Hello,
My son and I are fairly new to model trains and we have a basic oval setup with an 18" radius running a diesel Santa Fe with freight cars which we sometimes switch out for the 4 passenger cars we also have. I would like to purchase a steam engine but I am having trouble deciding and would like a recommendation. I want a decent quality engine without breaking the bank and I am not sure if a DCC sound locomotive would be worthwhile or not or should I go for a locomotive that smokes? This setup runs around our Christmas tree.
Thanks!
Barbara
train around the Christmas tree; I love it!
I am somewhat new to rr modeling myself.....but one thought I had was to buy a locomotive that is DCC ready where you could add a DCC decoder later when you are ready to move to DCC and buy a DCC controller.
Bill
Quote from: billgiannelli on December 16, 2015, 03:36:13 PM
train around the Christmas tree; I love it!
I am somewhat new to rr modeling myself.....but one thought I had was to buy a locomotive that is DCC ready where you could add a DCC decoder later when you are ready to move to DCC and buy a DCC controller.
Bill
Seconded; DCC is expensive and meant for simplifying control of multiple trains on a large layout. Unless you plan to upgrade your tree loop to something complex, DCC equipment is unnecessary.
I would put the money toward a smoking model instead.
Since you're using 18" radius track, go with the 0-6-0 or 2-6-0 DC model. Joe
:) Thanks for the quick replies! I will look for a smoking unit then. Perhaps my son will get into a more complex layout like you describe with his more permanent N scale layout and I can enjoy the train sounds and multiple locomotives with that.
I would NOT put $$ toward a smoking model, they're messy, dirty up track and rather gimmicky. Agree with sticking with DC for what you are planning.
I would also recommend against a smoking steam locomotive as would almost all of the experienced modellers on here, for precisely the reasons that jbrock has stated. smoke for dirty track, which is the enemy of a good reliable running railroad.
I have heard that on other forums too, even from Lionel enthusiasts. Thanks for the advice. I am thinking about either the 2-8-0 or the 2-8-2. I kind of like the 4-4-0 but my son does not. I wish I had room for a 22" radius but I do not.
Barbara, another option, read all the info in E-Z App.
Ok, I will look at the E-Z App.
Do you guys have an opinion on trains with sound? I think they sound pretty cool but son doubts they sound real and isn't sure they are worth it.
Barbara- If you live in the Pittsburgh area, I suggest visiting one the model railroad club holiday open houses. The Western Pennsylvania Model RR Musuem is located in Gibsonia, near the Turnpike. They are open on Friday evenings and Saturday and Sunday afternoons. More info on their web site. The McKeesport club is located on Walnut Street in McKeesport, just east of downtown. They are open on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. More info on their Facebook site. You and your son can see what else is out there and talk with the club members about possible options. With regard to sound effects, they are best using DCC which provides a lot greater range of sound options. There are some models that are sound-equipped and will run on DC, but the sound effects are generally very limited in DC mode. Sound models are also a good deal more expensive than standard DC and you have to buy a DCC power supply system to utilize DCC.
I have one of the sound value 2-6-0 locomotives and I like it a lot. I also have a couple of the diesels, and having been around the real ones of those particular types I can tell you the models do sound just like their big brothers. I run mine on dcc and can't say for sure what sounds you'll hear on dc, but I can blow the horn and ring the bell at will.
Myself, I run DC and don't do sound. For me the extra $$ for what you get does not justify it for me. That does not mean that others do not get enjoyment out of sound, as you can see by what has been posted here. I think the idea to visit a club that has DCC running locos with sounds to get a sense of what they can sound like, is a great one. :) Be sure to ask lots of questions if you get there.
And oh, BTW, J - E - T - S! JETS!! JETS!! JETS!!
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 17, 2015, 08:15:23 PM
And oh, BTW, J - E - T - S! JETS!! JETS!! JETS!!
December swooners!! Might as well get ready - It's happening.
And (cueing up the cheesy trumpet, just like at Heinz Field): "Here we go, Steelers, Here we go!
You're of course talking about the STEELERS being swooners, right?!? :D
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 17, 2015, 08:15:23 PM
And oh, BTW, J - E - T - S! JETS!! JETS!! JETS!!
December swooners!! Might as well get ready - It's happening.
And (cueing up the cheesy trumpet, just like at Heinz Field): "Here we go, Steelers, Here we go!
*The last Steeler game I went to was actually at Three Rivers Stadium. One Charles Henry Noll was still the coach. They may have modernized their Steeler fight ditty since then. They were in fact trying to introduce a heavy metal fight song at the time; all of the Steeler fans in their right mind hated it and lit up the lines on the post game call-in show. You would have thought "Rock The House" was the name of a guy who threw six interceptions for the Steelers. Even Myron Cope threw some rocks at the idea.
And no, Brock, I'm referring to the long, sad history of the Jets, a fate unbroken since Namath played.
Well, were gonna see in the next 3 weeks or so, aren't we??
Three Rivers: sure, the Immaculate Reception (that never really was) comes to mind.... ::)
And how about that Super Bowl against the SEAHAWKS the refs gave to the STEELERS ???
Now, now! If we're to compare ignominious plays/games, a complete rundown would damage our friendship...Errrr: Dan Marino's "Fake Spike", the "Butt Fumble"...need I say more? I'll take ignominious victory over ignominious defeat any day.
If it weren't for Namath's one championship season, the only thing people would remember about Shea Stadium was that the the Beatles played there.
It's ok for you to dislike a team I like, no offense taken. I find that STEELERS fans are alot like YANKEE fans, front runners...
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 02:40:11 PM
...the only thing people would remember about Shea Stadium was that the the Beatles played there.
Not so. The '69 METS, the '86 METS
The "butt fumble" never bothered me frankly, that could happen to anyone, just happened to happen to Sanchez who I have no beef with. He was the QB in those 2 recent AFC Championship Games in Steel Town. If in Jersey, maybe a different outcome(s)...
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 02:46:32 PM
It's ok for you to dislike a team I like, no offense taken. I find that STEELERS fans are alot like YANKEE fans, front runners...
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 02:40:11 PM
...the only thing people would remember about Shea Stadium was that the the Beatles played there.
Not so. The '69 METS, the '86 METS
The "butt fumble" never bothered me frankly, that could happen to anyone, just happened to happen to Sanchez who I have no beef with. He was the QB in those 2 recent AFC Championship Games in Steel Town. If in Jersey, maybe a different outcome(s)...
Oh, I don't dislike the jets. It's not like they're the Raiders or the Cowboys. Frontrunners??? Hey, I' ben'-a fan through The Desert: Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Mark Malone, Huey Richardson, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Todd Blackledge, Cliff Stoudt, Tommy Maddox, Walter Abercrombie, Greg Hawthorne, etc.
But, back on topic; Sound, smoke, DCC, all have their place...it dpends upon usage and the target audience.
If the layout/loco are to impress small children, then sound and smoke take the cake. Hands down. If cleanup is an issue, scratch the smoke.
I went to a model railroad club open house back at thanksgiving. While I was there, one of the club members broke out the Winahhh and Undisputed Champion!!!: His one-day old Allegheny. From Somebody's Train House. Hadn't even broken it in at home yet. Put it on the rails, filled the smoke oil chamber, coupled it to a coal train and sent it on its maiden cruise... Authoritative articulated steam sound, better smoke than one might expect, and BAM!!! INSTANT STAR OF THE SHOW.
I built a layout and selected the train for my in-laws. I knew it was going to be under a desktop Christmas tree in the same room they watch TV in. So, a quiet operator - no sound, and being under the tree in a fashionable room - no smoke.
Sometimes DCC might even be the ideal control mode for small layouts. Have only one siding? You can control two trains, park one on a siding and switch 'em around without having to remove and replace, or set up power blocks.
What's best? Consider the audience and environment for the answer.
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
Hey, I' ben'-a fan through The Desert: Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Mark Malone, Huey Richardson, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Todd Blackledge, Cliff Stoudt, Tommy Maddox, Walter Abercrombie, Greg Hawthorne, etc.
What's to "woe is me" about?? Not all these guys were bums; O'Donnell took you to a Super Bowl, then was later signed by the JETS... :D
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
Sometimes DCC might even be the ideal control mode for small layouts. Have only one siding? You can control two trains, park one on a siding and switch 'em around without having to remove and replace, or set up power blocks.
I say the opposite. If that is the case (small layout/1 siding) no reason to spend the extra $$ on DCC, unless you really love, need to have, sound. Bc you can accomplish the same thing, controlling 2 trains with Common Rail DC wiring and blocks and 2 power packs/controllers.
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
Sometimes DCC might even be the ideal control mode for small layouts. Have only one siding? You can control two trains, park one on a siding and switch 'em around without having to remove and replace, or set up power blocks.
I say the opposite. If that is the case (small layout/1 siding) no reason to spend the extra $$ on DCC, unless you really love, need to have, sound. Bc you can accomplish the same thing, controlling 2 trains with Common Rail DC wiring and blocks and 2 power packs/controllers.
I'm 'siding' with
Mdaskalos on this one.
I spent the extra money for DCC because I wanted a double reverse loop layout without having to build my own relays.
The fact that I can park extra trains on a siding without needing separate controls to activate them is a bonus.
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
I'm 'siding' with Mdaskalos on this one.
It's not like it's a contest or pick up game of basketball, bro. It is just a matter of opinions and what works or doesn't work for what people want or need. The important thing is to give opinions and facts so people can make their own choices. Don't see anyone here saying their way is the only way or best way for everyone; just things to consider that some might not otherwise think about considering.
*When you say you did not want to build your own relays, do you mean wiring up a DPDT throw switch, which in DC, can get you a reverse loop?
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
I spent the extra money for DCC because I wanted a double reverse loop layout without having to build my own relays.
The fact that I can park extra trains on a siding without needing separate controls to activate them is a bonus.
FlareGun, you changing
your opinion here, bc here is what you first said here:
Quote from: Flare on December 16, 2015, 03:57:27 PM
...DCC is expensive and meant for simplifying control of multiple trains on a large layout. Unless you plan to upgrade your tree loop to something complex, DCC equipment is unnecessary.
...I'm confused ??? ???
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
I spent the extra money for DCC because I wanted a double reverse loop layout without having to build my own relays.
The fact that I can park extra trains on a siding without needing separate controls to activate them is a bonus.
FlareGun, you changing your opinion here, bc here is what you first said here:
Quote from: Flare on December 16, 2015, 03:57:27 PM
...DCC is expensive and meant for simplifying control of multiple trains on a large layout. Unless you plan to upgrade your tree loop to something complex, DCC equipment is unnecessary.
...I'm confused ??? ???
No, my opinion stands. DCC decoders and controllers are more expensive than their DC counterparts, and completely unnecessary for a loop layout that only runs one train.
So then why'd you say this following saying that:
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
Sometimes DCC might even be the ideal control mode for small layouts. Have only one siding? You can control two trains, park one on a siding and switch 'em around without having to remove and replace, or set up power blocks.
I say the opposite. If that is the case (small layout/1 siding) no reason to spend the extra $$ on DCC, unless you really love, need to have, sound. Bc you can accomplish the same thing, controlling 2 trains with Common Rail DC wiring and blocks and 2 power packs/controllers.
I'm 'siding' with Mdaskalos on this one.
I spent the extra money for DCC because I wanted a double reverse loop layout without having to build my own relays.
The fact that I can park extra trains on a siding without needing separate controls to activate them is a bonus.
???
How about the question on the DPDT switch? Was that was you meant by not wanting to build your own relay?
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 05:17:59 PM
So then why'd you say this following saying that:
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Mdaskalos on December 18, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
Sometimes DCC might even be the ideal control mode for small layouts. Have only one siding? You can control two trains, park one on a siding and switch 'em around without having to remove and replace, or set up power blocks.
I say the opposite. If that is the case (small layout/1 siding) no reason to spend the extra $$ on DCC, unless you really love, need to have, sound. Bc you can accomplish the same thing, controlling 2 trains with Common Rail DC wiring and blocks and 2 power packs/controllers.
I'm 'siding' with Mdaskalos on this one.
I spent the extra money for DCC because I wanted a double reverse loop layout without having to build my own relays.
The fact that I can park extra trains on a siding without needing separate controls to activate them is a bonus.
???
Because DC is the less expensive option when only running one train on a simple oval of track.
Quote from: jbrock27 on December 18, 2015, 05:23:21 PM
How about the question on the DPDT switch? Was that was you meant by not wanting to build your own relay?
Yes, I'm not electronically versed nor good with a soldering iron, so a pre-made module that does the same thing while allowing me to operate other trains on sidings was very appealing.
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 05:42:36 PM
Yes, I'm not electronically versed nor good with a soldering iron, so a pre-made module that does the same thing while allowing me to operate other trains on sidings was very appealing.
Ok, I get that, but not this...
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 05:40:23 PM
Because DC is the less expensive option when only running one train on a simple oval of track.
...that's hardly true. It's a less expensive option when doing a lot more than just that.
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 05:42:36 PM
Yes, I'm not electronically versed nor good with a soldering iron, so a pre-made module that does the same thing while allowing me to operate other trains on sidings was very appealing.
and yet you give others advice on how to wire a layout? just sayin......
Not so sure being that harsh was necessary and in the spirit of the season :(
Quote from: Flare on December 18, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
I'm 'siding'...
Wait a second...now I get it! LOL :D
Manulo, you proved to be prophetic! :'(
Best of luck in the playoffs :)
GO LIONS! and don't come back!
I think you got your cats mixed up and mean TIGERS, as in Clemson Tigers! The LIONS did not make the playoffs.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 05, 2016, 07:08:45 PM
I think you got your cats mixed up and mean TIGERS, as in Clemson Tigers! The LIONS did not make the playoffs.
Maybe he didn't mean playoffs at all. Maybe he simply wants them to go...and as he said, not come back.
Oh. Really?? I got the impression he was telling me to go and not come back.