Hi everyone,
I just received my new train kit...It is a Bachmann Echo Valley set, it is Dcc and sound.
And I just went out and got the lumber to build my table. It will be a 4x8 layout.
This is going to be my layout as for now.
http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/180
Moosie-
This looks like an interesting small layout. You'll have to stay with comparatively small equipment but there are lots of operational
possibilities. I salute your choice.
-- D
"Model Railroader" magazine have just publish an annual of sorts, all about designing smaller model railroaders. It should be in hobby shops now as I picked up a copy today.
A quick glance shows some interesting tips on designing smaller model railroads and designs that are thinking outside the box. I.E., avoiding the beginners 4 x 8 trap.
Yes, I do not have a small model railroad and I am not a beginner but there are always new things everyone can learn, even in a magazine aimed at beginners, like this latest publication.
I strongly suggest any beginner pick up a copy.
Cheers
Roger T.
MM, I like this layout, looks like fun :)
Up date I have all most finished my layout table I'll post a pic when its done.
Here is my Table
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/54/62/20/train_10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/181)
Nice bench work!
that;s a good sturdy foundation. you will never regret building a sturdy framework, building too light on the other hand will cause you no end of frustration.
Thanks guys.
I plan on putting down a sheet of insulation on top of the plywood so I can carve out a stream or and a lake.
What would you Guys do next...start buying more track, or start wiring just the Buss line for now...etc, etc.
Any input would be great.
Mr M-
That looks like a solid base for your layout. I endorse your plan to add insulation board. That makes for a versatile
ground level and it permits you to model below your tracks -- culverts, water features and the like. The one thing I'd add
to your structure is some diagonal bracing. That will help keep most of your cars on the tracks when someone bumps into the
table. An 18" or so piece of thin plywood would work fine for the ends with 1x2s or 1x3s on the sides.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on December 15, 2014, 05:26:17 PM
Mr M-
That looks like a solid base for your layout. I endorse your plan to add insulation board. That makes for a versatile
ground level and it permits you to model below your tracks -- culverts, water features and the like. The one thing I'd add
to your structure is some diagonal bracing. That will help keep most of your cars on the tracks when someone bumps into the
table. An 18" or so piece of thin plywood would work fine for the ends with 1x2s or 1x3s on the sides.
-- D
Thanks for the tip..I do plan on some bracing just haven't got that far.
Well I went and bought the Wiring to setup my bus around the table and got feeder wire for the track
and suitcase taps.
Have a question, What would be the best way to wire in the E-Z Command controller to the layout,
Straight to the bus line or cut and splice it to the bus and the e-z track terminal?
The track layout you are going to make looks nice, with lots of thought and some careful planing you can do a lot with a 4x8 layout. looking forward to seeing more as you go alone :)
Have you considered running some 2x4x8 for the 8 foot section of the table for support? it might be a good idea to do that, it will make for a nice sturdy table alone the length.
Yes I have just haven't got around to doing it yet.
Have a question, What would be the best way to wire in the E-Z Command controller to the layout,
Straight to the bus line or cut and splice it to the bus and the e-z track terminal?
Quote from: MrMoose on December 16, 2014, 08:30:17 PM
Yes I have just haven't got around to doing it yet.
Have a question, What would be the best way to wire in the E-Z Command controller to the layout,
Straight to the bus line or cut and splice it to the bus and the e-z track terminal?
ah ok, that sounds good giving it some support will be a good thing in the long run.
as for the wiring i don't know the best way since everyone has their own way of how they like their wiring to be done, i can tell you how i did mine though lol i ran the track rail leads i added through suitcase connecters and then connected the two main lead wires to the power connecting wire that came with my E-Z track set, weather that's the right or wrong way of doing it i don't know lol all i know is it works for me.
Mr M-
You can wire your EZC directly to the power buss and then run feeders up to the rails. I find the best way to do the feeders is to solder them to the undersides of your rail joiners. I don't like to count on rail joiners to carry current through more than one joint which means a powered rail joiner every four track sections unless I solder rail joiners which I typically do. This can make for a lot of feeders but I use flex track so it's more like a feeder every 12 feet.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on December 17, 2014, 12:04:35 AM
Mr M-
You can wire your EZC directly to the power buss and then run feeders up to the rails. I find the best way to do the feeders is to solder them to the undersides of your rail joiners. I don't like to count on rail joiners to carry current through more than one joint which means a powered rail joiner every four track sections unless I solder rail joiners which I typically do. This can make for a lot of feeders but I use flex track so it's more like a feeder every 12 feet.
-- D
Thanks for your response, Since I asked this question I found a great deal on a Nce power Cab kit, so when it comes I will be using it.
I remember when my Layout started out like yours NOW INVOLEVED IN A 2 1/2 YEAR BUILD "I should be done with my layout Mid January or Febuary 15 Complete with Scenery" I will shoot some pictures of my layout & post... Now my layout is 16ft Long x 6 1/2 Feet Wide 2 track main & 3 Track interchange & 9 Track Yard Area.... Just an FYI to you if you can extend your layout NOW for expansion & have the Room to do so wile your in the BUILD PROCESS " I highly consider it " I am SO GLAD I did with mine & now I have more than enough room for ALL my Rolling Stock & Loco's...
But Very Nice Bench Work "Well constructed So Far"
Quote from: trainmainbrian on December 17, 2014, 09:08:05 AM
I remember when my Layout started out like yours NOW INVOLEVED IN A 2 1/2 YEAR BUILD "I should be done with my layout Mid January or Febuary 15 Complete with Scenery" I will shoot some pictures of my layout & post... Now my layout is 16ft Long x 6 1/2 Feet Wide 2 track main & 3 Track interchange & 9 Track Yard Area.... Just an FYI to you if you can extend your layout NOW for expansion & have the Room to do so wile your in the BUILD PROCESS " I highly consider it " I am SO GLAD I did with mine & now I have more than enough room for ALL my Rolling Stock & Loco's...
But Very Nice Bench Work "Well constructed So Far"
Thanks, I'll keep the expansion in mind before I permanently put the track down.
Update on my layout
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/54/62/20/glenns10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/182)
I received my new Nce Power Cab today, set it up and made some cv changes and boy what a difference in how the Locomotive runs. Very very smooth.
I am very pleased with the system. :)
I've heard nothing but good things about them. Enjoy!
Update.
Bought some more track and pickup a good deal on a 2-8-0 consolidate steam loco.
I don't think that is it DCC ready so I'll be putting in a sound decoder for that.
I ordered a lumber saw mill kit, so I think that will be my theme for the layout.
MM-
A 2-8-0 steam locomotive is called a "Consolidation."
-- D
Picky,Picky.... ;D
Quote from: MrMoose on December 31, 2014, 08:04:18 AM
Picky,Picky.... ;D
Moosie-
Not really. There are many opportunities for miscommunication when all we really have is short discussion board
messages. Using accurate terminology mitigates this a little bit. Now if we could just get to proper grammar we might
really have something!
-- D
Quote from: MrMoose on December 31, 2014, 08:04:18 AM
Picky,Picky.... ;D
I realise you are joking but in this hobby, like most hobbies, learning the correct terminology is important so that everyone knows and understands what people are discussing. That we we can be more helpful.
Happy New Year.
Roger T.
I don't know. I knew he meant Consolidation even though that is not what he spelled. And I don't even know what a Consolidation is :D
Doc, I can recall you scolding JH2 one time for being pedantic, not too long ago. It had to do with the Adams Family ;).
My turn to get picky....lmao.....
Jim...it's Addams Family....2 d's.....lol.
Sid
Quote from: WoundedBear on December 31, 2014, 10:38:22 PM
My turn to get picky....lmao.....
Jim...it's Addams Family....2 d's.....lol.
Sid
Good one Sid. :)
Happy New Year.
...and that was exactly the reason for the aforementioned pedantic episode ;)
I heard Pugsley recently died. Too bad. I was more a Munsters guy myself.
Gentlemen : I do hope you all have a Happy New Year . Jbrock27 , you heard right it was on the internet recently . I was a fan of both the Addams Family and the Munsters , both shows created an interesting perspective on family social interactions . Being called "pedantic" is not the worst thing I have been called , some of that is true , but I was A Quality Control / Assurance Inspector and it definitely comes with the job . Been looking through catalogs and trying to get the shop cleaned out & more organized so that I could actually do some modeling . First day of a new year and Hope springs eternal . Have a Good Evening. John2 .
A little update:
I have the foam board laid down, and I have all my track except for one turn out which should be here soon.
I will post pictures soon. Thats it for now.
Here is a pic of my progress with my layout.
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/ho_lay10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/183)
Looking good Moose is Loose :) What's the grade come to on the risers?
3 degrees
Grades are usually defined in terms of percentages. In other words, the change in elevation per 100 units of track, such as a 3% grade, which is a 3 inch rise over 100 inches of run.
So, what is the grade in these terms..??
Gus.
3%, 3%,3%,3% hope you got that...lol
OK, here's pedantic. In 1866 the Lehigh Valley RR and the Lehigh and Mahanoy RR were consolidated. The master mechanic designed a new freight locomotive and to commemorate the merged rail lines he call the 2-8-0 type a Consolidation. The name stuck and is still used today.
And the 2-8-2 was allegedly first used in Japan, hence the name "Mikado".
Cheers
Roger T.
Don't rely only on what you have for supports. Put some cross-bracing on the assembly. You will be better off; especially if the existing set-up takes a nice sharp blow.
SGT C.
Well I got a little more work done on my layout. I drilled the holes for all the turnout wiring to go thru the plywood.
I glued the incline and decline down to the foam board and I glued the track down to the incline and decline foam.
Installed all the magnets to my spurs. Now I can start fastening the track to the foam.... In order for the screws to hold I have to go thru 2" of foam and into the plywood. The screws have to be 3" long for that to work. I'm going to drill a small hole thru the ez track between to ties and then countersink the hole so the screw head will be flush with the top of the ties. This way if I want or need to remove track i can do it with out messing with dry glue. Got my track all screwed down. Now I can start on all the wiring.
TooT, TooT...Keep on railroading!!!
Where did you find these screws? And what size (not length) are they Moosey?
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 30, 2015, 10:13:00 PM
Where did you find these screws? And what size (not length) are they Moosey?
They are #8 drywall screws. I would of liked to use #6 but they don't make them 3" long just 2-1/2".
If I would of went with just 1" foam then I would of had no issues with length.
I like the idea, but weren't the heads of the screws too big to fit between the ties? I guess when you countersunk, you had to take some material away from the ties so the screw head was flush with the roadbed, while fitting between 2 ties?
wouldn't it be better to test your track before you screw it down? also, you will want to make sure you don't screw down too tight or you will deform the track.
If you have everything glued down, I don't see a need for screwing the track down. All the track in my layout (about 150 feet) is glued to the cork roadbed. I haven't seen any track coming loose in the 10 years I've had it. If you ballast the track, that will give it even further anchorage.
Good luck..!!
Gus.
If you glued to track to the foam, why do you need screws?
Len
I did not glue the track to the foam board..the only place I glue the track to was on the incline and decline foam risers.
And to answer the other questions I did countersink the screws so they fit flush with the ties. And I did test the track after I screwed it all down and everything works fine. Ballasting the track will hide the screws.
Cheers
Very interesting and informative thread. MrMoose, I am very new and beginning to RR modeling. Would explain what this "foam" is and where you found it.
The foam is insulating board found at Home Depot or other home improvement stores.
It comes in different "ratings" and thicknesses. The pink is the best suited for our purposes.
Gus.
Quote from: DougInCal on February 01, 2015, 12:50:25 AM
Very interesting and informative thread. MrMoose, I am very new and beginning to RR modeling. Would explain what this "foam" is and where you found it.
It is what Guslcp said, insulating board the thickness you use is your choice most use either 1" or 2" depending on how deep you would want to cut sub terrain into it. Like streams, gullies, lakes, rivers, culverts, etc,etc. and pink is the most preferred insulation board to use.
In some parts of the country, the blue foam insulation is easier to find. Pink or blue, the key is that it's extruded foam, not the kind made from pellets that fly all over the place when cut.
Len
Blue extruded foam............ Dow Chemical
Pink extruded foam............ Owens Corning
Green extruded foam..........usually Plastifab
Availability of each usually depends on which company is close to your area. Being as how the product is mostly air, manufacturers do their best to not have to ship it overly far.
Sid
Update:
I have all the feeder wires soldered to the track now I have to connect them to the bus, I will be using suitcase connectors for that. I ordered a sound decoder for my Bachmann Amtrak GP 40-2 that is DCC ready. Just plug and play.
Thats it for now. Happy Railroading!!!
Once you start connecting the feeders to the bus, check, after EVERY connection that the system works. It's no fun having to track down a short circuit once you have finished connecting all of them, only to find that it doesn't work...
It takes a bit longer, but once you are finished, you'll have a functioning layout.
Gus.
Good stuff Moosey!
;D ;D ;D ;D
update:
I have all the feeders connected to the Bus and no shorts. ( I did good :P).
Now I'm just waiting for some terminal blocks to come so I can start to wire up the turnouts.
Update:
I started to build my control panel for the turnouts. I built a frame to the size that I needed and got a piece of plexiglass 1/8" cut to the size to fit the frame. I used 1/8" white pinstriping to layout where the turnouts are on the plexiglass. I have ordered some Ken Stapleton's 751D module switches that I'll use for the toggle switches. They will eliminate alot of wiring otherwise.
I will paint the back side of the plexiglass black so the white pinstripe will stand out.
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/turnou11.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/185)
Update:
I finished building the turnout panel for my switches and leds. I drilled out the plexiglass for them.
I have received the switch panels, and now waiting for the screw-in edge terminals to solder to the switch panels.
Then I can wire up all the turnouts and leds. After that I can start on the Landscape and scenery.
Here is a Pic of my switch panels that I'm using. These are for twin coiled tunouts.
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/100_0510.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/186)
That it for now. Happy Railroading!!!
Moose is Loose, where did you purchase your toggle(s) from?
Thanks.
what is the circuit board for? are you using the monentary spdt switches?
If I am not mistaken, that is a power relay for the turnout switch motor. I have seen these on Ebay.
I bought them from Ken Stapleton in Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/Index.html
Check out his site it explains how they operate.
Well I have a sound decoder coming for my 70ton switcher should be a interesting install.
And waiting for my S2 switcher to show up in the mail. DCC with Sound.
And I'm waiting for the screw-in edge terminals to show up so I can solder them to the switch card panels.
Thats it for now. Happy Railroading!!!
I received all the parts to assemble the switch panels. I soldered the pcb edge connectors to the switch panel and then wired up all the bi-color leds and then mounted one switch and leds to the control panel for a test. Wired up all the connections and put power to it and it works flawlessly. I'm happy... :)
11 more to go...lol
I received the sound decoder and installed it into the 70ton switcher. Very tight fit. I'm still waiting for the right speaker to come so I can finish up the install. I temporarily attached a speaker to it just to test the install.
Everything test ok.
Update:
I finished wiring up all the turnouts to the panel and everything is working ok. Had some power issues at first but I got that figured out. I was using a switching power supply that I didn't know that it was. and when I powered up my panel everything started pulsating on and off (Not good). I ask the Ken Stapleton the man that I got the switches from if he knew was was up and he told me to check and see what kind of power supply that I was using and when I told him he said to swap it out for a regulated power supply, I did and that solved the problem.
So everything is good now....Next is scenery.
Thats it for now....Happy Railroading!!!
Hey, Mr. Moose,
I've been following this thread off and on as I have worked with my Echo Valley. I just moved my layout to larger environs because of the expansion factor.
I really like your layout, and I admire the slow, steady process with which you've developed it.
I am wondering about your switching control panel.
I have two crossovers and three turnouts. I have 4 locomotives (not all running at once). I'll admit I find it a challenge to think quickly enough (for example) to go through the combination of EZ Controller buttons to make a crossover switch, then a left turnout, then get one loco moving correctly, and keep another one from going astray.
I think your system of having them on a control panel makes considerably more sense.
Are all of them EZ Track?
Yes they are all ez track turnouts.
I like the switches I got lets me still interact with the layout even if it only throwing a toggle switch...lol.
And I like that I can hookup leds to show the turnout positions. I'm using 3 lead bi-color leds soldered together with the lead from green and red opposite from each other, so when the switch is thrown one way green will show the thru position and red shows the diversion position. Then when I throw the switch the other way, red will show on the thru position and green shows the diversion position.
Have you had any difficulty with your left crossover? My right works fine, but the left is temperamental.
No they both work just fine. Check all your connections and make sure that the center wire of the three wire the comes from the turnout is used as the ground wire and the two outside wires are coil A and coil B. Unless your turnouts are DCC controlled then I don't know about the wiring for those or programming them.
MM,
I just posted the crossover question as a new topic.
Please read it if you have the chance.
To follow up, I'm having virtually the same problem with a replacement crossover. I've replaced track on either side of the piece with no improvement. I think it could be the wiring, but it's nothing I can detect.
Moosie, 3 lead or 2 lead bi-color LEDs?
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 13, 2015, 10:46:46 PM
Moosie, 3 lead or 2 lead bi-color LEDs?
I'm afraid I need a Rosetta stone to get through this comment. :D
But the idea (as far as I can follow it) sounds terrific, being able to see how the switch is thrown.
You should not have to Ken.
Some LEDs have 3 legs and some LEDs have 2 legs. I know of Bi-Color ones that have 2 legs and can be used in the manner that Moosie described. I am just trying to confirm with Moosie what he truly used and that he did not accidentally misspeak about what he had used for my own future use and information, bc, check out my man Chuck Baker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO2tDVWiUIo
I am using 3 lead bi-color LEDs. This is what the designer said to use on his switch panel.
Thanks for clarifying.
Can you describe how you wired them up?
Thank you.
Thanks, Jim, for the clarification.
You had commented a couple of weeks ago about Baker. I watched all of his long video on operating his layout. Very instructive. I plan to watch all of his videos in time.
I began watching the video you mentioned in this thread. I think I'll be able to follow the details later. There's just so much to learn. I'm just trying to work my way through it.
An old friend of mine--whom I haven't seen in awhile-- is a retired electrician and a semi-maven of things electronic. I need get him to come over.
My pleasure Ken. Chuck's an honest Joe and a good dude who tries to be helpful to anyone he can. No pretense about him. I like that when he displays something, that it is not about "hey look what I did-please heep praise on me"; it's about him trying to pass along how to do something to someone else, that he feels would be helpful.
I hope Moose gets back to me (us). I would like to learn about this w/o having to buy the product from Mr. Stapleton.
Moose, you don't have to get back to me on the wiring. I looked it up on the PDF Stapleton has about it.
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 14, 2015, 09:55:39 AM
Moose, you don't have to get back to me on the wiring. I looked it up on the PDF Stapleton has about it.
I'm using 3 lead bi-color leds soldered together with the lead from green and red opposite from each other, so when the switch is thrown one way green will show the thru position and red shows the diversion position. Then when I throw the switch the other way, red will show on the thru position and green shows the diversion position.
in this application it is far easier to use 3 lead leds than 2 lead ones. the 3 lead ones are red and green leds wired in parallel, with a common return. the 2 lead ones are red green leds wired opposite to each other so that when you switch polarity they switch colours. 2 leads are useful for polarity detectors, or as indicator lights for tortoise type switch motors. but it is difficult to use them with the standard twin coil switch motors that Bachmann, atlas, peco and others use.
Thank you both for the add'l info.
Jeff, sent you a PM yesterday Re: Railroadiana.
Would not using 2 lead Bi-colour LEDs work using this method with an Atlas Relay?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iUp-x1M7OU
Looks pretty straight forward and simple to me. Plus, it would not cost $30+ per unit.
it would but you would use both sets of contacts on the snap relay. using 3 lead leds will allow you to get by with only one set of contacts, leaving the other free for another function like powering a frog. I know that in this modern era there is a push to make everything more complicated. but that is not always the best way. if you can keep the circuit simple, you can understand and troubleshoot it better.
I agree with your point and that approach wholeheartedly.
Oh, and happy Pie Day!
Thanks, and to you also... :)
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 14, 2015, 05:18:26 PM
Oh, and happy Pie Day!
I am waiting until 9.26 to celebrate....
3.1415926
JWARD,
AM or PM?
Thought I would post a couple of pictures of my Control Panel. Its just a plain Panel nothing special.
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/100_0512.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/188) Lights Off
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/100_0513.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/189) Lights On
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/100_0514.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/190) Spaghetti
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/54/62/20/100_0515.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/13546220/191) Wired Switches
Thank you.
I started to paint the foam on my layout. I'm using a riverbed tan/brown color.
Got some foam board to start making my tunnel / mountain terrain. It will be a double track on one end and two singles on the other end.
Finished installing a sound decoder into my Bachmann 70 ton switcher. It sounds good.
Thats if for now.
I have all my track masked off. now its time for the paint.
What kind of paint are you using?
Sid
Interior flat Latex
OK. Was worried there for a minute you might be tempted to try a spray can.
Sid
I would go with latex as well. But, as a point of information about spray paint and foam board:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcmwBdLD4jo
Update:
Got the painting done. ;D
I had an issue with one of my switches for my turnouts. Everytime I threw the switch for one particular turnout into the diversion route it would short out the whole layout..(Not Good >:() So I checked all the wiring and found no problems with it.
I then pulled the turnout from the layout that that switch was using and checked all the wires on the underside of it. Again found nothing wrong. I then started looking at the insulated rails on the turnout itself. I noticed that one of the rails looked like it was contacting a rail where it shouldn't be. So I made the gaps a little bigger on all the break points on the turnout.
I reinstalled it and hookup up all the wires and tested it. and the short was gone. Just another day of model railroading... ;)
Oh it was a Bachmann E-Z track turnout.
you are catching on quite well. model railroading is often about solving problems, and your logical approach will help you infinitely.
Thanks
Its been awhile since I posted an update so here it is.
I have started to build my tunnel mountain on the layout. I have the walls built and I need to cut out a piece of Hardboard for the facia and cut an excess hole so I will be able to get into the tunnel if something derails. I put skirting on for the end of the layout 4' section that the tunnel will be on so I can get it mounted then I can put the roof on the tunnels. I started to weather and ballast the track around the tunnel area. I guess that is where I'm starting the scenery at....lol. Doing a lot of stuff outside so not doing much to the layout. I have about a dozen Diesel locos rebuilt all with sound. I have one more to do then I'll be done with that for awhile. Bought a drill press holder for my dremel with a xy slide vise so now I can mill and not just drill with it.
Got a new soldering station temp control with digital read out. works very well. Thats about it.
Happy railroading, later.