I am building a new layout using Bachmann's Nickel Silver E-Z track and the layout will have two reverse loops. Should I be using two 18" gap tracks within each loop and a 9" power terminal insulated gap track outside of each loop along with two E-Z Command Automatic Reverse Loop Modules [one for each loop]? Also will the E-Z Command Automatic Reverse Loop Module work with other DCC controllers should I decide to use another brand?
Both tracks coming of the turnout need BOTH rails isolated. You need a power terminal for each loop lactated within the loop. You'll also need a power terminal on the point end of each turnout as well. Any DCC auto reverser will work. make sure the loops are longer then the longest train you will run. The train has to be shorter then the distance between the gaps in the rails. DCC Specialties makes auto reversers that are electronic rather then using relays. It's the OG-AR. The relays can burn out over time. Joe
http://www.dccspecialties.com/products/onguard.htm
I'm running a DCC loop-to-loop layout, but instead of gap tracks I clipped off the four metal joiners leading into the
loop and used plastic insulating rail joiners in their place. (Which are also clipped because one side can't go over what remains of the metal joiners.)
I don't believe Bachmann makes curved gapped tracks (If that's what you meant by 18") But you COULD use a pair of 9" gap tracks within each loop if you don't want to use rerailing terminal tracks, each straight gapped track has two connecting terminals underneath them.
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=879_604_782_783&products_id=2495
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image_additional&pID=2495&pic=2&products_image_large_additional=images/HO_Scale/44597_03.jpg
You can also connect a single reverse loop module to both loops, the system won't care so long as you're only running one train. ;)
Thanks for your replies. One more issue. I am having difficulty in removing the metal rail joiners that come on the Nickel Silver E-Z tracks in order to install the plastic rail joiners. Is there any special way to remove them without damaging the rails? It almost seems like they are on there permanently yet Bachmann sells separate metal rail joiners so I presume the original ones can come off somehow.
Pliers work quite well, but you need to use a lot of force and sometimes the track gets damaged when the joiner finally gives.
I've pulled a few rails completely off the ties when removing joiners, that's why I clip them off now.
Bapguy;
Why do you say relays will 'burn out over time'? Pretty much anything has a lifespan to it. If the proper considerations are given in the design and installation of-oh, by the way, contactors-with regards to voltage, current, frequency of operation, these model railroad systems shouldn't be raising too much hell with components.
A rule in the field would be not to go below 125% of the rated ampacity of a component; same should apply in general. I have seen guys-who wired their layouts with quad cable (about #26AWG conductors) and are baffled as to why things do not run as they should. To me, if I have-say- a potential demand for-say-14 amps, I am going to use the next highest size conductors, which would be #12. But it is your money...
In a reversing application, the same rating considerations would apply.
Rich C.
Maybe burn out isn't exactly whet happens. Even though DCC voltage is low, some systems put out as much as 10Amps. When the contacts in the relay move, there could be pitting of the contacts or a build up of metal on one side. If the build up gets high enough, the contacts could be welded together. Or the solenoid gets fried. I'm going off personal experience. I had 1 Digitrax and 1 MRC relay style AR's go bad. My friend had 1 Digitrax AR go bad as well. Joe
Joe;
I as well. In a set of contacts, the line side and the load side are fixed; the movable part is a "bridge" affair that simultaneously connects both. A relay is built differently, which I why I stay away from relays, except in the control/sensing portion of a circuit. Let your contactor do the heavy lifting.
Also, in an inductive load where horsepower rating is a constant, voltage/current are inversely proportional; that is, if you have a 240V. motor load, and you can rewire for 480V; your motor current rating will half itself. This basically will work for AC and DC alike.
Therefore, if you have a 1/20 horsepower motor, it will draw about .03 Amps at 12 volts. If you halved that voltage, the current would go up by two times.
Rich C.
If I still have my AR-1 or MRC version, I may try and take it apart to see what it looks like inside the relay. If successful I will post photos. Joe
Thanks all for your replies
Quote from: a17dl on December 02, 2015, 09:25:44 PM
I am having difficulty in removing the metal rail joiners that come on the Nickel Silver E-Z tracks in order to install the plastic rail joiners.
That is not unusual and I have run into that myself. It seems that different lots of track produced vary in how hard or easy it is to remove the joiners. I have used this method:
http://s792.photobucket.com/user/NarrowmindedRR/media/20121110195709.mp4.html
...which sometimes has worked like a charm and other times, not so much. For ones that are melded in with the black ties and not easy at the onset to remove, I suggest trimming the plastic spikes where they meet the rail joiner and see if that will free the joiner up for the diagonal cutters.
Please know, you don't need to have to use Bachmann joiners. Atlas Code 100 joiners or others n/s Code 100 joiners will work fine.
Quote from: Flare on December 03, 2015, 12:14:37 AM
...sometimes the track gets damaged when the joiner finally gives. I've pulled a few rails completely off the ties when removing joiners, that's why I clip them off now.
If the rails get bent you can forget it, time to toss it. So,
Flare Gun, after you "clip them" how do you get the remaining part of the joiner off the rail?
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 03, 2015, 08:46:47 PM
If the rails get bent you can forget it, time to toss it. So, Flare Gun, after you "clip them" how do you get the remaining part of the joiner off the rail?
I don't bother, I clip off one side of the plastic insulating joiners instead. Doesn't bend or pull the rails nor damage the plastic spikes holding them in position.
Works great for my layout.
Quote from: Flare on December 04, 2015, 01:06:11 PM
I don't bother, I clip off one side of the plastic insulating joiners instead.
Quote from: Flare on December 03, 2015, 12:14:37 AM
Pliers work quite well, but you need to use a lot of force and sometimes the track gets damaged when the joiner finally gives. I've pulled a few rails completely off the ties when removing joiners, that's why I clip them off now.
Ok, you've lost me ??? Looks like in one instance you are stating your clip off the metal rail joiners instead of using pliers to keep from damaging the rails, then you reply about working on insulated rail joiners...? Help us out here.
Thanks.
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 04, 2015, 08:32:19 PM
Quote from: Flare on December 04, 2015, 01:06:11 PM
I don't bother, I clip off one side of the plastic insulating joiners instead.
Quote from: Flare on December 03, 2015, 12:14:37 AM
Pliers work quite well, but you need to use a lot of force and sometimes the track gets damaged when the joiner finally gives. I've pulled a few rails completely off the ties when removing joiners, that's why I clip them off now.
Ok, you've lost me ??? Looks like in one instance you are stating your clip off the metal rail joiners instead of using pliers to keep from damaging the rails, then you reply about working on insulated rail joiners...? Help us out here.
Thanks.
I do both: I remove the protruding part of the metal joiner and leave the rest attached to the rail. I then use a plastic joiner to ensure the two rails don't touch, cutting off one side because the plastic joiner can't go over what remains of the metal one.
I apologize for the confusion.
No apology needed, thanks for clearing it up. I get it now, so on the insulated rail side, the 2 rails are never joined, just the other side with the metal joiner is joined. I guess the EZ track snapping together, keeps the unjoined rails from getting out of alignment?
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 05, 2015, 10:40:00 AM
No apology needed, thanks for clearing it up. I get it now, so on the insulated rail side, the 2 rails are never joined, just the other side with the metal joiner is joined. I guess the EZ track snapping together, keeps the unjoined rails from getting out of alignment?
I clip and insulate both rails where a gap is needed. And yes, the E-Z track usually does a good job of keeping the rails aligned.
When two rails do happen to be a little off from each other, I use pliers to coax them closer together.
Ahh, but doesn't using the pliers run the increased risk of putting the rails outta gauge? Or have you never checked? Not to mention bunging up the rail heads with the pliers (that is also a question).
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 05, 2015, 05:27:38 PM
Ahh, but doesn't using the pliers run the increased risk of putting the rails outta gauge? Or have you never checked? Not to mention bunging up the rail heads with the pliers (that is also a question).
Yes there's a bit of risk involved, but I'm willing to try it before buying another piece of track.
So, have you ever checked w/an NMRA gauge to see if the track is still in gauge after using the pliers on the rails? And why would you have to even be considering buying a new piece of track, before using the pliers?
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 05, 2015, 07:38:02 PM
So, have you ever checked w/an NMRA gauge to see if the track is still in gauge after using the pliers on the rails? And why would you have to even be considering buying a new piece of track, before using the pliers?
I don't have one, but my trains aren't derailing either. I use the pliers correct misalignments since the joiners don't 'join' the gapped rails together, and if I overdo it and damage the rail, it was worth trying to save a few dollars on another piece with better 'luck of the draw' on alignment.
You could take a dremel and cut the rail back away from joiner and you don't have to worry about the pieces left from the joiner.
I hear what you are saying, Flare.
A NMRA gauge is a tool worth having for several reasons. I recommend it.
Hello there, old friend ;)
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 05, 2015, 07:58:51 PM
Hello there, old friend ;)
Hello Jim,Who you calling OLD?
Hello there, good friend :D
Quote from: Flare on December 05, 2015, 07:52:10 PM
...if I overdo it and damage the rail, it was worth trying to save a few dollars on another piece with better 'luck of the draw' on alignment.
Part of what I am getting at
Flare, is that you may be creating you own alignment issues by the methods you're employing.
I think
Jerry offers a good suggestion.
Quote from: Jerrys HO on December 05, 2015, 08:04:05 PM
Just checking in on ya! ;D
There's quite a bit to check in on. ;)
If you look at Bachmann's terminal rail for the reverse loop module that is all they have done except for the wiring board underneath which is not necessary if you don't mind soldering.
I like your suggestion. I am not keen on the idea of handling and bending rail ends with pliers.
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 05, 2015, 08:12:14 PM
I like your suggestion. I am not keen on the idea of handling and bending rail ends with pliers.
I just pull the joiners off, if you take a small flat blade and bend the lip of the joiner away from the rail grab it with some pliers and wiggle it it will pull right off. I did not use that for the reverse loops just some added feeder where I soldered drops to the joiners like the one's Atlas has.
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 05, 2015, 08:06:30 PM
I think Jerry offers a good suggestion.
Indeed he does. I'll give it a shot next time I redo my layout.
Quote from: Jerrys HO on December 05, 2015, 08:15:53 PM
I just pull the joiners off, if you take a small flat blade and bend the lip of the joiner away from the rail grab it with some pliers and wiggle it it will pull right off.
That's a great concept, but it doesn't always work so well (see prior/above commentary) which is why we are where we are here talking about this subject.
BTW
Jerry, it was
you who gave me permission to call you old:
Quote from: Jerrys HO on September 07, 2015, 10:50:02 AM
...only Jim has the right to call me an OLD FRIEND ;D.
Jerry