Hello All,
Stumbled upon a old Mantua flat car that has a bracket molded to to the top of the car that holds 3 cement pipes and I had seen them with tractors on them before.Normaly they are all plastic ,but the one I found gas a complete die cast under frame with metal trucks and axles with plastic wheels.The deck of the car is screwed to the under frame .I looked around for some proto type photos if this car even existed.Seems the cAr by its date on it and a little research was used in the 20's and 30's but never found a good prototype pic.Were these just fantasy cars with the tub type brace for the pipes or just a novelty for sales?
The metal frame and trucks look like they could be used for a good solid car kitbash just by adding metal wheel set and couplers to the frame.
If that type of flat car actually existed A little reference help would be appreciated .If not it will be the new frame for a Bachmann gondola that is waiting to be finished.
Thanks,
Johnny ???
Photo?
This is probably a similar car.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/trainman203/image_zpsc35mfkq1.jpeg) (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/trainman203/media/image_zpsc35mfkq1.jpeg.html)
It is one of two survivors from my very early model railroad days before 1966. It never actually ran back then, it was painted a horrible day glo yellow with screaming red UP lettering, I think someone with a train set gave it to me. The junk box it was in was the only survivor of 41 years of moving, a flood, and a fire. When I started up again in 2007, I opened the box and found it. Paint, decals, and better stirrups and brakewheel make it a passable model, but the most precious one too, freighted with years of memories.
is this the car?
http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/redboxerafreightcars/id14.html
I suspect it's more likely this one:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/OdMAAMXQlrxRctYC/$(KGrHqFHJE!FE3uUUq-tBRctYBftUg~~60_1.JPG)
The description on the end of the box describes it as "heavy", which would tend to indicate a die-cast frame.
Len
It looks more like the MWRR ,but the top of the deck is different for 3 large concrete pipes that are short and sit in the well of the molded framework in 1 row and not stacked.Each pipe is little over a 1 inch long with a male and female ends .I can fit all 3 together to make 1 large pipe. Their diameter is about a inch .The deck can be seen on each 1/2 in of each end of the car .The rest is the rectangular framing along with a few nub cross braces to hold the pipes separate. I was thinking about cutting that mold on plating off and fitting some polystyrene in the hole and doing exactly what was done on the MWRR car pictured.I bet that car may be from that Mantua heavy series ,but a different offering.I have seen these how you could say the light series.Thanks Everybody ;D
Johnny
The MWRR car has the die cast underframe. It means good and heavy. It also means I had to mount new coupler pockets to the underframe with Walthers Goo, you can't drill pot metal. The car came with the deck just like you see. I painted it but have yet to weather it. I replaced one broken stirrup with a scale one which really looks good, need to do the rest.
There were plenty of prototypes for 42' steel fish belly flatcars. If yours has some kind of cast on cradling for a load, in real life it would have been constructed on a plain deck on a one time basis for the load, it would not have been a specialty car. The reason something is cast on with the model is because it was a train set car. You can modify the car back to a plain deck for a project. I'd use wood scribed siding and weather it down.
The trucks are not original to the car but are the same 60s vintage as the car, die cast frames with real springs. They also were survivors from the junk box so I honored the car with veteran trucks, although the wheel sets are new.
I see it listed as a Tyco. They call it a skid flat car with culvert pipes. Mine is marked Mantua.So it has to be one of those mixed in that Tyco/Mantua history. That frame can be drilled and threads taped .They did it with the screws that hod the trucks on. You need a good sharp drill bit, a center punch of sorts.You can use a nail, works a little oil for the bit and patience and a steady hand .Also a vice or something to hold what you are drilling steady.And for me ,,my magnifiers, and really good light. I like to use a 2-56 screw and the same tap I use on my old Athearn blue box locos.They all get coupler pockets screwed on. I retired from mechanics on the full scale stuff . Old cell phone screws work well for those coupler pockets that do not have that much room above them like a deck of some kind along with some of your favorite glue.Always make it so that it can be changed out the right way if you have to for some reason or another. I have a friend that liked to run long trains 30 cars plus on his basement layout with grades .One day he noticed something odd about a few of his couplers.He used kadee # 5's, with the metal coupler and shaft.After a few to many hard stops he checked and found that his metal coupler shafts on a few cars were bent.I imagine this did not happen all at once since it was one of those coal unit trains that always stayed together which he ran a lot. My coupler pockets held up to his rough running.
What scale forces were at work there???Hope this helps as much as you helped me .
Thanks again,
Johnny Adam ;D
Model Power (now out of business) was offering new metal rolling stock as well as several of the former Mantua/Tyco steamers.
MDC Roundhouse also made metal cars, as well as Ulrich - which were prepainted kits.
While 'original' Model Power is gone, Model Rectifier Corporation (MRC) purchased the tooling and trademark rights. So you can still get 'Model Power' locos and cars, but they're actually coming from MRC.
Len
what I suspect johnny has is an old tyco/mantua skid flat from the 1960s before tyco cheapened their line. this car would have had the cast underframe and screw on talgo trucks as described. the talgos would have had a metal coupler bracket as well. this is completely different from the model power metal train cars.
What would end all of this speculation, would be for Johnny to post a picture of what he has.
From the expanded description, it sounds like one of these:
(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/osYAAOSwyjBW5fOo/s-l225.jpg)
The talgo coupler covers are riveted on, which makes converting to Kadee's a bit of a pain unless you body mount.
Len
...and until then, the speculating will obviously continue...
I didn't know that the new metal line was different than the older stuff and am glad that MRC has bought out Model Power. Once again I learn something from this board!
Back in the heyday of metal cars trains were very short because the engines couldn't pull them. I had a Penn Line consolidation with a die cst tender that could pull about 4 metal cars.
Still trying to figure out what this has to do with Bachmann products....
Quote from: Yardmaster on April 17, 2016, 10:22:57 AM
Still trying to figure out what this has to do with Bachmann products....
From the OP: "If not it will be the new frame for a Bachmann gondola that is waiting to be finished."
Len
Bit of a stretch...
Quote from: Yardmaster on April 17, 2016, 01:19:08 PM
Bit of a stretch...
Just a bit? ::) ssssstttrrreeeeetttccchhhhhhhhhhh
I see at least three others on this same page Yardy, why single out this one?
A Bachmann body was at least mentioned as a fit to the Mantua frame.
Len has the correct car.
It seems to be well made for it's time.I am trying to figure out how to remove the axles to add some metal Wheels ,but it does not look like it was made to come apart.The side frames are metal,along with the truck frame that looks like insulated from the metal frame with some plastic sandwiched in there. Anyone ever change out those plastic wheels in this type of truck?.There some type of trick ,besides bending the frame that does not look like a good option to me??
Johnny
If a way cannot be determined to remove the wheel-sets from the original trucks, how about considering removing the whole truck, mount new non talgo trucks with wheel-sets in their place and body mount a Kadee coupler box and EZ Mate Mark II or Kadee coupler?
Johnny - Those trucks were not designed to have any parts replaced. About half the time trying to spread them to replace the wheels results in a broken truck. Like jbrock said, your best bet is to replace the entire truck if you want metal wheels.
Len
Thanks for heading me in the right direction.I wonder where this tooling came from ,because the metal Mantua frame has a hole in each corner ,the same that secures the plastic Bachmann undercarriage that retains a metal weight.Funny thing the Metal Mantua under frame lines right up with those pins and the thickness is equal to the plastic and the metal weight of the Bachmann model .There are just a few straight protrusions molded at the bottom of the Bachmann gondola body that holds the weight in position .If those are removed .The Mantua frame will fit like it was made for it. Have to find some trucks for it ,either way .The Bachmann gondola looks to be the better candidate for that good frame. Appreciate all !!! ;D Even Yardy for the stretch!
Johnny