HELP !! can anyone help me identify these cars, i purchased 6 Union Pacific diner cars from an estate auction recently they have 4 wheel trucks with very long couplers, the window glass & roof come off as one piece, there are no identifying marks or numbers any where . they are yellow W/ gray roof and car# is 328 on all of them. when placed on track& coupled the cars are almost 1 1/2 inches apart and lean to the side then then fall over! what is wrong? wrong trucks&couplers? :(
Try wider radius curved track - 22" radius minimum (the larger the better).
the track is not the problem all my Amtrak trains work fine on them,and the radius is over 22 on all my curves, it is how the trucks are mounted or just plain wrong! ???
Nothing is wrong with the passenger cars with the potential exception of them being underweight. Try adding some lead weight to the cars following the NMRA recommended weight. If they are IHC/AHM/Rivarossi passenger cars then each car will need at least 3 or 4 ounces of lead weight added.
but they lean and fall of track before even moving something is wrong with trucks or mounting?and way too far apart!! i know about weighing down the cars i had to add weight to my Amtraks
Quote from: Madjack on March 09, 2015, 02:43:11 PM
but they lean and fall of track before even moving something is wrong with trucks or mounting?and way too far apart!! i know about weighing down the cars i had to add weight to my Amtraks
Post a pic and maybe someone will see the problem! I can not see it from here.
What scale are these cars?
If HO, check how the trucks are mounted.
If there is a plastic peg, as used by AHM/IHC/Con-Cor, holding it on, it may not be pushed in all the way. Allowing too much slop between the truck and chassis. If one end has a peg, and the other a screw, a peg probably got lost and the wrong type of screw used to replace it. If they are designed to be screw mounted, the screws may need to be tightened on one or both ends.
If the couplers pull straight out from the end, they can be replaced with McHenry knuckle couplers that are a bit shorter.
And like someone else said, a picture would really help figure out the problem.
Len
Going back to what the Yardmaster said - Just because your Amtrak cars go around doesn't necessarily mean other cars will also. You need to see if the trucks are binding on part of the underframe and limiting the turning radius. Many full-length passenger cars just won't go around an 18" curve.
The OP already said his curves are larger than 22", so it doesn't sound like curve size is the problem.
Wobbling and falling off the track when the car's just sitting there sounds more like a truck mounting problem. Or possibly wheels not installed in the truck properly.
Len
I have a set just like you described, wish I never bought them. Since then I purchased the Bachmann Spectrum line complete set off EBay
So what kind were they? It might help come up with a way to fix them.
Len
Quote from: Len on March 10, 2015, 07:09:47 PM
So what kind were they? It might help come up with a way to fix them.
Len
Who are you asking the OP or me?
Sorry, I was asking you Jerry.
Len
Len,
I bought them in a package deal (so I thought), it is a mixture of Rivarossi,ConCor and AHM/IHC. They look to be of all the same manufacturer except the Rivarossi (more detail on the underside). Long talgo truck arms and plastic pin holding the trucks on.
The Bachmann Spectrum set I actually have is better detail, body mounted knuckles and metal wheel sets. I paid $10.00 more for that set than the other junk.
When I first got into HO I was buying just about anything that looked good :'(. Not anymore.
Jerry
That helps Jerry.
As can be seen in the picture here: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/223-970019 (http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/223-970019) flash on the pin ends and the trucks themselves (just behind mounting hole) is a problem with these cars. The cars have a similar bulge around it's mounting hole, so the car is pretty much balancing on that small circle of plastic. If the pin isn't in all the way due to the flash, it wobbles really bad instead of just bad. So making sure all of the flash is removed on the pins, trucks, and underframe is important. Checking to make sure the soft plastic used in the trucks didn't warp coming out of the mold is also important.
The obvious solution is replacing the trucks. IHC had a replacement metal truck, that screw mounted, that worked well. But IHC is gone now. Most other replacement passenger trucks are intended for cars with real bolsters, not what's essentially two thick washers stacked on each other.
So the possible fixes are:
1. Using an adapter like this http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/247-313 (http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/247-313) to mount a better truck
2. Do some underframe surgery to add a real bolster http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/521-802 (http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/521-802) and mount a better truck
3. Clean up all of the flash, fill in the car mounting hole with 4-minute epoxy, drill and tap for a 4-40 screw and mount the truck with a flathead 4-40 screw. In this case the cone of the flathead allows necessary, but not excessive, movement. There will still be some wobble, but nothing like using the plastic pins.
4. When the budget allows, get some better cars.
And McHenry 50 series couplers will shorten the space between cars considerably.
Len
sorry guys this site won't let me send my pics, i don't know what to do!!! i just recently retired,after being out of this hobby for about 32 yrs ,i started collecting Ho train stuff about 35 yrs ago now i have time to unpack every thing, and have started a very large layout with trains & Ho slot cars together. i have 7 separate rails & two slot car circuits! all on one layout called Whiskey Hollow
Madjack,
You can't post pictures directly to this forum. You have to upload them to PhotoBucket, or other picture hosting site, then link their location here using [i m g] [/ i m g] tags, only without the spaces.
Len
OK, i'm not computer savy i'll have to get one of my sons to try it! thanks for info.!but if you go to my Facebook page you can see them all in the Whiskey Hollow album, the last 40 pics are of these cars! oh and i tried to push the pins in further but it didn't do it! they still lean! i am working on the second slot car track now! the long road course.
HI, len the trucks that you sent link for look exactly like the trucks on these cars except the peg hole is back from center in sted of towards front!
Yeah, the picture is the truck for full length 85' cars, you probably have the 'shorty' 72' cars whee the pivot is moved back so they can make it around 18" radius curves. Both have the same types of problems I mentioned.
Len
My son showed me an easy way to show these. so we'll see what happens now!
http://imgur.com/mCDDxID
http://imgur.com/mjYi3qZ
http://imgur.com/ZC8VbsU
http://imgur.com/PBFQtRu
http://imgur.com/ArYlFF5
http://imgur.com/FdCCKgg
http://imgur.com/EPFkiY8
http://imgur.com/CWdUDBr
http://imgur.com/Fif6N6G
http://imgur.com/OJeJuZh
http://imgur.com/Wp3DqM7
http://imgur.com/t9RK6T3
Example: Placing img tags around link to image
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FdCCKgg.jpg[/img]
Displays the image
(http://i.imgur.com/FdCCKgg.jpg)
Okay! The pictures are a big help. From them I can tell a lot of things:
(http://i.imgur.com/mCDDxID.jpg)
The roof line is wrong for it to be a Con-Cor 'smooth side' car. And from your other pics of the bottom, I can see there are no 'Rivarossi' markings on the bottom a Rivarossi or AHM/Rivarossi car would have. So, considering the type of trucks and couplers, this has to be an IHC Heavyweight Diner.
Which means there's a major problem, since the IHC heavyweight trucks were 6-wheel, and for the UP black, with a coupler head that just cleared the end of the car. IHC only used the 4-wheel trucks on streamline cars with smooth roofs, not the heavyweights. And the heavyweight cars sit lower on the 6-wheel trucks than yours is on the 4-wheel trucks you've got. Which would explain the top heaviness that has them 'falling off the track' just sitting there.
I suspect someone had a box of cars and trucks that had been seperated from each other, and just stuck whatever was at hand on when he decided to get rid of them. If you can find some 6-wheel IHC/AHM/Rivarossi passenger trucks somewhere, putting them on will probably fix the 'falling off the track' problem cheaper than a complete truck upgrade.
Len
Len thanks for the reply but I do not have any intentions of fixing them up. The Bachman Spectrum one's are the one's I prefer now. One day the other's will find a new home.
Thank you Len, that is a big help,so you think they are IHC/AHM .and they just have the wrong trucks & couplers. do you have any idea where i can find the correct trucks? will any other brand fit? or should i just give them up! remember all my stuff has been in storage for many,many years. i would really like to fix them up! I think they will add some focus to my layout! I have a pair of Life-like U.P. FP40 engines to pull them.one powered & one dummy. well i think they are FP 40's thank you again LEN for your expertise on this matter!
There's actually someone on the 'bay selling the 6-wheel metal replacement trucks for a decent price right now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321674201881?lpid=82&chn=ps (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321674201881?lpid=82&chn=ps)
The 6-wheel trucks from IHC, AHM, or Rivarossi are pretty much interchangable, and will work on these cars if you can find them.
Or you could get complete cars with the right trucks here:
http://www.ustrainco.com/Passenger-Cars-Heavyweight.htm (http://www.ustrainco.com/Passenger-Cars-Heavyweight.htm)
Len
Thank you again LEN i will check them out! Have a Good day!
Are these what you are looking for?
http://www.ihc-hobby.com/product/3254 (http://www.ihc-hobby.com/product/3254)
Sid
Sid,
Yup! That's the plastic version of the correct truck for those cars.
For a second there, I though IHC was back. But apparently IHC Hobby Texas bought out the existing stock, and web page layout, when IHC went under and is selling it off.
Now if only Mehano could find an importer for there American style locos.
Len
Thank you wounded bear, for the link. WOW those are pretty expensive, guess i won't be using those cars! on my budget i won't be able to afford 12 of them!for a really long time! guess i'll either pack'em back up or get rid of'em Thanks guys for all your help!! any body interested in them? Thanks again guys! Have A Good Day!!
Whoa! Didn't notice the "Sold Individually" to the left of the picture. He must have broken the packages down, because I bought some when IHC was still around and the plastic trucks, 6-wheel and 4-wheel, came in a two pack.
For that price you could get complete cars here: http://www.ustrainco.com/Passenger-Cars-Heavyweight.htm (http://www.ustrainco.com/Passenger-Cars-Heavyweight.htm)
Len
Additionally like I said before replacing the trucks will not solve your problems, that is only the beginning of your problems. You will definitely also need to add 3-4 ounces of lead to the floor of each car to make them track correctly and not constantly derail.
Quote from: ACY on March 12, 2015, 01:01:36 PM
Additionally like I said before replacing the trucks will not solve your problems, that is only the beginning of your problems. You will definitely also need to add 3-4 ounces of lead to the floor of each car to make them track correctly and not constantly derail.
ACY,
I would say adding more weight to his problem would make it fall over at a stand still unlike his leaning problem.
He needs to fix the leaning issue before he adds weight. Most of my passenger cars have not been weighted YET and I have no issues with them derailing or leaning.
The 6-wheel trucks solve the falling over standing still problem. Unlike the 4-wheel trucks, there's a "hump" over the center wheel that minimizes the gap between the car and truck. It keeps the car from tipping too far and falling over on it's own.
Once that's fixed, yes a bit of extra weight does improve the tracking.
Len
Thank You again LEN for your advice i will see if i can find some new trucks. for now i guess i'll just pack them back away!
Quote from: Jerrys HO
ACY,
I would say adding more weight to his problem would make it fall over at a stand still unlike his leaning problem.
He needs to fix the leaning issue before he adds weight. Most of my passenger cars have not been weighted YET and I have no issues with them derailing or leaning.
I am not saying he should not also replace the trucks. You will have to take my word for it regarding the additional weight required. The IHC passenger cars are roughly 4 ounces below the NMRA recommended weight. I have recently done quite a bit of work on mine, including body mounting kadee couplers, installing metal wheels, and I added 3-4 ounces of lead on the floor of each car which also lowers the center of gravity which helps keep them from tipping over. As I am sure most of you know it is important to add the weight as low as possible for best results. You are correct that if the weight is added higher it will infact exacerbate the problem. However once the trucks are replaced with the correct 3 axle trucks and potentially the plastic bolster pins replaced with screws optionally, the added weight infact (provided it lowers the center of gravity) will be of great benefit because the IHC cars will wobble and tip over or derail quite frequently from my experience with out the added weight. If you would like to see some video evidence to support my claim, I can try to arrange that.
Like I said earlier, I agree with ACY. Once the correct trucks are installed, adding weight will improve tracking. I've got a bunch of these, from the days when I couldn't afford better, and could never quite bring myself to get rid of them.
I like to pop the wheels out and put 1/4oz A-Line 'peel & stick' weights between the center and outside axles. Some trimming of the weight may be needed on the coupler end. I use 1/2oz weights stuck to the inside of the center beams for the rest. Hold them in place, mark them, and cut them down so they don't stick out past the center beam. Use them in pairs, one on each side, to maintain balance.
Len