I just got my first train set in many years, so I wanted to test it out. It's been a while, but it's not my first rodeo. Saying that, I know the importance of proper track assembly.
So, everything is plugged up ready to go, and nothing. No light, no movement. The first thing I noticed is that the engine's drive wheels won't move with my thumb. Are they supposed to be that tight or should I be able to manually move them easliy? I didn't try to force them.
I checked continuity on the track and that's good. Should I be getting voltage across the track? And what should it be?
Thanks,
musket
The 4-4-0 loco uses a worm gear drive, which pretty much locks the wheels in place unless the motor is spinning. If you hold a 9V batteries contacts against the pick-up wheels, does the motor run?
Which set do you have? There should be an item # somewhere on the box, or at least a set name.
Len
Len, there's no number but it's The General. I got a fresh 9v battery and it tested at 9.8v. I put it across each set of wheels, as I'm not sure which are the contact wheels, but I think it's the front truck. Anyway, it did not run. I tried the wheels on the engine and the tender.
To ask again, do you know if I should be getting voltage across the tracks? I may have more than one problem, here.
Thanks for your input.
musket
If the throttle is turned on and the speed control turned up, you should read DC voltage between the rails. If you're using EZ-Track make sure the connector on the end of the red cable is completely seated on the rerailer track connectors. Sometimes when new, it will feel like it's all the way on, but it's not. It takes a little extra push to seat it.
I believe the 'General' has the motor in the tender, with a drive shaft to the loco that turns the main gears. In which case electrical pick up uses the wheels on one side of the tender, and the opposite side of the loco.
So the 9V battery trick doesn't work, unless you have a snap on connector with wires (available at Radio Shack). In which case you snap the connector on the battery and touch one wire to a bronze pick up on the tender wheels, and the other to the screw in the back of the loco cab with a wire under it. If it runs, the problems either the power pack or the track connection.
Len
Thanks, Len. I'll try the 9v and the track test.
Well, I tried the 9v test and still got nothing. I did notice the black wire from the tender to the loco was loose at the screw on the back of the loco. I, also, was unable to get any voltage reading across the track nor from the accessory terminals on the controller.
Frankly, I think I have a bad motor AND a bad controller. Any other ideas?
I want to get on the phone with Bachmann before I return it to the seller. BTW, I bought it on eBay and I assume Bachmann will not cover repairs. True?
Thanks,
musket
Bachmann will not service items bought on ebay unless they are a licensed dealer such as The Favorite Spot. Third party sellers are not covered, if you think it was from an authorized retailer, post the name or a link here and I can let you know for certain.
Most likely you will have to either return the item to the seller on ebay or pay the standard service fee and shipping for both items. Often times people sell defective items on ebay to take advantage of people who aren't very knowledgeable.
I am of the belief that it is extremely improbable that you have both a defective locomotive and controller. The controller is likely fine. Your problem is most likely related to a loose wire in the locomtive or a bad connection. You could also have a missing, loose, or broken part such as a universal. If your locomotive is several years old the wheels or pickups could have poor conductivity and could need cleaned even if it never was run.
Quote from: musket on January 04, 2015, 04:04:00 PM
I want to get on the phone with Bachmann before I return it to the seller. BTW, I bought it on eBay and I assume Bachmann will not cover repairs. True?
Thanks,
musket
Sorry to say but there's your problem. :(
Should have bought it from a reputable store.
Cheers
Roger T.
I am of the belief that it is extremely improbable that you have both a defective locomotive and controller. The controller is likely fine. Your problem is most likely related to a loose wire in the locomtive or a bad connection. You could also have a missing, loose, or broken part such as a universal. If your locomotive is several years old the wheels or pickups could have poor conductivity and could need cleaned even if it never was run.
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This is a brand new set and was still shrink wrapped. That's not to say it isn't defective, however, it is less likely to have a missing part. I think I'll call bachmann tomorrow just for any further test proceedures.
Do you know what a universal or worm gear is? Those can occasionally come loose or break and would be smallenough that you could easily lose them without ever realizing it when you handled the locomotive.
I understand what you are saying, ACY, and I want to thank everyone for trying to help. It seems that with the 9v test that I would atleast get the light to come on or hear the motor in the tender turning.
Now, I just had another thought. If I hook the 9v battery to the track, would that be enough voltage to get some kind or response from the engine, IF it was working?
No DC voltage on the track with no trains on the track, and no AC voltage at the accessory terminals would indicate either a bad transformer or a bad speed controller. You tested this with a voltmeter on the appropriate settings - right?
If you are going to test a locomotive by touching the wheels with a 9v battery you need to make sure you are applying power to those wheels which actually conduct electricity to the motor. On Bachmann's old time 4-4-0 the motor gets power from four wheels on the tender (one truck is insulated on the right side the other is insulated on the left) and only one of the four drivers. The headlight gets power from two wheels on the front truck and one driver. The motor and headlight are different circuits - power to one does not indicate the other is getting power.
IIRC, Bachmann item number 736 has been on the market for less than a year.
TwinZephyr, I didn't realize the acc. were AC and I AM getting AC power on those terminals on the power pack. NO DC across the tracks. But, I did get DC on the track when I hooked up the battery.
I can get the light to come on with your info. Thanks. After trying every combination of connections on the engine/tender, I was able to get enough juice to the motor which allowed me to turn the drivers with a little thumb help. That's more that I got before. They won't turn on their own.
I'll keep trying as I would like to keep The General. They are hard to find and the eBayer doesn't have another one.
Thanks,
musket
A common ebay trick is to reseal a used or defective item in cellophane (clear plastic wrapping).
Here's a link provided by another member which used to post a lot of info....
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm
Also is this an HO and not N scale? Motor in the tender? I thought Ho motors were in the loco not tender.
Jerry
Jerry, thanks for the link. I'll check it out. This IS an HO scale and has the motor in the tender connected by worm drive to the engine. I'm wondering if I should just change scales. I don't want to get too deep into this. It'll just be used at Christmas for the grandkids.
Why change scales, this can happen in any scale. You need to isolate the problem first. As the link shows a multimeter is the best way to find power source troubles.
I knew there were motors in the tenders on older ones, just never knew they still made them that way. Of course I am not much into steam either.
Quote from: ACY on January 04, 2015, 05:50:55 PM
A common ebay trick is to reseal a used or defective item in cellophane (clear plastic wrapping).
ACY-
I think this is unfair. There is no evidence that Bachmann has ever put
bad merchandise back on the market with new cellophane.
-- D
D
I don't think he meant Bachmann, other vendors have probably done this to get it out of their hands in hope it would be returned to Bachmann instead of them.
Jerry some smaller and often inexpensive HO steam locomotives do have the motor in the tender. The Bachmann Old-Time 4-4-0 is one such example. Other manufacturers' 4-4-0s are also like this.
For your purposes, O scale or G scale is best suited for under a Christmas tree. Perhaps look into a Williams train set as needles and debris from a tree is more likely to affect larger scales. HO is generally not well suited for setting up on the carpet or floor even though it has a builtin roadbed. HO is still very suceptible to fibers and other hazards that can damage or adversely affect your locomotive. If you have pets, their fur will also cause problems. Additionally HO is very dependent on conductivity, that is small debris or sections of even slightly dirty track will render the train inoperable. G scale and to a lesser extent O can run on the floor with minimal problems or hazards. Pine needles and other debris will have a negligible effect on a G scale engine.
And Don, I am not saying Bachmann is doing this, I am saying third party ebay sellers attempting to rip people off.
Thanks ACY, I knew richg had one he posted one time but I never knew they were still in production.
I was going to suggest O for the tree also but he already had this one so figured let's fix it.
The HO 4-4-0's like the 'General', 'Jupiter', etc., have the motor in the tender, with a drive shaft to the loco that turns the worm gear that turns the worm wheel that makes the drivers go.
Exploded diagram here: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_4-4-0_American.pdf (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_4-4-0_American.pdf)
Len
Musket Ball, how did you go from reporting continuity across the tracks to reporting you were not getting any ??? What happened in between? In the event you were not aware of this; be sure you DO NOT connect the AC terminals from the pack to the track. The track is to be connected to the DC terminals of the pack.
You said you get AC current when you test the AC terminals of the power pack. Are you using a meter? When you use a meter to test the DC terminals what do you get? If you are doing all of this properly, getting nothing out of the DC terminals and nothing out of the loco with the battery test, you have done all you can with this. But, you should not be devoting your energy toward contacting Bachmann, it's not their issue to make right; this is something you should be going back to the Ebay seller on.
What method of payment did you use to pay for this?
While it is true that this stuff can happen in any scale, I believe this is more likely to happen when buying something like this thru Ebay, I would imagine with saving a few dollars in mind. As the saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, then it isn't. I agree with ACY's point about sellers "tricks of the trade". None of this is to say this situation can't be salvage, but alot of whether it is, is going to be dependent on you.
An old, blind cowboy wanders into an all-girl biker bar by mistake. He finds his way to a bar stool and orders a shot of Jack Daniels.
After sitting there for a while, he yells to the bartender, "Hey, you wanna hear a blonde joke?"
The bar immediately falls absolutely silent.
In a very deep, husky voice, a woman next to him says, "Before you tell that joke, Cowboy, I think it is only fair, given that you are blind, that you should know five things:
1. The bartender is a blonde girl with a baseball bat.
2. The bouncer is a blonde girl.
3. I'm a 6-foot tall, 175-pound blonde woman with a black belt in karate.
4. The woman sitting next to me is blonde and a professional weight lifter.
5. The lady to your right is blonde and a professional wrestler.
Now, think about it seriously, Cowboy. Do you still wanna tell that blonde joke?"
The blind cowboy thinks for a second, shakes his head and mutters, "No ... not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times."
NOW, let me explain. Using a multi-meter, I have CONTINUITY along the length of each track. This tells me the track will conduct electricity and complete a freaking circuit. When I hook the positive side of a 9v (the "v" stands for VOLT) battery to one track and the negative side to the other track, I can read 9.85v, on my multi-meter, across the tracks. When I plug the transformer/speed control to the empty track and turn the speed control knob thingy all the way around to the right (where is says FAST), my multi-meter reads no voltage across the two tracks.
The transformer/speed control utilizes a single plug to connect the wires to the terminals on the tracks, so I can't check the voltage coming from the transformer without taking it apart or cutting the track connector off the little cable, stripping the wires and connecting the multi-meter to the bare wires. THUS, voiding any warranty I might hope to have. So, there are no screw terminals on the transformer/speed control that I can connect the probes on the multi-meter to in order to do a proper test.
As far as being brow beaten over who I shouldn't have bought from and how I paid for it, I have no desire or time to continue that part of the conversation.
I have since learned that the eBay merchant is an authorized seller, so, I will simply return the entire set for exchange.
THANK YOU to Len, ACY, TwinZephyr and JerrysHO for giving constructive opinions and trying to help me solve the problem. I was trying to see if it was something simple, that I overlooked, before I went through the pain of boxing this set up and sending it off for exchange.
I will let you all know how this turns out.
Thanks, musket
You can get a stereo mini-plug like the one on the end of the red cable at Radio Shack. With the shell off, plug it into the jack on the speed control and measure the voltage between what are known as the ring and sleeve connectors. The tip connector is not used in this instance. If you read voltage, the red cable is bad, no voltage it's the speed control.
Len
Pretty funny joke. But being a GIANTS fan, I don't really like COWBOYS.
I was trying to help too. You should not let your embarrassment over your mistake manifest itself in the form of lashing out.
Your pack is definitely DOA if you have it hooked up properly to the terminal track.
BTW, you CAN check the voltage coming from the pack. But you are a really smart cookie, so you probably don't need me to direct you on how, you can probably figure that out for yerself, pardner.
Face facts, you have no warranty claim with Bachmann. The seller is definitely where you should direct your attention. You do what you want with regard to the seller, but I would not be the one eating the postage for the return.
But please, keep us informed of your progress.
Quote from: Jerrys HO on January 04, 2015, 05:52:46 PM
Here's a link provided by another member which used to post a lot of info....
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm
Jerry
Last I heard, said (former) member went to tyring to sell these door to door.