There has been considerable speculation of the past couple of years about the slowing of sales in On30.
I am probably wrong, but I think there are two contributing factors:
a) finite number of modelers who use On30
b) locomotive fleet saturation.
I have:
1 BLI C-16
2 2-6-0
1 OF 4-4-0
1 Heisler
1 2-6-6-2
1 OF 2-8-0
1 0-4-2T Porter
3 diesel kitbashes
The prize of the fleet - 1 brass Backwoods Miniatures NG-16 Garratt 2-6-2+2-6-2
That is a lot of motive power for a medium/small layout.
The only reason I bought a Heisler is because its my favorite geared locomotive type. Promptly bashed it with the Backwoods Miniatures kit. Big improvement IMHO.
I would not be surprised if others have fleets like mine. At some point and time, enough motive power is enough. So, you just stop buying more locomotives.
Somehow Bachmann needs to increase the size of the On30 market - tough when you look at the demographics of the hobby, or focus on rolling stock with fewer locomotive pieces being introduced.
I touched on this in another thread, but there's a good bit of truth to what you've written. While I'm not in On30, I am in 1:20, which has surprising similarities with regard to the kinds of railroads we operate and how we go about collecting pieces.
The reality is that we model small railroads that don't need a lot of equipment. Once that initial rush of filling out the roster is over, we buy things that we "want," much more than what we think we need just to fill the sidings and roundhouse stalls.
I don't think there's a point where "enough is enough" with regard to motive power (at least not with me because I'm something of a locomotive addict), but I'm certainly not expanding the roster near as fast as I was say 5 years ago.
Later,
K
Are sales in On30 really slowing or is this a guess? ???
If they are, I would think that as On30 is a niche even among model RRs, there was only ever a finite number of people who were ever gonna take that on. And like any hobby, there are always trends that rise and fall in popularity.
But I really wonder if On30 stuff is selling less than it did. On30 was around for a long time before Bachmann did anything, but I wonder if people took off with it as fast as Bachmann entered the market and went with newer stuff over time.
Don't forget, many people in the hobby chance scales and gauges as often as someone changes channels when watching TV.
Maybe, just maybe, the entire development team is sitting in a remote cabin out in the wilderness sucking their thumbs and rocking gently back and forth. All trying to recover before releasing anything new. That's a "Maybe" remember?
They've learned and probably dread the inevitable first question.
"What is the minimum radius" the new South Kohlrabi and Corncob 2-12-4T will negotiate on a 20 percent grade?
Enough to make me think about another career. ;D
I think On30 will stay around long after all of us are long gone. It's always been there and as long as there is a piece of track someone will find a way to make something move on it.
Jes sitin' and thinkin' is all.
Quote from: Chatham on August 06, 2015, 05:21:46 PM
They've learned and probably dread the inevitable first question.
"What is the minimum radius" the new South Kohlrabi and Corncob 2-12-4T will negotiate on a 20 percent grade?
Man, I can so imagine that very thing. I showed someone pictures of my in-progress On30 layout and the guy actually marveled at how wide my curves were. Actually, almost all the mainline curves are at 22-24" but that's as wide as I could make them for the room size. He said, "I'd have made those curves way tighter" and then asked if my ten-wheelers could take 12" radius curves.
Yes, I'm serious about him asking, and so was he! ???
Ah yes, minimum radius, brings to mind periodic conversations years ago on the On30 Conspiracy Yahoo group.
I wonder if there are parallel conversations in the RC plane groups, "How slow can it fly before stalling?" and then they go fly only at that speed.
Absurd.
Hello,
I wonder about the constant nagging of On30.
On30 is not a gauge for railroad empires. (Except maybe you model DRG&W or C&S).
On30 Narrow Gauge is for logging, mining, industry and short lines.
For that there are enough locomotives and rolling stock you can buy from Bachmann and other more to the 10 manufacturers. Alone Bachmann delivers 9 types of locomotives in 50 varieties in 2015.
Not every prototype vehicle lettered for each railway company you wish will be built in On30 as "ready-to-run" model.
When I see what are advertised for wonderful things every 2 months in the Narrow Gauge and Shortline GAZETTE, I 'm not worry about the existence of On30. Take an journey through the internet too and search for On30.
Rejoice over the existing RTR models and kits, make kitbashing and build your layout.
Railexpert
:) :) ;) :D
Quote from: railexpert on August 07, 2015, 06:29:43 AMNot every prototype vehicle lettered for each railway company you wish will be built in On30 as "ready-to-run" model.
Good luck getting most modelers to understand that. I got incredibly lucky when Bachmann decided to make the very prototype I wanted to model (ET&WNC ten-wheeler) in the right paint schemes for the time I wanted to model that RR. That
alone brought me back into the model RR hobby after an absence of many years.
Total luck, being such a relatively obscure prototype (Yes, I know who at Bachmann is the big ET&WNC fan and that's why we have that in G and On30 from them). I do seriously wonder why people really think that some equally obscure prototype would be a big seller when in fact, they might be the
only person who'd buy one. :o
I would actually be interested in On30 if there were D&RGW prototypes being made, I've almost bought an On30 K-36 or K-37 from a different manufacturer but would prefer if Bachmann made something like that. Their 2-8-0 seems to be a good starting point for a C-21 or C-25(although I don't know what the dimensions look like... and the C-16 made from another competitor seems to have only made one run(lack of sales perhaps?) which may attribute to why Bachmann doesn't make D&RGW prototypes in On30. Although a K-27 would've been a more popular engine than a C-16 IMO
Not trying to nitpick, but it would be impossible to produce a prototypical model of a D&RGW engine in 0n30. The D&RGW was a 36" gauge railroad, while 0n30 is a model of 30" gauge railroads. If you want to model the D&RGW in 0-scale, why wouldn't you choose the (correct gauge) On3? Lots of prototype stuff available there.
BTW, I do have a few 0n30 models and a small layout under construction. My models follow the few 30" gauge prototypes and an imaginary 30" gauge construction railroad. Not one model of a Southern Pacific GP9!
Jerry, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Question for everyone. What prototype 30 inch locomotive would you like to see Bachmann produce. Note that I wrote 30, NOT 3, NOT 2 but 30.
Think about it and remember that they need to make a profit from it as well. If you look you can find some On2 stuff available and On3 is readily available. Some even convert the larger Bachmann locos to On3. After all, they were 3 foot prototypes and just squeezed the wheels closer together. ( slightly more involved than that but you get the point.)
So what 30 inch gauge prototype would you like to see made next? I myself would love to see a nice little Prairie 2-6-2 with a new tender.
Just sittin n' thinkin' again.
My 2cents worth, A Baldwin 75B Class OF 2-8-2, slightly smaller than a K-27.
25 were built in 40 days for Argentina in 1923, a couple of which are in service on the Esquel line.
Not likely anyone would produce the models I have in various stages of construction. <G>
a Henschel IF 2-8-2
2 Mitsubishi IF 2-10-2s
Kitson-Meyer IF 2-6-0+0-6-2T
Ken Clark
GWN
Quote from: JerryB on August 08, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Not trying to nitpick, but it would be impossible to produce a prototypical model of a D&RGW engine in 0n30. The D&RGW was a 36" gauge railroad, while 0n30 is a model of 30" gauge railroads. If you want to model the D&RGW in 0-scale, why wouldn't you choose the (correct gauge) On3? Lots of prototype stuff available there.
Because it's been done before, just in super small quantities and O 2-rail measures out to about 5 scale feet between the rails... you can count rivets all you'd like but I'd imagine there's modelers who would prefer not to buy up On3 track and would rather use HO scale track or On30 track which seems to be less scarce.
Most On3 Locomotives also go for a 4 figure price range, for that kind of money I'd rather buy HO modern brass like my BLW M-67
Sorry guys, Didn't mean to start an argument about scale this and that. :-[
Simply asked what prototype 30 inch gauge locomotive you would like to see produced.So far it seems nobody wants anything.
For those who care there is now available a model of the K-1 ready made and painted in WHR livery, but the cost might be a bit high. There are five left if you look for them. I know that they should be 2 foot gauge but they are making these available in On30.
I saw the last two production models of the Garratt 2-6-2+2-6-2 numbers 49 and 50 and they were beautiful. The price charged by the hobby shop that ordered them was bit much considering that you could call and order it yourself for at least a thousand less. He sold one but buggered off with the other when the shop closed I assume.
Anyway, if anyone cares to post an answer I'm sure that someone will respond to it. Possibly even Bachmann themselves?
On30 or rather 30 inch prototype if you will.
Cheers,
Chatham
Chatham,
I would like to see Bachmann create an On30 ALCO 2-6-2 which could be built in a minimum gauge of 30 inches in reality. Don't know if any were actually built to 30 inches
http://narrowmind.railfan.net/262T-ALCo30-42.jpg
I think this would be a good small but chunky engine suited to logging and mining lines. It has character and is something a little different. It gets back to the idea of small locos that have wide appeal and many uses. :)
regards
Geoff Potter
Hmm, interesting looking thing. Long overhang aft of drivers pretty much nixes it from use on Big Hauler train set curves.
OH! Wait a minute, this is the On30 section, not the large scale section. Oh well.
Wonder if it was also available in tender configuration.
Hello,
To understand what Bachmann means with On30, read the Bachmann Message Board "F.A.Q.s" then" On30" and there "What is On30". There is described after which prototypes Bachmann makes his models:
The prototype locos and cars have gauges between 2' and 3' 6''. - That's the crucial point.-
The locomotive factory Baldwin delivered the same prototypes in different track gauges.
Bachmann manufactures all his On30 models in the same track gauge, but from prototypes with different track gauges. That's all.
Put the large 4-6-0 next to the little 2-4-4-2 and you won't believe first that they are made in the same 1/48 scale, because the prototypes have different gauges.
Railexpert
;)
Chatham,
another interesting loco in On30 would be the dinky little 20 ton Diesel loco built for Bethlehem Steel Corporation, Pennsylvania. It would be a great replacement model for the Davenport, and very simple to power as it had no visible motion.
This is a simple Whitcomb 0-4-0 DE with tons of character.
Track gauge: 2ft 6 inches Wheelbase: 5ft Length over buffers: 14ft 11inches Width overall 6ft Height overall 8ft 10 inches Wheel diameter 33 inches.
Bethlehem Steel Corps No 21 was operated in California apparently. A good image appears on page 63 of "Westinghouse equipped Diesel-Electric locomotives 10 to 80 tons"" reprint of 1942 edition by Railhead Publications ISBN 091211309X circa 1980.
Other 20 ton 3ft gauge Whitcombs were operated by Bethlehem Steel, but I reckon this one 30 inch one has real potential and charm. I can find images on the web of similar Whitcombs, but not this one. If anyone has a photo they can post of this loco, that would be great!
regards
Geoff Potter
Ken mentioned the Argentinian Baldwins that still occasionally run for charters. I went down there in October with Bernd Seiler of Farail, which was an excellent experience. Great line with fabulous scenery and gutsy locos - 30" gauge heaven. Check out this link for my pix from the trip.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/104438411@N02/sets/72157649425444015
Traingeek
Enjoyed the photos, liked the Baldwin Dbl header. One day I will make the trip, hopefully the
Rio Turbio might have there Mitsubishi back in service after rebuilding, which is currently underway.
Ken Clark
GWN
Any small type Porter,Baldwin would be a plus.something that we can bash and have fun with .leave off the extras!,the DCC and sound so the cost can stay down and let folks pay extra for it if they want it.
Royce
I believe the biggest problem was not the lack of engines but getting the gear problem solved. I have about five, maybe more On30 engines that the gears need to replaced. I stopped buying engines as enough was enough.
I am still selling off most of the On30 engines and bought HO engines without changing the track. Now I run the good On30 stuff and when the need arises, change to HO. Maybe some day I will be out of On30 completely but I really do not wish to go that route with eBay. Can't sell any On30 locally as most are into HO or N scale.
It would have been a different story if metal gears were used instead of plastic but that is old history now.
Cheers the old fardt in Oregon
My collection is also satturated.
Another two reasons are the price of the models and the shippingcosts to Europe.
Those prices have rissen exponentailly after i started in 2007.
Ton
Maybe a diesel that is somewhere in size between the little critter has-mechanical and the Whitcomb? Something small for switching on a tiny layout, yet large enough for putting a good sound system into.
Also, I doubt there'd be that big a draw for this, but considering it's one of the most-ridden narrow gauge railroads in the US, why not one of these?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/willysmb44/alaska2015/leaving_zpsg9gy56nq.jpg)
Yes, I took that photo myself. Been to the WP&Y twice...