i will be building a 2x8 switching layout soon, the ad&sc railway, it will serve it's namesake towns name i already have a track plan for the yard, someday i will extend it when i have the space, for now it's just a yard. it takes place in the early 60's, it is one of the last steam strongholds in north america. there is diesel paint scheme i designed myself, however, i have a few variants, which one do you think is the best? http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/new%20schemes_zpsckafkiep.png~original. my track plan, http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan_zpssvvi9g7j.png the upper left industry is a natural gas plant, the one on the top right corner is a lumber yard, the bottom left hand corner is the flour mill, the lower middle is the plastics plant, and the lower right is a slaughter house ( a little bit dark but i need to do something with my stock cars!) The grey lines surrounding the track at the bottom is street running. cars will be brought in from the street trackage, switched, and sent to their industries, afterwards the empties will be sorted back into a train, the loco will run around it and "depart". updates will be provided as it progresses
If you click on the image icon, directly under the I in the "Add BBC tags:" it will generate a pair of image tags: [i m g][/i m g] (without the spaces). If you put your Photobucket link between them, the picture will show up in your post, like this:
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/the%20three%20nominees_zpsxdpetxa9.png)
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/the%20three%20nominees_zpsxdpetxa9.png)
I think you got the wrong link for your track plan. So you might want to try again.
Len
yeah i know, i'm a silly noob! i tried to do this quickly and accidentally used the wrong image, i have no experience with photobucket yet so i am going to make a fool of myself, i fixed i though so my track plan can be seen, anyway are the paint schemes cool and does it sound awesome or should i be ashamed of myself? i realized they are somewhat similar to the cnj scheme, it was unintentional, here are some new ones: http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/new%20schemes_zpsckafkiep.png~original, my track plan for real this time http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan_zpssvvi9g7j.png
Using the Photo Bucket direct link to your track plan placed between IMG tags as shown next following Code: will display the plan on this board.
[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan_zpssvvi9g7j.png[/img]
Displays
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan_zpssvvi9g7j.png)
sedfred. what scale equipment will you be running - HO, N, ??
This information needed so this Topic can be moved from General to the correct Discussion Board.
ho scale, do you think the track plan is good? also what paint scheme is your favorite?
Sedfred - I think your track plan has merit...with some changes. You could vastly 'uncomplicate' things a lot by eliminating most of those run-around crossovers. May I suggest that you label (or number) all the tracks on our plan so we, the peanut gallery, can efficiently add our comments to specific areas of your layout plan?
Simply put, turnouts equal money...more turnouts equals more money. Additionally, turnouts are (many times) the source of electrical woes (therefore: less turnouts = less woes). Assuming you are having rolling stock enter/leave the layout via cassettes; where would said cassettes be located? Is it possible to eliminate some of the trackage with sector plates (or a traverser)? The plan leaves little space for structures - leading to the question: what is the purpose of this section of railway?
If you do a search of this website (Bachmann Forum) for the Monks Island Railway, you will see that I am a 'switching operation fan' (especially on very small to micro plans. With this in mind, I strongly suggest that you visit Carl Arendt's excellent website...and especially go through the extensive "Scrapbook" pages. Carl's website is owned by another person (Carl has passed away); but the flavor of the project remains intact. [BTW: Is the Monks Island Railway perfect? No. Are there problems with some of the plan? Yes. That is why I am currently rebuilding the layout to eliminate most (all?) of said problems. Remember, a model railroad layout is never completely finished.]
In summary: More track does not necessarily make a better model railroad experience. Your plan has some similarities of the old
"Switchman's Nightmare" plan of yore. I suggest:
- Have a definite theme to your railway
- Make a full-sized mock up of your track plan and place some actual model rolling stock upon it...does the plan still work?
- Determine what the main purpose of your 'section' of said railway is (does it serve one industry, several industries, a harbor, etc.)
- Carefully look at the length of your sidings (how many cars will each hold...is that enough for operation?)
- Can your track plan be made simplier (and, therefore, more fun to operate)?
The hardest step in building a railroad 'empire' is in the planning stage. No track plan is perfect (that is why those of us who have been in the hobby for many years have built several [many?] layouts...after 50+ years in model railroading I have built my share). Try to get whatever track plan you like to be as close to YOUR preception of perfection as possible. [DISCLAIMER: Your perception of perfection will change over time...trust me.]
All in all this is a good first attempt. May I suggest you join other forums and elicit their suggestions. An excellent, non-threatening, forum is Free Rails. There is a lot of help available on that website (among others).
Best wishes,
Ray
You might want to download the trial copy of 'AnyRail' layout planning software. The free version will let you place up to 50 pieces of track and has libraries for several track systems, including EZ-Track. You can download it at:
https://www.anyrail.com/download_en.html (https://www.anyrail.com/download_en.html)
Generally speaking, if a track plan fits in your space limits on the computer, it will fit your space when built in the real world.
Len
CNE Runner, the layout needs to hold a maximum of 6-7 cars, i will do what you said and create a mock up and see if it works, i need to be able to run around the cars, i didn't quite know which ones to remove but i gave it a shot. i kept the street running but removed the long track at the end that led to nothing, i was planning on using it as an area for a coal and water tower but i found another area. here is a revised track plan, the street section has been kept, it is the mainline that cars will be brought in from, someday it will lead to another industry instead of just ending at the scrapyard. the industries: NG- natural gas, L- lumber yard, FM- flour mill, P- plastics plant, SY- Scrap yard. here it is: http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan%20revised_zpswsk89stl.png~original, len, i will try that,
Welcome to the model RRing hobby!
As to your proposed layout, I believe you would be creating a nightmare. I count at least 14 turnouts in your proposed 2'x8' space!
Prototype railroads serving a group of industries will usually have a single runaround that is long enough to accommodate the longest cut of cars going to a single industry. The crew (actually the conductor) works out which end of a cut the engine needs to be on, and arranges switching on the runaround track so the cars to be dropped at the appropriate place without needing a runaround at each industry. That planning and operation is a great deal of the fun in switching layouts and switching puzzles.
If each industry had to have 3 or 4 turnouts as you have sketched, the costs in land, trackage and operations would be huge.
Take a look at some plan books and on-line resources. 101 Railroads You Can Build is one of my favorites.
Hope this helps,
Jerry
i think the one you saw was the old one, i reduced the number of turnouts in it, it is in my last post but just in case here is the revised one, http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan%20revised_zpswsk89stl.png~original, i honestly think this is the most improved it will get, it might be simpler without the street running but i am a street running nut so i just had to have it! i can't think about how i could use the layout with any less turnouts, what do you think i could improve on? i didn't label the tracks but can you see any problems with it? thanks for the info. i am probably going to build many layouts in my lifetime, i keep imagining my finished layout as comparable to john olsen's jerome and southwestern but i am now certain my layout will look terrible! i might practice with pieces of scrap wood until i get better. benchwork should be up by christmas time, like i said there will be updates.
sedfred's revised HO track plan
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/8x2%20track%20plan%20revised_zpswsk89stl.png)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/Pickanotherid/EZ-Track/EZ_2x8_Switching_zpsxtfoftwt.jpg)
I got curious how much of that would actually fit on a 2'x8' layout using EZ-Track, so cranked out the above using RR-Track. All of the switches are EZ-Track #4's. The yellow building in the lower left is a 'Feed & Seed', rather than a flour mill. All of the flour mill kits I could find would fill almost the entire 12"x12" square.
As is, it's pretty obvious a very small switcher and short cars will be needed. The switching leads by the lumber yard, back of the Feed & Seed, and back of the Scrap Yard look like they'll only handle a loco and one car at a time. There's not a whole lot of track shifting that will change that, due to the length of the EZ-Track turnouts.
Using #4 turnouts (or their equivelants) of a non-roadbed track system, which are significantly shorter, adds at least car length to the switching leads.
Len
nice! that looks way better than my ms paint drawing, think the feed and seed would work way better, natural gas plants can be pretty big so the rest of it will be a backdrop. that's what i shall do, thanks!
The footprints of the propane gas works and lumber yard on the diagram are scale representations of the Walthers 'Cornerstone' kits for those industries. There'a a 'Large Shed' and 'Small Shed' for the lumber yard. I only used the small one because of the space limitations.
Len
looking over the plan one thing that stands out is that the tail tracks are way too short. at 12" you will be restricted to 40 foot cars, tank engines and very small diesels. adding an extra 6" on each end of the layout would allow the use of 50 foot cars and diesels like the rs3, or small tender engines like the 0-6-0.
If the 8' length is fixed due to space limitations, as I mentioned earlier, the alternative is using a non-roadbed track system. There are at least three with #4 turnouts that are much shorter than EZ-Track. Using them will add 1 or 2 car lengths to the switching leads within the 8' length specified.
A couple of other consideration for using non-roadbed track:
- Most industrial area track isn't on mainline style raised roadbed.
- Industrial area track is generally lighter than mainline track. So code 83, or even 70, rail would actually be more appropriate.
- Using non-roadbed track lets you add some flex-track for the longer straight sections, eliminating track joints.
- Flex-track also allows the addition of slight curves to the long sections for a bit of character.
- Your Bachmann locos will still run fine on other styles of track.
Len
I suggest reversing the direction of the cross-over to the lumber yard. That gives you a more equitable track length between the lumber yard and the gas works. If you use something like the Bachmann 45-tonner or 0-6-0T and 36/40 foot cars, this should be a fun little switching pike.
Okay. I redid it using non-roadbed track, and flipping a couple of turnouts around in addition to ebtnut's suggestion:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/Pickanotherid/Atlas%20Layouts/Atlas_2x8_Switching_zpsb3vdceyd.jpg)
I'd say this is a bit more workable, and creates space for some flexibility in industry types and placement.
Len
Sedfred,
go to Google and type in "John Allen's timesaver" for a superb small switching layout.
Chuck
The "Timesaver" was designed and used as a puzzle, not a well thought out switching layout. It can, and does, cause operating problems when incorporated into a larger layout. Some background on the "Timesaver" can be fount at:
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/sw-timesaver.html (http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/sw-timesaver.html)
and
http://themodelrailwayshow.com/LayoutDesign/?p=2833 (http://themodelrailwayshow.com/LayoutDesign/?p=2833)
Lance Mindheim has written several books on designing and building switching layouts with operation, rather than puzzle solving in mind. His web page can be found at: http://lancemindheim.com/
There is a lot of good information out there on building small switching layouts, without falling down the "Timesaver" rabbit hole.
And, yes, I have built and enjoyed "Timesaver" puzzles. But not as a model of realistic operation.
Len
Sedfred my first layout when I was your age was two 2x8 s in an L shape. I imagined them to be two towns at both ends of a branch line. Each end had a runaround track, a 2 track yard, two industrial set outs, and a team track. One end also had a two track engine terminal.
After 40 years, I started my second layout, my present one. It is two of those els, with almost the same track plan, each in an adjacent room, with a connecting section that goes through the wall. Except now my layout is 15" wide.
You can get a lot of railroad on a narrow shelf.
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296/Florynow/image.jpg7_zpsgb5jvhd6.jpg) (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/Florynow/media/image.jpg7_zpsgb5jvhd6.jpg.html)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296/Florynow/image.jpg2_zpscz9sgpui.jpg) (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/Florynow/media/image.jpg2_zpscz9sgpui.jpg.html)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296/Florynow/image.jpg1_zps7gelfgfo.jpg) (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/Florynow/media/image.jpg1_zps7gelfgfo.jpg.html)
i decided i will use non roadbed track for my layout and flip the turnouts, it makes it easier to use, not to mention ez track costs a fortune! thanks for the help everybody! i did want to have an l shaped layout but that might take a bit of begging! my room is quite small, either way my layout will be awesome! i am having a bit of trouble with the scenery, i think just plain ballast is too boring but grass just doesn't fit, i'll figure it out!
If you go with standard turnouts and flex, you will save a bit of space. If you're not too intimidated, you can trim back the turnouts to gain another inch or so. If you go this route, consider using cork under the track. It will give you a bit more flexibility with the ground cover and buildings.
I have decided to make some improvements to the layout, i will take the top track and move it down much further so i have room for a flour mill, i will move the lumber yard down to the first track to make room for it, i will get rid of the plastics plant, i will put the slaughterhouse to where the feed and seed was, and i will relocate the turnout that leads to the natural gas plant to the middle of the track so i have room for bigger engines, i might try to add a few trees, i will be modelling fall so the leaves will be orange, red, and other colors
Sedfred, stock cars hauled a lot of stuff besides livestock. Livestock being one way traffic, the railroads used them on return trips , and other trips, to make money hauling all sorts of freight not affected by weather. Various refined oils in metal drums, lumber, and watermelons come to mind but there were plenty of other uses. I used to think that stock cars were by nature very unclean but I learned from some former MoPac employees that they were regularly inspected by veterinarians, steam cleaned very often, and quite well suited for other uses. They go all over the place on my layout even though I have no stock chutes or slaughterhouses.
Incidentally, reefers were also used all the time as boxcars for return trips and during produce out-of-season.
If you are modeling one town you should consider providing a track where cars come and go from your layout's world, like an interchange or a set out siding along a main line. I have two interchanges, that's where I swap cars on and off the layout, like they are coming and going on the MP and the Rock Island. My layout takes around 25 cars comfortably, but I have around 500, self control is not one of my virtues.
Be careful and understated with the autumn foliage. It's very easy to become garish. You see it all the time in the magazines.
i think i'll get rid of the slaughterhouse, so far the industries i know i want are the Lumberyard, flour mill, and natural gas plant, i need to think of another one but i'm stuck! i don't know what to do!
Have you considered a "Team Track" where general freight of all kinds was loaded and unloaded? Pretty much just needs a platform/loading ramp, and maybe a pillar crane.
Len
i have come up with a new track plan i think is a bit better: http://s376.photobucket.com/user/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/media/Track%20plan%20rrrryw_zpszjqnepjq.png.html?sort=3&o=0, the industry with an "f" is a flour mill, the white building opposite is a paper mill, the long red one is a winery, and the one with an "l" is a lumberyard, the track just below the paper mill is a team track, the other buildings are shops, i don't know if i should use this one or the older one, which one do you think is the best? can you give me some feedback on the newer track plan?
Independent oil dealer. Co-op warehouse. Or the team track. You do need an interchange or a set out on a main line where the cars come and go from the layout.
I'm down south so I have among my spurs a cotton warehouse and a pulpwood yard.
i decided i like the old design better, i will use it instead. i am still not sure about the name, the current one is just a suggestion someone gave me. i might rename it
Hey, you should do whatever makes you happy! :) Just keep in mind that proper functioning plays a role as well.
here is the final design: http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo210/i10dtowinthebrantfordrailfan/blahbladgrhr_zpspkbhqtwb.png, the building in the left hand corner is a team track and loading dock, and the building in the upper right hand corner is a flour mill.