Bachmann Online Forum

Please help me decide between the two.
What are the differences,  what the similarities, advantages, which is stronger,  which is bigger, they look so alike on web pages.
Thank you.

3X T,
I own neither, but will answer like this. The Aristo Craft C-16 is out of production, and the company is out of business, so parts/service will not be forthcocming. The scale is 1:24-ish. The C-16 is a smaller prototype.
The Bachmann unit is either still in production or just shortly out. Bachmann is still here and will be for the foreseeabke future.  The scale is 1:20.3 and is a slightly larger prototype.
The drive mechanisms I would consider on par wirh one another.
As for which one to purchase, opinions are like butt holes and that is all I have to say about that.  Good luck with your purchase.
Bob C.

Go with the Bachmann C-19,  it is a beautiful locomotive and runs exceptionally well.  being a 1:20.3 scale it is true narrow gauge, and when you want to add a locomotive, the are other great Bachmann 1:20.3 locomotive available.

T3

What cars are you running or planning to run.  As as been said earlier, the two engines are different scales, 1:20.3 and 1:24.

In my opinion, Spectrum (1:20.3) cars would dwarf an already small AristoCraft engine (1:24) and Big Hauler cars (1:22.5/24) might look small behind the Spectrum engine.

It is your railroad and you can run what you like.  I just don't think that the two scales look nice together in the same train.  Others don't seem to mind.  Narrow gauge trains did tend to run different sized cars.

If I have trains out in the two scales, I might have them out on the layout as separate trains and do not mix the scales in the same train.

Chuck

Here is a picture comparing a 1:20.3 train (background) and a 1:22.5/24 train (foreground).  The engine in the back is a Bachmann Spectrum Mikado. The engine in the front is an LGB Mogul, about the same size as the Aristocraft.  I think that most Bachmann (Big Hauler), LGB, Delton, USAT narrow gauge freight cars are 1:24ish rather than 1:22.5.  That is based on the length of the models and the length of the prototype.  Height and width may be slightly different scales.

The Aristo is the old Delton model redone.  It was scaled at 1:24 which for 45mm track puts it at 3'6".  While there were railroads running such a gauge it was not common narrow gauge either.  As already pointed out the 1:20.3 makes a true 3ft model on 45mm track.

As far as the two, the Bachmann C-19 is way more detailed, a good solid drive train and is already provided with a decoder slot for onboard sound and control (it even already has a speaker inside). 

Prototypically the Delton/Aristo is of the Class 60 locomotives (60,000 lbs or 30ton  locomotive) and later re-classed as C-16 (Consolidation approximately 16,000lb tractive effort).  The C-19 was a development of the C-16 with larger boiler (so the boiler if the two were same scale is larger around), and with larger cylinders.  Essentially a beefed up C-16.  These were classed as Class 70 (35ton) and later as indicated C-19. 

This ended development of the consolidation type for the D&RG as they moved to the Mikado type with the Class 125 (later the k-27 - MiKado 27,000 pound TE).

By far though a bit more expensive, the Bachmann C-19 is far and away the better model in my opinion.  Great runners, well detailed and set for decoder installation.

I have both locos. Both run well. The Aristo is MUCH smaller than the Bachmann loco. As has been said, the Aristo is 1:24 and the Bachmann is 1:20. In real life both would be about the same size, with the C-16 having slightly smaller cylinders and a few other minor differences. Some are happy running the two scales together, but there is a BIG difference in size. I do say that large trains got me into G-scale modeling way back in the 1990's, and the big 1:20 scale Bachmann locos have made me change primarily to 1:20 (the correct 3 ft. gauge). The Bachmann loco will run on 8 ft diameter, but likes larger diameter track best. The Aristo takes 5 ft diameter to run best. There is a price difference in the two locs as well with the Bachmann costing more. The newest Aristo have the plug and play electronics for the Revolution controls. Plug and play with the Bachmann is sometimes hard to find an exact match product.
Happy Rails To You,
Ted

Ted

Since you have both locomotives, it might be helpful to T3 if you could give him (us) the lengths of the two engines with tenders.

Chuck

Aristo C-16 is approximately 22 1/4 inches long from pilot tip to rear LGB coupler tip.
4 inches wide, and 6 inches tall @ stack. This loco is 1:24 scale
Bachmann C-19 is 30 inches long, coupler tip to coupler tip.  It is 6 and 7/8 wide cab window screen to window screen, and is 7 and 7/8 tall to the spark arrestor. This loco is 1:20 scale.

Look at photos @ https://www.google.com/search?q=1:22.5+scale+to+1:20.3+scale+comparison&client=firefox-a&hs=1Ku&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NhhcVPfcOIqyogSw_oKIBg&ved=0CB8QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=615

Thanks Ted!

Those measurements show the differences.

Chuck

T3

Here are some Box car measurements to go along with Ted's engine measurements.

These are from the box only.  Height from bottom of car body to track not included.

LGB (Sorry, I don' have a Big Hauler Box car)

length 14.5", width 4", height base of cabin to top of walk 4 5/8"

Bachmann (Florence and Cripple Creek)

length 17 7/8", width 4 1/2", height base of cabin to top of walk 5 1/8".

The Spectrum cars (1:20.3) and other cars in the same scale are significantly larger than the cars produced in the Big Hauler series.

Chuck

As I learnt from K S all my locos and cars except my 1:20.3 Shay  are 1 :22.5 , so I suppose they are  closer to 1:20, I certainly did not know the Aristo was so much smaller, I guess the Bachman C 19 is much the same scale as my Shay. I'm a little disappointed because  I find the long cow catcher, square decorated lamp and other details extremely beautiful and elegant in the Aristo C 16. But I'm not prepared at least not now,  to buy a whole new dimension of cars. I guess the length given for both models is including the tender? Just out of curiosity since I'm not buying it.  Are the gears metallic on the Aristo? 
On another subject I just bought a Dalle sound board for my Shay, I was convinced of the beauty of  good sound watching the following youtube video "Alternating Trains with Acceleration & Deceleration and Phoenix Sound " which also  features the StationMaster I just bought for my "once around every half our " project and is where I first  saw the charming Aristo C 16.
Thanks everyone.

My measurements were with tenders (entire loco and tender coupled together)
Aristo has a nylon belt drive. I've had mine about 4 years and it is OK.
C-19 is metal gear drive, which, in my opinion, would be best over time. I've only had the C-19 (two of them) for about 2 years.

A good comparison of 1:20 and 1:22 scale can be found at http://forums.mylargescale.com/21-rolling-stock/11055-ams-j-s-coach-compared-lgb-coach.html with photos. Remember that the C-16 is actually 1:24 scale and slightly smaller than LGB, although LGB and Bachmann equipment work well with it.

I found  a youtube video showing clearly the size difference with the big hauler I have,  do you run the C 16 only with exactly compatible cars? I see Aristo has different scales which complicates things further. I guess nobody makes a bigger C 16.

Everytime I shoose a file no matter how small I get a red message saying it is too big, any idea why?

I do not run the C-16 with Accucraft or Bachmann Spectrum 1:20 scale cars. Loco is way to small. I do use Aristo Classic, LGB, Bachmann, and USA woodsided cars with it. I also use the Aristo Sierra passenger cars (1:29 scale) with the C-16 and they look fine, as does Bachmann Jackson-Sharpe passenger cars. I do use my Bachmann 'Annie's' with the 1:20 scale freight cars and they look acceptable to me.

You are correct that the C-19 and your Shay are same scale. C-19 is still longer than the Shay, partially because of the tender. What looks good to you with the Shay would likely look well with the C-19, but remember the longer tender.

Thanks so much everyone, I guess that now that I know the Aristo C 16 is smallish, I've lost interest, I still think its the most beautiful locomotive of all, I wish someone would make a bigger one, as for the Bachmann C 19 , I'll have to wait, I could not find one new or old at a price comparable to what I can buy a mint Aristo C 16, ($250).
I've become a G scale addict so quickly , going from 0 to 4 locomotives,  12 cars and 22 yards of brass rails in about 40 days. I think its time to slow down.  I've recently discovered the importance and unexpected extra large expense of sound, which I was not counting on. I think instead of buying either the Aristo C 16 or Bachmann C 19,  I will try to repair the chassis of my Swanee River 4 6 0 and buy a new 4 6 0 shell from Bachmann, that way with little expense I will have one more 4 6 0 . The new challenge being getting a new drive wheel  for the engine and learning how to install it. Any help with the new project much appreciated.

The C-16 is a very good loco, it is just small for 1:20 scale cars and other locos. It does well with Bachmann's freight and passenger 'Big Hauler' cars.

I've been reading this topic and got curious so...

From what I found on the internet, the C16 is 25.75" long, the C19 is 32" long.  If my math is correct that's a 20% difference in length.

I looked in my copy of Richard Prince's book on the Seaboard Air Line to compare the lengths of 2-8-0s SAL had.  SALs 2-8-0s were a more modern class of engine than the C16/19 engines.

Their 2-8-0s have nothing in common with either the C16 or C19, but the difference in lengths is what prompted me to post.

The SAL class H 2-8-0s were approx 61 feet long from pilot to rear coupler (61 ft=30.5" in 1/24 scale)

SAL class H2 2-8-0s were approx 71 feet long from pilot front to rear coupler (71 ft=35.5" in 1/24 scale).

Again, if my math is correct, that's a 14% difference in length.

The heights were almost the same for the SAL engines.

I guess what I'm saying is that differences in length would be normal, different classes = different sizes.

Does anyone know what the actual lengths were of the prototype C16 and C19?  I tried, but didn't find anything.

Bob D.

Remember, in real life, standard gauge locos  appear super-sized to narrow gauge locos of the same wheel arrangements. If you search for videos of narrow gauge locos on the Cumbres & Toltec, you will find double headers with loco 463 (K-27) and other k-series (K-36) you will see the difference in size of these 2-8-2 locos, Also some video out there of 315 (C-18) and 463 (K-27) running together. So, there are different size locos in real life. Run what looks good to you.

In the book "Rio Grande Narrow Gauge" by John B. Norwood are drawings of the C-16 and C-19.  The length of the C-16 front coupler to tender coupler is 49' 6 1/8".  The similar length of the C-19 is 51' 2 5/8".  

The 20% difference you calculated is the difference in the two scales; 1:20.3 and 1:24.

Most of the difference in the length of the engines is in the engine.  C-16 is 26.5' long and the C-19 is 28.2' long, back of footplate to front coupler.

Chuck

Note added

The lengths of the D&RGW Mikados (2-8-2) are as follows, engine and tender:

K-27  58' 9 5/8"
K-28  62' 9 1/2"
K-36  68' 0 3/4"
K-37  65' 2 15/16"

Thanks guys!

Here's one spot I found that has some basic drawings and dimensions of the C16 and C19 classes:

http://www.ghostdepot.com/rg/rolling%20stock/locomotive/drgw1939roster.htm (http://www.ghostdepot.com/rg/rolling%20stock/locomotive/drgw1939roster.htm)

Bob D.

I think I've just gone crazy, I write and sincerely believe I must slow down with this G scale addiction and I go and place a bid for an Aristo Craft 2-8-8-2 Mallet and I'm sure someone will surely place a higher bid than mine, (330)  but they don't.  So I win, I want to share this with you all because I consider you my real friends in this. I'm writing this in this thread  It belongs in another thread that is older, since nobody will read it there I post here also. It will be a while till I receive the bigest strongest loco I'l ever buy so if anyone knows it's dimensions please tell me.

Congratulations, It is a great engine.

The engine is 28 inches long and the tender is 18 inches long.  It is big.  It is one of my favorite 1:29 locomotives. It will require large diameter curves, 8 or 10' minimum diameter.

Since this is a Bachmann site, I suggest that you join Mylargescale.com and ask questions about it there.  There are other large scale sites out there in addition to MLS.  I'm active there.

In my opinion, your Bachmann Big Hauler 1:24 cars will look fine behind it.  I pull an Adult Beverage (Beer Cars) train behind it.  The cars are all the same size as the Big Hauler Box cars.

Here are a couple of pictures of my Mallet pulling an Iron Ore train.  The batteries and R/C are in the Box car behind the tender.  That car is the same size as the Big Hauler Box cars.  Pictures at a friends layout here in Virginia.







Here are a couple of pictures of it with the beer train.  All the cars are 1:24.  You can see that they go well with the engine.

These were taken at the Adobe Mt. Railroad Park layout in North Phoeniz, Az.





Chuck

Great stuff, can't wait!  Will join the other forum, hope they are as friendly as you all are!

Most are very friendly.  There are however a few who get upset on occasion when their suggestions aren't taken as the only option.  There are a lot of active members, it won't take long to get used to the personalities.

There are some names you will recognize from this site.

Chuck

PS  Just remember that in this hobby there are no, almost no, absolutes.  Every ones location and experience, likes and dislikes are different.  At MLS you are likely to get more answers than you get here.  They will often conflict.  You will have to pick and choose what you think will work for you and your local climate. 

The only absolute that I know of is that our trains, for the most of us, run on rails that are 45mm apart.  Other than that, it is ultimately up to you to do what you want.

Of the three train brands I now have, Bachmann is my favorite, I admire LGB for its history and typical german high quality, Aristo-Craft is to me a dinosaur,  defunct and fascinating and as such no competition  to eider Bachmann or LGB.  BACHMANN as you are all aware is big in many ways, size of products, quantity of products,  affordability , service and amount of parts. Bachmann has also many interesting models. So I guess I'll be posting here again.

Tried to tegister in Mylargescale.com register sends me to the main page where again register ....?

I was doing something wrong,  I've registered now.

Welcome.  Glad you solved the problem.  I've been a member, over there, for many years, but I can't offer much help on recent registration problems.

Kevin S. is a moderator over there.

This is a great site for questions about Bachmann, but questions on other manufacturers equipment really need to be elsewhere.  

You should be able to get questions on other equipment answered over on MLS.

It is a great hobby.

Have you made contact with a local Garden Railway society or club?  It would help us help you if you said where you live, address not necessary, but city, town or region would help us locate regional help.  Talking to experienced Large Scalers in your area can be a real help.

Chuck

One final recommendation.  Post a comment only once.  Multiple posts will drive you and everyone else crazy.  We don' know where to respond and it is hard for you to keep track of "who is on first".

multiple posts confused me as well, best to not do it!  Bill