as was mentioned in a previous thread it is possible to do this in a little larger than a 4x8 area. the images below show how it is done in scarm. minimum radius is 18r, all switches are #5. there are two areas on the plan where I used flex track, because of slight mismatches when sectional track was used. in real life, the track is more forgiving of these discrepancies than it is on a computer, so it would be possible to build this plan using only standard ez track components.
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/emdloco/gampd%2045x8%20ez_zps4coraptx.png) (http://s873.photobucket.com/user/emdloco/media/gampd%2045x8%20ez_zps4coraptx.png.html)
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/emdloco/snapshot%20gd3_zpsrotikajy.png) (http://s873.photobucket.com/user/emdloco/media/snapshot%20gd3_zpsrotikajy.png.html)
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/emdloco/snapshot%20gampd%20layout_zpsz4knyuop.png) (http://s873.photobucket.com/user/emdloco/media/snapshot%20gampd%20layout_zpsz4knyuop.png.html)
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/emdloco/snapshot%20gd2_zpsiyuljdzs.png) (http://s873.photobucket.com/user/emdloco/media/snapshot%20gd2_zpsiyuljdzs.png.html)
I'm curious as to what the cost of the layout in EZ Track would be. Do you have a part number/quantity breakdown of the layout? Can Scarm do material lists?
Sid
yes scarm can do parts lists but I can't export them in a usable format. here is what I have as a parts list:
2 44371 36" flex track
24 44501 18r 30 degree curve
8 44503 22r 22.5 degree curve
2 44509 33.25r 12 degree curve
19 44511 9" straight
2 44513 2.25" straight
6 44514 4.5" straight
3 44519 26r 18 degree curve
6 44531 18r 15 degree curve
4 44565 #5 left switch
2 44566 #5 right switch
1 44592-3 1.25" straight
2 44592-4 1.5" straight
Pieces Item # Description $ per peice Total
2 44371 36" flex track 7.960 15.92
24 44501 18r 30 degree curve 4.000 96.00
8 44503 22r 22.5 degree curve 5.250 42.00
2 44509 33.25r 12 degree curve 5.000 10.00
19 44511 9" straight 4.000 76.00
2 44513 2.25" straight 2.875 5.75
6 44514 4.5" straight 3.250 19.50
3 44519 26r 18 degree curve 5.500 16.50
6 44531 18r 15 degree curve 3.000 18.00
4 44565 #5 left switch 52.000 208.00
2 44566 #5 right switch 52.000 104.00
1 44592-3 1.25" straight 1.500 1.50
2 44592-4 1.5" straight 1.500 3.00
Total: $ 616.17 MSRP
it should also be noted that the grades on the mainline loops are 3% max, while the branch line is 4%.
Looks great......
I have purchased some ez track and have been running some old equipment on it
Just a basic oval for now but now that I have seen this I think I will actually give it the ole college try.
But as I stated in the original post I'm still negotiating the right of way from the Mrs.
Thanks,
Andy
the table is drawn as 4 1/2 feet by 8 feet, but it can be as little as 4x8, personally I would build a 4x8 table, then add an 8 foot 1x4 along the edge of the table to widen it a couple of inches.
Thanks Much appreciated
Quote from: jward on March 20, 2016, 06:50:16 PM
the table is drawn as 4 1/2 feet by 8 feet, but it can be as little as 4x8, personally I would build a 4x8 table, then add an 8 foot 1x4 along the edge of the table to widen it a couple of inches.
Much as I'm one of the "Not a fan" crowd when it come to the 4 x 8 you can buy 5 x 8 sheets of plywood if you want more width.
Cheers
Roger T.
Yes, you can buy 5' wide plywood.
Just remember, you have to have long arms to reach into the middle.
::)
Back when they were easy to find, O-Gaugers used to use 4-1/2' x 5' "Ping Pong Table" sheets to make 5x9 tables. But these days they've pretty much disappeared, and Ping Pong tables are usually masonite. You could cut down a couple of 5' x 5' sheets if you really wanted a 5x9 table. But, when you include aisles, for the space it would take, you'd do better with an 'around the room' type layout.
Len
Quote from: rogertra on March 21, 2016, 02:44:48 PM
...you can buy 5 x 8 sheets of plywood if you want more width.
Cheers
Roger T.
I know you don't care, but where can you in the U.S.? HD and Lowe's don't carry it, hardware stores will only special order it for an exorbitant cost. And please, no one tell me "Menards" as they are only found in the middle of the country (U.S.).
This subject came up several years ago and as I recall, "go get a ping pong table" or "go to Menards" were the only 2 answers, so it is not so easy... ::)
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 21, 2016, 09:38:21 PM
Quote from: rogertra on March 21, 2016, 02:44:48 PM
...you can buy 5 x 8 sheets of plywood if you want more width.
Cheers
Roger T.
I know you don't care, but where can you in the U.S.? HD and Lowe's don't carry it, hardware stores will only special order it for an exorbitant cost. And please, no one tell me "Menards" as they are only found in the middle of the country (U.S.).
Sorry I can't help you other then to suggest going to a lumber yard that tends to cater more to the construction industry than the home DIY stores like the ones you mention.
I've tried Google and it is hard to find these days. Maybe it's been discontinued?
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: rogertra on March 21, 2016, 11:08:13 PM
it is hard to find these days
Cheers
Roger T.
I thank you for underscoring my point. ;)
Quote from: jbrock27 on March 21, 2016, 09:38:21 PM
Quote from: rogertra on March 21, 2016, 02:44:48 PM
...you can buy 5 x 8 sheets of plywood if you want more width.
Cheers
Roger T.
I know you don't care, but where can you in the U.S.? HD and Lowe's don't carry it, hardware stores will only special order it for an exorbitant cost. And please, no one tell me "Menards" as they are only found in the middle of the country (U.S.).
This subject came up several years ago and as I recall, "go get a ping pong table" or "go to Menards" were the only 2 answers, so it is not so easy... ::)
which is why I suggested adding a length of 1x4 to the original 4x8 table. this plan will fit, just barely, on a 4x8 but adding a few extra inches to the front side will keep the track away from the edge. you really don't need to go 5 foot here.
that said, I have never come across anything but 4x8 sheets, or smaller cut down 4x4 or 4x2 sheets where I live. it was mentioned that ping pong tables are now Masonite, which is completely unsuitable for a baseboard for a model train layout, and much better suited for backdrops.
the way I would construct this layout makes the whole "what size plywood shoulo=d I look for" question a moot point. I piece my subroadbed together from 1x4 pine, it is a lot of cutting and fitting of pieces, but it is strong enough to walk on, and easier to spike to than plywood.
Quote from: jward on March 22, 2016, 07:14:37 AM
..........which is why I suggested adding a length of 1x4 to the original 4x8 table. this plan will fit, just barely, on a 4x8 but adding a few extra inches to the front side will keep the track away from the edge. you really don't need to go 5 foot here.
that said, I have never come across anything but 4x8 sheets, or smaller cut down 4x4 or 4x2 sheets where I live. it was mentioned that ping pong tables are now Masonite, which is completely unsuitable for a baseboard for a model train layout, and much better suited for backdrops.
the way I would construct this layout makes the whole "what size plywood shoulo=d I look for" question a moot point. I piece my subroadbed together from 1x4 pine, it is a lot of cutting and fitting of pieces, but it is strong enough to walk on, and easier to spike to than plywood.
Do you spike directly into the plywood and not into a Donnacona roadbed?
I never lay track directly onto the plywood, not even in hidden staging but always lay a Donnacona roadbed first. Every magazine article I've ever read says to use a roadbed like Donnacona and advises against laying track directly onto plywood. Firstly, Donnacona accepts spike better than plywood and secondly Donnacona absorbs noise.
But, of course, everyone is free to build their model railroad as they see fit but I would advise a beginner to use a sheet of Donnacona.
Cheers
Roger T.
I handlay my track, and since tru scale roadbed is unavailable I lay mine directly on the pine board. it's never given me more than minor problems. plywood is way too hard to spike into with the small spikes I use, and homasote has problems with dimensional stability as well as being too soft to reliably hold the rails in guage.
if tru scale roadbed were still readily available I would use it. I have seen layouts built with it that have lasted over 35 years with no problems.
any other type of roadbed may be suitable for ready made track, but it does not suit my purposes.
Jeff - I've gotten some special built frogs from these guys in the past. They appear to still carry a full line of Tru-Scale roadbed:
http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html (http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html)
Len
thanks. I had no idea it was still being made.
Quote from: jward on March 22, 2016, 06:23:34 PM
I handlay my track, and since tru scale roadbed is unavailable I lay mine directly on the pine board. it's never given me more than minor problems. plywood is way too hard to spike into , and homasote has problems with dimensional stability as well as being too soft to reliably hold the rails in guage.
Not true. Homasote is dimensional stable. More dimensionally stable than the plywood and other wood you use to build your benchwork from. After all, Homasote is both a sound proofing material and an insulation material designed for use under wallboard and flooring, so it must be stable. Visit their website. If it wasn't stable, then why do all the model comics recommend using Homasote for roadbed as do all the leading model railroaders out there? Not even the leading model railroaders but practically every modeller ever published does. They
ALL, to a man, use Homasote or Homabed.
I hand laid all the track on my now dismantled GER, including building frogs from scratch, and had absolutely zero issues with Homasote. My ties were glued to the Homasote and it's your ties that hold the rails in gauge and in place, not the Homasote. I even glue my flex track down and just use push pins to hold it in place overnight as the glue dries.
Homasote is the best material for roadbed use currently available.
Cheers
Roger T.
I'd like to thank you gentlemen for your responses and ideas.
You have given me a few things to think about and I do appreciate it.
Thanks again, I'll keep you posted if I decide to build a different layout in the future.
AS I am still negotiating the right of way with the Mrs.
Andy
interesting about the homasote......
I thought the published modellers had mostly moved on to extruded foam a long time ago. I have seen a variety of methods stated as used by modellers in print over the years, including the method I use. not everybody out there is drinking the homasote kool aid. as a matter of fact, you can see for yourself if you are so inclined. build track on homasote, build some on pine, put them in a humid and possibly minimally heated basement and see which one has swelled and warped. see which one has the track kinked at the joints due to expansion and contraction.
Quote from: jward on March 23, 2016, 04:01:13 PM
interesting about the homasote......
I thought the published modellers had mostly moved on to extruded foam a long time ago. I have seen a variety of methods stated as used by modellers in print over the years, including the method I use. not everybody out there is drinking the homasote kool aid. as a matter of fact, you can see for yourself if you are so inclined. build track on homasote, build some on pine, put them in a humid and possibly minimally heated basement and see which one has swelled and warped. see which one has the track kinked at the joints due to expansion and contraction.
Not on my model railroads. None of them and there have been several.
As for foam, I'll Never ever use it. Foam insulation is, by fire code, for use behind wallboard only. It'd not for use in exposed locations, like on a model railroad and I don't care what the model magazines say about that. Foam subroadbed, covered on one side with scenery, does not meet fire code. If that stuff catches fire, the toxic fumes it produces will kill you before the fire department reaches your house if you do not evacuate in time.
Check with your fire department. Tell them what you are using for and see what they say. My fire department said "No!"
Cheers.
Roger T.
Rogertra, I agree that foam board is normally used behind walls. I also have to say that the wood, plastic items and cloth items on our layouts and the carpet in our rooms are just as dangerous in a fire. I think that all of us should have a working smoke dectector with a fresh battery in it in the room and a in date fire extinguisher that is sized for our room.
Quote from: Penn1974 on March 24, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
Rogertra, I agree that foam board is normally used behind walls. I also have to say that the wood, plastic items and cloth items on our layouts and the carpet in our rooms are just as dangerous in a fire. I think that all of us should have a working smoke dectector with a fresh battery in it in the room and a in date fire extinguisher that is sized for our room.
The wood, cloth item you mention for use in homes ALL pass the fire code. All fabrics used in home furnishings are flame retarded.
The wood used in homes is, by it's nature, fire retarded. In other words, you can put an open flame to it for 30(?) seconds and then withdrawn the flame. The material should then self extinguish. Many clothing items, furniture fabrics, draperies, carpeting etc., all have to meet this test.
Try that with foam.
Mentioning materials used in home construction and comparing them to foam is a frequently used red herring.
I work in theatre and movie production and everything we use for sets etc., must be fire retarded.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger T.
rogertra , I am not sure where you live but your statement that all the items are fire retardant in my last post is incorrect. All items will catch fire as I have seen this in 30+ years of firefighting. Anyone who wants to put a flame to cloth , clothing and carpet and wood and think it is fire retardant will be surprised. Draperies, carpet,and rugs will catch fire. I am not saying that foam board will not catch fire but I am saying there are are many different items items that will burn when subjected to a short or flame contact. That is why I said to have a working smoke detectors and a properly size fire extinguisher in your train room.
Quote from: Penn1974 on April 01, 2016, 03:09:15 PM
rogertra , I am not sure where you live but your statement that all the items are fire retardant in my last post is incorrect. All items will catch fire as I have seen this in 30+ years of firefighting. Anyone who wants to put a flame to cloth , clothing and carpet and wood and think it is fire retardant will be surprised. Draperies, carpet,and rugs will catch fire. I am not saying that foam board will not catch fire but I am saying there are are many different items items that will burn when subjected to a short or flame contact. That is why I said to have a working smoke detectors and a properly size fire extinguisher in your train room.
I never said they wouldn't, I said they would pass the flame test which is expose the to a naked flame for 30 seconds(?) withdraw the flame and the item will either not catch fire or will self extinguish. That's the flame test. Everything will or melt, including concrete and steel. Foam doesn't pass the flame test. Expose foam to a flame and it will catch fire and not extinguish which is why it's so dangerous.
As for your suggestions regrading fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in the hobby room I agree 100% and have both in my hobby room.
Cheers
Roger T.