What Kadee's are people using to convert the new 1:20.3 freight cars, if any?.
I have looked at the 1 gauge couplers but they seem too small?
In 1:20 Narrow gauge there were at least two common sized couplers used. A full sized coupler (D&RGW) or a 3/4 sixed coupler (EBT)
The Kadee 830 coupler is about right for a full sized coupler and is a drop in replacement for the Bachmann 1:20.3 freight cars.
The 820 is a good 3/4 sized coupler. You will need to drill and tap a new hole if installing an 820 coupler on the Bachmann 1:20.3 cars.
I have found on my railroad which is outside that the 830s work better but others report good luck with the 820s as well.
Stan Ames
(http://www.tttrains.com/largescale/images/ebttrain.gif)
Quote from: frogacres on October 18, 2007, 08:17:52 AM
What Kadee's are people using to convert the new 1:20.3 freight cars, if any?.
I have looked at the 1 gauge couplers but they seem too small?
You need to decide WHY you want to replace them at all.
The height is right, the Bachmann units operate prototypically, and the coupler lift bar functions.
IF you want to eliminate the prototypical operation, in functionality AND appearance, then go with the Kadees.
Personally, I would much rather have prototypical functionality than side-swinging couplers and exposed coil springs, plus "fixed air hoses" that will, in fact, rust.
Do you mean it's NOT prototypical to lift up one end of the car to uncouple? ;D
You could ask Kevin Strong.
ALL the CCRy regulars stood around in awe observing his 0-5-0 switcher uncoupling standard Bachmann couplers on his visit........
Worked, di'n't it? ;D
Never you mind what TOC says about couplers. He's hated Kadees almost as long as he's driven flat-head Fords. Some folks just ain't never gonna change their minds. Sure, the B'mann couplers do work on the same principle as the prototype, but saying they're any closer to a scale appearance than Kadees just ain't right. Both miss the mark, just in opposite directions. Cut the pin off the Kadee, and you're half-way there. Paint the spring black, and you're a bit closer.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kcstrong/trr/pics/TRR3/couplerpocket1.jpg)
(The spring is on the other side, but you'll be hard-pressed to see it from more than 12" away.)
Alas, with the Bachmann couplers, you just c'ain't hide ugly.
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/misc/couplerspoof.jpg)
I could go on about my experiences with Bachmann couplers--actually the virtually identical Delton couplers--but the choir don't need preachin' to, and the non-believers are set in their ways. I've been using Kadee #1 couplers for 20+ years with nary a problem.
If you want prototypical operation and scale appearance, go with Accucraft's coupler. Their coupler box is almost identical to Kadee's #835 coupler, and can be mounted to the bottom of Bachmann's cars with just a few new holes. (Note - with the hoppers, you're drilling into metal, so you'll have to tap the holes or use self-tapping machine screws. The box/flat/gon frames are plastic, so the supplied 2-56 screws will tap themselves very nicely. Don't know about the tank cars. Haven't read TOC's review of them yet.
I haven't seen Accucraft's 1:29 coupler yet, so I don't know how well it would work for a 3/4 size coupler. I'm hoping they will, and that they can be retrofitted into a Kadee #820 coupler box. I'd love to have something that looks even more prototypical than Kadee's #1 coupler, and have the advantage of working correctly. I can't guarantee I won't still occasionally lift a car to uncouple it, though.
BTW, the 3/4 size couplers were very popular in the northeastern narrow gauge lines, being almost universally adopted in that region, and also some west coast lines including the White Pass.
Later,
K
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your responses and helpful info.
It seems the logical way to go is the G (#830) couplers on the Bachmann western USA rolling stock . This hopefully will fit in with Accucraft rolling stock also.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s I had a 20' x 10' LGB exhibition layout and ran all my USA freight stock with Kadee O scale couplers with no problems whatsoever.
Again, thanks.
Trevor James
Downunder.
Dunno, Kevin.
I was getting ready to convert all of my new cars to AMS or Kadee, when I unboxed the first of the hoppers ... you know, the new ones really are quite nice, and they work well with both Kadee and AMS ... I think I may just keep 'em!
Matthew (OV)
How about someone posting a few photos of the various couplers mated together? i.e. a B'mann and a Kadee hooked up; a Kadee and an AMS(Accucraft), an AMS and a B'mann, etc. It would provide an interesting perspective.
And while on the subject of couplers; What about those on the upcoming K27s? Any changes recommended or anticipated?
Here is a picture of a Bachmann 1:20.3 coupled to the Kadee height gauge. Coupler height is exact with the gauge.
(http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/jlsrails/Rolling_Stock/100_1838.jpg)
This view shows the Bachmann coupled to the AMS 1:20.3 box car.
(http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/jlsrails/Rolling_Stock/100_1868.jpg)
Note that the AMS body mount coupler, as delivered, sets higher than the Bachmann. Even though slightly higher, the AMS body mount works OK with the Bachmann.
I prefer Bachmann couplers, either the plastic truck mounted or the newer metal couplers supplied with the 1:20.3 cars.
(http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/jlsrails/Rolling_Stock/Knapp-5.jpg)
These are the plastic body mount couplers supplied with AML 1:29 scale cars. These happen to be couplers that came with Art Knapp's 1:29 scale PS-1 box car. The Knapp cars are produced by Accucraft for Knapp. This same coupler came with a number of AML PS-1 box cars.
JD
Matthew (OV) - et tu, Brute
Jon - thanks for the pics. Is the box for the 1:29 couplers the same size as the #820 (#1 scale) box?
Later,
K
Kevin,
I don't have any Kadee couplers for comparison.
The AML boxes measure:
Length: 1.569 in. (outside measurement)
Width: 1.00 in. (outside measurement)
Depth: .166 in.
The AML boxes have no lids. The box fits against the bottom of the car with three screws. They're a little tricky to install since the coupler and spring must be held in place while installing the box.
I don't use body mounts of any type except on the Bachmann 1:20.3 rolling stock. I did test fit one of the AML boxes with coupler on a PS1 box car just to see how they might work. Not impressed.
JD
Perhaps a demo of Kadee operation might help! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4JCtZ_XM8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4JCtZ_XM8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waYgHRMKdBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waYgHRMKdBU)
...and note I ALSO use Kevin Strong's method for manual uncoupling! :D
- The working cut levers on the newer Bachmann cars (& Accucraft's as well), are a nice feature, but they DON'T make up for the fact that (A) you virtually have to CRASH >:( the cars to couple, & they have an annoying tendency to uncouple unexpectedly! (I've had several runaways :o resulting! - Although I think the Accucrafts are bigger offenders then Bachmann on that!). ;) The Accucrafts are the closest to scale appearance (I'll second Kevin's comments on the Bachmann coupler's appearance), but their both still way over-scale (even the G-gauge Kadees I use are as well, but less so).
- And besides, what's so prototypical about a 1:1 hand "descending from the heavens" to lift a 1:20.3 cut lever? (If you can come up with a robotic 1:20.3 brakeman figure ;D to pull the cut lever, then OK!). ;D
Tom
For a good writeup on coupler sizes check out
http://home.comcast.net/~brmetcalf/rr/couplerp.htm (http://home.comcast.net/~brmetcalf/rr/couplerp.htm)
The Kadee G size coupler is a 10 1/4 inch coupler. The Accucraft is a 12 3/4 inch coupler and the Bachmann is a 15 1/4 inch coupler. For comparision a type D was 9 inch and a type E was 11 inch.
I use a sears craftsman screwdriver to uncoupler my cars. Place it inbetween two cars and a slight trist and you are uncoupled.
All my crews get equipped with a screwdriver as it doubles as a device to clear out a turnout if ballast gets in the way.
Stan
Looking at the photos caused a light to go on... The AMS couplers are mounted higher because they are at 1:20.3 scale height where as the Bachmann and Kadee height gauge are at 1:22.5 scale. It seems that even though the new Bachmann cars are 1:20.3 scale, the couplers are at 1:22.5 height. Make sense?
Quote from: David on October 20, 2007, 05:58:56 PMIt seems that even though the new Bachmann cars are 1:20.3 scale, the couplers are at 1:22.5 height. Make sense?
One could easily come to that conclusion, but it could also be that in the prototype world, coupler centerlines are typically in line with the top of the wheel. The AMS cars are D&RGW prototypes which rode on 26" wheels, while the B'mann wheels are smaller by one or two scale inches. That could also account for the difference in height. There was no "standard" coupler height in the narrow gauge world, and when equipment passed from one railroad to another, there was often some kind of fiddling that had to be done to get the couplers to work with the "native" equipment.
I would assume that Bachmann standardized their coupler heights, though, and that the tank cars (which I believe rode on 26" wheels) would have the lower height.
Stan--Thanks for the link. Wish the drawings showed up, but a great reference.
Later,
K
Kevin
When we redid the NMRA coupler height standards we were faced with no prototype standard (there is wide variation) so we filped a coin and went with the existing Kadee practice for coupler height which was in the valid range of protype coupler heights and matched existing modeler practice.
Bachmann used the NMRA standards when they developed their Fn3 product line.
I do not know what happened to Bruces figures on his page. I send him an email on this.
BTW the #1 scale kadee coupler represents a 7 1/2 inch coupler. A 3/4 type D would be 6 3/4 while a 3/4 type E would be 8 1/4.
So for 1:20.3 modelers the Kadee sizes are the closest in the market for both 3/4 and full size couplers.
Stan
PS the link to the Bruce's complete coupler pages is
http://home.comcast.net/~brmetcalf/rr/coupler.htm (http://home.comcast.net/~brmetcalf/rr/coupler.htm)
Quote from: Tom Lapointe on October 20, 2007, 02:27:42 PM
(A) you virtually have to CRASH the cars to couple
Not really. I have had my engine (with Bachmann couplers) couple to cars (with Bachmann couplers) at a crawl many many times. Now true I do have to slam them together sometimes, but then again so do the prototypes.