Bachmann Online Forum

Discussion Boards => HO => Topic started by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 03:38:55 PM

Title: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 03:38:55 PM
hello,

I recently purchased 2 MRC mini-DCC (with speaker) steam sound decoders.

One went in my HO scale 2 truck Climax, & the other went in my 2-6-6-2 W&LE Mallet. They both sound great BUT.....

They both run about 3 inches & stop. 2 seconds go by & they jerk to life again, only to stop short. They do this at all speeds.

Someone said to fix this promblem, I must cut a capaitor off the main board. Then they pointed to the "yellow things" on the boards. What I want to know is, can someone please post an image of what exactly I'm supposed to cut off the main DCC board so that I don't screw up & cut the wrong thing? These decoders fit & sound so perfect for the locomotives. I'd hate to think I wasted money again :S

Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: jfraymondpa on November 11, 2007, 04:30:44 PM
For the Climax:

http://www.tcsdcc.com/decoderpics/Bachman%20Climax/bachman_climax.htm

-- John
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 04:45:07 PM
clipped out entirely, or just one leg?

& would that work for the 2-6-6-2 as well?

Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: SteamGene on November 11, 2007, 05:46:31 PM
You can cut one leg and bend the capacitor away, or cut it off completely.  Yes, same drill with the 2-6-6-2. BTW, cutting the capacitors does not void the warranty.
Gene
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 06:09:27 PM
so this'll stop the jerky, annoying cutting out while trying to run?

thanks,
Bob with cutters in hand, poised for cutting?
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 06:26:00 PM
feeling dumb. Do I cut C1 or C2 in the 2-6-6-2........There's a 3rd capaitor tho
connected to the red & orange wires.

Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: NWsteam on November 11, 2007, 06:50:12 PM
Sorry to get off topic...

Are you happy with your climax?  I thinking about purchasing one but I'm not sure yet.  I plan to run them on 4% grades.  What do you think?

Thanks
Brad
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 07:02:22 PM
my climax will drag an unpowered proto 2K locomotive. :)

I love it :) Getting a decoder with sound was difficult tho. TTE told me they could get a decoder, but not sound. I'll have to snag a few photos of mine with a sound decoder. Cutting out C1 fixed the stalling issue :)

Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: NWsteam on November 11, 2007, 08:57:11 PM
Why is the tender blue and not black?  Is it extremely noticeable? I know it’s prototypical but I don't know if I'm a fan.
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 10:27:43 PM
SteamGene: you said: ""You can cut one leg and bend the capacitor away, or cut it off completely.""

I cut off the one nearest the 8 pin in the climax & it runs 99% better. I had to make it think it was 128 tho in order to run a bit more like 100%.

In the 2-6-6-2, I have 3 capacitors: C1, C2 & a 3rd one with no markings avalible. The 3rd one is connected to the orange & red wires that go into the 4 pin plug to the locomotive itself. Which one do I cut?

C2 is closest to the 8 pin plug in this case.

If it helps, I can snag a photograph & post it here to better explain what I'm trying to ask.....


Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 11, 2007, 10:37:20 PM
I found a website the is installing a sound decoder into a 2-6-6-2. However, without any words they post a photo with 2 red arrows pointing towards the capacitors C1 & C2. Am I to assume that these need to be cut out?

http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/b-mann2-6-6-2/b-mann2-6-6-2.html

Thanks, & sorry to be a bother :P
Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: RAM on November 11, 2007, 11:21:48 PM
Why do they put these capacitors in if we need to cut them out?  Is this just when you install a sound decoder or any decoder?
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: SteamGene on November 12, 2007, 08:26:47 AM
The capacitors are installed because of some European thing with electricity.  They disturb some - probably most - decoders.  The decoders that Bachmann uses are not bothered by them.
Gene
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 12, 2007, 09:11:03 PM
So which do I cut:

C1?

C2?

or both?

thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: SteamGene on November 13, 2007, 08:07:55 AM
All.
Gene
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: Jim Banner on November 13, 2007, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: Zytx on November 11, 2007, 10:37:20 PM
I found a website the is installing a sound decoder into a 2-6-6-2. However, without any words they post a photo with 2 red arrows pointing towards the capacitors C1 & C2. Am I to assume that these need to be cut out?

http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/b-mann2-6-6-2/b-mann2-6-6-2.html

Thanks, & sorry to be a bother :P
Bob


Sorry, Bob, but I just stated reading this thread.  The photos are mine and yes, you do cut both capacitors.  The decoder being installed is not a sound decoder, but these capacitors have nothing to do with sound, only with motor operation.  So you can cut them out no matter what kind of decoder you are installing.  I really must get busy and finish writing the words to go with those photos!

Some decoders support CV9 which allows you to lengthen the pulses sent to the motor.  If you gradually increase CV9, you can often reach a pulse length which is immune to the effects of the capacitors.  However, your decoder may no longer be silent.  This is the approach used in Bachmann decoders to make them compatible with the capacitors and is the reason why they are sometimes (often?) noisy.
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: SteamGene on November 13, 2007, 04:20:42 PM
Speaking of things like that, has anybody installed a non-Bachmann decoder into their USRA light 2-10-2?
Gene
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: r.cprmier on November 13, 2007, 05:26:32 PM
I have found that bypassing the adaptor setup completely is working out well.  I have more room, and less hassle.  There is no protective circuitry, etc, I would need for NCE or Tsunami decoders, so out with the adapters and those blocks!!  NOW...I have room for another speaker!!

Rich
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 13, 2007, 08:18:00 PM
steamgene says : All.

including the one not pointing with an arrow?

Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: SteamGene on November 13, 2007, 08:20:14 PM
Cut all capacitors.
As Duncan says in MCBETH "All my little ones?  All did you say?"
Gene
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: Jim Banner on November 13, 2007, 09:50:10 PM
I agree with Gene - if in doubt, chop them out.  At this point in time, I do not remember what the third capacitor is for.  It might have been to keep the headlight from flickering, which is often just fine to leave in place, even with DCC.  But it won't hurt if you cut it out either.   If you look carefully at the photo to the left of the one showing the capacitors, you will see that I did the same as Rich - I chopped out the whole board, capacitors, resistors, chokes, diodes, socket and all.
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: r.cprmier on November 15, 2007, 07:17:40 PM
Yeah, I find that the simpler you go in this stuff, the better.  To me, keeping that board in-circuit is only asking for trouble, as the more stuff, the more that can go wrong.  I am no expert on decoders by any means, but  I cannot see why that board will do you any good with a fully self-supported rig like Tsunami.

My first conversion was in the tender of a 2-6-6-2, and I swore mightily; I also mightily swore I WOULD NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!  On the older proto, Atlas, etc dismals, I strip out everything, and just do a complete install as though no board ever existed.  I am a happy man!!

RIch
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: Jim Banner on November 15, 2007, 09:09:56 PM
Rich, you have to have faith.  DCC is perfect.  Nothing can ever go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong ...
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: VTBob on November 16, 2007, 10:57:08 PM
the climax runs better now altho it's still a little cranky. I'll take a video of it for my website.

The 2-6-6-2 needs alot of work tho. I get the sound, but zero motion. Will have to study the accel/decel rates & mess with the voltage stuff. But at least she now sounds like a somewaht real loco :)

I'll have links posted soon.

I wish the plug n' pray soundtraxx decoders for the 3 truck shay were still made, cause they worked flawlessly :)

http://download.lavadomefive.com/members/RDFlambouyant/model/model.html

there's the video site I have set up. I'll update it tomorrow evening with the new videos :)

Thanks y'all,
Bob
Title: Re: DCC & Cutting capictors
Post by: r.cprmier on November 17, 2007, 01:01:09 PM
Gene;
I have installed tsunami decoders and did NOT use that abortively useless device for plugging in the bypass.  Everything went-the original gut job!!  Do they work?  What y'all think??  (Note that deferrence to the South...)
Rich

2-10-2:  The Ugly Sisters.  (Got the name from the Scharnhorst and the Gneissenau)

Decoder ref. numbers, #5827, and 5828

They respond greatly.  I'se happy. (more Southern stuff...)

Rich