Had new knees installed, this gave me some tv time, love that u tube, watching a sweet logging set up from down Maine, called alagash logging. wow if only I could find out how he changed the peco switchs to do that trick I have a dbl crossover in a tight spot and no room for switch stands. been setting that way for years now, no room from under side eather. not flexable enough to reach in eather..when I bult this layout 4'1\2x7' set up I wanted to slip one train into the inner track [good timeing] and the inner to the outer track. now that I converted to dcc using the dynmas system I think that would be the cats meow. Ive tried a few things none worked very good. I have 36 foot stock cars and 4-4-0s that work very well for me. thank you very much for any help. GRZ.
From your description I'm not sure if this is any help.
This is how I reach to out of the way Atlas and Peco switches.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss115/kengprice/Layout%20Projects/DSCN2141.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/kengprice/media/Layout%20Projects/DSCN2141.jpg.html)
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss115/kengprice/Layout%20Projects/DSCN2137.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/kengprice/media/Layout%20Projects/DSCN2137.jpg.html)
GRZ;
How did that knee operation go? I get the idea you and I are about the same age. Mine are killing me, so after this shoulder thing, they're next!
I have an idea and a lot of caboose levers; music wire from the turnout to the edge of the layout. I have been mulling that one over for a while.
In terms of recuperation, I have a bunch of South River, Bar Mills, etc.; kits to keep me in one place...and a life partner who won't take my guff.
Rich C.
whiz, I would tell you knee surgery is nothing but since my wife and I have 7 between us, I think we're just jaded or maybe used to it.
I'm thinking a switch could be operated manually with a cable, like a lawnmower cable only better sized and smoother operation. I don't know if you could get to it to do that or if it would be possible to hide that cable. You would have to have a clamp down point.
Mornin' all;
Yeah-my thoughts on it would be to have a sort of shelf-but about an inch and a half or so down from the level of the terrain. Set the mechanisms on the shelf, screw them down, through a small hole, run a piece of music wire from the mechanism to the turnout in question, and attach it so as to make the turnout move. All of this can be length of flexible plastic tube just large enough to contain the wire, and just use those little plastic straps that you slide around the tube.
I think some modifications to this apparatus-like a slide switch that can be used for powering the turnout, the aspects of a signal, etc-would also work. Hard-to-reach areas could be tackled by conventional means, like tortoise, etc.
Rich C.
first let me apologize for not giving information one could understand. there is no room to do any of the sugestions that were offerd, NO-ROOM for any of those ideas. now to find this layout in Maine, ho logging allagash new switching andover Maine. this is a wonderfull little set up. Im a dummy when it comes to confuzers ect my wife foun out how to make our T V work this u tube. boy you wont believe what you can find here. and NO-ADVERTISING ether..thank you all Grz
This appears to be the video you're all excited about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbuGSGmNWaw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbuGSGmNWaw)
I think he's using spring loaded turnouts.....either factory ones like Peco, or he's made over centering springs. All he seems to be doing is moving the point rails with his fingers. What's the mystery?
Sid
In order for the "finger flick" to work, the switches have to be spring loaded in order for them to stay in the direction they are placed. Peco switches are spring loaded to start with unless the spring has been removed so they operate with switch machines (manual or electric) as are Atlas "Snap Switches". If your switch is not spring loaded, here is a video on how to manufacture a spring to make them so. It is for N scale but should be easily adaptable for HO.
https://youtu.be/9rfZpe1LNjk
I guess that tells the story, piano wire the correct size some fooling around and finger flick switch. no mist'y just could not see what kept the points held in place. my switchs are 40 yrs old or more so no spring loading .thank you all. will let you know how I make out.Grz
Wayne;
There is something I had thought of this afternoon; those wire retainers used for holding insulation in place-you in Canada would use them to hold insulation in the basement joist system on the first floor-electric heat...
Those wires are in two lengths; 18 and 24 inch. A knob fashioned to fit on the wire and attached to the linkage-either underneath or camouflaged "on deck". It is pretty simple, and when used in conjunction with the Peco turnout, just might be the ticket.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on March 06, 2016, 03:49:36 PM
those wire retainers used for holding insulation in place-you in Canada would use them to hold insulation in the basement joist system on the first floor-electric heat...
Rich C.
They must build em different down there Rich.....lol. I can't say as I've ever seen a home up here with insulation in the basement ceiling.
Sid
Sid;
I had been my prior understanding [that houses built] in this area (New England) fired by electric heat are insulated by a different set of standards than another alternative hear source. It is also my understanding [that Canada] has a lot of hydro (hence the name; "Hydro Quebec") power, and that is, of course, a cheap alternative. The Canadians do know how to do some things better than most Americans, methinks...
In a house, in The States, that is electrically heated, the insulation is approached differently. The basement ceiling (the structure comprising the first floor and the basement ceiling, is insulated. Here is where these stays come into play.
Rich C.
Don't rates tend to go UP during winter (ice) time as well bc there is less water running into the river and over the falls, hence, less power generating ability?
Call Hydro Quebec for details.
Rich C.
Wayne;
Thanks for the 'enlightenment'. I had solar installed this past summer-and yes, it does make a big difference.
I have a couple of Atlas C-420 diesel locomotives I believe 'Canadian National' used them. If so, could you tell me where I can find the paint scheme. They look like a cross between an RS-11 and a Baldwin hood. I like them so much, I will run them with steam...
On turnout finger-flicking ( we have to be real careful saying that-being completely sober would be helpful...) I have seen several variations on the theme of mechanical controlling of turnouts. Figured I'd try it. Had some music wire (I think 5th or 6th guitar strings-heavy- would also work), so I took a section of plywood, mounted the turnout-a Peco-on it, set up some small screw-in eyes, and ran the wire to it. it worked very good. I think Linn Westcott had done an article in MR some time ago, on this subject. I will look through back issues if I have time.
Some pics of CN C420 #632 can be found here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locopicture.aspx?id=25485 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locopicture.aspx?id=25485)
Len
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on March 07, 2016, 07:36:48 AM
Call Hydro Quebec for details.
Rich C.
Why would I when: A) I'm not Canadian and B) Niagara Falls is in the province of Ontario ???
::)
Wayne;
You are right about it not being cheap. NONE of it is; this is why I got solar installed. Being an electrical contractor (no, I didn't install it-not at age 70!). Having a large expanse of roof directly facing the south, this is a shoe in. My bill is down roughly 60% since last winter (and yep; I have electric radiant heat). PV works in proportion to how much sun it is exposed to on a given day.
Electricity that is produced by convention is going to be expensive, not so much for the price of fossil or hydro, but for the personnel it takes to operate and maintain said systems.
On the subject of hydro; some time ago, I bought two Grandt line 'box-cab switchers'. These diminutive little beauties are so cool-they are HOn3; and are geared such that their momentum works by gearing. When they built the Hoover Dam during the Great Depression, they had two of these little critters running to and fro, with carloads of concrete. That must have been quite a sight-probably more intense to have operated them!
Rich C.
Quote from: doctorwayne on March 07, 2016, 01:33:10 PM
As for Niagara Falls, some of it is in the city Niagara Falls, Ontario and some in the city of Niagara Falls, New York.
Wayne
I was aware of that, but thanks
Wayne. I was just trying to make the point they weren't in
Quebec for those that are geographically challenged ;)
Speaking of Quebec, when's the next vote come up for Secession?
Quote from: doctorwayne on March 07, 2016, 10:40:56 PM
There's a bit of a buzz lately about U.S. citizens investigating the procedure for emigrating to Canada due to fears about one of your presidential wannabes.
Wayne
It's not the first time there's been that buzz around a Presidential Election. It typically ends up being just a lot more buzz (talk) than action, but gives other folks something to read and talk (laugh) about :D
Hi Wayne;
Nope; I made a deal with myself long ago (enlisting in the Air Force) that I would, upon retirement, stay here, in the lower 48, on good old terra firma, in my 'mansion on the hill', for better or worse. There are enough checks and balances in our laws to prevent someone from becoming too 'ambitious'...And, like you guys, we have had some real winners, but this is one of the reasons hard liquor was invented...
Back on track now (ha ha, a pun...)
Placement of the music wire is a concern to me, largely because in this hobby (and elsewhere...) nothing is permanent, and the simpler one makes a project, probably there will be less hassle during any pertinent change.
I am looking at keeping those wires above-board, and just keeping them covered with buildings, scenery, etc.; that is one way. Another way would be to [keep it below] board-board meaning basic surface. This would entail bending an "ell" at the turnout end of the wire, and facilitating it's movement via a hole below the turnout; this would also mean that a smaller wire had to be used.
Still another method would be to build a 'platform' below the turnout, installing a slide switch with a hole drilled through the toggle to handle a larger dia. wire. This would also serve most wiring options, depending upon the capability of the switch. All of the mechanism could be constructed at the work-bench
Rich C.
Wayne.
Nice work in the photos. Particularly impressed with the frogs set in into the grade crossings.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: doctorwayne on March 08, 2016, 11:00:45 PM
Thanks, Roger.
To create to road surface, I placed a large sheet of paper over the trackwork, then used a pencil on its side to do a "rubbing" of the rails' edges. The individual areas were then cut out and traced onto .060" sheet styrene. The between-the-rails portion of each track was traced and cut out in the same manner, then I used a set of dividers to scribe both cut edges to a distance equal to the thickness (width) of the moulded spike heads of the Atlas track, and used a utility knife to remove that material.
I then cemented .020x.080" strip styrene to the tie tops between the rails of each track, one strip butted-up against the spike heads of each rail. The trimmed portions of street were then cemented atop these strips, leaving flangeways for the trains wheels. The portions of street outside each track were cemented directly atop the spike heads - solvent-type cement works well, as the Atlas ties are styrene - and the expanses between the various tracks were cemented to the plywood layout top using contact cement. This method puts the road surface about .003" below the rail tops - helpful if you need to clean track. The roadway between tracks dips down slightly, then rises at the next track.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne.
Now I have to rip out my grade crossings and copy your method. :)
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger;
From what I have seen of your work, it is top quality workmanship, and Wayne's ideas MIGHT enhance your layout, but I'd take both layouts on parity any day!
Wayne; the idea of 'tracing' is excellent, and it does work. The only thing I had always been bothered with is the detail-work on the track itself. I got around that by sort of reversing what you have; that is, take .040" strips on the ties to be "paved" over, then lay down the finish layer. Everything is flush.
I am getting set to start laying track. A part of the concept here is using "Central Valley" turnouts on the front edge, and .070 rail. I have a mental image of this track-work, and it appears to look really good. Have you any feedback on using this product? The late Jack Parker's layout was an excellent one. A lot of his products are great, like the tie strips, as well as structure product.
Rich C.
Addendum;
Len; thank you for the feedback concerning those Century units.
Rich C.
Wayne;
Thanks for the feedback and info. I am going with 2003 and am going to try code.070. Jack had routinely mentioned a product called 'Barge Cement'. While I have never seen this stuff, from his description, I am going to assume it is a little like contact cement. Well, like they say; nothing ventured... I know that contact cement is usually let to dry-both pieces, so I will guess that is the tricky part. Two stainless bars, similar to steel guitar tone bars with grooves cut into them to match the rail-width @ CV tie strips and set into a jig, should help do the trick.
I have never built a turnout, but then again, I have never ran from a challenge (real or imagined), SO...Onwards and upwards, 'we are the navvies, etc...'
Rich C.
Barge Cement........it's more a brand name than a "type" of cement......but "contact" would be a good descriptor. Walther's GOO should do the same thing as would any other contact cement designed for the materials you plan to join.
http://www.bargeadhesive.com/products.html
Sid
Sid;
A can of Weldwood@ cost about the same as a tube of 'Goo". Not to offend; I just look at the logistics. I also have found in the past, that contact cement will attack the tie material. In a way this is good, as it sets up 'tooth' to grab the mating surface. I have a tube of 'Goo" and it does definitely have it's place-just as a bottle of ACC does.
OK; with any luck, Sunday will be THE day...
Rich C.
Quote from: AGSB on March 06, 2016, 12:48:14 PM
In order for the "finger flick" to work, the switches have to be spring loaded in order for them to stay in the direction they are placed. Peco switches are spring loaded to start with unless the spring has been removed so they operate with switch machines (manual or electric) as are Atlas "Snap Switches". If your switch is not spring loaded, here is a video on how to manufacture a spring to make them so. It is for N scale but should be easily adaptable for HO.
https://youtu.be/9rfZpe1LNjk
These springs are commonly referred to as "over-center" springs, and usually are set up to use the spring's compression to keep the points pressed against the stock rails. I've seen this done using either coil or hairpin type springs (but always with the spring in compression). Recently, I read of someone rigging his own over-center linkage that used rubber bands to provide the spring tension. Sounds like a great idea, but I don't know how he did it, since rubber bands only work in tension, not compression (still trying to figure it out). Anyone else have any ideas?
Bill in FtL
Twister;
If the switch has retained it's "detent" feature, then one can use a rod or other stiffer wire, springs attached on either side of the switch and the rod, and when pushed or pulled, the switch will be pulled into it's respective position.
Many years ago, Linn Westcott had devised a method in which a slide switch was incorporated. When the switch was moved from a remote position by means of-again-stiff wire, the slide switch would also serve as a 'detent'. Now, the slide switch business was intended for a turnout like an atlas, Shinohara, etc; with no integral means of detention.
I hope I explained myself correctly. This 'rod' system, if installed correctly, is a great way of switching remote turnouts. You probably know this, but interlocking towers sometimes used the same idea.
Rich C.
Quote from: railtwister on March 15, 2016, 10:02:43 AM
Quote from: AGSB on March 06, 2016, 12:48:14 PM
In order for the "finger flick" to work, the switches have to be spring loaded in order for them to stay in the direction they are placed. Peco switches are spring loaded to start with unless the spring has been removed so they operate with switch machines (manual or electric) as are Atlas "Snap Switches". If your switch is not spring loaded, here is a video on how to manufacture a spring to make them so. It is for N scale but should be easily adaptable for HO.
https://youtu.be/9rfZpe1LNjk
These springs are commonly referred to as "over-center" springs, and usually are set up to use the spring's compression to keep the points pressed against the stock rails. I've seen this done using either coil or hairpin type springs (but always with the spring in compression). Recently, I read of someone rigging his own over-center linkage that used rubber bands to provide the spring tension. Sounds like a great idea, but I don't know how he did it, since rubber bands only work in tension, not compression (still trying to figure it out). Anyone else have any ideas?
Bill in FtL
I've used two over centre spring designs in the past for operating my switches. I use walk around control and the only place I use switch machines is in hidden staging, where the switches are inaccessible during normal operation, the staging yard being in another room. Neither of the over centre springs required an actual spring nor rubber band, they were made from piano wire.
I'll see if I can find drawings and will most them or, if I can't find drawing, I'll make some sketches and post those.
Cheers
Roger T.
Here are the two over centre springs I use.
The one I currently use as provided by Tony Koester: -
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Miscellaneous/Switch%20Actuator%20Spring_zpscdxspcok.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Miscellaneous/Switch%20Actuator%20Spring_zpscdxspcok.jpg.html)
And the one taken from an old "Model Railroader" article: -
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Miscellaneous/Mark%207%20Turnout%20Control_zps9cpzwm7d.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Miscellaneous/Mark%207%20Turnout%20Control_zps9cpzwm7d.jpg.html)