Bachmann Online Forum

Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fxguy1 on December 23, 2014, 07:57:02 PM

Title: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on December 23, 2014, 07:57:02 PM
Hello everyone!

After my previous post about being new to the model railroad hobby and asking what next, I've come to need some advice on a Train Set. Now I know I'm posting this on a Bachman forum, but please if there is another manufacturer out there that will fit better then please suggest it!

Now, I'm looking to model some of the track in and around Champaign, IL which was located on the Illinois Central Line as well as the Peoria and Eastern Railway company (part of the Big four Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis Railway). I found a great roster of IC Steam Locomotives here: http://www.illinois-central.net/Steam%20Roster/SteamRoster.html

Alternatively I'm looking at creating a steampunk railroad to incorporate with my fantasy minis from my board games.

Anyways, for the Prototype, what would be a good approximate starter set ?

Thanks!
Tim
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Hunt on December 23, 2014, 08:24:46 PM
Suggest you forget train sets and focus on locomotives and rolling stock that are appropriate for what you want to model. 
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on December 23, 2014, 08:42:02 PM
Quote from: Hunt on December 23, 2014, 08:24:46 PM
Suggest you forget train sets and focus on locomotives and rolling stock that are appropriate for what you want to model. 

Thats kind of what I was thinking as well, but wasn't sure if there was a set out there that would be a close approximation.

Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 23, 2014, 10:22:50 PM
I am not a steam expert, but I can offer suggestions for the diesel era.

p&e was a new York central property, so any new York central painted locomotives should be appropriate. p&e itself owned a fleet of gp7s, which Bachmann makes in nyc colours.

Illinois central ran a huge fleet of gp9s, which Bachmann also makes. they also had a sizeable fleet of gp40s painted orange and white.

the Bachmann caboose is similar to those used by Burlington and Wabash, both of which ran in Illinois. the heart of the Wabash was its terminal in Decatur.

in addition to the Bachmann starter sets, those of athearn are good quality, walthers trainline are decent as well. keep in mind that if one set doesn't have everything you want, you can mix and match brands to get what you want.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on December 24, 2014, 05:08:58 PM
Quote from: jward on December 23, 2014, 10:22:50 PM
I am not a steam expert, but I can offer suggestions for the diesel era.

p&e was a new York central property, so any new York central painted locomotives should be appropriate. p&e itself owned a fleet of gp7s, which Bachmann makes in nyc colours.

Illinois central ran a huge fleet of gp9s, which Bachmann also makes. they also had a sizeable fleet of gp40s painted orange and white.

the Bachmann caboose is similar to those used by Burlington and Wabash, both of which ran in Illinois. the heart of the Wabash was its terminal in Decatur.

in addition to the Bachmann starter sets, those of athearn are good quality, walthers trainline are decent as well. keep in mind that if one set doesn't have everything you want, you can mix and match brands to get what you want.

This is exactly what I was looking for, something like this. To be honest I'm getting lost! I know that Champaign was part of the Illinois Central and also part of the Wabash, Peoria and Eastern Railway, and the Big four Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis lines at one time or another. Also realizing that I may have to start with Diesel until I can find a Steam Locomotive.

What about layouts? It seems that a lot of these lines are straight runs instead of a loop, how does that work out?

Thanks!
Tim
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on December 24, 2014, 05:12:27 PM
Also, what about scales? I was thinking of going HO because its widely popular and theoretically accessories would be easy to come by but while at the local hobby shop I noticed the selection of N scale was better than HO.

Any considerations one way vs the other? I mean other than size and space?

Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 24, 2014, 05:50:33 PM
Why were my 2 posts erased Mr. Bachmann ???

Luckily, FX, I had also sent you a PM.  That should not have gotten deleted too.

I think HO is best bc of size you work with and detail you get.

To all, a Merry Christmas!, Happy Holidays!  Even you, Mr. Over-officious Bachmann! :D
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on December 24, 2014, 05:57:24 PM
I'm thinking about going with the Bachman Rail Chief HO Set to get me up and running with. I think its a pretty close approximation of what ran on local lines.


Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 24, 2014, 06:13:50 PM
Consider strongly whether you will feel you have outgrown the system you choose after using it a (short) while.

For the $$, you get a good running car from the Bachmann Silver Series.  Being a good shopper will get you a good price as well.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 24, 2014, 09:19:26 PM
the rail chief would get you up and running with decent equipment. you will also probably want to get a few switches and some extra track as well. you can often find 40% off coupons for hobby lobby, which stocks this set.

bear in mind this set is somewhat of an anamoly. the bnsf paint on the loco and caboose is current, the cars themselves are steam era prototypes with more modern lettering.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 24, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
Jeff I believe the Rail Chief set he is looking at contains the steel not n/s EZ track.  Would you still recommend?
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 24, 2014, 10:08:34 PM
I have a rail chief set. yes I would recommend. steel track can be replaced at a later date. bear in mind the cost of all the equipment and track in the set, with the 40% off coupon at hobby lobby the price is about $120 for what would list at over $300 if bought as individual pieces. I would, however recommend that any additional track purchased be nickel silver, and that the steel track be used on sidings if possible.

in the old days we used brass track, which was much worse than steel to keep clean. this is a dc set so keeping track clean won't be as uch of an issue as it would be with dcc.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:02 PM
Quote from: jward on December 24, 2014, 10:08:34 PM
I have a rail chief set. yes I would recommend. steel track can be replaced at a later date. bear in mind the cost of all the equipment and track in the set, with the 40% off coupon at hobby lobby the price is about $120 for what would list at over $300 if bought as individual pieces. I would, however recommend that any additional track purchased be nickel silver, and that the steel track be used on sidings if possible.

in the old days we used brass track, which was much worse than steel to keep clean. this is a dc set so keeping track clean won't be as uch of an issue as it would be with dcc.


That was my first thought too, that I could purchase the set to get up and running and replace track as time and money allow. As it stands, I'm not even sure what layout I want to do. Since this is a DC set, is it upgradeable to DCC or is DCC something I can add on to it later on down the road?

Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: ACY on December 24, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: Fxguy1 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:02 PMSince this is a DC set, is it upgradeable to DCC or is DCC something I can add on to it later on down the road?
In my opinion adding DCC to this locomotive is not worth the time or money required for the conversion. If you are considering DCC, I would suggest one of the following sets:
Echo Valley Express (includes 2-6-0 with DCC & sound and an EZ-Command System)
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/00825.jpg)
Thunder Chief (includes F7-A with DCC & sound and an EZ-Command System)
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/00826.jpg)
Digital Commander (includes a GP-40 with DCC and FT-A with DCC and an EZ-Command DCC System)
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/00501.jpg)

If you buy any other Bachmann trainset the locomotive will not have DCC and converting it will not be worth the time or effort when you can simply buy a new DCC locomotive for a very reasonable price. Bachmann DCC locomotives can be found brand new for around $40. Here is one such example: Bachmann FT-A with DCC for only $45 (http://www.thefavoritespot.com/p-3984-bachmann-ho-scale-train-diesel-locomotive-dcc-equipped-ft-a-santa-fe-red.aspx)
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 25, 2014, 07:17:05 AM
Wow Jeff :o, I am shocked as I do not ever recall seeing you writing anything but negative things about steel track and as long as I can remember, have only ever recommended n/s.

Yea, I know full well about 'the old days', I used brass track as well.  Will still be using some as well.  To me, it is still better than steel track.

I can't see buying something that I am only going to be replacing anyway and something that will more than likely cause me h/a's.  That includes a rather cheesy power pack.  I would put more time into some more shopping around and see what can be found with the right kind of track.   And believe me, I'm a guy that loves coupons.  Of course, when you compare the cost of each item to the overall set, your numbers are going to be similar to what you exampled, but that math works for just about anything that you can compare buying singly to comparing buying as a set.

I think your Athearn suggestion was a better one, that at least comes with Bachmann EZ n/s track.  I still think more along the lines of Hunt's train of thought, as the way to go.

And I will be honest and admit while this has nothing to do with train items, I don't like Hobby Lobby's position regarding their employee's health insurance and I would not give their owners my hard earned dollar.

ACY's suggestions are good too, if FX is going to go DCC.  It seems to me he is still trying to decide.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Jerrys HO on December 25, 2014, 09:33:32 AM
I started with the Digital Commander set and still use every thing except the track. Gave away or sold all 18r's as that is the only disadvantage to the sets that I found. No sound on board were available at the time except for the Dynamis sets and a little pricey to start off with knowing I was going to eventually go with a better DCC system. The new Thunder Cheif with sound on board seems like a good starter deal and can be found cheap. under 200.00 at the FS store.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 25, 2014, 01:36:00 PM
jb,

I don't necessarily like hobby lobby's politics either, but if I boycotted everybody I thought was screwing over their employees, I would be rich because i'd have nowhere to spend my money.

as far as steel rail goes, I don't use it and haven't for years. but then again, I don't use ready made track on my railroad either. the only store bought track I currently use is an atlas turntable. everything else is handlaid nickel silver code 83 or code 70. that said, my recommendation for this set rests on the fact that it gives a lot of bang for the buck. were I to buy everything separately, the track would be nickel silver, and the cars silver series. the steel track can be made to work until it can be upgraded to something better.

fx,
this set, and almost anything else can be upgraded to dcc if you have the determination and some basic soldering skills. dcc systems are expensive but decoders for locomotives are not. I would suggest that you take a long look at the various dcc systems on the market as they are not all created equal. the lower end ones will run dcc equipped locomotives but won't do much else. a full featured system, even as a starter set, will offer full access to everything dcc has to offer. you can program your locomotives to run the way you want them to for example, or consist them together so that they run together.

there is an advantage in installing the decoders yourself. some decoders factory installed to not fully support speed control, for example the basic dcc onboard locomotives I have will not let me adjust the top speed settings. using an aftermarket decoder will allow you to choose a decoder that supports these settings. this is the route I am taking with all future purchases of non sound locomotives.

upgrading the train set cars to the equivalent of silver series is simple. you replace the plastic wheels with metal ones, and add a little bit of weight to the cars.

overall, the standard Bachmann train set to-day is light years ahead of what they were just a few years ago in terms of quality. as a matter of fact I would rank them as good as or better than the quality stuff I had when I was growing up in the 1970s.

one final bit of advice that will save you a lot of grief. before you run anything on your track, carefully push them over the rerailer section in the set, and make sure that the metal trip pins on the couplers do not snag on the rerailer. if they do, carefully bend the ins upward with a pair of pliers so that they clear. one jaw of the pliers should be on the top of the coupler head where the pin seats, and the bottom jaw on the curved part of the in. gently squeeze until the pin starts to move, then checque the car on the rerailer.

doing this before you run your trains will prevent the pins from snagging the rerailer at speed and bending the couplers, and save you the costs of replacing the damaged ones.

 

Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: ACY on December 25, 2014, 01:54:12 PM
Quote from: jward on December 25, 2014, 01:36:00 PM
upgrading the train set cars to the equivalent of silver series is simple. you replace the plastic wheels with metal ones, and add a little bit of weight to the cars.
Jeff, I actually have purchased a great deal of the white box standard line Bachmann cars and what I do is add Intermountain wheels to all of them, install a Kadee #148 or #5 and add a little bit of weight. I buy the bulk packs of 100 wheels and 25 or 50 pairs of couplers and it ends up being much cheaper than buying a silver series or other brand piece of rolling stock. Unfortunately Bachmann has discontinued this line for separate sale and they can only be found in the lower end train sets.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 25, 2014, 03:05:07 PM
I find a lot of the older white box cars in the local hobby shops, especially hobbytown usa. they are selling them for about 1/3 the price of silver series. even with the cost of upgrade they are still about half the price of silver series. I generally use Bachmann metal wheels on mine, but have been known to use whatever is available on them. I generally run the cars with their original ez mates until they fail, then replace them with kadee 148s. as long as the trip pins are adjusted so they don't snag on trackwork, the ez mates seem to hold up well.

Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: ACY on December 25, 2014, 03:32:17 PM
The local club in Youngstown, Ohio doesn't allow anything without metal couplers or drawbars to run on the layout.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 26, 2014, 10:47:27 AM
Jerry I think the fact that you no longer make use of the steel track and have been giving it away says all that needs to be said right there.

Jeff please don't misunderstand or misdirect my point about HL.  This is my "icing on the cake" so to speak as to why I would not buy this set with steel track.  I would be in the same position as you if I strictly let my principals stand in the way of opening my wallet, although beside WalFart, I am not aware of too many other employers I solicit who I know are screwing their employees.  Maybe you know more of them? 
I agree with you 100% that even this set is much better quality than the ones available when you and I were kids.

FX, there is a special trip pin pliers tool that performs the job Jeff is describing.  It is worth the $20 bucks to get it.

When you guys buy or pick up white box cars, do you find they have the "friction" pin set up on the trucks?
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 26, 2014, 11:07:34 AM
no friction pins on te ones I buy. those types of cars would have horn hooks. as far as I know, Bachmann had switched to using bolster screws long before they switched to ez mate couplers. all cars I am buying have ez mates already, and are the equivalent to what is being sold in the train sets.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: ACY on December 26, 2014, 11:26:37 AM
jbrock27,
I only buy the Bachmann rolling stock that has knuckle couplers, I don't buy the older cars with the older couplers and plastic bolster pins. The cars are essentially Silver-Series cars without metal wheels or Mark II couplers (with metal spring), they have a plastic spring and of course the coupler is plastic. The Silver-Series cars sometimes include a load or a bit more detail than the economy line white box equivalents.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 26, 2014, 02:29:02 PM
Got it guys, thank you.  I will have to keep a lookout for these then that have the screw secured truck.  I did not realize this line was out there just prior to Silver Series line.  I only have gotten one like that style before and it was given to me as gift to reciprocate for some wiring I did on an old, old Blue Box Athearn loco.  I replaced the knuckles that had the plastic spring and plastic wheel sets and now it is much nicer, better running car.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: ACY on December 26, 2014, 02:50:08 PM
For clarity, the white box standard/economy line rolling stock was produced at the same time as the silver series rolling stock. The way I read your post you seem to think these were produced before silver-series came out and then discontinued when the silver-series came out. However, they were produced (with knuckle couplers) from the late 1990's until sometime this year when they were discontinued for some unknown reason and can now only be found in train sets. At my local hobby shop they retailed for five or six dollars. When they first came out in the late 90's, my hobby shop sold them for $2.49 each. For comparison, at the time an Athearn blue box kit was about $4.50 at that time at my local hobby shop.

If only I could go back and time and buy more rolling stock for those prices, but back then I didn't have the financial means to buy as much stuff. Parking cars at the county fair and officiating soccer games was my only means of income in the 1990's.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 26, 2014, 03:01:41 PM
Your are correct ACY.  Your read of what I thought was right on.  Thank you for clarifying what was a misunderstanding on my part.  I have seen these white boxed ones a my LHS, but they are about $10-no thank you.

Hats off to you for being a soccer ref.  I played in high school.  The year after I graduated, they won the class B state title :D
Refs in any youth sport are under-compensated and under-appreciated, for sure!!
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: ACY on December 26, 2014, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 26, 2014, 03:01:41 PMI have seen these white boxed ones a my LHS, but they are about $10-no thank you.
That is too much in my opinion, I would only pay up to maybe $7, $5-6 is a good price.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 26, 2014, 07:22:20 PM
hobbytown usually sells them for about $#6.99-$7.99, about the same price as a model power car. but the Bachmann cars are much better running, and have body mounted couplers instead of truck mounted on model power.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 26, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
Agree gentleman.

Thank you Jeff, I will have to search to see if there are any Hobby Towns around. 

How are the walkways on these cars?  They a molded piece as one with the car box like Walthers Trainline or a separate piece?
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 28, 2014, 10:23:50 PM
...still hoping for an answer to my question on the walkways.  Thanks ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on December 28, 2014, 10:35:49 PM
walkways are separate. poste this last night, but it must not have gone through.

Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on December 29, 2014, 06:19:33 AM
Cool.  Thank you for your response and help Captain.

There seems to have been some quirky things going on with postings disappearing as of late.  And I don't mean ones that are put up, then get deleted.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on January 08, 2015, 01:08:07 PM
Well, I made a decision to go the piecemeal route. I decided to try and follow the book "HO Railroad from start to finish" by Jim Kelly. So I bought the Atlas code 100 nickel silver track and cork roadbed. I bought a Walthers Santa Fe locomotive to start off with and a Railpower 1300 controller to give me a basic start. I figure by following the book it will take me a while to go through each chapter / step and that will help spread the cost over a longer period of time. I'm building a table using 1X2 frame with foam core board as the top /surface.

The only problem I'm seeing is that some of the components used in the book are no longer available (not very many though! ) and so I have to find a suitable alternative to the Con-Cor 6100 ramp/hopper car set and the operating hopper cars. Also need to find an alternative for the faller B-950 Cement Mix Plant.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jbrock27 on January 08, 2015, 07:23:38 PM
I like all your choices so far!
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: jward on January 08, 2015, 07:58:01 PM
I would go a little heavier than 1x2 on your framework. I usually use 1x4s, better to overbuild than underbuild.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: rogertra on January 08, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
Quote from: jward on January 08, 2015, 07:58:01 PM
I would go a little heavier than 1x2 on your framework. I usually use 1x4s, better to overbuild than underbuild.

I agree while, 2 x 4s are over kill.

I use 3/4" x 4"reject cabinet grade plywood.  That's cabinet grade plywood with minor defects making it unsuitable for cabinets but great for benchwork and sub-roadbed, risers, etc., etc.  I then use 2 x 2 legs on the aisle side of my benchwork while the side against the walls is screwed to the wall studs.  Angle braces from the legs to the wall side of the benchwork, forming a triangle, makes for very ridge and solid benchwork for my 10 x 30 foot around the walls railroad.  Fortunately I have access to a quality table saw for cutting 4" wide strips of 3/4" is no problem.
   
Cheers

Roger T.
Title: Re: Suggestions for a Newbie Train Set?
Post by: Fxguy1 on January 08, 2015, 09:57:56 PM
I've already made the decision that I'm no longer using foam core board anyways, not after this setup. I'm trying my best to make it work because I spent the money on it. Especially when luan 1/4" is only $9.99 a sheet at Menards. The 1X2 isn't too bad. I framed it out and then placed a crossbeam where the seams are for the foam core board. I made the frame larger so that I was able to sink the foam core board flush with the top and tacked strips around the edge to nail it to.

But definitely would prefer doing some benchwork next time.