I'm ready to attach my layout on a 4x8 sheet. It is now atop a 1" sheet of Owens Corning FOAMULAR.
Should I slide another 1" sheet underneath before things are attached? I know much depends upon what I plan to do with scenery, especially water. Any other considerations?
THanks for any help
Not sure I follow Ken. Are you asking about putting 1, maybe 2, 1" thick sheets of 4 x 8 foam board on top of a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood?
Sorry for the lack of clarity. The layout now sits atop 1" of foam. Underneath that foam is the plywood top of the train table. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to slide another 1" sheet of foam between the table top and the foam that's already there.
I am nogt sure what you would gain by disturbing what you have already built. it seems to me that you would be better off leaving things as they are. trying to lift that sheet may cause things to shift out of alignment. it' sort of like jacking up a house to build a basement underneath.
That's a good comparison. Thanks.
How deep you want your cuts for rivers and ditches dictates.
I used a 2 inch piece to allow for a lake bed and small dips in land but it all depends on what you want, as does most of the hobby.
It is your base level, or lowest level.
For any height above you simply add more foam where you need more height. For raising, or lowering, track levels to new heights the woodland scenics riser system is your best friend. Going up levels is easy, if you want to go down, then add more levels of foam.
Trying to add a bottom piece of foam to your already occupied foam is going to be difficult at best. As you would only be gaining a couple of inches anyway, you could do the following, as I have in the past. Before you move the foam onto the 4 x 8, plan your waterway on the 4 x 8. Cut out the plywood. If the waterway crosses a support piece of wood, add wood "doublers" on the side of the cut into piece to add strength. After you mount the layout onto the 4 x 8, you can cut out your foam to expose the new waterway. You can cut into a support piece about 50% and still have plenty of strength if the support piece is not too long or the cut not too wide. Dave
Thanks, Dave. Good sound advice.
I've decided to leave the board with the 1" foam on top. I have Woodland Scenics 3% inclines doing a loop. I plan to build up the area inside the loop as a mountain (a monadnock, if you will) and do a lake halfway down its slope. The stream that empties the lake will disappear between two hills.
Monadnock, as in New Hampshire?
a monadnock is a geological term. it refers to a hill on a plain, that is not connected to other hills and rises well above the plain. if anybody is familiar with the Washington dc Frederick Maryland area, sugarloaf mountain would be a prime example.
and yes, that sounds a lot like the mountain in the centre of a 4x8.
Ahh, like Mt. Kineo.
We have Glassy Mtn. in upstate SC, a bald front with trees on top. It looks rather like a primeval anthropoid emerging from the earth.
If you are going to have even hilly terrain-as most of us at least have-then I would strongly suggest taking your time through the planning stages; this way, it will tend to go smooth. As far as strength, that 1-inch stryrofoam@ is pretty strong for this purpose intended; however, one might put frame of pine, poplar, etc under it for stability.
SGT. C
Thanks.
Yes, I have a 1/4" birch plywood top to the table. The 1" Styrofoam lies on top of the birch. I have screwed in a perimeter of 3/16" hardboard that frames the table. The hardboard extends up 4 inches above the foam on the back and the left side, but only an inch above the track in other places where the views are more important. This perimeter keeps wayward trains on the board and off the concrete 40" below, and it keeps things in place.
KD;
How I had intended that to go was to construct a frame; not 1/4" ply. The frame is usually constructed from 3/4" stock. Much more resilient and less "wiggle"-but it is your money. And time.
SGT. C
I would build a regular table before I did anything, then top it with 1/2" plywood then the foam. and do this long before I laid any track. you will never regret overbuilding a table, but an underbuilt one wil be an endless source of frustration.
I agree about the sturdiness. If I had just built a table for general purposes I would have used 1/2" or maybe a '3/4" (overkill) for the top.
But I followed the WGH Madison Line video for the table plan. I figured they knew better., and their plan was cheaper to build and lighter to move.
The 1/4' birch top is screwed and glued around the perimeter and 16" on center. I've braced the legs differently, so there's no wiggle room to speak of, and the table is flat as evidenced by my level.
For what it supports, I see no problem. My trains run fine.
Your money. "L" girder system is better. Get into some of the on-line sites regarding construction before you go monkeying around with a plywood top-which pretty much limits what you do. I frankly wouldn't do it; especially in light of using Styrofoam. But like I said, it is your money...
SGT C.
Well, Whiz, thanks for your input.
I guess you'll be able to put your table to heavier-duty use than I'll put mine to. I'll stick to trains and things on mine and not worry about the multi-faceted capabilities of my supported plywood.
Again, thanks. I'll put your suggestions to appropriate use.
:)
I agree with Rich on the L girder method. I went that route with my layout. Here's a shot of one corner. This central bit of framing is pretty much a 4X8 area. I don't see how one could get much lighter than I have.
(http://members.shaw.ca/wbearart1/Models/Benchwork005.jpg)
And this is now, looking into the same corner. I topped mine with 1/2" G1S fir. I cannot overstress the importance of building your railroad's foundation to the highest degree of quality. It will save you untold hours of grief in the long run.
(http://images59.fotki.com/v543/photos/9/3572619/13561775/photo-vi.jpg)
Sid
Looks great!
But are you really satisfied with those 1x2 legs, even though the bracing looks good.
Wouldn't 2x4's really make for a sturdier table? And why aren't you using a 3/4" plywood top? That would give you a much more solid foundation for the future. I'm sure that you'd agree that increasing the dimension of the top would supply you with a "higher" degree of quality.
Or am I missing something in this pursuit of the optimal train table?
I'm more than satisfied with the strength. You could park a Volkswagen up there. Those aren't 1X2's they're 2X2's. 2X4's are way overkill....so is the 3/4" ply. It's too difficult to make nice horizontal transitions in the roadbed with the 3/4".
You should look up the spans and weight that an L-girder is capable of supporting. I don't recall the exact figures, but I was surprised.
Have a look through my layout thread for a few more pics of the benchwork.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,8740.0.html (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,8740.0.html)
Sid
I checked out your layout plan, Wounded Bear. VERY impressive.
Where do you plan to park the VW? ;)
believe it or not, 2x4 legs are not any more stable than the ones I make from 1x3 and 1x2 lumber. picture ising one of those l girders as a table leg and you get the idea. the advantage is that you can only bolt a 2x4 leg along one side. my l shaped legs are bolted in on two sides which adds to their stability. I always make my legs bolted in so that the table can be taken apart easily if necessary.
To all;
There is an old saying ending with; 'it's how you use it". No doubt some of you remember the late Jack Parker of "Central Valley". He was a big proponent of 2X4 construction; and while it was pretty strong, was it all that necessary? Actually, there are a dozen ways I can think of to get around the issue of support. In my case, I wanted adequate stowage under the layout for reference materials, cars, structures, etc; so I built cabinets that actually support the layout and accomplish the other demand as well. In actuality, I wouldn't have normally done that, aside from my initial reasoning.
What I had done previously was to build a system of sawhorses, using 3/4" clear pine. These were adjustable, and stronger than a Georgia mule, while maintaining a low profile. The "L" girder system was bolted to them, the whole shebang was then bolted to each other. Again, there was storage shelving generally running the configuration of the layout, installed the horses that satisfied the demand at the time.
Both of these systems had merit for me at the time of construction, each for their own reasons. I don't advocate any one over the other; only that what the modeller does works for the modeller, and leaves said modeller alone. Sid's "L-girder" construction is an excellent example of what can work FOR you. Light, inexpensive, and totally accessible, it is within the grasp of most people in this hobby. Over the years and in many periodicals, such as MR, there have been many concepts. As I had aforementioned, it's your money. For mine, I am sitting here typing, and enjoying a plate of Domathes avgho lemoni...
SGT C.
I used 2x4's for legs because they were readily available at construction site's in the scrap pile's or leftover's (ask before removing) .
Jerry;
That is a HEALTHY bit of advice. A lot of guys have gotten in a world of... stuff because they neglected to get permission. By trade an electrical contractor (E-1), I see a lot of things like that happen. Bottom line? It is private property, and the materials were bough by another party. Again, I applaud you for that input. Be well!
SGT C.
How do you secure E Z TRACK to the foam board?
Low temp hot glue, silicone caulk adhesive, other kinds of plastic safe caulks/adhesives, carpet tape...
Good question. I posted that awhile back and had a lot of good input such as that from jbrock.
I have not as yet secured mine. A lot of oxen have been in the ditch, but when my expanded layout is ready, I plan to use two-sided tape from Lowe's (Shurtape). It's cheap, comes in several widths, and maybe most importantly, lends itself to changes in track position more easily.
Here's a link: http://www.lowes.com/pd_256904-14510-282640_4294715670__?productId=50037492&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=
BTW, Bach Man's Yardmaster recommended it.
Quote from: Jerrys HO on February 28, 2015, 11:37:33 AM
I used 2x4's for legs because they were readily available at construction site's in the scrap pile's or leftover's (ask before removing) .
I guess this method works great for those of us who are driving around aimlessly all day and can scope these spots out :D LOL! I suppose the rest of us will have to just have to resign ourselves to go to Home Depot, Lowes or the lumber yard to buy the stuff. (And this is coming from a frugal Scott) .
I need to ask
Jerry, don't you come across a lot of warped stuff that has been out in the weather? (Not that I don't have to sort through several pieces of lumber at any of the above mentioned places to find something that is NOT warped :D)
The HD store where I buy my lumber/ply has these items and more inside the store. They also sell pre-cut ply in several dimensions so you don't have to buy a whole sheet if you don't need it.
Gus
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 14, 2015, 02:19:07 PM
I guess this method works great for those of us who are driving around aimlessly all day and can scope these spots out :D LOL! I suppose the rest of us will have to just have to resign ourselves to go to Home Depot, Lowes or the lumber yard to buy the stuff. (And this is coming from a frugal Scott) .
I need to ask Jerry, don't you come across a lot of warped stuff that has been out in the weather? (Not that I don't have to sort through several pieces of lumber at any of the above mentioned places to find something that is NOT warped :D)
JBrock... the man of a thousand questions and all the right answers ;D
Diving aimlessly? I have a dispatcher guiding my every move. Even when not at work my eye's are looking around.
I probably find less warped material than you do in those big box stores ::).
Quote from: Jerrys HO on March 15, 2015, 09:47:50 PM
I probably find less warped material than you do in those big box stores ::).
I would not doubt that for a second, LOL! :D
And I am flattered by your compliment
Jerry, thank you! :)