Happy New Year Everyone.... I have a Few General Question's maybe get some of other forum's members thought's....
For Christmas I got some Bachmann Sliver Series single dome tank Car's & Box Car's for my Layout 6 Tank Car's & 6 Box Car's...
I also got Woodland Scenery's Dust Monkey's... They attach to the bottom of the wheels & are designed to KEEP the Rail's free of Dust... The Package states the Monkey's will keep track free from dust & light debris & AID GOOD Electrical Pickup for the Loco's But Not intended as a way to clean the Rail's...
I have seen this Product many times @ my HS & was thinking of trying this item out in the past wile I was in the Building Stages of my layout...
I am now doing some running sessions on my layout now & going to run the Monkey's...
My Questions are what should I expect..... What are some of the Con's if any... What will I benefit from the Monkey's....
I am Afraid the Monkey's will Hang up going across my switches in REVERSE when Doing "YARD SWITCHING"....
They seem like a Good Product to use & will be handy I like how you can HARDLY see the Monkey's in Mid-Train once there coupled to the bottom of the Wheels... Going to do some Run's Today with the Monkeys "Took a Vacation Day from Work to play on my Layout" LOL.....
Any suggestions or thoughts will help I never Used this Item...
They are a good idea, but I wonder if they are too light to be very practical. Dust is not a real track problem most of the time, rail oxidation is. I'm going to get some of these monkeys though and try them out before judging them, they may be really great..
"Dusy Monkeys" do exactly what they say they do, keep dust off the track, period.
There's a complete Woodland Scenics "Tidy Track" system, consisting of several different and expensive kits, for actually cleaning track.
I find an old kitchen towel, a Brite-Boy, and Walthers Track Cleaning car for tunnels, work just fine.
Len
Dust is the least of my worries, it's Gulf Coast salt air. I operate about 3 times a week and most of the track stays ok but around the switches I have to clean all the time. I used a Brite Boy early on but found that a "Cratex" block does the same thing but is much less abrasive and if it leaves any grit behind, it is microscotopic partiscules which I wipe off with my finger.
I used code 100 rail on this layout and was sorry i did it from Day 2, wished I'd gone code 70 since this is a branch line. To compensate for the inordinately heavy rail section I have really buried a lot of the track ties and bottom half of the rail in pea gravel ballast, not unlike off the mainline occurrences on my prototype, and am burying other sections in weeds. It does make the code 100 effect go away but makes cleaning track a more exacting job.
I am not convinced they dust monkeys are necessary. if you run your trains regularly, dust on the rails is not going to be a problem in HO and larger scales. dust is more a problem settling on car tops and roofs. dust monkeys won't do anything that a bright boy or track cleaning car won't also do, and the latter two do a lot more than clean dust. plus, you have the potential problem of the snagging on switchpoints, all in al, they seem like a solution in search of a problem.
I thought about the switch point problem too.
Picture of ballasted and not yet ballasted code 100 rail.
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296/Florynow/imagejpg1_zps2efe8030.jpg) (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/Florynow/media/imagejpg1_zps2efe8030.jpg.html)
another thing to consider is I use rail zip on my rails so the monkey would do no good.
I use rail zip for better conductivity and easily wiped clean and re apply. Easier for me to keep the track clean. A bottle of rail zip goes a long way as you don't use a lot and I only apply every two to three wipe downs.
I did hear that even a monkey could use Rail Zip...
I never had a problem with dust and would pass on the Barrel of Dust Monkey whatever. I am afraid sometimes to ask what some of this stuff costs.
TM, where do you like to buy this "Cratex" stuff? Thank you.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 04, 2015, 02:02:13 PM
I did hear that even a monkey could use Rail Zip...
OOO,OOOO,OOOO,AHHH,AHHH,AHHHH!
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=&scale=&manu=&item=&keywords=Cratex&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search
I used rail zip on a previous layout a few times and found it very unsuited to ballasted or sceniced track.
Thanks for the link on the Cratex.
Should I ask, is the place you have found it for the best price?
you probably used way too much rail zip. just a drop or two on the rails and the trains will track it around. it's the same concept as wahl oil.
Yep, that is exactly the way I use the Wahl.
I got a couple of those eye drops containers people use for contacts or wetting their eyes (think like a Visine bottle). Cleaned them out good with soap and water, let them dry and put the Wahl in them. The small opening is perfect for doing exactly what Jeff said.
I actually got the best info on rail zip from roger t, a little drop in front of the loco and let it take it around the layout for you. If not enough to your satisfaction, do it again.
How big is the opening on the Rail Zip container? Isn't also the same as ATF?
The bottle the Wahl comes in has too big an opening to not apply more than needed to the rails.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 04, 2015, 02:36:54 PM
How big is the opening on the Rail Zip container? Isn't also the same as ATF?
The bottle the Wahl comes in has too big an opening to not apply more than needed to the rails.
Heard all kinds of replies as to the relationship to ATF and have no clue. I don't think it is that too expensive to buy a bottle of RZ to worry about if ATF has any other additives that may effect our modeling. 1 one oz. bottle goes a long way (still on my first bottle) as it does not take much to put a thin film on the tracks and it is not or does not effect ballasted trackwork or scenery.
No worries. People use ATF w/o probs.
So the opening on the Rail Zip bottle is small enough, not to have too much run out?
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 04, 2015, 03:12:34 PM
No worries. People use ATF w/o probs.
So the opening on the Rail Zip bottle is small enough, not to have too much run out?
Oops! forgot about that. Tip is cut to size like on stupid glue. I just take a straight pin and puncture the tip.
That's perfect size then!
About the Cratex block, I'm not worried that much about the price of an 8 buck item. It's not worth the time it takes to save pennies, although that is sport for some folks.
Besides I get most of my stuff from my friend's dealership at a steep discount, I pay way less than the prices you see. I hardly get anything off the internet because my friend with the discount can usually at least equal the price if not best it. Plus my money stays at home in my community, something that doesn't always seem to matter much any more.. . However I'm of the age where it's still a big deal to me. I know that others don't see it that way. Please allow me to think the way I do. Thank you.
Jward, the rail zip instructions said ,if I recall , to apply it to the rail, let it sit for a day, then wipe. That's what I did and it was a mess. Maybe I should try it again letting the train spread it around, that's a lot better.
Yup that's better but I tend not to wipe but every 2 weeks and then re apply. Usually when wiping down I use the same rag after shaking it out.
USE INSTRUCTIONS: FOR PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY. Read all directions and cautions
before use.
Remove cap and apply Rail-Zip to clean cloth, cotton swab, felt pad or sponge. Apply directly to
surface area to be treated. A thin, uniform coating is best. Do not rub Rail-Zip. Product works
chemically, not mechanically. Allow product to work overnight (10-12 hours) to penetrate and
protect. Optional: Remove any excess residue by wiping lightly with clean cloth lightly moistened
with water.
However, I just apply Rail Zip directly to the railhead, just a few drops per rail, and then run trains through it. I usually place the few drops of Rail Zip on throat of my staging yard.
I don't recall all those instructions when I first purchased the product, 10 plus years ago, I'm sure the bottle says "Apply directly to the railhead" but I can't find my container at the moment to double check.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: rogertra on January 04, 2015, 10:51:36 PM
USE INSTRUCTIONS: FOR PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY. Read all directions and cautions
before use.
Remove cap and apply Rail-Zip to clean cloth, cotton swab, felt pad or sponge. Apply directly to
surface area to be treated. A thin, uniform coating is best. Do not rub Rail-Zip. Product works
chemically, not mechanically. Allow product to work overnight (10-12 hours) to penetrate and
protect. Optional: Remove any excess residue by wiping lightly with clean cloth lightly moistened
with water.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger, was it not you that said he put a drop on the rail and let the wheels move it around the layout. I know it came from this forum as I started doing just that.
TM, please feel free to think any way you would like and thanks very much for the info. It sounds to me, that even though you say the $$ is not important to you, you have managed to get really cheap prices through your buddy, so I guess that helps you to say you don't have to worry about the price. I do and don't feel the need to make any apology for looking to get the best price I can for something. Never had the privilege of owning 15 rental properties.
Here's the real question Roger. Do you think Rail Zip is basically ATF?
Jerrys HO.
Yes, I do put drops on the rail and let trains spread Rail Zip around.
Unfortunately, while you were quoting my post, I'd realised I'd forgotten to add that at the end and reposted the edited post after you had quoted me. Sorry about that. :(
Have a look below and you'll see my edited post.
Cheers
Roger T.
6'' bead on the rail head to be exact, and 15yre. not 10.
You had me worried I followed the wrong advice, even if I did it still works great.
I told you to stop worrying so much ;)
Rail-Zip was banned at a club I used to belong to. One enterprising individual applied it to the track according to the instructions on the bottle. The result was locos, even with traction tires, just sitting there spinning their wheels. Took a week to get things cleaned up and running again.
If you're going to use R-Z at all, this is one instance where forget the instructions on the bottle. One drop per rail, and spread it with the trains. And not very often at that.
I'll stick to my clean cloth and Brite-Boy for the tough spots.
Len
Quote from: Jerrys HO on January 04, 2015, 11:13:04 PM
6'' bead on the rail head to be exact, and 15yre. not 10.
You had me worried I followed the wrong advice, even if I did it still works great.
[/quote}
I've since changed that to a few drops, possibly because after that initial application, a few drops is now all it needs, at least so far.
Wow, 15 years of use? Didn't realise it's been that long. :)
Yes, sorry about the mix up with the edited post but I'm glad that you like me, find it works great.
As far as the other posters who find problems with it, all I can say is they must be doing something wrong?
"Wheels spinning"? What did they apply it with, a sponge or a paint roller? Sparingly and only in one place, like the throat of a staging yard is all I can suggest, not all over the whole trackage, which sounds like the spinning wheel club did.
Cheers
Roger T.
re: "Wheels spinning"
From Roger T's post earlier in the thread:
QuoteUSE INSTRUCTIONS: FOR PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY. Read all directions and cautions
before use.
Remove cap and apply Rail-Zip to clean cloth, cotton swab, felt pad or sponge. Apply directly to
surface area to be treated. A thin, uniform coating is best. Do not rub Rail-Zip. Product works
chemically, not mechanically. Allow product to work overnight (10-12 hours) to penetrate and
protect. Optional: Remove any excess residue by wiping lightly with clean cloth lightly moistened
with water.
The guy applied a "thing, uniform coating" to the entire layout. With the result mentioned.
Also not the bit in the instructions about, "...to penetrate and protect." Rail-Zip was developed in the 'bad old days' of brass track, which is more porous than nickle-silver, primarily to fight the blue-green oxidation brass is notorious for. It's really not necessary for NS track.
Len
All sounds like common sense on how to apply ::)
Did not know that brass was more porous than nickel silver.
Roger, anyone, want to take a stab at whether RZ is the same as ATF?
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 05, 2015, 06:42:07 AM
All sounds like common sense on how to apply ::)
Did not know that brass was more porous than nickel silver.
Roger, anyone, want to take a stab at whether RZ is the same as ATF?
I think what jbrock27 was saying is the "spinning wheels" guy did apply a "thin uniform coating" over the whole layout. That is where he went wrong. Still can't find my original bottle but I'm sure the instructions from 15 years ago didn't say that. However, the instructions I downloaded and posted, see post below, say "apply directly to the area to be treated". Nothing about over the whole layout. If he did put it over the whole layout, that's his mistake, as I said below. I'm sure my bottle said to apply a thin strip on the rail head about six inches long, which is what I originally did.
Rail Zip was introduced about 15 years ago, way after brass rail went out of fashion so it is usable on nickel silver silver rail, which also gets dirty, as does steel rail. So it's suitable for use on all rail.
As for RZ being ATF, it certainly looks and smells like it.
Anyway, I will reiterate. First time use: - Apply a six inch strip on both railheads along your most travelled route, yard throat of a staging yard for instance. Run trains, let the wheels of the cars spread the Rail Zip around the layout.
I never clean mine from the railhead, I just leave it there. Applied in this manner, hardly affects traction at all. In fact, I had a rather steep grade, over 2%, up from my staging yard and my 4-8-2s, both light and heavy and my 2-10-2s could all pull a 16 to 20 car train up the grade unassisted both before and after the application of Rail Zip.
Cheers
Roger T.
Off topic to Brock ..... 15 rental units put me over 200 k in the hole over those years, never to be gotten back. It was a misguided endeavor, it was an " under water" deal that could not be quickly escaped despite umpteen lawyers examining the deal. Think "1980's S&L Crisis." It was a privilege to get out and get my life back. Lessons... Always research investment deals thoroughly, and never have "partners". (Code word for "chump".)
Maybe you can see now why a couple of bucks here and there in model railroad stuff doesn't matter much to me.
Model railroading is fun. Cheers.
UPDATE...I used the Dust Monkeys on my layout during a operating session this past weekend... I installed the Monkeys mid train on the rear set of wheels on a Boxcar The Monkeys worked well on all parts of my Layout across all my Switches on the main part of my layout the Monkeys also had no issues in my yard area smooth across all my 13 switches & Crossovers... NO Derailments or issues with the Boxcar wheels at all... After 1 - 1/2 hrs of running I inspected the track on my layout All the Rails where nice clean free from dust... I looked at the monkeys themselves & they had signs of dirt on the them I was surprised & well Pleased on how this product works on keeping the RAILS free from Dust & Light Dirt.... I will still use the tried & true method of using a Bright Boy to clean my rail's but will use the Moneys as well.... Nice Product to have... Thanks for all the Input on how other keep there Rail's Clean...
Thank you for the reply Roger re: ATF. BTW, I was not the one who talked about how someone had applied RZ. My only comment about it was it seems like common sense would be applied to how to apply it.
TM, I am sorry to hear that :'(. It sounds like at one time you, or someone you know said "hey this would be a great $$ maker". It was good you bailed out when you did w/o further financial damage. Someone approached me about this great idea back in the '90s and I said, "I'll pass thanks". They tried to convince me to do it bc they knew I was handy. I said just as you pointed to, I don't want to have my life taken away by this, so "no thanks".
Still don't have any trouble with dust bunnies on the layout.
around here we have ads on the radio all the time about flipping houses. seems like just another get rich quick scheme to me. it's amazing how little research people do into these things, especially what happens if things go wrong. the promoters will make their money and get out, leaving the gullible with a mountain of debt.
Jeff;
Solution: If you are going to invest, make sure you do your DD. on a stock or whatever. Also make sure you know exactly how this whole mechanism works. I have made a good part of my retirement in the market-but I still do not recommend it to anyone. As far as I am concerned, I got very lucky at the right times.
On "Rail Zip"... If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
Wahl's, if not the exact same thing, is a verrrrrrrrry close second. My personal opinion is that you are right about the ATF thing. It is like anything else; learn about it before you use it. What do I have in a can under my layout? Yep-you guessed it!
SGT C.
sarge,
I have a much better solution. do not invest in anything you don't already understand. it is possible to make money through good old fashioned knowledge and hard work. in fact it's what this country was built on. too many people want to take advantage of others, then cry when they themselves get scammed.....
maybe I am in the minority, but I would rather have something I earned than something I got by less than honourable means.
All very good points gentlemen.