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Discussion Boards => HO => Topic started by: rains train on November 05, 2007, 09:03:21 PM

Title: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 05, 2007, 09:03:21 PM
Okay, so I have 4 tables going around my room, were the ends meet there is a gap, one is higher than the other, so when my train goes around it it derails....how could I fix this problem?  ???

Thanks,
Alex
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: SteamGene on November 05, 2007, 09:34:15 PM
Get rid of the gap and the difference in height.  That's basic benchwork.  If for some reason you must have a difference in height between two tables, build a roadbed that fills in between the two elevations.  Simple civil engineering,
Gene
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 05, 2007, 10:00:38 PM
See, it's a very small difference, but my passenger coach and engine keep derailing...if I got some extruded foam and laid it over all of the boards, would that work, because then I would think it would be just a slope..
Alex
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: Atlantic Central on November 06, 2007, 07:55:46 AM
Alex,

Sounds like the problem is that slope created by the difference is too sudden. Trains need gentle changes in direction for both curves and grades.

The abrupt change is lifting the wheels off the track, and it will be worse with long cars like passenger cars.

Sheldon
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: r.cprmier on November 06, 2007, 07:48:17 PM
If your passenger trucks were built-bolt for bolt-like the prototype, with all of their equalization, then the trucks would have some give; but that is not the case, huh?  They are SOLID; and therefore, one end is going to ride up into the atmosphere, while the other end teeter-totters on that back axle.  If it has any side to side lateral motion, it will derail the car when the foward axle comes back down on the rails- and/or the train.  Fun, huh?  If you don't believe me, then watch that truck real close when it goes over that hump!

Word of advice-just an echo of all on this forum:  Pay attention to your joinery, whether it be benchwork, and/or trackwork.  Be meticulous! Use some forethought and planning.  All the craftman kits and brass locos won't mean a tinkerer's hoot if they can't run for beans without derailing on lousy trackwork!.

I have a goodly number of sprung (equalized) trucks, and I wouldn't depend on the springs for EQ if my life depended on it!  They are way too stiff.  Good trucks, and they generally do the job; but still way too stiff to do justice to the situation you have at hand; at least for my peace of mind.

Rich
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 07, 2007, 02:14:34 PM
I'm going to get some 4" by 8" sheets of foam and put them over my plywood, so then it will only be a slight grade.

Alex
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: RAM on November 07, 2007, 03:32:14 PM
Alex, I don’t know why you can’t get the tables the same height.  You should be able to shim up
one end of the table, or shim up the roadbed.  I do not know what you are using to hold the tables
together.  You can not have movement between tables.  You can use c-clamps to hold them
together.  Make sure that the joints in the track are straight.  If you have a straight track on one
table and curve section meeting at the table joints, than you are just asking for trouble.  What you
need to do is fix the problem and not just cover it up.
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: jayl1 on November 07, 2007, 06:41:59 PM
Woodlang Scenic makes a foam grade riser.  That may help too - if all else fails..
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 12, 2007, 07:24:36 PM
I don't have roadbed yet, I don't even have all the track I need, and the tables arnt held together really. :-\
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: SteamGene on November 12, 2007, 07:59:30 PM
Rule #1.  Benchwork must be solid.
Rule #2.  Refer to Rule #1.
Gene
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: kevin2083 on November 12, 2007, 10:12:49 PM
I thought rule #1 was 'obey all rules'
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: Jake on November 13, 2007, 12:31:30 AM
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You may want to look into buying all 3 of those books.
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 14, 2007, 10:51:43 PM
My benchwork is solid....just uneven..
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: SteamGene on November 14, 2007, 11:09:08 PM
Uneven is not solid,

Gene
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 14, 2007, 11:25:24 PM
Well, it doesn't move...that's....solid.... :(
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: SteamGene on November 15, 2007, 09:31:30 AM
You've said that your benchwork is not held together.  While each section may be solid, the fact that they are not a unified whole makes the entire thing unstable.  Look at modular layouts, designed to be taken apart and put together.  They have a means - normally C-clamps- to lock each module to its neighbors.  You need the same thing. 
Gene
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: Conrail Quality on November 15, 2007, 09:23:07 PM
Quote from: rains train on November 14, 2007, 11:25:24 PM
Well, it doesn't move...that's....solid.... :(

But the trains will move...horizontally ;)
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: r.cprmier on November 17, 2007, 12:54:43 PM
raintrain;
Gene gave you some good advice.  What's wrong with you?  If you build or use halfassed ANYTHING in this area, it will fail!!!  Pay attention to people who are experienced at this stuff!  You'll fare better.

Rich
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: kevin2083 on November 17, 2007, 01:45:31 PM
Quote from: Conrail Quality on November 15, 2007, 09:23:07 PM

But the trains will move...horizontally ;)

still better than vertically,  though
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: chuff_n_puff on November 18, 2007, 04:02:38 PM
You have been gave some good advice on track  buliding. Take it from experience, if you don't have good, solid, level, smooth jointed track, you are going to have derail nightmares. I had to learn the hard way, as none of my trains would run without derailing. You can not have any sudden inclines or declines either. You have to make a gradual change in all grades. I tore up 150 feet of track and started over and finaly got a trouble free track, but only by making sure every piece was perfect. You can't even have a piece that is not secured without asking for trouble, especially in curves. If it wiggles the least bit, you got a derailment. I could never get the hang of track nails, with EZ track, as most of the time they would warp the rails beside of the nail. I hot glued all of mine in place and used grass and rocks to cover up the glue. I got 3 sets of rails now and can have 2 trains running on each rail for hours and have no problems!
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on November 26, 2007, 07:59:40 PM
Well, the people at K-10's (train store in my area) told me the foam would work, they've been working with trains for a long time  :-\
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: SteamGene on November 27, 2007, 06:16:27 PM
Foam works.  No question.  Foam between platforms works, as long as the platforms are solidly fastened together. 
You've got a lot of guys trying to help you.  You know the joke about the guy praying to God to win the lottery and finally God says "Give Us a break.  BUY A TICKET!" ?
Buy a ticket.
Gene
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on December 05, 2007, 01:31:03 PM
Okay, I'm going to fasten the legs together and get some foam, and hopefully it'll work!  :)
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on December 17, 2007, 08:32:14 PM
The foam is working beautifully!
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: glsummers on December 19, 2007, 01:18:36 AM
derail, a lot of guys gave you a lot of grief and could have been more gentle. The key to everything you do to run nice smooth trains is make that track work as smooth as you possibly can. Do what ever it takes and what ever method that works to get the roadbed smooth. I work on a club layout that did not have good bench work. It was solid but they did not have it very smooth. I have used everything from foam to drywall hot mud to cark stock to get the track smooth. Merry Christmas. Larry
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: Guilford Guy on December 19, 2007, 01:22:07 PM
How about some pictures. It may help us figure out what is going on better than what we understand now...
Title: Re: Derails
Post by: rains train on December 26, 2007, 12:44:24 AM
Its fine now guys, the foam is perfect! Makes the unlevelness into a grade..which the trains can go down without derailing!