's (like hers) 2-10-0, 2-8-2, 2-8-0, f7,gp40, f40, and many many more. The 17VDC is correct but not harmful to the locomotive. Higher than I expected? Yes. But it has been proven to work.
I've heard that MRC packs are good but I say we go with the addage If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
i've seen them but never used them. I used mrc from the mid 70s until I converted to dcc. one of those would have been a huge step back for me. I see no reversing switch. am I correct in assuming that they had a rheostat set up for a center off position, with speed increasing as you turned the knob to either side, and direction dependent on which direction you turned the knob?
Fellows!!! I appreciate all you're doing for me. Doc I appreciated your offer, at this time I will decline the offer. I am keeping the power box I have for now, I am going slow with the power, might turn it up a bit to get the smoke stack coil hot to get smoke but any other time it's slow going. Her job is to go nice and easy around town, Spread cheer as the by standers notice the holiday colored cars and wrapped boxes shes pulling behind her. Debate can go on if you all like, but my power box is staying. Now lets move on to what else I've been up to today.
Today was a busy one for Jamestown. I found just the perfect tape to decorated the cars. They are all different and pretty. I haven't decided what I want to do to the caboose, I think it will be lighted,
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I wired longer leads from the track joiners to the power box. I soldered the two lengths together and then shrink wrapped them nicely. put on u shaped ends to screw into power pack. Shrink wrapped the also.
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I put on u shaped ends to screw onto power pack. Shrink wrapped them also.
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then I moved onto the platform itself. It was beat up, faded out, old looking surface so I mixed up my concoction of popcorn ceiling texture and white paint globed/rolled it on the whole thing..
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Tomorrow clearing a path for the tracks, gluing them down (I think) and then looking into ballast.
Looking Great! Keep up the good work.
It's laughable there has been further discussion about the 6607 (guess what I had to say about it was not adequate) but Brick, thanks so much for "settling" and confirming for what all but a few of us, already knew and were certain of. And, for granting us permission to move on; hope everyone takes it to heart.
Good job Martha on the solder joint! It is easy for you now, no? ;) And I really like the decorated cars. My son had asked me about running "Christmas" cars around the tree this year, after I bought EZ track to use around the tree. Is it hard to remove the tape you used?
The "u shaped" thing, looks like what is called a "ring connector" that has been modified by having the top of the ring cut away. Very clever if you did that yourself. They do sell "fork connectors" that are already made like that and perform the same purpose.
The u Shape was out of necessity. Seems I had every other size/color with the fork except the size I needed. Common sense told me to just snip part of it out, just enough to go around the screw. The screws do not come out completely don't ya know. I would had rather have a bit small connector but I didn't. It works just great for what I need it to do. Shrink tubing is another one of those genius ideas someone had.
Tape, I found them at the Dollar Tree Dollar store, not sure if they have them where you live, just happened to spot them hanging near the xmas stuff. I don't think the narrow tape will be hard to remove, to be honest it seems to be lifting off already but it's not a permanent fix that I was going for any how, The snowman is cheap duct tape from the same store, it's nothing like the real deal duct tape so I think it might come off okay. Last year I wrapped the box car in Christmas wrapping paper and it worked great. Simple ribbon and bows taped on would work just as well too. I have seen the narrow tape at Walmart as well, just not sure where I seen it, probably by the wrapping paper area.
I managed to glue down the foam board and the track. I had to stop and actually do some house cleaning, it looked like the Bachmann train layout factory had taken over. Boxes and old track and lights not yet set up, wood scraps, soldering stuff, glue stuff, ballast stuff, scraped off old platform stuff. You name it it was every where. Unfortunately I don't have a large enough place to just have a room for this so, it is pretty much taken over the living room area. At least now I have a place for company to sit after cleaning up.
Ballast is still in the near future.
The new surface I did last night came out better than ever. Very pleased with it.
I think it is only up from here, a little at time and before I know it Jamestown 2014 will be unveiled! ;D
The screws do not come out completely don't ya know.
Yes correct, they are not meant to. To try to turn them out all the way out can lead to permanent damage and not being able to get them back in. This I have seen.
I agree, whoever recommended shrink tubing, is definitely a genius ;)
Yes, Dollar Tree is around here. Thanks for the decorating tips.
Keep having fun!!
Back with some update photos. In my last post I said I was resurfacing the platform and I did and it came out really good. Then I adhered the track down. The latest is adding the ambient running lights around the track. I had to redo them due to this new track. I put out the Ice Mountain and the Tower Mountain, and set the tunnel in place. I also "ballast" the track, I used my ballast creation it is a one of a kind. I tried the gravel, sand etc mix I had made originally but didn't like the effect and to be honest I would have been still doing it after Christmas. So I just mixed up the sand/gravel mix with the popcorn compound, some acrylic flat white paint and water. It matches the platform surface. I couldn't decide what to do on the inside rail ties so I dabbed it with white paint. I do need to give the track a good cleaning as I can see there is some paint on the rails. I do like how it turned out. Will take some daytime photo and post them another day.
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Thanks for your assistance!
Now I need advice/help on this new development. I do believe it's called not taking care of your soldering iron! the tip is screwed up, it does not get hot, I have to melt the solder on the side of it to get anything out of it. As you can see it does come off and I thought maybe it just needs filing? I don't have any way of grinding it. Should I just buy a new tip? If I do is there different size tips or are they standard size? I have lots of soldering ahead, now that it isn't so scarey, I ordered more of these quick disconnect plugs and some small gauge wire to go with them. Each light set, or string of lights I am using them so when it's time to dismantle every thing I just unsnap and put them away. The LED Christmas strand lights that light each house is normal UL Plug and they are plugged into my power bar. The tiny lights are all hooked to an adapter I think 3 volt and the adapter gets plugged into the power bar as well. Eventually once every thing is hooked/wired up, one flip of the power bar switch and Jamestown is lite up. I would like to run each of these quick disconnects to some kind of power strip that all lead to the adapter but I don't know if that is feasible or not.
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Connectors I am using.
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Layout and track look good.
Personally, I think you would be better off investing in a Weller Soldering pencil or station. Especially if you will be soldering often. But, using the name of the brand of your pencil, you could look up and see if replacement trips are even made for it. I cannot tell from your pics of it, but is there a little screw to hold the tip or does the tip unscrew from the pencil? Can you tell M?
yes there is a short screw that holds it in. I know this one wasn't very expensive. Will check around for the other brands. Thanks!
Martha-
Your soldering iron looks to me like one which cannot be replaced. However, you may be able to rehab it. Here's what to do: Heat up your iron and then wipe the tip firmly on a wet sponge or piece of course cloth. That should remove the majority of the insulating slag and old solder. If the tip cleans up nice from this, put a little flux on it and then a small amount of solder -- just so it gets shiny. If there is still crud on the tip after wiping it on the wet surface, you can try using some sand paper or a fine file to clean what remains. Sand or file the tip as little as possible but do get to clean metal. This isn't ordinarily a good procedure but it is justifiable here because your iron isn't serviceable as is and the usual cleaning procedure didn't do the trick. If you are able to clean the tip this way, go ahead and flux and tin it. If the iron is still bad, take it to s hardware store where they can tell you for sure if the tip is replaceable and sell you one if it is.
Jim's suggestion of a new soldering pencil is a good one if you are unable to clean up or replace the tip of your existing iron. Tin it as before you use it the first time. You will no doubt find some cheapies on the market but this is a tool which should be reliable quality. I bought an excellent Weller gun more than 40 years ago and it still works like new. I also have my Dad's old iron from when he built our house in the early 1950s and it is still good, too. (I'm a little about the insulation on such an old tool so I will change the cord before the next time I use it.)
If all of your accessories operate on the same voltage (don't assume here, check!), you an use a barrier strip or terminal to connect everything as long as your load doesn't exceed the ampacity of your low-voltage power supply. If you have different voltage needs, use a different power supply for each. If your power supply is inadequate, split the accessories between two (or more if needed) power supplies, using a barrier strip for each. Depending on whether you have a wall-wart power supply (the transformer itself plugs into the wall) or a power brick (there is a house current cord from the wall to the transformer and either a low-voltage wire from the transformer or low voltage terminal on the transformer) you can plug into the same power strip you are using for the train. It's possible to install quick disconnect plugs and receptacles between the wall wart or power brick if you want to avoid having heavy pieces dangling by thin wires, a recipe for damage. There are various styles and colors of crimp-on terminals so you can easily make the annual connections without having to trace what goes where. There is a special tool for the cramp-ons. It isn't very expensive, it does a great job and it also cuts wire and removes insulation cleanly so it's a good tool to have around the house. They are often packaged with a selection of cramp on pieces at an attractive price. You'll probably get all of the cramp-ons you need for this project and still have several left over.
The barrier strips are designed to easily attach one wire to another. However, you can use them for multiple connections if you run a wire from screw terminal to screw terminal on one side, making every screw connected to just one (the power supply). Alternatively, you can use wire to connect just as many terminal screws as you need for one power supply and others for a second or third power source. It all depends on how many power supplies and uses you have. Here's what these look like though you can find them cheaper:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/Barrier-Terminal-Strips/0000000678
You can also use the kind of connectors you show in your photo although they can be expensive if you are using a bunch. You can label your wires (this is a good idea in any case) with a piece of masking, adhesive or frosty cellophane tape. Just make sure you go all of the way around and double the "tag" where you write the wires' identities. That will keep them from drying up and falling off before next year's display.
It does look like you're making more good progress. I assume you have worked all of the bugs out of your track and that is very important.
-- D
M, as you can see, the opinion of the quality of a Weller soldering iron is high. I think it is hard to go wrong getting one. That said, if you are going to search for a new one, I have seen some on the internet that look good. Pay attention to any reviews on them. Trying searching "recommended soldering station " or "iron" in GOOGLE (of course right? ;).)
I have tried Doc's suggestion of filing/sanding a tip in the past and have not been happy with the results. Temporaty solution at best. Can you tell if materiel is missing from the end of the tip? This is common on lesser expensive tips. Never had to do that w/a Weller tip.
I looked up Weller irons, the soldering iron I have is a pencil type and I like the feel of it. The Weller's seem to be more like a gun, with trigger. Are they heavy? They look to be awkward to hold and use for someone with small hands? I also noticed while searching, there are different watts, what wattage would be what I would need? All the wires I use are 22 awg up to maybe 16.
This morning I told myself, where did you put that spare tip that came with my iron? and hey I found it! Until I decide what to do with either a new iron or this one, I will use this one HOWEVER I will properly prepare the tip and take better care of it. I just didn't know any better the first go around.
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As for the wiring, I wish there was a place here in Reno who could give me some expert advice regarding the wiring I am trying to produce. Yes there is a Radio Shack here, but the inexperienced help is no help whats so ever. There is an electronic store and I went there and they were quite rude. Charged me $5.00 cutting fee of wire I wanted (I didn't know Ace cuts if for free). I asked about what I was trying to achieve and the guy well lets say he was more worried someone was going to steal his stool behind the counter he was sitting at, as he kept gravitating to it.
D I get the terminal blocks, that is what I thought of but how do I supply power to it? run the adapter hot and ground to each side of the terminal? and the UL plug goes to the wall power. What the heck is a wall wart? I thought you were saying Walmart at first! ;D.
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Here is a picture of the power setup I use. The AC/DC adapter obviously gets plugged into house current. there are four leads off of that adapter. All had the pin plug to plug into the white boxes that were attached to what ever they powered. Like a strand of lights for instance. I have wired up the quick disconnect plugs to those leads to supply power over to Ice Mountain and the stings of lights on it. Also one goes to Tower Mountain to power the trees lights and spot lights. I like the quick disconnect method as Ice mountain and Tower mountain are removed and stored separately. To hook them up next time just snap the two connections together. Where I am not sure of is, if I snip the wire off before the 4 leads and hook it up to hot/ground on a terminal block and then run from there the hot/ground for each of the quick connectors? Gosh am I explaining that okay? I also don't know how many items can I run off that adapter? obviously 4 items but how many more? I don't have an omh meter and wouldn't know how to use one any how. I just know from experience if I don't run the lights through that adapter I will fry them.
Terminal connectors I have, I need smaller ones as the wire I am using is 22 awg and crimping them to ones to big for the wire stinks! Luckily I am now schooled in soldering the joints and shrink wrapping them so most connections are done that way. The only place right now I need terminals is to the power supply for the train. If I go to a terminal block/strip I will invest in the correct size.
The track night mare is solved. Little Prairie just zips around that track like no tomorrow. FINALLY success where that is concerned. Little by little Jamestown is coming along.
Not so that Weller just makes the gun style. Weller makes a variety of soldering irons, guns and stations, for a variety of uses and applications.
40W is my recommendation for the widest variety of uses. I would also recommend a station over just the pencil, but they do make a very affordable, good, 40W pencil.
So, is the bunged up tip, missing material from it? If so, since you have found the spare, I would toss it and not waste any more time with it.
A wall wart is a weird term for something you plug into an AC (110 Volt) outlet (like in your home) to charge up a cell phone, kids toy, Kindle, power tools that have batteries, a myriad of elelctronic run devices around the home. You have to check the black block where it plugs in to see what the output is, to determine if it is useable on the layout. Then you snip the end of the wire off where it plugs into whatever, so you can strip the 2 wires to hook into what you want. You can connect the ends to the barrier/terminal strip to provide power to the strip, then connect your wires that you want to power things, like lights for example, to the strip. Often, you will need to make "jumpers" to bring power to the other screws on the barrier/terminal or otherwise have a lot of wires bringing power to it, which you don't want.
That has been a long standing problem with Radio Shack. Sorry you got charged to have someone cut you some wire. Never heard of a place like that.
Yeah, Radio shack isn't the den of Electrical Knowledge it once was (before my time). I'm 18, and every time I head into a radio shack I fell like I blow their minds by heading past the consumer electronics displays to their dwindling supply of components.
I know, right?
Sometimes among those draws there are good deals on clearance items, but those finds are getting less and less.
Brick, have you noticed too that anytime you go in there, there is never the same staff as the time before??
If you've read the financial press recently, you will see that Radio Shack is deemed to be on th brink of bankruptcy. Frankly, if there are any components you think you might need, consider stocking up.
I have been aware of that eb and have been doing so where and when able. Thanks.
I was not, in fact, aware of that! Given that come next summer, depending on my Financial Situation (College has that unsure as of current) I am planning on performing the next step in getting my layout in a "Finished" (If you can ever use that term with model Rail) State, I might need to check again as they do, on rare occasion, have some harder to find components. It's a shame that they no longer have the walls of part but, in all honesty, I can't blame them. It isn't as profitable as it once was and, no matter our feelings, They are a business. Many markets, Electronics and Model trains Included, are becoming the domain of Internet shopping. I find that for bigger purchases I'm more likely to go to a store but for the small bits? Online tends to be cheaper. Case in point, I recently Built a new computer (6-7 months ago) I got those parts at a Brick and Mortar Store as their customer service and experience was valuable. But when I need a cable, or a flash drive? Internet it is.
Martha, it is looking amazing. I cannot speak on Weller irons as I have gotten away with my fathers 20 dollar Radioshack soldering iron this far but these folks tend to be knowledgable. That said, with spare tip in hand, good care of the iron you posses will do wonders. That said, let me just add this in case it has not yet been mentioned. When soldering, keep a metal object nearby (assuming you don't have an actual Stand with such a feature built in) When you aren't Actively using the iron, rest the tip against said object (I use a hammer) This will help prolong your iron's life.
I remember your layout last year and can't wait to see it this year, it is looking splendid. Sometimes, there is something uniquely charming about a little loop and some nice scenery!
To Martha : Checkout Micro-Marks website for a host of products for modelers . I would also recommend get a HO reference catalog from Walthers . They are the largest distributors of model railroad equipment in our hobby . I would also suggest getting some of the fine books from Kalmbach Publishing addressing various aspects of our hobby . These are listed in the Walthers reference catalog though most LHS also stock them for sale . No one starting any endeavor knew everything . Good Luck Jojhn2.
Brick, I had a 30 or 40 Watt Radio Shack soldering iron that kept doing the same thing that Martha's is at the tip. That is when I replaced it with the Weller WLC100. No regrets.
I agree with JH2s suggestion about knowing at the very least, about the existence of MircoMark. I have ordered some items from there for a reasonable price and reasonable shipping.
What a day it's been! My front tooth that is capped the cap fell off. Not knowing what to do. I got my super glue out to glue it in place. pricked a hole in the new tube of super glue, it rushed out. gluing my two left fingers together and my two right fingers together. After what seemed like an eternity and a half bottle of acetone my fingers were unstuck. Gluing the cap on has been successful so far, it hopefully with stay on until I get into the dentist.
Then after researching little wheat grain LEDs on line, I took a chance and went to radio shack to see if they had somethings I was wanting. 2 out of 3 items purchased are not what I wanted, can't use and not sure if they will take them back. I thought I knew what I wanted but as it turns out I guess I don't have a clue. I went there to get the wheat grain bulbs. I should have stayed with the ones I found at RS but then I found ambient light senor bulbs, they were clear a tad bigger I thought I could use them the same as the wheat grain ones but guess not. Sigh! I also bought what I thought was a terminal block. Its a plastic strip with 6 sets of screws. I thought (once again my mistake thinking) that this would work for me to join many sets of small wire lighting items and power it with one main line. That didn't work. I guess my problem is I am being cheap and trying to use one Lemax adapter to power all the lighting I have. One Lemax adapter will basically run 4 items. I have 10 or more to supply power to. So it was not a rewarding trip to RS for me. Most of the day was a crappy one! oh the soldering iron! !%#^& is what I think of it. I put on the new tip, watch how to videos on tinning it. It looked like it tinned nicely. I put it away and then when I got back from RS and attempted to use the piece of crap, the tip is dull, what I think is oxidized and if I put flux on it and wipe it with water it gets shiny but it really doesn't hold the solder on it and frankly I think I just have to give it up and go buy a better one than this! I found this review on the piece of junk I have when trying to find a replacement tip today.
"I have been soldering circuits for a while, and use a nice Weller Soldering station. Unfortunately when I moved away from home for college, I didn't bring it."(he went and bought the one I have 10 bucks at walmart) he continues on to say "I wouldn't even recommend it for a one time use. Especially do not buy if you are new to soldering. Borrow someone's soldering station so you can get a feel for how it should work. That way, you won't think soldering is as horrible as it was with this." my sediments exactly! horrible experiences!
Tomorrow I will be heading out to look for a Weller, guys who have used them over and over for years and years swear by them so Don and Jbrock I do listen and take in your advice.
So I am at a stand still so to speak. If I bought books on the wiring and stuff I still wouldn't have a clue what it says. Today, after reading some post about using the DC side Bachmann power supply I hooked up two tiny street lights to it. Ah they no longer work. That putrid smell of burned wires isn't pleasant. So I learned a lesson there.
This is the wheat grain bulbs I was hoping to find, wanted some in clear and RS didn't have clear so I bought the other thing that is a clear light or so I thought, it doesn't work. If any one could use them PM me and I will send them to you free of charge. I used one so I can't return them. I do need to know about these lights, when they are on and you touch the connection they are burning hot. Is that normal? Is that a fire hazard? Is too much power going to them? I have others and they all seem to do the same thing, hot.
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My cap just feel off my tooth, great!
Well don't need it to go check out Micro-Marks, thanks for the heads up on that site!
From the looks of things, you have those wired in parallel. Bear in mind that those tiny bulbs have very low voltage limits and that in parallel, that limit doesn't increase. They will burn out without a resistor of correct size. To Find the Ohmage of the resistor you will need you will need to know the voltage limit of those LEDs and anything else being powerd on that circuit, their Current Draw, the Volts proved by your power source, and the Amperage there for safe measure. Then, it is a matter of calculations with Ohms Law. I could get into more detail regarding the Electrical Properties but that will suffice.
If you are trying to power too much from one, yes, it will not work right, though I do not know the strength of you source nor how much you are trying to draw from it.
M, for the soldering pencil or station, check out AMAZON. They have some very good prices + shipping. Sorry about the cap. The clear bulb ("lamp" as Roger would call it) in your last post looks like an LED. Are the colored ones LEDs as well or some other kind of bulb/lamp?
i bought my weller at lowes for about $25. much better than the ones sold in radio shack.
a few years ago they used to sell "cold heat" soldering tools on tv. they may be in stores as well. avoid these like the plague. they do not put out enough heat to solder a feeder wire to a rail, and you'll probably destroy the tool if you try.
a soldering station setup is not essential. as long as you have some place to set the tip of the iron when not in use you will be ok. one word of advice, remove anything plastic including cars locomotives and buildings from the area you will be working. accidents can happen, and it is better to be safe than sorry.
Martha-
The barrier blocks are a series of pairs of screws. You can connect a power wire to one screw and its mate to the one opposite it. Since we need two wires to complete our circuits, you need either two barrier blocks or one which is large enough that you can use a few screws on one end for your positive line and others for the negatives. The way you distribute the power is to connect a power feeder wire to a screw and then run a second piece of wire (or a piece of flat brass which you have shaped to match the pacing of your terminal's screws) along one side so all of the connected screws are powered by the single input wire. Don't try to put + on one side and - on the other because opposite screws are connected and you will wind up with a short.
This way, you will only need to undo and redo two pairs of screws at the beginning and end of your layout's season, one for track power and one for accessories. You can even simplify that by using quick disconnects on each pair of leads from your power sources. Use different colors or styles so you have no uncertainty about what goes where after having the layout stored all year.
Jim's comment about sanding/filing soldering tips is right on the mony. I may not have been clear enough in saying that this is something which should only be done as a last resort.
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you about your question. We were out of town and I just conked out last night without even turning the computer on.
-- D
Hey guys, been busy working on Jamestown. Last night I soldered some wires that went to one of my lighted trees. they are the tiny I guess LEDS that do run in parallel on very small wire. Yikes what a test of my patience. I need to figure out a better way of doing this. trying to hold tiny objects and use a scalding hot iron, well it does lend it's self some excitement in my life! Today I think I solved one problem doing that small stuff, I do have a very tiny vise. that does come in handy. the other is I have some nice tweezers and I think if I glue some of the non skid stuff you use to keep things from moving around, this might help hold those tiny bulbs. It sure won't hurt to try that. I know they sell those "creatures" that have many arms sticking out with little vises or clips to hold things in place but honestly, it isn't in my budget or need to have one of those. Now the soldering station. wouldn't you know I JUST ordered a wire spiral holder to hold this darn cheap iron! So I will just keep looking for a reasonable Weller. There are two I am eye balling, one is red/black, has 3 LED lights to help see your work? I could use extra light but would they interfere with using it? The other is a blue/black one. A little more money so not sure if I need to invest in that one or not. Are all Weller tips interchangeable? Right now Amazon does seem to have the best price but I haven't gone to local stores here to price any. It is not on my absolute must have list at the moment. But it is not far from that list.
I also read/heard filing/sanding was not a good thing for the tip, but I did see some video the guy used a wire brush to clean the tip and side of the iron (where it gets hot), it was to remove any slag build up. That seemed to do something to this crappy tip. Once I did that, fluxed, sponged it, that bright shinny solder showed up. But it is still not working like I believe it should. So moving along......
Back to those darn lights they are running parallel are connected to a ac/dc adapter for 3 volts. I honestly don't know what volts they are, I wanted to make more strings of them as they are tiny little lights but not sure if it is worth trying. Lemax lights and similar strands of lights are 5 to 8 dollars a strand. I was hoping to make my own cheaper.
These are store bought lights that came on the tree.
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D - You totally lost me on your last comment about the barrier blocks! I appreciate you explaining it but it's like some foreign language your are speaking! The track power is a done deal. It is wired to the original Bachmann power pack I have and it works just fine for what I intend to use it for. NO other wire will be connected to it. Unscrewing the two leads when I put this away is simple enough for me.
I guess I just have to stop while I am ahead on the wiring stuff. Trying to learn from descriptions isn't going to work. It's okay, what I have now is workable. Soldering connections, adding more quick disconnects will improve what I have now and will look better than twisted wire and electrical gobs of tape! (none of the wiring is exposed, I just hate wires showing and untidy wiring.)
I keep thinking I want to expanded the back part of the layout with a longer tunnel, incorporating it into either ice mountain or Tower mountain or both. The back length is more or less wasted space. The tunnel now is 16-18 inches long, I can expand that to 36 inches, giving it a nice long tunnel for the train, a place to set more houses, people, pets or landscape. It's just a thought, I get many of those (thoughts) some turn out good some not so good!
Here is how the layout is now, the back will be flat against the wall once in place so...... not sure what I will do. Any suggestions?
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I would love to make street lights like Jonathan has done on his layout. OMG they are terrific. That is sorta where I was going with those wheat grain lights(bulbs/lamps). After reading his post on he did it, I understood up until he mentioned resistors! how do you tie in all the street lights to a power source? Guess that's one of those things I don't get or understand how to. Any good how to videos out there that might make sense to me? He used 30 gauge magnet wire and Radio Shack actually carries it, 4 different color/gauges but for 9 dollars I didn't buy any since I have no idea how to make us it or how to make the street lights. No one at RS had any idea how to use it. ???
Later gators.
you would be much better off using leds instead of bulbs. bulbs can generate heat, and burn out over time. leds do neither if properly installed. also, if you have an application requiring th use of coloured bulbs, over time the colour will diminish and you'll have touch up the bulbs. my grandfather used to have to do this with signals a lot, and he used nail polish, of all things. with leds, the colour does not fade over time.
M, while I would not disagree that a soldering station is not "essential", I would offer that for a little bit more in cost, a soldering station provides a greater range in temperature and therefore greater flexibility.
No, all soldering tips are NOT interchangeble. Tips are available and made to fit with their certain makes and models. Weller tips are availabe in many places, making life a little easier when looking to replace one or buy different designs for different jobs. I am all for when things make life a little easier. Speaking of which, I bought one of those "creatures" you mentioned (AMAZON-read the reviews first). It was inexpesnvie and I am glad I did, it's very handy. Has the magnifier and arms. Just have to keep in mind, it has limitations to the weight it will hold.
I would not look to buy a soldering device that has lights-you can get better light using a lamp that it is seperate. I posted recommendations many posts ago about how to clean a tip for a soldering device. I am going to be frank-the soldering pencil you are using is a no name, inexpensive, piece of you know what. I am sure you know the proverb "you get what you pay for"?
I tried to explain how to wire to barrier blocks prior to Doc's explanation. Maybe this will help-it is the screws that are vertical to each other that will transfer electricity-the ones that are horizontal to each other are isloated from each other, unless you conect them with wire or some other pice of metal. If words are not enough to give you an undestanding, supplement the words by going to YouTube, and between the sources, it should be made clear
I watched a how to video on wiring LED's and resistors. A bit confusing however I did go to RS bought some 5 mm and 3 mm LED's to experiment with. Knowing the right size resistor is important from what I gathered. RS employee had no idea what size I needed. I used a 150 resister with the 5 mm LED, soldered it up, put it to a 4.5 volt adapter wall wart (I think that is what this adapter would be called) and bingo! it works and doesn't get hot at wire connections. It also works on a 3 volt wall wart. Here is the end result.
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I want to make a "string of lights" to go on little trees at Jamestown, I will probably use 3 mm LED's, 5mm are a bit too big in parallel. I know the Ohms Law comes into play with this and I have found online sites to input the info to tell me the size resistor I need per LED. It didn't tell me how many resistors or size for several LED's in a row. I also would like to add street lights like Jonathan has made just a little larger. I think you will tell me it all depends on how many volts or ohms or what ya call them totals divide by something and this is what you need. Right? So here are my questions.
1. Do I need a resistor for each led I run in parallel? If so how many?
2. Jonathan used 30 gauge magnet wire for the street lamps, is that something I should use or will normal stranded 22-24 gauge wire work? The street lights I hope to make will be larger. Jamestown is not to scale to anything so making them to HO scale is not necessary.
3. What wattage soldering iron would do for the light weight soldering I do?
4. I bought (thought they were cool looking) 3 mm Ambient Light Sensor LED's at RS. I wired it up the same as the 5 mm however it doesn't work. Is this Ambient light sensor a special LED? Looks like the 3 and 5 mm except they are round and this is a square shaped. this is the info on the bag. 3 mm ambient light sensor, Dark Current 0 1uA, supply voltage 3 OVDC to 24 VDC.
I should point out that I used that piece of crap soldering iron to make one led light connection. Won't tell you how long that took with such a worthless iron but it did work at the end. I am still "shopping" for that Weller. I just not sure what wattage I need for this light weight work or if I should invest in a station, or just make do with what I have. You see I have decided (over this past week) I am moving back to NY. Was born and raised there and plan on croaking there, hopefully not for a long time (croaking), but now I need to save save save to do this. Here I am improving my Jamestown when I will be moving but trust me, Jamestown will be one of the very high on the list that is going. What ever I can stuff in my F150 (has cap on it) is going. That I will ship and me and my cat will fly home. It won't happen for 6 or more months but it will happen and Jamestown will be in that truck! So spending money right now on a solder station which would be nice is maybe not the best time to purchase.
I think that is about it for questions today. Thanks for any advice/help you guys rock (as usual).
Ops meant to ask, resistor, 1/8 or 1/4 or what size, carbon film? or is there other kinds? The ones I bought at RS were 150-ohm 1/8-watt carbon-film resistors.
To the best of my "limited" knowledge, Bachmann has never produced a unit that has both sound and smoke.
It might be possible(though I would not do it) to install a smoke unit in a Bachmann sound loco. How much it would save you to go that route versis
installing a sound decoder in the only smoke equiped loco that Bachmann makes, I am not sure. Like I said, I, personally would not do it.
Will
You're a little late to the party Will ::)
Good luck on the move to NY M. Would rather live there than NV IMHO.
You are right, resistance level/amount is important. I usually get the 1/4 ones in the pack, carbon film ones at RS. The bulbs you bought should say how many milliamps they are rated for. You use that number to help calculate the minimum rated resistor you need. I don't know the answer to your question about wiring them in parallel but you are on the right track about knowing some division and multiplication is needed.
Soldering device:40W, 40W, 40W; station, station, station.
so Jbrock27 I was thinking of a 40 watt station! what do you think? ;D
I love Reno, but my family is in NY. Every time my grandchildren experience something new their Grammy isn't there to share it. I think it's time Grammy gets to share more than once a year. But moving sure does suck.
http://youtu.be/ZcIcLUnlXwo
this video is what I watched regarding LED wiring. They were very informative to me and explained things in a language I could understand. Some of that Ohms Law language is gibberish to me! ;D I wasn't interested in the last part of it but then one never knows. The shrink tubing over the bulb sent me into a frenzy Sunday. Ice mountain has needed some extra sparkle to it but didn't know how to do that, well fiber optic is the answer and I am working on it, I bought a fiber optic light at the dollar store not sure why I bought it but now I am happy I did, I will be using those fiber optics and possibly the LEDs that came with it to produce that sparkle. It will be tedious to add each strand of that fiber optic but it will be worth it in the end.
Thanks for the input on the resistor info. I will continue to do research on what I want to produce.
I agree w/all points in your 2nd sentence.
You found another good video. Their tip about how to tell which side is negative is a good one. I use CAT24 wire or wire from the cable from a busted Play Station controller to hook up to my LEDs and motor contacts. I buy 5mm LEDs at RS bc that is what I usually find there. Also, one correction; I buy the 1/2 Watt resistors not 1/4.
Good idea on the fiber optics. On You Tube, Big Al Mayo has a vid that involves using fiber optics.
Jward could probably explain OHM'S Law best. He cites it all the time.
Thanks jbrock now giving a shout out to jward for advice/help, just sent Jonathan a shout out too. ANYONE that wants to give advice/their 2 cents have at it.
Here is what I want to accomplish.
I have ten telephone poles that circle my oval track layout. total around is 12 ft. I want to use 5 mm clear LED lamps per pole. I want to run them in parallel (not sure if parallel is the correct term, I want to run them like a strand of Christmas lights. From pole to pole.) I will be using either a 3.0 volt wall wart or 4.5 volt one, so here is my questions
1. What size wire should I use?
2. What size resistor?
3. How many resistors? 1 for each 5 mm?
4. Can all ten lamps be run on one wire to one wall wart? I don't mean one wire, obviously there will be two wires, pos & neg what I mean is one length of wire?
And last question, should I start a new topic called Jamestown or keep this one going? I've come a longgggggggggggggg way since my first posting on the topic, didn't know if I should start anew.
jbrock, I think fiber optics is out for now but will go watch the video you suggested. Once I realize how tedious the job would be I just came up with a new better plan gosh it is really cool.
Martha-
Ah, yes. Radio Shack. A place, like so many others, which used to be a great place to learn how to do things but now can't even make change unless the cash register tells them how much to give back to the customer.
How to wire the lights on the phone poles depends on whether they are plastic or metal. Plastic is far more likely but metal makes the job much, much easier and more durable.
If your poles are plastic, you'll have to run two wires from pole to pole. That's okay because you almost never see just one wire between poles. You can use either wire from your broken Play Station or magnet wire. The tiny stranded wire in your Play Station will be more limp and drape more naturally. Stiff magnet wire will look a lot less realistic although it will be closer to scale size. (If size appearance is a big deal, use the fine stranded wire but take the insulation off of it.) You can run all of the lights on one set of wires and you'll only need one resistor and power source. I can't imagine that you have a wall wart without enough power for ten LEDs as they only pull about 20 ma each. So ten would be just two-tenths of an amp. But check on this site for the formula for how to determine the size of your resistor. I'm afraid 150 Ohms will shorten the life of your LEDs.
If you have metal (probably brass) poles, you can use the poles themselves as one of your wires. Then you only have to string one to make the lights work. The small advantage of this is that wires on telephone or electric poles on a model railroad are very vulnerable to damage. It doesn't matter too much if you bring down "wires" made of thread or the new stretchy stuff which forgives being bumped, but a wire that's soldered to an LED and the wire preceding it means making repairs on the layout with components which go together much better at the workbench.
I think the best way to feed your LEDs on the light poles is to feed them by running two wires inside the poles or one wire and the pole itself. Then use thread or the stretchy stuff for the visible electric and telephone wires. That will protect your feeders so you'll only have to fix thread when (NB: I didn't say "if") the wires come down. If I were doing this and my poles were plastic, I'd cut off the tree at the top of the poles, replace the vertical shafts with brass tubing, bottom feed the power using one wire and the tube, glue the trees to the tubes, and run thread or the stretchy stuff for the lines from pole to pole.
Fiber optics are a fast growing part of model railroading. Nothing does what they do better, although they are really putzy to work with. You could do a fabulous job of lighting your Christmas trees with fiber optics but I'm afraid you'd go both blind and nuts before you finished.
It probably doesn't matter whether you start a new topic or not. Having one keeps everything together. Starting a new one might bring in some different responders.
-- D
This is my telephone pole creation. A Wooden Dixon Ticonderoga #2 Pencil, wrapped in a stripped tape with pop sickle sticks for the arms. Held in place with tiny wire and decorated with artificial garland! These are placed in the foam board along the tracks. There are ten in all.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20141001_155608.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20141001_155608.jpg.html)
A string of tiny LED lights are strung along each Telephone pole now and I want to add a "street light" to each pole like Jonathan has done on his layout. I can drill through the wood pencil to attach wire if need be and the second wire I figured to just run it down the back side under the platform or just run both wires top side. Running them topside would be the easiest as they are all taken down and put away after Christmas. Jbrock has the play station wire. I have 22 gauge black/red stranded for the main wiring jobs I do. As my layout is not to scale or authentic scale does not factor really into what I am doing.
RS was once "it" but now with ebay, amazon and a zillion other places to purchase electronics or electrical stuff it is no longer "it". The only reason I have gone there lately is to see if they have something and to buy one or two to experiment before I buy more. The last time I was in RS one of the 5 wandering employees asked me if I was paying with cash or a card????? I said card and he said okay as he was carrying an empty cash register draw to the employee only door. I still have no idea what that was all about. Maybe he was afraid the other 4 didn't know how to use cash.
So should I up the resistor? if so to what? they also confuse me with 1/8 watt, 1/4 watt, 1/2 watt. I believe 1/2 watt maybe 330 or so resistor? I know I am sounding like an old broken record asking the same questions over and over, I just don't like electric, I get nervous around it, connecting stuff even if the power is off. Turning power on and having it spark or blow something out, I just don't like it so....... I am so careful on what I should be doing. On that note I am off to RS, need alligator clips.
I guess I will experiment. and see.
Had to share, Jonathan replied back from his project, night lights and as I had hoped he was a wealth of info, not that you guys haven't been but he answered the questions regarding his lights and now I can imagine how he did them, how I can do mine. I am so excited. I went an ordered a bunch of 3 and 5 mm so I will have plenty to mess with. Tonight I soldered 9, 3mm red, green, yellow leds on probably 30 gauge wire to string on one of my xmas trees. It took 2 hours! My mind and eyes are fried! It isn't a pretty job and I won't be posting it here but it did give me practice and next one might go better. It is on a tree that will be in the back ground so it wasn't a complete waste. I got two new xmas trees lighted of course, bigger ones, 8-9 inches tall, one is decorated with little tiny bulbs the other is fiber optic, oh man is it cool. I got a few other things to and the lady threw in a few things I wasn't expecting, nice little surprise. I love buying on Ebay from every day people, they don't price their stuff like it's gold. I paid a fraction of what I would had if I went to a store or bought new on line. I don't think I mentioned I also put up a Big size house village as well. This one goes in a hutch and is not near detailed as Jamestown, and to be honest that is only due to space available. One of those trees just might go over to that one.
Next project is completing the massive wiring that is needed to make it much more neater. That is slow tedious work. Night all.
Martha-
Outstanding! It sounds like you are making much progress and, more important, having a great time. That's what it's all about.
-- D
I thought the Hokey Pokey was what it was all about?
Speaking of Ebay and street lights Martha, if you get tired of making your own, there is a seller on Ebay out of China that sells them made with LEDs for relatively cheap. They go by the funky name: wehonest_us.
That name made me giggle..
I'm glad to see you are enjoying this project.
..."most honerable sir, we honest!"
I bought some signal lights from them, red and green LEDs. Nice setup, detail and price, even though I could make them up. Just not sure for the same cost.
Thanks for the tip jbrock, wehonest_us ;D I may just need to resort to some of the stuff they have there. It's now a waiting game for me to get the led's I ordered. 100 pcs of 5 mm clear are coming from the New Jersey paid 3.79, the 3mm 100 pcs, y, r, g, b, white (20 ea) 1.95 are coming from China in 3 or more weeks. Shipping free on both. Might need to look into resistors next just not sure.
Questions-
1. can you burn out LED's by wiring them incorrectly or over powering them? Are LED's the same as Diodes?
2. It is okay to solder a resistor any place on the wire as long as it is on the negative side? I want to make "street lights" protruding off the side of each telephone pole I have on the layout. I was thinking of connecting the first LED "street light" to telephone pole 1, bring the wires down along the back side of the pole, under the platform and up to the next telephone pole, I was thinking of connecting the resistor to the wire where it is under the platform, just so there isn't a bulge showing. In all likely hood I will be stringing the lights from pole to pole like the strand of Christmas lights. These are pencils for the poles, I wish I could figure out how to remove the graphite in the center, then I could run the wire right up the center of the "pole". Okay so "talking out loud" on this wiring thing, icksna on the under the platform thing! What was I thinking? If this stayed assembled all year round I would do that but since it isn't, it sure would be a lot of work undoing each pole, so yeah forget that idea! But still need to know the distance requirement from led to resistor.
Thanks jbrock! now I have the hokey pokey song stuck in my head! Guess better than the one that's been stuck for over a week, "I asked the witch doctor and he told me what to do"
Yeah Friday!
You are welcome.
LEDs are: light emitting diodes
I do not believe it matters even whether it is on + or - leg/side even, so it also should not matter whether it is placed close to or away from, the LED.
Turn yourself about... :D
I will add, that when I install them, I put the resistor on the + leg of the LED. I am sure someone else can say definitively whether which leg matters or not. I cannot honestly remember why I chose the + side.
Here is some more web info:
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/219
So a few days ago I stumbled upon a how to on youtube about LED's, didn't bookmark the page dah! but finally found it today and wanted to share. For me, he explained quite a bit that I actually comprehended. He went into detail about LED's, resistors, volts, amps, omhns law, etc etc. He has numerous tutorials. He isn't a model railroader, just does something with model space ships I think. The basics is what he talked about. Here is the site
http://youtu.be/6Msko3wgets?list=PL244BE83D6709F44E
He answered the question about can I burn out LED's by over powering and yup you sure can and yup I have. Bummer cause I think I burned up a really cool set of three lights that changed colors and was going to make Ice Mt really cool. I believe I messed up by using the wrong wall wart. Live and learn they say!
I liked the fact that he kept saying you don't need to spend a fortune on most things to get the electrical stuff working. He isn't a fan of RS if you watch enough of his tutorials and to be honest RS has priced themselves out of business the way I see it. Well enough about bashing RS.
I now know I will be using a resistor for each LED I use on the on the telephone pole street lights. That will save me time and money in the end. there are a total of 10 LED's so it won't be an expensive thing to do.
I have been racking my brain over the lamp shade effect on the street lights I am adding. Jonathan used plastic wheels and brass ones he got on line. My layout is not to any scale, wish I had know about that way back when but now I am just going with what I like. Those shades are going to be too small I think, I got 5mm LED's as I wanted them brighter than the 3 mm. So....... I think I have an idea to try. Bottle caps, I don't drink anything that has them but my neighbor is very fond of MDG or is it MGD? Miller beer! and I have asked him to save me some to experiment with. I might have to do a little bending to get them back in shape but we will see. If it works great if it doesn't oh well. I thought of dimes or penny's but I'd hate to go to jail for "defacing us currency" it's bad enough I rip the tags off the pillows and haven't gotten caught yet! Paint can make anything look cool so I will let you know how that turns out. I am trying to keep with the old fashion theme of the village.
I have read, went over or just glanced at many many many post on this HO forum all the way back to it's beginning. Jim Banner was well versed in model railroading it seems but after a while he wasn't posting. Does anyone know if he is still into the hobby. Gosh he was a wealth of information. I haven't gone thru all the post I'd be a there a long time doing. I was just curious if he still is involved.
Tonight since its already dark out, winter isn't far away gents. I am going to make list of all I need to wire up so I know how much wire, shrink tubing, wire connectors, etc I will need. Tomorrow is a new day and my weekend so I can get started on that wiring project.
So for now........ you put your left foot in, you take your left foot out...........
Martha-
Try oversize sequins for the pans for your lights. There are some which are about 1/4" and 3/8" diameter which should work for you since your layout is sorta HO. Use 1/2" sequins if your poles are oversize. You can get them even larger if you are really using pencils for the telephone poles.
Unfortunately, model railroading has lost an amazingly knowledgeable and kind man, Jim Banner. I've never heard a single negative word about him, seen him behave disrespectfully or fail to have great information to offer. He was a really wonderful part of model railroading and this web site. I know I can speak for all of us in saying that we are acutely aware of and deeply saddened by his passing.
-- D
I was afraid those words would come from my question, his passing. I am sorry to hear that. Thanks Don for letting me know. Peace be with him.
MGD=Miller Genuine Draft. I am a Sam Adams man myself.
Did you notice how your video man is using a Weller? And "helping hands"? ;) Also, did you catch how he showed a tip that had lost material from it, like the one you were showing us?
Good videos. They guy likes to talk, which is always helpful when watching a how to video.
Martha-
While we're talking manufacturers, Wen is another soldering iron or gun company with quality merchandise. You might also consider the house brands from Sears, Lowes and Builders Square. Those tools are usually made by Wen or Weller but at some savings on the cost. Also, be sure to check out the soldering kits. You'll often find an iron stand, solder or other items bundled with the main event for only a few dollars more than a gun or iron alone.
-- D
I never heard of Wen but as I mentioned before, Weller tips are easily found, in a lot of places. That would be my main concern with other brands-the availability of replacement tips. That said, I do like SEARS and LOWES products.
Wen is sold by Menards and Home Depot in the Chicago & Rockford areas in Illinois. Radio Schack was a sort of late entry into the Chicago area back in the early 1970's having bought out Allied Radio at that time . There were a good number of consumer electronics companies in the area at that time most of which are now gone sadly . I sometimes do business with a Company called Newark Electronics , they are a nationwide distributor and may be in your area. John2.
Thanks. I am not in the market for anything by Wen, but a GOOGLE search does not turn up any soldering tool made by them other than the gun style. No pencils no stations.
Had a fairly good weekend wiring as planned. I have run into one problem and not sure how to avoid it in the future.
One of the new Xmas trees I bought is powered by a 4.5 volt battery or adapter. It has a rheostat on it to increase/decrease the blinking. I don't want anything powered with batteries so opted use the adapter. I didn't want it blinking either so I snipped the wires from the battery box, hooked up a 4.5 volt adapter I have. I turned on power and bingo I have lights. Well for a short time, one by one (before I even noticed) the LED lamps burnt out. I cut the power and cursed quite a bit to be honest. What the heck? This tree actually used a resistor for each lamp. The lamps must be 1 mm, they are so tiny like a grain of rice. I figured this tree would not be a problem hooking it up to the adapter as there were resistors used. What caused them to burn out? It was a pretty tree, still is but won't be lighted any longer. I am cursed when it comes to this wiring stuff!
Martha-
Did the lights work okay when they were connected to the battery box? If so, but they failed on the transformer, they were probably getting less than 4.5 volts from the batteries. Assuming you don't have some kind of exotic batteries, there should have been three batteries in the box.
I've never seen a rheostat-like gizmo which could modify the speed of blinking. Possibly it was a real rheostat which gave less than the full output of the batteries (again assuming there were no exotic batteries and you had three batteries in the box).
Also, the lights went out one after the other because they were wired in such a way that the current increased as the load was lessened. I had some low-voltage garden lights which would do the same thing. They were just great as long as I had lights which totaled near the adaptor's capacity but they would begin burning out as soon as one failed. If I didn't notice that one had burned out I might not have noticed until more were out. The speed of the burning out accelerated as each bulb failed.
I think you need to find out just what your bulbs want for power. You can hook them up to your power pack and then slowly turn up the power to the point you have the right power. Of course, you won't know how much power that is with most power packs. It would be better to use a voltmeter in the circuit. You can also see if the load is written anywhere on the light string. Theoretically, the output from the power brick should tell you but I have a hunch that may not be so in this case.
-- D
Don I have attached photos of what the box looks like. I now believe there is something in that box that regulated the power. that green power board was probably it. The adjustable dial on the side is how to regulate the speed of the blinking. I used the word Rheostat maybe that was the incorrect word?
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/2014-10-07084411.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/2014-10-07084411.jpg.html)
this is side view of the box showing the the power info. I bought it used on ebay so it didn't come with a box or any other literature.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/2014-10-07084946.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/2014-10-07084946.jpg.html)
and yes everything worked fine and dandy until I messed with it. It took 3 normal AA batteries.
I am just frustrated because I don't understand power, current, volts, amps ohms law, etc, etc and each and every time I wire stuff together I burn it up and it is useless. I guess I need to break down and buy a volt meter and ohms meter. Are there any out there that you or others recommend? Once I have it I can watch how to videos to know how to use the darn thing. Possible this will save me from wrecking more stuff I really liked.
I was looking at this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Voltmeter-Ohmmeter-Ammeter-Multimeter-OHM-Voltage-Current-Tester-XL-830L-/291110298613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c786a3f5
I just remembered I want to go shop for a helping hand apparatus. any recommendations on that? With a magnifier? with a light? Will something like this be sufficient?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quality-Soldering-Iron-Stand-Helping-Hand-Clamp-Clip-2-5X-Magnifying-Glass-EM-01-/311057271518?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item486c754ade
As I always say later gator.
The helping hands device looks similar to the one I purchased from AMAZON. It looks good to me and a good price.
The meter: looks okay to me. Just read the negative reviews first on that seller (I see both of these sellers have a lot and do a LARGE volume of sales). Makes sure there are not several reviews that slam the meter. Myself, I like to look for such meters from places like HOME DEPOT, LOWES or SEARS. You might find a better one from one of those stores, w/o the risk of being stuck w/a bum one from an Ebay seller. I do not like the Harbor Freight meters, in case anyone asks...
Martha-
My response under the general category applies here as well.
The VOM Meter you reference should work just fine for you. As did Jim, I'm a little concerned about the sellers' negative feedback level. Yes, he's a high-volume seller, but 75 negatives and 79 neutrals in a month is HUGE. That means a store open seven days a week is sending home five unhappy customers a day. Such a store would be out of business in no time. He can exist on eBay because the number of potential customers I almost limitless. Now many of the complaints were about shipping charges, which shouldn't be a problem with your listing as it is free shipping, but there are also negatives about items which don't work from new and which he didn't correct. I'd try to find something similar from a better seller.
Many folks on this board swear by the VOM Meters sold by Harbor Freight. They are rather modest tools but they do the job. They often have one for free with a coupon or for just a few dollars.
Good luck!
-- D
Doc, I thought the last time the subject of HF meters came up, you were in agreement with me to avoid them, given negative reviews by customers on those ??? ; mentioning something to RichG along the lines of, he may have been fortunate to have gotten ones that worked...
Well I am taking a chance on buying the meter on ebay, it isn't the ones I shared earlier, I found some video on youtube discussing how to choose the right one. Well it's like choosing the right vehicle! Way to many options, cost, user friendly or not, heck I don't even know have the words he was using to describe them the ONLY thing that got my attention is making sure there are 4 connections to it. Let me see if I can remember how he describe that. Separate connections for volts and amps. He said you forget and have it on amps and testing volts you could blow up what ever you were testing even blow off your hands. Well the later part of that statement got me. I actually like my hands so...... I found one that the connections(lead wires) for amps and volts were separate. I must confess I did not listen much farther on that Youtube tutorial once I noticed it was 59 minutes long! He mentioned some other figures and the one I got had those too. The only thing he insisted on YOU have is a auto reader. Probably a good thing but I am not to lazy to turn the dial to a setting. That's what I got out of that part, convenience. So we will wait and see. will be here tomorrow.
Now Don I asked this question on Jonathan's forum and realized I didn't give info that might help you to tell me the answer. The question was, I got the string of lights to work on the 4.5 v adapter. They actually will do the extra functions as well, blinking etc. How many extra things, strings of light or a mini spot light, or maybe a lighted deer can I hook up to the same adapter without problems? Here is the info that might help to get an answer. The adapter input 120V 60HZ 300mA output 4.5V 1000mA. I didn't mention either that this adapter once had 4 male jack connectors that worked with any of the battery/adapter type lights or gizmos for Christmas villages. So if I am thinking correctly I should be able to hook up 4 whatevers?
Oh Saturday I will be joining the helping hands group! No more struggling to hold things to solder. Next investment will be a solder station but that is down the road. Someone gave me a 40 watt Radio Shack pencil soldering iron and it works okay. Better than the crappy one I had.
Later gator
Martha-
If your output is 1000mA you can go crazy connecting things. LEDs pull about 20mA so you could, for example, connect up to 50, 20mA lights to it. It's not a particularly good practice to run a circuit at its limit but you certainly wouldn't want to exceed the limit.
One problem might be that everything will flash, including things that you don't want to flash like interior lights in structures. However, you should be able to run all of the flashing lights from one adaptor and non-flashing lights from another.
Jim-
I mentioned the Harbor Freight VOM meters because they are available and very inexpensive. I wouldn't rely on one in long-term service myself, but they should be OK for someone who is new and needing to spend quite a bit of money on expanding her railroad right now. If she finds one of the freebie coupons she'll have something which should work for her for a while until she gets some other expenses out of the way.
It's good that you asked for the clarification. My earlier post wasn't clear on this point.
-- Doneldon
I would just hate to see $$ go down the drain for one, when the $$ could have been put toward a better, longer lasting one.
Marty, good call on the Helping Hands. I am sure you will like using it. Any further progress on a new soldering implement?
Hello all, Happy Post Columbus Day! Apparently my helping hands and multimeter just arrived on Plymouth Rock, not sure if it was the Mayflower, Santa Maria or Pinto that brought it ALL the way from Los Angles to Reno but it is showing they should be delivered today! Now normally I expect delivery to take a while however, these items were shipped early last week from LA. I could have driven to LA and back sooner than these packages are coming. So I can't tell you how I like the helping hands nor the multimeter. I have trekked on with Jamestown, always something to do on it. Rearranged the buildings and that meant moving the 2 strands of Xmas LED lights I use to light the inside of them. I just poke holes in the foam and bring two lights each for each building up from below. Simple enough to do however it's back breaking work. Bent over for a few hours well, not a spring chicken any longer! I have rewired trees and other lighting.
I have not progressed at all on the street light project. I know I will need that helping hand for that tedious soldering work and the meter! I experimented with metal beer bottle caps and wooden bowls for the lampshades. Easy choice once I shorted out one of the LED's on the bottle cap..... wooden bowls it it! ;D Yes I could still use the bottle caps just needing to use more caution, but not worth the extra time and effort.
LED lights - I was experimenting with I think it was 22 gauge rubber coated black/red wire but it was too thick to work with. So off to RS for some magnet wire. Three pack, 26, 28, 30 gauge. Very nice stuff but didn't notice it said in fine print, scrape off coating before soldering. NO biggie just an extra step to do. I first started out with 30 gauge, a 5 mm LED and a 150 resister. I am using a 4.5 volt adapter. It was very dim. :( I then went up to the 26 gauge 5 mm Led (I am using 5 mm for the brightness I want) no resister and yes I have a burn mark from it. Holy cow it got hot. I was also at the time experimenting with the bottle cap and well...... I just stopped the whole thing. Until I get my meter today I can't tell what resistance I need or have or even ask more questions or have answers to give until I have that meter to use.
Someone gave me a RS soldering pencil, 40 watt and you can replace the tip. It works much better than the one I had. I will eventually get a work station just not now.
This post is more of what I have been up to not a help me!!!! post. I will be back with more questions and answer segment once the Conestoga wagon delivers today. ;D ;D ;D
Later gator
Quote from: Martha on October 14, 2014, 12:56:40 PM
LED lights - I was experimenting with I think it was 22 gauge rubber coated black/red wire but it was too thick to work with. So off to RS for some magnet wire. Three pack, 26, 28, 30 gauge. Very nice stuff but didn't notice it said in fine print, scrape off coating before soldering. NO biggie just an extra step to do. I first started out with 30 gauge, a 5 mm LED and a 150 resister. I am using a 4.5 volt adapter. It was very dim.
Martha-
The insulation on magnet wire is similar to varnish. It scrapes off easily which means it can short if the coating is scraped off during assembly or use.
You shouldn't need a resistor for an LED with a 4.5 volt power supply.
-- D
D- Conestoga Wagon delivered FINALLY today ;D ;D. So naturally I have questions.
Multimeter, has me a little bit afraid of it, keep reading Warning you could get seriously hurt using it. From what I briefly have read in manual and on line most of the bad stuff is to do with the AC which I am not interested in. It is going to be dc volts, resistance and maybe ohms. Right that I will most likely be using? Instruction manual vague on using it.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20141014_174236.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/IMG_20141014_174236.jpg.html)
Here is the front of it. upside down horseshoe is OHM's right? That's the only one I think I know! ;D
symbol V with dash and dot dot under it is???
symbol V with squiggly line is ?
hFE??
Would I need to know what F stands for?
Symbol A squiggly line is?
Symbol A dash with dot dot is?
Music symbol arrow thing is?
do I need to know what the PNP NPN top right is for? (transistors?)
Is there any good how to youtube videos out there that explains this stuff in layman's terms?
The only part I think I get is the red wire goes to the V ohms arrow connection and the black goes to COM connection. not sure what the 20A or mA is for but I had previously read getting a multimeter with the mA separate from the V ohms connection was a good idea. Once I know what all these symbols stand for I might be able to figure out how to test for the Ohms law. Of course not even sure if I need to know about the Ohm's law is.
I feel rather foolish asking these questions but I have come to rely on you all to help me out.
One more question for the night. Why would the 5 mm LED get so darn hot? Is it the magnet wire is too light weight to care the power? D said I won't need a resister for the LED with the 4.5 v adapter. I am hooking up 10 to 12 5 mm LED's to that adapter Still don't need a resister?
Thanks, going to play with the helping hands, at least I can figure that one out! OH I also got my multicolored 3 mm lights so I can make a few more strands of lights. that will require a lot of soldering, good practice for me and now that I have a couple extras hands I sure be pooping in tall cotton as my 85 year old friend says! where she gets these phrases? I love them.
later gator
Martha-
Don't let the VOM meter intimidate you. The low voltage you'll be dealing with is harmless. Even 110 volts is safe as long as you're not standing in a bathtub. Heck, it will feel unfriendly if you make contact but it won't exactly hurt.
I have to relate a story from a young woman friend who went to college where I did. She had an older radio which she left in her bathroom so she could have music while she got ready for classes, dates or whatever. Anyway, she was sitting on the toilet micturating, as we all must do, and trying to adjust her radio. However, each time she began to pee she got a mild shock and her flow stopped abruptly. This is because her muscles responded to the current by clamping down. This happened several times before she realized what was going on.
-- D
Thats actually quite fascinating! Martha, don't worry too much. As doneldon said, the voltages (and more importantly amperage's) that you will be dealing with won't hurt ya. I'll share a tale of my own. Ya know those plug for the back of many devices or power strips with the regular prongs on one end and two holes on the other? well when I was little (6 or so) I stuck my tounge in those holes... for some reason... Got a shock to the touge but was no worse for wear. While I wouldn't reccomend that of course, it is proof that you are fairly safe. At the levels you are working with, you are more liley to blow out an LED than yourself.
Quote from: Irbricksceo on October 15, 2014, 08:39:13 AM
Ya know those plug for the back of many devices or power strips with the regular prongs on one end and two holes on the other? well when I was little (6 or so) I stuck my tounge in those holes... for some reason... Got a shock to the touge but was no worse for wear.
Brick-
We were both braver and dumber where I grew up. We put spit-on fingers into lamp sockets to see what would happen. For some reason, we thought that would change over time so we did it many times during our childhoods. (Like I said, dumber.) If I get myself buzzed now I don't even notice it right away.
-- D
Thanks guys for the reassurance I won't zap myself to death! I do find it interesting how some videos do more bad than good. I guess if I was messing with 220 standing in bathtub in a lightening storm I might get hurt. As it is, I just found the definitions of the symbols I didn't know what was what. So it will take a little while to figure out how to use the VOM.
Tonight I soldered a bunch of quick disconnects to more lights. Yes almost looking like Clark Griswold's home! ;D ;D ;D Helping hands was a life saver as a lot of these have 30 gauge wire. Yikes it's like trying to connect strands of hair. I actually think I am almost done with the lights, well except for a spot light, street lights and hmmm what else? My power strip is almost looking like Clarks' in the garage scene. plug on plug on plug. There are 3 adapters, 3 110 and the train power box. I probably need to add a second power strip just so it doesn't look quite so dangerous.
D you gave me quite a compliment a while back and I hadn't thanked you for it. It really meant something. I put a LOT of hours in this each year. My choice, and I now know how much time, energy, money, thought process and enjoyment Model railroaders enjoy.
So tonight was a very productive night and my eyes, back and brain is tired out. I did enjoy the shock stories. I guess all kids have done something similar I know I have! "If I get myself buzzed now I don't even notice it right away." I had to laugh, if we were any younger I would of been presuming you meant you were getting high on drugs!
Tomorrow night...... think I will whip up a new strand of lights with my 3 mm lights I STILL have not messed with.
Later gator. oh haven't seen/heard from jbrock27 in a few days hope all is okay with him.
Quote from: Martha on October 15, 2014, 11:03:47 PM
Helping hands was a life saver as a lot of these have 30 gauge wire. Yikes it's like trying to connect strands of hair.
"If I get myself buzzed now I don't even notice it right away." I had to laugh, if we were any younger I would of been presuming you meant you were getting high on drugs!
Martha-
I hope I won't create any anxiety here, Martha, but do you know that soldering isn't usually enough to hold things together? For connections which T off of another wire you wrap the end of the side wire around the straight-through wire before soldering. For wires connected end to end, bend a short ell on both wires' ends. "Hook" the two wires together at the bends and then wrap each end around the straight part of the opposite wire. If you have any questions about this, Google "Western Union Connection."
-- D
Thanks for the tip. I normally solder them end to end and then shrink wrap it all together. I will definitely go check out your suggestion. Thanks!
I see some very irresponsible statements in this thread. 110v is NOT safe, it can kill without any water involved. Any voltage over about 50v should be considered unsafe depending on the circumstances.
Dave
Quote from: daveb on October 16, 2014, 02:44:45 AM
I see some very irresponsible statements in this thread. 110v is NOT safe, it can kill without any water involved. Any voltage over about 50v should be considered unsafe depending on the circumstances.
Dave
Truer words ever spoken!
110v is a killer, lost a friend to it and he was an electrician. Drilling in the attic and sweat dripped down and zapped him.
Anyone have a quick tip how to scratch off the varnish on magnet wire Quick and Easy? I making my own light strands for a tree and gosh scratching to get a good connection is taking forever. I am using 3 mm leds and I think it is 30 gauge magnet wire. ALSO quick tip how to quick and easily remove the outer skin of 30 gauge wire? Wanting to do the same thing.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/Jamestown%20Village/2014-10-18100850.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/memartha/media/Jamestown%20Village/2014-10-18100850.jpg.html)
Thanks.
Martha,
I usually scratch off with an xacto blade or use a low flame and melt it then using gloves slide the melted part back.
Read on for more suggestions...
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/best-method-to-strip-enamel-off-magnet-wire.29861/
Jerry
M, you may want to check Home Depot or LOWES for a stripping tool that will strip the insulation off that small a guage wire. I bought one at LOWES for about $9.00 but it strips down to 26 guage wire, both stranded and solid. I don't use as small as 30 guage, at least not yet. Having a good tool like this makes the job easy and saves a lot of headache. It is an investment, like a good soldering tool.... ;)
I think Jamestown has got it in for me! I spent Friday night and most of Saturday wiring up this and that. They worked great at my work table. Took them over to Jamestown and some worked, some didn't! I am scratching my head wondering what the heck is going on. Is it possible that I am tying in too many lights on the one 3 v adapter and the power is just not getting to all of the connections? The adapter I am using (have 2) are Lemax 3.0 volts. They have 4 spliced wires on each adapter. Meaning there is one main wire then it breaks off to 4 separate wires. they have plug ins that are meant to plug into one Lemax something or other, say a strand of lights or a lighted tree. I have numerous splices off each of the 4 wires. In all I have at least 14 lights or flickering campfire or reindeer or...... you get the idea, stuff that need power. Not to include the street lamps. They are going to be on one adapter by it's self (well maybe!). I got so frustrated I just gave up on it and walked away. Haven't touched it since Saturday. I know I probably need to check what I am drawing with my meter but I don't know how to do that. I am afraid to hook up a 9 volt adapter I have and see if that works. and to be honest that means more wiring to make it work with all I have, I don't mind doing that if that will make everything work. I don't want to over power the leds and burn them out. So I am at a stalemate. Sorry to be so electrically challenged! and can't seem to figure this out. I was thinking maybe the 4 spliced wires off the main one I need to eliminate and just hook up directly to the main line to the adapter? Does that make sense? Well any who that is where I am at with Jamestown. NO WHERES.
Later gator
You know that saying "sleep on it" well I did just that and I am not sure if it was a dream or one of those wake up and the little light bulb goes on over your head, either way it had me check (later in the day) what adapter I was using. It appears I have three (not sure where the 3rd one came from) doesn't matter, 2 of the 3 are 3.0 volt with 500 mA the 3rd one is 3.0 volt 1000 mA. I recall Doneldon mentioning the 1000 mA would power a lot of LED's. Sure enough when I checked, I had most of my connections going to the 500 mA adapters. I just had too much on one. I wondered why it was so hot to touch. So tonight with refreshed confidence, I rewired a larger majority of the lights/accessories to the 1000 mA. I had great success in doing that. I am still using the 500 mA's for some of them. I also did a little research on some of lights/accessories I have that actually wanted the 4.5 v to work, they worked okay on the 3 volt but the 4.5 definitely has them working brighter or as I figured they should be working. I would of done more tonight but spent 3 hours with the company accountant going over our books. I am not a bookkeeper per say but I have learned a lot working with the accountant. So my brain is pretty much mush. I stopped while the getting was good on my wiring. Tomorrow is another day! I am almost ready to get to the street lights!
Night all.
Martha-
Great work. Your story demonstrates that you understand the principles. That's an important accomplishment.
You can light most bulbs, even LEDs, with undervoltage as long as it isn't too severe. One good thing is that bulbs which are fed even a little below their design spec last much, much longer than bulbs run at full speed. (There's a good message for your car. Run the dash lights just a bit below full and you'll never have to deal with the frustrating and tres expensive business of replacing dashboard light bulbs.) And overvoltage will burn bulbs out in a hurry so make sure you don't over feed your bulbs.
LEDs last, effectively, forever under the intermittent demands of model railroading so there's not much to gain by under feeding them. But remain vigilant to overvoltage with LEDs. It will blow them just like overvoltage blows conventional incandescent light bulbs.
-- D
Hey fellows just wanted you to know I didn't toss Jamestown out on the curb! I got to a frustrating point and stopped and walked away from it for a week or so. I am back at it again. I have only managed to do 2 street lamps seems I get wrapped up doing something else on it. Friday is Nevada Day and it's a paid holiday for me so I will have a nice 3 day weekend to work on it.
I do have three questions
Question 1- one of my 3.0 volt adapter (has the four legs running off from it) gets extremely hot when plugged in. I mean can't touch it hot. I had it plugged into a power strip with other adapters. What is causing only that one to over heat? It's not supplying power to more lights than others. And I noticed I had it plugged directly into the wall outlet and it didn't over heat. Should I be concerned about it heating up like it does? There is no wall outlet close to where the layout goes so I have to use the power strips for power.
Question 2 - now that I have my multi meter how do I measure how many volts a small string of lights are using or how to measure the volts used for any of the dc things I have on Jamestown? I can't seem to find any help on youtube about it, just how to check a batteries voltage. and I never understood why do they show videos showing you how to check the battery, why not just look on the side of the battery and read what volts it is?
Question 3 - Here's my scenario and then the question. I have 22-24 things that need power, strings of lights, tiny lamppost, flickering bonfires,skating rink, spot lights, lighted trees, hedges and bushes oh and Santa's sleigh and reindeer. they are either 3.0 or 4.5 volts. I have three 3 volt adapters each of the adapter has 4 wires running off from them and 1- 4.5 volt adapter with the 4 wires running off from it. I have wires running everyplace. They are all connected by quick disconnect connections so when I break this down the only thing left on the platform is the track. My question is, is there some way I can reduce all the adapters, still supply the power needed for each thing and not burn out anything? I have a 9 volt wall wart, can I hook numerous 3.0 and 4.5 volt things up to it or will it over power and burn out all of the stuff?
I know this is not a typical situation MR's might run into or I assume you wouldn't run into this type of problem. I am all about the lights never too many as far as I see it but the logistics of connecting all of them neatly, efficiently and with out breaking the bank is overwhelming me.
Lastly I will share this little story. I have one lighted tree that part of the 1 mm led's burned out, not sure why anyhow I added another string of lights. Not wanting two connections I spliced the string of lights to the existing ones. working with wire the size of hair is a real b. After several minutes of matching wires to wires to get them both working I was successful and soldered the connections. After much trial and error I have learned not to shrink wrap or tape wrap the connections until I know for sure they are going to work. So once they were working I tape wrapped them, careful not to disturb the welds or cross wire them. Finished that and I was a happy camper. I took that tree over to Jamestown to place it and run the wire under the platform and connected it to one of the adapter connections and nothing!!!! I stood there looking at in disbelief! I checked to be sure it was connected tightly, those little quick disconnects don't always snap together, yep it was correct. I took it back to my work table, undid the tape, checked the connections and using the adapter I keep at the work table it worked fine and dandy. Now I am getting pee owed. wire back together put it back in place hook it up and nothing! The vision of Clark Griswold came to mind when he so proudly put those two plugs together and nothing worked. He stood there jiggling those plugs cursing under his breath, he drop kicked Santa and his happy reindeer to kingdom come and ........ then Ellen flips the switch in the garage! Yep I proudly admit I didn't flip the power strip on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gosh what a dork!
Later gator
Martha-
1.) I'm concerned that one of your power supplies is getting so hot. Two explanations come to mind. First, check the ampere output on the power supply. It's possible that it puts out the right voltage but has very little oomph in the form of amps and is therefore straining to power the lights. If this is the case, reduce the load on that power supply by removing some of the feeders.
The other possible cause of the high heat (warm is OK but you are describing way too much heat for long-term, safe, reliable operation) is that the power supply is in the process of self destructing. There should be a thermal limiter or a circuit breaker to protect the power supply but it clearly isn't working. You might try checking if it overheats when plugged directly into the wall. I'm guessing it will.
If reducing the load to what the power supply can safely supply doesn't cool the power supply down, scrap it. The unit is potentially dangerous (fire) and it has no easily serviceable parts inside so it's best to just replace it.
2.) Touch the red probe of your VOM to the wire which feeds your load, at the positive terminal of its power supply or right before the load itself. Touch the black probe to the other end of your load or the negative terminal on the power supply. When you do this, make sure nothing is connected to the power supply except the specific load you want to measure.
3.) It's not rally practical to run both 3.0 and 4.5 volt circuits from a single power supply, especially one which doesn't match either voltage. You'd have to separate the two voltage "groups" and then use resistors to get 3.0 volts on one and 4.5 volts on the other. You might well find that feeding everything from a single power supply puts too much demand on the power supply which will overheat it, cause it to cut out to protect itself or just fail. If I were you, I'd try to find a single 3.0 volt supply which is beefy enough to meet all of the 3.0 volt items (add the amps of every load and make sure the power supply has at least that much amperage -- a cushion of 20-25% would be better), and I'd do the same for the 4.5 volt items.
I'm glad you haven't given up on Jamestown. You've come a long way with it and you seem to be enjoying the process, well, more or less. As for not having your power strip flipped on, be aware that the most common reason people call appliance repair is that they haven't even plugged the thing in. At least you did that!
-- D
D - the adapter ready to crap out is where I was thinking, had a power supply for a laptop do that. Odd thing is, when plugged directly to the wall socket it gets the normal warm, also on a extension cord with only one 3v string of lights on it it stays warm. Hook it to the power strip which is feed by a light weight extension cord it gets hot, even with just one 3v something hooked to it. So I think I will just eliminate it. It was a 3v with 500mA and it was designed to run four feeders (thanks for using that word, for the life of me I couldn't think of that word). So it should of operated at least 4 something or others without overloading it. I will keep my eye out for a 3 v with maybe 2500 mA? If I knew how to measure all the mA's I am using I'd get a better idea what size I needed.
Tonight I dusted off Prairie, cleaned off the tracks, hooked up some Christmas cars to her and she has been just traveling around Jamestown for quite some time. I have 90% of the lights I want on Jamestown, just the street lights remain. The more I get into this train stuff the more I am leaning towards a full blown HO scale train layout. Jamestown will stay Jamestown but maybe my Grandson and I can work on a new layout once I move back to NY. I have plenty of stuff I don't use on Jamestown but sure could go for a MR layout. And I will stick to the HO Scale on that one.
I am still trying to figure out that multimeter but for now just leaving it alone until I can grasp it a little better. I figured out where to set the darn thing to check the voltage but not sure which one will measure the mA.
I thank you for your reply. Haven't heard from jbrock27 hope all is okay in his neck of the woods.
Later gator
Martha-
It could be that running many low-voltage circuits off of your power strip would heat something up but I would expect it to be the wire to the power strip, not one of the power converters on the strip. And, truth be told, you shouldn't be able to overheat your power strip with just low voltage uses. I'm still thinking that the three-volt power supply is not long for this world.
It would be very easy to incorporate Jamestown into a larger layout. Just run a turnout from the outer loop to the new work. You could have a mainline connecting Jamestown and a second platform with a loop of its own. That would let you turn trains around. The connecting track could be as long as you want or have space for. This would work well for continuous running, maybe even for two trains simultaneously. Connecting the two loops with what would look like a double track would make both loops and the connecting tracks a giant oval. It would be what we call a dog-bone shape track plan. WARNING: Model rails are always quick to tell others how easy it would be to expand their layouts, especially when the model rails won't have to do the work. However, in this case I'm giving you the true skinny.
I've seen Jim on some other threads here so I'm pretty sure he's okay.
-- D
Hello there! Hope turkey day was a good for you all. As for me I have spent 4 long days decorating inside and out for Christmas. I am worn out and I am still not done! Jamestown is almost ready for it's debut. I need to place the residents and other things and then video it for everyone to see. I have shown it to a few neighbors and they all seem to like it. "Prairie" is the hit of the town. I am so pleased that I purchased it, she just pulls her cars around town with ease. I hope my move back east will find me a larger place to live so I can start increasing the town. I think I might just have gotten hooked on this Model Railroading stuff. It was suggested a while back I could incorporate Jamestown into to a larger layout. And it struck me "hey I can make it into a four season layout". You know, winter, spring, summer and fall. just travel through the seasons. My mind just gets overloaded with all the ideas of how to do it. I will let you all know when I have uploaded my video. Later gator. Martha
Martha-
It's good to see you back. I was a little worried that you had given up.
It's very difficult, impossible, really, to have a layout change through the seasons. However, it's certainly possible to have separate seasonal scenes through which your trains run. This works best if there are distinct separations between the scenes. A tunnel through a mountain ridge, going around a sharp curve, even having picture frames for the different seasons can work.
Our Thanksgiving was a wonderful one. But then, with turkey dinner and grandchildren, how could it be anything else?
-- D
Hey fellows I'm Back! Gez I was all the way on page 4 or so guess it's been a while. Need opinions, working on my 2014 Jamestown video. I want to add train whistle to it. Which whistle sound is more authentic for a Steam powered locomotive? The shrill one or the deep bass sounding one? Also, do steam engines use bells or just whistles? I know the deisel sounding ones aren't it, just not sure about the "pitch" of the whistle. Did that make sense? I may not be a MR but I know you all will be viewing this and would like to have it as authentic as I can. I've relied on your input, helpful tips, opinions and suggestions, etc. You will never know how much I appreciated it all. So bring it on with your suggestions/opinions on which whistle I should use and also about the bells. sneak peak of Jamestown. Not sure if the video will play good or not. let me know. later gator
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/th_VID_20141219_180905.mp4) (http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/memartha/VID_20141219_180905.mp4)
You may not be using DCC but the following will answer your questions and some you may have not yet asked.
Click Here (http://www.soundtraxx.com/choose/choose2.php) Selecting the Right Sound for your Steam Locomotive
Click Here (http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami/tsunamisound.php) for sound samples
Hey, Martha, it's good to hear from you again-
Steam engines used whistles and bells. The bells were used when the loco, with or without a train, was moving at slow speeds or was in a place where safety concerns dictated an active warning system, like a station, a yard or street running.
Have a wonderful holiday and enjoy Jamestown.
-- D
FINALLY!!!!! Jamestown 2014 complete. I cannot believe how long this took! I Thank all who gave me support, tips, opinions, ideas, and just plain thoughtfulness. I also gave a nod to Jim Banner if you notice. He really knew his stuff didn't he? Well I am sure he has a train operating in his happy resting place. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and God Bless. I can't wait til next year!!!
http://youtu.be/dV7waLsnU5I
Martha-
Jamestown looks like a great place to live. Do you know if there are any houses for sale or apartments for rent?
-- D
Doneldon, I posted Jamestown in the general forum as well as this one and some of the other guys replied there. Jbrock, jward and Jerryho had kind words as well as you did. I think there is a small home over the tunnel for sale, not sure if the rumble of the train would be a problem but then again, a train guy would probably find it soothing! Happy New Year, already think of 2015. Thanks again!