I notice that Bachmann has been upgrading paint, chassis, and DCC options on its HO GP40, 50, 30, and 35. However, exactly which loco has a one-piece frame and which has an 8 pin plug on the DCC board is very difficult to determine. The latest version of the GP30, for instance, is not described in standard product descriptions as DCC ready, although it has an 8 pin socket.
In an earlier post, someone noted that although the GP40 is described as DCC ready, it does not have an 8 pin socket.
Would it be possible to make it clearer which locos have which features? Among other things, it would affect what type of decoder -- hard wire or 8 pin plug -- I would order when I order a particular loco.
Bachmann has been making very worthwhile improvements to its product line, but in some ways it isn't making these improvements as well known as it could.
Quote from: jwb on August 22, 2014, 02:58:30 PM
In an earlier post, someone noted that although the GP40 is described as DCC ready, it does not have an 8 pin socket.
And the Yardman responded, "DCC Ready" does not necessarily mean that the loco has a plug and play socket. It means that the electric motor is isolated from the die cast chassis making the installation of a DCC decoder possible without modifying the way the electric motor is mounted in the chassis.
Quote from: AGSB on August 22, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: jwb on August 22, 2014, 02:58:30 PM
In an earlier post, someone noted that although the GP40 is described as DCC ready, it does not have an 8 pin socket.
And the Yardman responded, "DCC Ready" does not necessarily mean that the loco has a plug and play socket. It means that the electric motor is isolated from the die cast chassis making the installation of a DCC decoder possible without modifying the way the electric motor is mounted in the chassis.
However, has not "DCC Ready" come to accepted in the market place the loco has an eight pin plug, at least from every other manufacturer is that not the implication?
If I purchase a loco marketed as "DCC Ready", I'll darn well expect come with eight pin plug and if it doesn't have one, it goes back as false advertising. Sorry Mr. B, but that's the way it is.
Cheers
Roger T.
Newer models that are DCC ready feature the 8 pin socket. Older models that were produced in the past may not - sorry Roger but that's the way it is.
Quote from: rogertra on August 23, 2014, 12:57:18 AM
However, has not "DCC Ready" come to accepted in the market place the loco has an eight pin plug, at least from every other manufacturer is that not the implication?
If I purchase a loco marketed as "DCC Ready", I'll darn well expect come with eight pin plug and if it doesn't have one, it goes back as false advertising. Sorry Mr. B, but that's the way it is.
Actually some manufacturers such as Athearn utilize a 9 pin socket in models they call DCC ready, while others simply require soldering the wires to the appropriate location on the board on their DCC ready models. So everyone does not have an 8-pin socket in models they advertise as DCC ready contrary to your belief.
However, I am wondering if it would be possible for someone at Bachmann to compile a list of all the HO locomotives currently in production that feature an 8 pin socket. Either that or notate the presence or lack there of in the product info.
As I just posted - all new DCC ready Models feature the 8 pin socket. So basically all new models announced will have the socket.
Quote from: Yardmaster on August 23, 2014, 12:18:58 PM
As I just posted - all new DCC ready Models feature the 8 pin socket. So basically all new models announced will have the socket.
That's what I figured. Thanks for the clarification.
Cheers
Roger T.
I appreciate the clarification, although it still leaves me up in the air a little bit: if I go to the Bachmann store and read the description for the GM&O GP30 I have and know it has an 8-pin socket, I read "Features include: all-wheel drive DCC-ready with connection points for installation of a 6- or 8-wire harness decoder super-quiet,..." So this isn't completely accurate -- and in fact, based on that description, I ordered a hardwire DCC decoder, not one with an 8-pin plug. This is a little inconvenient, and it could have been fixed with somewhat more conscientious copywriting. It makes a difference, bottom line.
So now I'm thinking of ordering an Amtrak GP40. Can anyone clarify if this has an 8-pin plug or contact points? Again, this will make a difference in what I order for a decoder, and is something Bachmann should be making easier for its customers.
just a thought.....
some manufacturers make decoders that have a 9 pin plug on the decoder itself. these have a detatchable wire harness. wire harnesses are available with either the 8 pin nmra plug, or the loose wires. if you use one of these types of decoders, all you have to do is change the harness not the entire decoder if you buy the wrong one. digitrax and tcs decoders are made this way, others may be as well.
worst case, you can order a decoder with the 8 pin plug, and cut it off if you don't need it.
Well, yes, but if the product description is accurate, I don't need to do all those work-arounds. That was my point. But if you think about it, aren't my questions about this entirely on topic and appropriate? So how hard can it be just to answer whether the Amtrak GP40 has an 8-pin plug?
I see and agree with your point. It can be frustrating, can't it? >:(
Quote from: jwb on August 24, 2014, 11:20:31 AM
Well, yes, but if the product description is accurate, I don't need to do all those work-arounds. That was my point. But if you think about it, aren't my questions about this entirely on topic and appropriate? So how hard can it be just to answer whether the Amtrak GP40 has an 8-pin plug?
Why can't you purchase the locomotive first and then purchase a decoder after you have the locomotive in hand to check for yourself? Why do you need to purchase the decoder right away before you even have your locomotive yet?
Quote from: ACY on August 24, 2014, 07:31:09 PM
Quote from: jwb on August 24, 2014, 11:20:31 AM
Well, yes, but if the product description is accurate, I don't need to do all those work-arounds. That was my point. But if you think about it, aren't my questions about this entirely on topic and appropriate? So how hard can it be just to answer whether the Amtrak GP40 has an 8-pin plug?
Why can't you purchase the locomotive first and then purchase a decoder after you have the locomotive in hand to check for yourself? Why do you need to purchase the decoder right away before you even have your locomotive yet?
Why should he have to make two trips to the hobby store? One to buy the loco and take it home, open it, then back to the store to buy the decoder.
I'm sorry but I'll stick to my earlier statement. If it states on the box the model is "DCC Ready", then it should mean it has an eight pin plug, period!
I realise that all manufactures say it just means the motor is isolated from the chassis by I feel that's misleading.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: jwb on August 24, 2014, 11:20:31 AM
Well, yes, but if the product description is accurate, I don't need to do all those work-arounds. That was my point. But if you think about it, aren't my questions about this entirely on topic and appropriate? So how hard can it be just to answer whether the Amtrak GP40 has an 8-pin plug?
the problem as I see it then, is whether the locomotive in question was produced before or after the changeover. you'd probably have no way of knowing without looking inside. sometimes dealer stock can sit on a shelf for years, sometimes it turns over fast.
I think the question is whether it's worthwhile to post a question about a simple technical issue on a forum where a Bachmann rep is theoretically available to answer questions about simple technical issues. There's a sub-question about why some guys seem to feel that questions about simple technical issues are out of line on a forum where they should be answered.
This is disappointing: first, I'm not getting an answer, and second, that several guys seem to think I'm out of line to want to make a simple DCC install simple.
Quote from: jwb on August 25, 2014, 06:12:14 PMThis is disappointing: first, I'm not getting an answer, and second, that several guys seem to think I'm out of line to want to make a simple DCC install simple.
If you are purchasing the locomotive in person at a hobby shop then take the locomotive out of the box and remove the shell to check what decoder is necessary and check for adequate space. If you are purchasing online or mail order, order the locomotive first, then remove the shell to check then order the decoder. That seems pretty simple to me.
It would make sense to do this regardless of if you knew whether the locomotive had an 8 pin socket since you still wouldn't know how much space was available for decoder installation until after you removed the shell of the locomotive and checked.
jwb-
To coin a phrase, I feel your pain. It can be awfully frustrating trying to get an answer to what seems to be a simple question when all you get seems to be a runaround. But in this case, I don't think anyone is trying to be obtuse. On the contrary, it looks to me like people have tried too hard to be helpful.
What you need is a straightforward answer about what kind of connection you should expect to find on a, well, two, particular locomotives. Someone who actually has one or both of those can give you the short and sweet answers you seek. Instead, several posters who don't have the locos and therefore cannot give you a definitive answer have chimed in with unhelpful observations. And then there was the soapbox digression about what "DCC Ready" means or should mean.
I'm afraid that I don't have the right locos, either, so I can't offer any help. But I can suggest that those without an answer keep their lack of an answer to themselves so, hopefully, someone who can answer can squeeze in. Also, let me ask you to understand that things can get crusty or strange on any Inet board, including this one. Have a little patience with us, forgive us our follies and don't hesitate to come back. There's an awful lot of good stuff on here and it would be a shame to miss out on it.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on August 25, 2014, 06:50:34 PM
Someone who actually has one or both of those can give you the short and sweet answers you seek.
I have a Bachmann Santa Fe GP-30 and it already has DCC. I just got a Bachmann Erie Lackawanna GP-35 and it already has DCC. I have a Bachmann Norfolk Southern GP-38-2 and it already has DCC. I have a Bachamnn Santa Fe GP-40 and it already has DCC. I have a Bachmann Norfolk Southern GP-50 and it has a split frame design and is not DCC ready by any definition. I also have a few older models of GP units all of which are split-frame and not DCC ready at all.
Quote from: jwb on August 25, 2014, 06:12:14 PM
I think the question is whether it's worthwhile to post a question about a simple technical issue on a forum where a Bachmann rep is theoretically available to answer questions about simple technical issues. There's a sub-question about why some guys seem to feel that questions about simple technical issues are out of line on a forum where they should be answered.
This is disappointing: first, I'm not getting an answer, and second, that several guys seem to think I'm out of line to want to make a simple DCC install simple.
actually, you are not giving the answer you seel because we really can't give one. yardmeaster, who is a bachmann employee, has given the best answer any of us could have given. the design has changed, but the packaging hasn't. so otherwise identical locomotives made a couple of years apart could have a different setup inside. the only way to determine what you have is to look inside.
your question was not out of line, and i don't see anybody here taking you to task for asking it. it was, and still is, a valid question. unfortunately, it is also one without a simple answer.
Call the service department. They can answer all of your technical questions.
Quote from: AGSB on August 22, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: jwb on August 22, 2014, 02:58:30 PM
In an earlier post, someone noted that although the GP40 is described as DCC ready, it does not have an 8 pin socket.
And the Yardman responded, "DCC Ready" does not necessarily mean that the loco has a plug and play socket. It means that the electric motor is isolated from the die cast chassis making the installation of a DCC decoder possible without modifying the way the electric motor is mounted in the chassis.
It is common mainstay in the industry! Come on! many motors are isolated from the frame in the industry that are dc.The 8 pin or 9 pin plug is the standard, not an isolated motor!I have seen this before as an answer and it is funny you still use it ;D
Jack
Friend,
There is an earlier post about this issue with a gp 50 .Seems the part numbers did not keep up with the change over and hopefully the catalog people will catch it next time.If there is some sort of a issue with a new purchase contact the service manager she is the Best ;D
Jack
Quote from: ALCO0001 on August 27, 2014, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: AGSB on August 22, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: jwb on August 22, 2014, 02:58:30 PM
In an earlier post, someone noted that although the GP40 is described as DCC ready, it does not have an 8 pin socket.
And the Yardman responded, "DCC Ready" does not necessarily mean that the loco has a plug and play socket. It means that the electric motor is isolated from the die cast chassis making the installation of a DCC decoder possible without modifying the way the electric motor is mounted in the chassis.
It is common mainstay in the industry! Come on! many motors are isolated from the frame in the industry that are dc.The 8 pin or 9 pin plug is the standard, not an isolated motor!I have seen this before as an answer and it is funny you still use it ;D
Jack
With all the train forums I belong to, I see a few times a year. Many make "assumptions" about different facets of DCC. The digital version is quite different from the analogue version. That will vary among different manufacturers. Here comes the question, why can't they all be the same? lol
Manufactures expect modelers to have some knowledge of the hobby.
Google should be a persons best friend.
Rich
I thought DOG was man's best friend?
Just remembered, when i bought my first HO Spectrum 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 with small tender DCC ready with eight pin socket, there was not enough room for a plug in a sound decoder and speaker, even though there was a speaker hole. They were designed to accommodate the up coming SoundTraxx decoder.
Once I knew what I had, I then ordered the Tsunami Micro and hard wired it.
End of subject.
I did not have what the Bach-Man would say was an agenda.
Rich