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Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: trainstrainstrains on October 12, 2014, 10:51:37 PM



Title: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 12, 2014, 10:51:37 PM
My Swannee River Special , recently bought on ebay pre owned,  Seems to get tired after three or four rounds on a circular track, it starts to slow down and stops, when I then reverse  it runs normal , when I go forward the same happens again , runs normal, slows down and stops.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Kevin Strong on October 13, 2014, 03:32:58 PM
When you run it in reverse, does it continue to run well for long periods of time? (i.e, hours on end as opposed to just a few minutes going forward?)

Also, if this is a starter set, are you using the starter set power supply and track?

One thing you can try, though I don't know if your loco has this switch or not. Open the smokebox door on the front of the loco. There should be an on/off switch for the smoke unit there. There may also be a switch that says "NMRA/Large Scale." Depending on the vintage of your loco, this switch may or may not be there. If it's there, throw it the other way. What this does is reverses the polarity of the power going to the motor. (What was "forward" on the power supply will now make the loco run in reverse.) Now run your loco. Does it do the same thing, does it do the same thing, but run well forward and poorly in reverse? If you don't have this switch on the loco, reverse the leads between the power supply and the track. It will effectively do the same thing.

What you describe is very odd behavior, so I'm leaning towards the power pack being somehow involved in all this. The power packs that come with starter sets aren't exactly known for their ability to handle large amounts of current. My initial guess would be that there's something when running forward that's drawing a fair amount of current, causing the power pack to bog down. When running in reverse, that extra load isn't there for some reason, and the power pack runs well.

If you've got a volt/amp meter, measure the current going to the locomotive. If you've not done this before, disconnect one wire from the power pack to the track. Attach one lead from the meter to that terminal, and the wire to the other. That puts the meter "in series" with the circuit, and all power will go through the meter, letting you know how much current it's drawing. (Apologies if you knew this already.) If you don't have one, head over to Harbor Freight or Radio Shack and get one. You're going to need it.

Compare the current running forward versus running in reverse. If you can switch the polarity, compare the current under those circumstances as well.

Later,

K


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 13, 2014, 04:24:30 PM
The locomotives does not have the extra switch in the front, only one for smoke so I switched polarities on the power supply,  same thing good backwards , stops forward after a short while, I have bought everything second hand on ebay , no starter set, the rails are Aristocraft brass but used and not so clean, the ties have no screws , I have them but have not yet installed them , the power supply is LGB 50081, the circle has 14 rails, my two other locomotive work well on this track. I have no volt meter but I will borrow one on tuesday or Wednesday and will write.
Thank you again.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Chuck N on October 13, 2014, 07:35:46 PM
Most major track manufacturers have 12 or 16 sections to a full circle.  I think that you have either two few track sections, or two to many.  If you can measure the diameter of your circle we should be able to tell you which is correct.  Is there a part number on the back of the track?  Failing that measure the length of the inside and outside rails.  With that we should be able to figure out what you have.

There is a lot of flexibility in full circles of our track, especially if it is well used.

Most manufacturers use 30 degree or 22.5 degree curves for their sectional track.  Smaller diameters have 12 sections, larger > 8' diameter usually have 16 sections.

Chuck


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 13, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
I suspect in this case there should be 16, they are the longer less bent rails. I'l check the diameter of the circle tomorrow. I also suspect the problem might be in the locomotive because I just tested the Olumana on this track and it runs like a clock, steady for ever. I don't' know how the 4 6 0 should run but it seems to lack power, perhaps something wrong with the wiring or the motor? It looks like its been tampered with a bit. The wires in the front where preventing the small front wheel part from moving and the back wheels were incorrectly placed when I got it.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: NarrowMinded on October 13, 2014, 09:35:40 PM
Hi,

I would.check the axles for hair or carpet fibre that may have wrapped around them and cause binding as they tighten.

I would also check the gear on the motor to see if it is slipping and moving and causing a bind in the gear box area.

Nm-jeff


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 14, 2014, 09:06:19 PM
Either I've gotten to the bottom of the problem or I've made it worse.
I first turned the loco upside down and held wires from the power supply to  the wheels but I soon got tired of holding them in place so I tied the wires to the front wheels,  everything seemed to work fine, no slowing down but I did notice a slight crunch when going forward, after a while the crunch became louder the loco slowed down , a little smoke , big crunch and stop. The last time I opened the bottom to fix the front wheels that nylon gear wheel did not look like that. So either the gear wheels were already worn and that was causing the problem or the motor was running against great resistance and the nylon got to hot and the teeth of the nylon wheel disintegrated.
I hope the two nylon gear parts are available, I now need instructions on how to take apart the necessary to be able to change the nylon parts. And to find out if something is causing friction where it should not.
PS. I intended to post photos of the state the nylon wheeĺ is in and the inside of the locomotive but I get an error message "file to big" even when I try one with such low resolution one can't see anything.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 14, 2014, 11:08:48 PM
HI TTT,

Your train is:90027*   SOU   Suwannee River Special   1996   1998   Pass    8254   Ver 3&4?   Southern Combine #11   Obs #100 "Steven Foster"

It is an older set first introduced in 1996.  They were equipped with an older Version 3 or Version 4 Chassis.   Those old chassis all had problems of one kind or another after running a bit.  The newer version 5 chassis is a really great almost bullet proof chassis!!!

Parts are no longer available for the older chassis.  I strongly recommend buying a newer Version 5  chassis currently on sale for $30.  They don't seem to have an exact color match for the Suwannee loco, but this chassis should work:   http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_148&products_id=4092

The steam chest color will be black unlike the green ones on your loco, but the chassis will fit fine.

Good Luck with your repair.

Bill



Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 08:24:04 AM
Thank you Bill,
I will most likely buy one today, but I want to make sure my locomotive is the one you say, how can I identity it?
Does the said part include the engine?  I've looked at the Bachmann page before and noticed there is a green one for $50 will it not fit?


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 15, 2014, 08:38:35 AM
TTT,

If your locomotive has the number 8254 on the cab it is the one I am talking about.  Your locomotive will be either the version 3 or version 4. 

Version 3  1994-1998  Smooth Bottom Cover You cannot turn the drivers by hand                        
Version 4  1998-1999  Large wide hump dead center between the rear drivers on bottom cover                        

The $50 chassis have the metal gears and there are some differences.  I have not personally tried to put the $50 Annie chassis on a Big Hauler loco like your, but I have been told there are some clearance issues which are not insurmountable by a person with some mechanical skills.

On the other hand the $30 chassis was designed for your loco body, and the installation will be straight forward.   The mechanisms are exactly the same inside and are both version 5.  The difference being the plastic siderods on the $30 chassis.

Bill


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 09:34:08 AM
It has 8254 written all over, it has a Bachmann China on the bottom and a little round sticker on each side July 1910 34942.
I am now a bit worried the link you gave me says SOLD OUT. If the right one is sold out can I perhaps adapt another one?


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 09:39:45 AM
Sorry, I posted the last comment without realising you had already answered. I will check again to veryfie it is sold out and get back to you.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 15, 2014, 10:08:13 AM
TTT  Any of the $30 chassis will work,  but may have colors that you will need to paint over. Some chassis have the long pilot(cowcatcher) and some have the short.  get one with the short one, or you could use the one on your loco and transfer it to the new chassis.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 10:26:15 AM
It is confusing because the parts keep changing order as one looks at them but as far as I can make out the situation is as follows:
Parts  with No. 900 ending in 59,24,56,82,64,84 are sold out, that includes the one you recommended. Available are Parts with No 900 ending in 31,94,25/32/57,35,76  and two more expensive red ones 47 and 44/45.
So which of the available parts would be easiest to adapt?


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
Again you answer before I manage to formulate the question , which is great. Will look closely at the $30 ones and decide thanks.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 15, 2014, 10:52:31 AM
Glad to help.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Chuck N on October 15, 2014, 12:02:55 PM
T3

Call parts, don't rely on what you see on the web.

Chuck


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 01:14:45 PM
I have just ordered the No 90098.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 15, 2014, 01:16:32 PM
I have just ordered and paid for a No 90098.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 16, 2014, 02:17:26 PM
Thank you all.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 18, 2014, 10:22:43 AM
I have been considering whether perhaps lack of lubrication might have been the  reason or a strong contributing factor for the toothed wheels on my locomotive to get so hot that the teeth disintegrated and melted . I had not considered that plastic locomotives needed lubrication until yesterday when I saw the Bachmann video on youtube about caring for the Spectrum 36 ton Shay. Since I am buying mainly used trains any words of advice on the care of G scale trains is more than welcome.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 25, 2014, 07:57:34 PM
I hope someone reads this, if not I'll post it in a more recent thread. Replacing the chassis is not as straightforward as it looks. Bachmann did not bother to include instructions or the screws, Il use the screws from the old chassis but unfortunately 2 are missing.  Hope one of you can post some brief instructions on the right order and procedure for changing the chassis. Thank  you.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 26, 2014, 09:14:17 AM
TTT

Loco Bill's method:

Don't panic!! :(  This is what we call the fun part of the hobby ::) ??? :P   Changing the chassis is not as tough as you think. :)  First check out George's site for instructions using the link below: 8)  Look them over and look at the chassis to get a feel for the tasks needed .

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html#assembly

Gather the tools you will need and have then ready.

Don't start until you can do the entire job in one sitting, and without interruption.  Doing part of the job and trying to finish even a day later will result in memory loss of what you actually did and make the job more difficult.

As you remove parts take a digital picture of each step as you go. Use those storage or snack baggies to put the screws and parts in as you go labeling each bag. Number each bag as you go.  This process will insure you use the right screws in the right place.  Nothing worse than looking at a pile of screws and realizing that you can't remember which was the right one to use  :-\ :'(
Being able to check out a step by reviewing the pictures you took can go a long way to keeping your confidence up.

This method has worked well for me even with more complex locomotives.

Just use the reverse process to get it back together.

Most of all look at it a a great learning experience and have fun doing it.

Bill


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: trainstrainstrains on October 26, 2014, 08:42:31 PM
The deed is done, I've fixed my Swanee River Special and my Spectrum 36 ton Shay this weekend, the Shay with a tiny c shaped plastic bit I cut out of a black plastic top and a screw, I still have to glue a small crack and would like advice as to what glue to use. The Swanee River Special was easy thanks to Loco Bill, I did not panic or lose any screws (not in my head or in the loco) I run it a few times and noticed something unusual in its appearance,  then it dawned,  the air tanks were on top of their covers, I had put them on the wrong sides, fortunately I didn't have to take it apart again just unscrew and screw in the right place. It kept derailing at first, I checked for gaps in the track and it improved, I made it pull 11 cars, no problem, I did notice that the middle wheels don't touch the rails, I checked with the damaged chassis and exactly the same thing, the middle wheels are just a bit high hardly noticeable but they do not touch the rails.
There is a Bridgewerks Magnum SR series 5 amp transformer and controller on ebay, its up to $127 today, I wonder how much one can pay for it, looks like what I need? Tomorrow I'll ring the man Loco Bill recommended. I won an auction for a little train set on ebay today, like with the Suwannee River Special I won it without really trying to, I placed very low maximum bets, this one was absurdly low priced, it's supposed to be almost new, includes a power unit, rails, loco, tender, and three cars, all for $26, The loco and tender are blue and have W&ARR printed on the sides, they look Bachmann but I'm not sure.


Title: Re: Swannee River Special 4 6 0 puffs out .
Post by: Chuck N on October 26, 2014, 09:49:25 PM
Congratulations!  Anything is possible with a little help from your friends.

Chuck