Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: Pospete on September 29, 2014, 06:01:33 AM



Title: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Pospete on September 29, 2014, 06:01:33 AM
Hi Everyone, G'day( as we say down here in NSW, Australia)   So I got stung by a second hand ebay deal, on a supposed A1 Outside frame Consolidation.  I know the previous owner ripped me off on 2 points.  One of the Tender trucks was broken, and of course the final drive gear, which I figure he musty have known about because he neglected to locate the coppery washer piece within the gear box.  I have read the post and seen the pics about removing it. I know there is a plastic gear available from another company, but I wondered if anyone had tried and was using the Bachmann Metal replacement gear?     
     I am still building my railway and have only got down about 70ft of track so far, but I have named a few places. The Redback's Trestle( yes with resident Red backs) and of course Black Snake Curve, and yes within a few minutes of putting the curve in a rather large Black Snake appeared and curled up under the boards the curve is on.   I'm trying to make the garden kangaroo proof!  The Emus are ok tho.   I have a pet Australian Magpie( I rescued it)  tho he(it) does not share my interest in trains.


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: petertoot on September 29, 2014, 09:08:26 AM
Hi there,a fellow Aussie,I'm in Melbourne ,I have to connies ,the drive gear,axle from bachmann works a treat,and once done it will do many a lap around your layout,I think they are available from parts dept,I got two about a month ago,fitted it,runs great,cheers Peter in ozzie


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on September 29, 2014, 09:30:37 AM
Hi Pospete!

Congratulations on getting track down and your new but broken Locomotive!!!  Both the replacement plastic gears from aftermarket sources, and the metal gears from Bachmann work just fine.  I have used both types fixing them for friends,  all report great results.  The tender truck is a fairly frequent problem, with several fixes.  The easiest is to use 2 part epoxy and glue the parts together.  the other is to use epoxy putty to build up the broken off area and redrilling and then using a slightly longer screw.

Welcome to the forum. 

Cheers & Beers from up over ::) ;D

Bill


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on September 29, 2014, 03:27:46 PM
When one of the tender trucks on my Connie broke, I replaced them with some LGB D&RGW coach passenger trucks that I had.  Later I was able to buy a pair of caboose trucks that worked.  The LGB passenger trucks weren't all that bad.  No one ever noticed, or if they did they didn't comment.  Narrow Gauge railroads repaired their rolling stock with what ever was handy and might work.

The caboose trucks were actually a very good match to the tender trucks on many of the D&RGW NG tenders.  You might see if Bachmann has any spare trucks for their NG long caboose.

Here is a picture of the tender with Accucraft caboose trucks.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/chuckn/TEND_TRK6401.JPG)

These are other options, if you can't fix yours with epoxy and a longer screw.

These trucks have been a problem for most, if not all, Connie owners.  

Chuck

Note added

When my gear on my axle broke, I had Barry Olsen of Barry's Big Trains in Phoenix, AZ replace the entire drive unit with his upgraded drive train.  That is another option.   It is a bullet proof solution. 



Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Pospete on September 29, 2014, 07:43:01 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies.  Peter, I believe we may have done business before c/o Flea bay.    Thanks Bill and Chuck too, tho Chuck I did want a Barry's Big Trains Conversion but he retired and it's not currently available.  Hope fully someone out there will carry on producing them.
          I'm just going to open it up and check the other gears, if nothing else they could do with some grease no doubt.  I'll order the new axle and all will be good.   
          I'd offer free beers all round but postage costs being what they are...............................

                    Pete


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on September 29, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
A few years ago there was a misunderstanding about Barry's retirement.  Unfortunately, I believed the story and passed it along.  He only cut back.  He stopped advertising, but still was producing units, as of a year or so ago.  A search of the Bachmann archives should produce contact information. 

He usually looks at this site and he may well chime in. 

Chuck


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: JerryB on September 29, 2014, 09:46:46 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies.  Peter, I believe we may have done business before c/o Flea bay.    Thanks Bill and Chuck too, tho Chuck I did want a Barry's Big Trains Conversion but he retired and it's not currently available.  Hope fully someone out there will carry on producing them.
          I'm just going to open it up and check the other gears, if nothing else they could do with some grease no doubt.  I'll order the new axle and all will be good.   
          I'd offer free beers all round but postage costs being what they are...............................

                    Pete

Here is a link to Barry's summary of what he is doing:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22251/where-have-you-been-are-you-st/view/post_id/257867 (http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22251/where-have-you-been-are-you-st/view/post_id/257867)

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on September 29, 2014, 10:30:34 PM
Thanks Jerry.

Chuck


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Pospete on September 30, 2014, 04:00:01 AM
Well that's awesome,   I sent him a message, and that should sort it out once and for all.   I did notice a complete lack of grease,  and general wear, so it can't be too old.  I was more gutted having put sound in it of the Tidal Wave type to not actually get a chance to listen to it, well apart from standing sounds.   
        Again I want to thank you all for your replies, it has been a great help.   For a while I thought I had a dud, so it's nice to know that it can be made better too.
                     


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: davepenn7 on November 04, 2014, 02:01:55 PM
Hello Everyone,
    I recently purchased a used 2-8-0 Bachmann Connie. I believe it is a C17 but am not sure. It has been running great for 3 months until today. After about 1 hour of operation it will run in reverse but won't run forward. The individual I purchased it from said he had the gears replaced with metal gears, however I can't be sure with out taking the engine apart. Does anyone know where I can get a manual? Also any thought why it run in reverse and not in forward?

Thank you for your help,
Dave P.


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 04, 2014, 02:58:26 PM
Dave,

Hard to tell the problem from afar, but does it try to go forward then stop, or is it totally dead going forward?  Is the motor running in forward, but no movement??

What power supply are you using? AMP rating?



Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: davepenn7 on November 04, 2014, 03:48:02 PM
Hello Bill,
    Thanks for answering so fast. The engine just start forward and then stops. I am using a Bridgewerk Magnum 200 and its rated at 15amps.
Thanks Dave


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 04, 2014, 04:12:23 PM
Dave,

At this point I am just guessing, but I am thinking that the side rods may be binding in some way.  If the motor runs but the loco is not moving then there is a gear problem.  If it stalls and blows a breaker it  is most likely a bind or short circuit of some type.  Your Bridgeworks is not the likely problem

Sometimes the side rods bind up.  check to be sure all screws and nuts are tight. check to see if the side rods are straight(sometimes they get bent due to handling especially the thin pieces ). Try running forward at the slowest possible speed while looking carefully at one side. Then do the other. Try to see what happens just at the moment the loco stops.

When it tries to go forward does it blow or trigger the circuit breaker?   Yes or No  Does the motor completely stop or does it keep running even though the loco is not moving??

Bill


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: davepenn7 on November 04, 2014, 04:55:17 PM
Hi Bill,
Thanks again. I have placed the loco an an elevated track and while pushing the loco backward I examined all the external rods etc on both side of the loco. Every thing seems to be working (no binding or loose screws). When trying to run the loco forward the circuit breaker did not trip. I can hear a noise but don't know if the motor is trying to run.

Thanks,
Dave


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on November 04, 2014, 05:38:51 PM
If you can hear something when power is applied and it doesn't move, most likely there is a problem between the motor and the drive axle.  If you have a metal gear, it might not be on tight and is just slipping.  You may have to go in and look at the gear.   

You can also take the bottom plate off the gear box.  Gently hold the gear with one hand and turn the wheels with the other.  If one moves and the other doesn't you have found your problem.  Or with the cover plate off and the engine upside down apply power and look for what moves and what doesn't.  You may have to have the tender hooked up.


There are some other gears between the motor and the axle gear.   There were some problems further up the gear chain that required tightening.  I did this repair ten or so years ago, but I had instructions on how to do it and I can't remember exactly what I did.  I think the instructions were on this site. 


Chuck


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 04, 2014, 05:55:36 PM
If you could push the loco backwards with the power off it is definitely a gear train problem.

Can you push the loco forward with the power off?


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: davepenn7 on November 04, 2014, 07:32:41 PM
Hi Bill,
   When i push the loco backward the wheels turn. When I push it forward the wheels do not turn.

Thanks
Dave


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on November 04, 2014, 08:05:17 PM
If the external drive rods do not bind. There is no other potential problem location than the gear train.  Something must have broken that prevents the gears from going in the opposite direction and is jamming the movement.   Other than that I'm out of ideas.

Chuck


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 04, 2014, 11:00:12 PM
Dave,

There is gear damage for sure. you will need to get it apart to see what is going on.  Bachman, I think still has all the gears available.   If it had the brass gear replacement, it may have been reassembled improperly.  Hard to say for sure. 

I will try to find the dis-assembly instructions tomorrow, unless you already have them.



Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: davepenn7 on November 07, 2014, 04:48:10 PM
Thanks to Bill & Chuck,
      I removed the gear cover and it does have a metal gear. With the cover off wheels turn freely in both directions. I then replaced the gear cover and it won't go forward. I have the instructions for replacing the plastic gear. Looks like I need to replace other gears between axel gear and motor. Do you have instructions for this?

Thanks for your help,
Dave


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on November 07, 2014, 05:10:58 PM
Here is a link to the instructions I used when I had to work on the gear train in my Connie ten or so years ago.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,20755.0.html

I'm at a loss as to why it is binding with the cover on and not with it off.  Maybe the cover is pushing the gear and axle up against something in the frame.   I'd look there first.

Chuck


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 07, 2014, 06:39:12 PM
Remember,

With the gears engaged the wheels should NOT TURN AT ALL with the motor turned off. 


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on November 07, 2014, 07:16:26 PM
Bill, I had forgotten that the Connie didn't freewheel. That means that the forward movement might be correct and the freewheeling backwards isn't.

My Barry's BBT conversion does permit the wheels to rotate manually, but not easily.  It is not freewheeling by any means.

Chuck


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: electriccharlie on December 13, 2014, 01:42:41 PM
Hi everyone, I have received the replacement axle ,with metal gear, from Bachman parts and am ready to move all the parts over from the old axle. How do I get the screw out that is in the end of the axle? I have tried overwhelming force and stripped the first screw. Is a drill bit the only option or is there a less savage method?


Title: Re: 2-8-0 Outside frame Consolidation Final Drive Gear.
Post by: Chuck N on December 13, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
You might try gently heating it with a soldering iron.  It may have been glued and a little heat might soften the glue.  A drop of acetone (fingernail polish remover) on the screw might also loosen it.

Chuck