I just received my B&O Sound Value S2 today and am a bit disappointed. So far I've had very good luck with my Bachmann locos including my 9 Sound Value ones,both steam and diesel. I'd say the worst problem I've had so far is over lubrication(grease) by the factory.
Anyways my Sound Value S2 arrived direct from Bachmann today and I have to say I am disappointed. The sound files are pretty anemic compared to my steamers and RS3s. And of course the trucks are overloaded with grease as usual. But the biggest disappointments are the noisy gear/motor noise and the buzzing. The loco runs pretty well and quiet in reverse but in forward the motor/gear noise actually overpowers the sound files. That and the background buzzing. Even when the sound is muted and the loco is at a standstill the motor buzz is very loud and noticeable. So far I have cleaned the excess grease out of the trucks and gears and I am breaking the loco in at half-speed on my rolling road with the sound off...hopefully that will help but I doubt it.
Sending it back to the factory is not an option...between shipping costs and the hit from Canada Customs shipping it back to the US isn't happening....so I have to sort it...hopefully with help from you guys here
I'll start with the sound problem. Actually the S-2's sound is not bad. It just can't get out of the shell. I removed two windows, when adding a crew, and the sound volume greatly improved. You may want to try the same.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,27746.0.html
As for the buzzing, that seems to be a rare occurrence on some Bachmann locos. I had a diesel that did that. I ran it, and ran it, and ran it.... eventually is went away. I'm guessing, but I think the motor was the source of the buzzing. Although, I've heard of some folks adding a little tape between the frame and shell and that helped. Dunno, never tried it.
Regards,
Jonathan
I have has the buzzing issue with the s2 and the s4 myself that got loud after break in.They set me replacement motors and I fixed it myself. Talk to the service manager Laura Harris and explain your situation.Try to run them in for a wile as recommended by Bachmann FIRST!The speakers are weak .Replace with a sugar cube speaker 11-15 by 8mm. This solves the low volume problem and gives you great base that the decoder puts out very well.You will also hear many sounds that you did not even know were there with the stock speaker set up. These are great little switchers with a few tweaks. I have not tried Johnathan's method ,but unless you are advanced modeler .I would not recommend his method since the stock speaker cannot compete with the sugar cube at all.There is a speaker box extension behind the front headlight.Cut that off and you will have room for the sugar cube, then the rest of the speaker box can be used to direct the sound out the bottom opening in the frame ,or used to hold some weight.Remove the stock speaker from the box .Th sugar cube speaker is all you need.Agood video is on the tube about this.Check it out!
Johnny
Thanks guys. I will give the loco some more time to break in. Brokenrail...can you advise on the brand of sugarcube speaker to buy?
The buzzing does appear to come from the speaker.
Cheers
Gene
Gene,
When you press F8 (mute all sounds from decoder sound files) is buzzing eliminated or is there a different sounding buzz?
Hunt...yes thats when you can hear the buzz is when the sounds are off/muted.
Gene, buzz still there after removing shell?
Hunt...yes it was...seemed to be coming directly from the speaker as best as I could tell.
Trace one of the two wires from the speaker to its connection to the decoder. Remove plastic clip and remove one wire from decoder. Make sure the loose end is not in contact with anything. Make note were the wire is connected so you can reconnect. With a speaker wire disconnected is buzz eliminated?
Ok...its 1:20 in the morning so I'm not in shape to do that now...I'll disconnect one wire tomorrow and report back the result. Thanks hunt.
Quote from: genetk44 on May 13, 2016, 03:20:22 PM
The loco runs pretty well and quiet in reverse but in forward the motor/gear noise actually overpowers the sound files. That and the background buzzing.
Even when the sound is muted and the loco is at a standstill the motor buzz is very loud and noticeable.
BTW -- I did read the above before my first I replied.
Strange when it was said that the buzzing noise happens when sitting still .This is a new one for me with these. The noise in one direction only with these is related to the motor itself unless the drive shaft coupling attached to the worm gear is too far back on the worm shaft creating a bind in one direction.The motors in these with the larger flywheels gave me trouble with noise and were replaced with the smaller flywheel version.The new motors made some noise for a wile.It took a long break in time for them ,but they did quiet down to a smooth silent running motor.A unusual amount of time for some reason.The original motors had loose motor bushings brand new where you could move the motor shaft side to side ,feel it and see it under magnification with a drop of oil there that kind of acts like a tracer when observing the area wile the motor shaft is being moved from side to side.If this is the case the motor is defective for that issue .But a buzzing noise sitting still with the sound off needs more tests as described
Johnny
Ok...clarification.
There are two types of " noise" happening with this loco.
One is a motor/geartrain growl/grinding noise , that doesn't worry me too much...it is kind of common especially on older locos like the 70 tonner...I'll be able to sort that out in due course.
The one that bothers me more is the buzzing which seems to be electric/electronic related with the decoder or speaker or both combined and thats the one we are concerned with here. The buzzing is there with both the sound-files on and muted. Granted you really have to get your ear right up and listen really hard for it under the sound files but it is there. When the loco sounds are muted there is no mistaking it...with the throttle at speed step 1, loco not moving and the sound files muted you can hear the buzzing from 5 ft away.
So I just did as Hunt suggested and disconnected just one of the speaker wires from the decoder and the buzzing is gone with the loco standing still and moving. The lights still work and the loco moves in both directions.
The sound is muted and the loco is standing still and has a buzz sound.When you disconnect the speaker the buzz goes away. If this is the correct interpretation.You have yourself a bad sound decoder if your voltages are correct on your track.With mute on there should be no sound out of the speaker.I had a defect with a sound decoder for a alco s4.Basically the same sound decoder. Call service and ask to speak to Laura Harris the service manager and describe your concern she will give you her E-mail so you can send the proof of new purchase and if your able to fix it yourself she can help with the warranty part.I had to send my decoder in and they exchanged it for a new one that was covered under warranty.Do not solder anything or you will have troubles getting that approved for exchange.They are very good at backing up there warranty and working with you if you have your proof of purchase especially a new purchase.Hope this helps.
Johnny
You are correct...when F8 is pressed and the sound-files are muted completely there is a buzzing sound from the loco even when it is at a complete standstill...as best as I can hear it is coming from the speaker. When I disconnected just one speaker wire from the decoder the buzzing was gone and of course so were the loco sounds both at the stand-still and when the loco was moving.
So I reconnected the speaker wire and the buzzing is still there with the sounds muted and at speed-step 0
As I increase power the buzzing diminishes and by speed-step 3 it is almost gone...the grinding gear noise takes over....but it can definately be heard to decrease as power is applied and before the grinding gears get too loud.
Replace the locomotive.
I am pretty sure that grinding gear noise is from the motor.If you want to try one more thing.Go to cv 217 it is not listed and set it to zero and see if your buzz goes away.If it does there is definitely problem with the decoder when standing still.Almost forgot.Turn cv 131 to zero,but leave the sound Un-muted and see if you still have the buzz with the speaker hooked back up of course for this test.Been around the block with these switchers a few times.I finally got the bugs out of them and they are great for over a year and a half now .I completely understand your frustration.
Johnny
Quote from: Hunt on May 15, 2016, 01:05:16 PM
Replace the locomotive.
Sort of looks that way.Trying to help but,I guess Ya ;D
Replace the loco? Seems extreme at this point. I'm on the road for 2 weeks...when I get back I'll contact Bachmann and ask for a replacement decoder as per your suggestion. At least this loco is very easy to open and the decoder replacement is a simple job. After that we shall see.
Thanks for your help guys...it was appreciatted.
I normally only buy my locos from local shops and have never had a problem....I think this is my 4th loco online in 4 years and I'm batting 50%...this loco and one that was a pair that I pre-ordered from Atlas that took 13 months to get here and one was duff straight out of the box, the other was perfect.....took 6 weeks to get it back from warranty repair.
The 4 th loco was a Bachmann RS3 via Micro-Mark that was perfect.
genetk44,
A damaged speaker has not been eliminated as being the cause of the buzzing.
Quote from: Hunt on May 15, 2016, 02:47:57 PM
genetk44,
A damaged speaker has not been eliminated as being the cause of the buzzing.
Agreed...so I'm considering a sugar-cube speaker replacement as somebody suggested on another forum yesterday.
Quote from: brokenrail on May 15, 2016, 01:09:32 PM
I am pretty sure that grinding gear noise is from the motor.If you want to try one more thing.Go to cv 217 it is not listed and set it to zero and see if your buzz goes away.If it does there is definitely problem with the decoder when standing still.Almost forgot.Turn cv 131 to zero,but leave the sound Un-muted and see if you still have the buzz with the speaker hooked back up of course for this test.Been around the block with these switchers a few times.I finally got the bugs out of them and they are great for over a year and a half now .I completely understand your frustration.
Johnny
BINGO!!!!! And we have a winner!!!!!
Ok...first I switched CV217 to 0 and exited the programming mode....buzzing gone!
Then went and switched CV 131 to 0 .....buzzing and sound files gone even when hitting F8 to turn sound on.
Then switched CV 131 back to its original setting...sounf files back as per normal but buzzing is still gone.
So I'm leaving CV 217 set to zero.
Thank you Johnny!!!!
Btw...what exactly is CV 217 ???
Ok...found it...apparently it is a master to turn BEMF on or off. 0=off. 2= on. Apparently 2 is the default.
No winner! You will have poor locomotive performance with CV 217 set to 0.
Quote from: Hunt on May 15, 2016, 04:32:56 PM
No winner! You will have poor locomotive performance with CV 217 set to 0.
In what way? A quick test...it seemed to be running fine?
genetk44,
Reset the decoder. Run using address 3.
Does buzzing from speaker return?
Resetting the sound decoder CVs to their factory default value is a two-step procedure.
1) Program CV 8 with 8 (can use either Service Mode or Operations Mode programming)
2) Cycle power to the decoder by turning power to the track off and back on
After about six-seconds upon restoring power the headlight and backup light will blink simultaneously 16 times indicating that the CVs were successfully reset. However, if sound or lights come on immediately upon restoring power, the decoder did not successfully reset. Repeat the two-step procedure.
Ok Hunt...I did the factory reset as per the instructions...the buzzing returned when I muted the sound.
Several problems with your locomotive, one of them is a defective decoder.
Knowledgeable SoundTraxx and Bachmann folks do not comment on the purpose of CV 217 (thus it is undocumented) so neither will I, other than to say the factory default value should not be changed. If you feel your locomotive performs fine with CV 217 = 0 and there is no interference with control of other DCC locomotives; then, use that setting until the decoder or better yet the locomotive can be replaced.
Ok thanks Hunt. Since I'm on the road for the next 18 days not much I can do until I return. I only have a 6 ft long switching layout so I can't do a long run,I'm limited that way. When I get back home I'll run. The lloco with cv217 at 0 and see how it behaves with other locos on the layout. I'll also see if I can get another decoder from Bachmann.
I'm reluctant to send it back because doing so from Canada requires various customs documentation, postage charges plus this loco cost me quite a bit with the currency exchange and customs duty....unless Bachmann is willing to waive any kind of return/restocking charges a replacement loco gets very expensive, especially if I get hit by Canada customs again.
These are all reasons I normally prefer to buy locally from my local hobby-shop.
cv 217 turns off the bemf.My dda40x sound value just started to make the same type of noise.That is how I sort of knew that it may work.The DD has many ,many hours on it and runs ok ,but no longer a silent runner with it muted.Almost sounds like Bachmann dcc onboard locos.With this problem along with the grinding.It should be replaced.Turning cv 217 to zero is just for test purpose and does not fix anything.It just confirmed that there is a problem in the bemf motor control circuitry causing a noise that should not be there in a sound value diesel as far as i know since i myself have many.
Johnny
Quote from: genetk44 on May 15, 2016, 06:45:22 PM
Ok thanks Hunt. Since I'm on the road for the next 18 days not much I can do until I return. I only have a 6 ft long switching layout so I can't do a long run,I'm limited that way. When I get back home I'll run. The lloco with cv217 at 0 and see how it behaves with other locos on the layout. I'll also see if I can get another decoder from Bachmann.
I'm reluctant to send it back because doing so from Canada requires various customs documentation, postage charges plus this loco cost me quite a bit with the currency exchange and customs duty....unless Bachmann is willing to waive any kind of return/restocking charges a replacement loco gets very expensive, especially if I get hit by Canada customs again.
These are all reasons I normally prefer to buy locally from my local hobby-shop.
1) Buying a loco from the USA does not result in custom's charges.
2) Customs paper work takes seconds to fill out, you do it at the post office.
3) When ordering from the USA, ALWAYS insist on the seller sending USPS. Why anyone wants to use a courier for models I don't know. Surely you can wait a week for a model?
4) When ordering from the USA, if the order is under something like $200, Canada Post usually does not collect the GST. Canada post charges $6.00 for brokerage fees Vs something like $50 to $60 if you use one of the American courier services.
5) Using Canada post to the USA is cheap, maybe $10 at most.
6) On the customs declaration to the USA write "Returning for warranty work" and put the value of the locomotive.
7) Be aware, that no matter what you write on the covering note to Bachmann asking them to send back a custom painted and detailed locomotive, they will just grab a new one from the shelves and send that back to you. You will not get back the same loco. I've been bitten twice after send them custom painted and detailed engines and just getting some random loco back from stock.
8) Ask Bachmann to write onto the USA customs form, "Returning after warranty work". That way you will avoid any GST but may still have to pay the $6.00 brokerage fee.
Shipping to and from the USA is not complicated. I purchase most of my locos from the USA as they are way cheaper than in Canada, though I must admit I usually purchase a minimum of two at a time as the cost for shipping two are about the same as shipping one.
Cheers
Roger T.
Thank you for all that Roger. Just so you know..it took 10 days for my loco to arrive from Bachman and Canada Customs did hit me for duty on it. And I wouldn't be asking for some custom loco.
Quote from: brokenrail on May 15, 2016, 07:37:34 PM
. . .
My dda40x sound value . . .
Johnny
An Aside >>>
Johnny,
Keep in mind, the Sound Value decoder factory installed in a HO scale Bachmann DD40AX has a different feature set than other decoders in the SoundTraxx OEM Bachmann Sound Value family of decoders.
Quote from: genetk44 on May 15, 2016, 10:09:24 PM
Thank you for all that Roger. Just so you know..it took 10 days for my loco to arrive from Bachman and Canada Customs did hit me for duty on it. And I wouldn't be asking for some custom loco.
The North American Free Trade Agreement says there's no duty and in addition, it was coming back from repairs, which again is duty fee as any duty, if it was applicable, had already been paid. Are you sure it was duty and not some other charge, like $6.00 brokerage fee? I've never been charged duty when importing from the USA since NAFTA came into being and I've imported dozens of model railroad items from the USA in that time and only a few times have I been charged GST (provincial sales tax is not applicable) and that's when the total has been in excess of $200.00.
Really, I suggest you look into it as an item being returned after warranty work should also be tax free.
Cheers
Roger T.
Ok..you seem to be confused. This loco, the S2 is brand new,it has not gone back for repair. It is the one that got hit with duty.
Quote from: genetk44 on May 16, 2016, 10:21:07 PM
Ok..you seem to be confused. This loco, the S2 is brand new,it has not gone back for repair. It is the one that got hit with duty.
Still no duty according to NAFTA rules.
Are you sure it was duty and not GST and the Canada Post $6.00 brokerage fee?
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: Hunt on May 16, 2016, 12:30:02 AM
Quote from: brokenrail on May 15, 2016, 07:37:34 PM
. . .
My dda40x sound value . . .
Johnny
DDA40X or DD40AX ?
An Aside >>>
Johnny,
Keep in mind, the Sound Value decoder factory installed in a HO scale Bachmann DD40AX has a different feature set than other decoders in the SoundTraxx OEM Bachmann Sound Value family of decoders.
An Aside >>>
Quote from: brokenrail on May 17, 2016, 12:00:25 AM
DDA40X or DD40AX ?
The records of the builder EMD (Electro Motive Division) and the records of Union Pacific Railroad refer to the locomotive as
DDA40X.
Bachmann Trains labels its model of the locomotive
DD40AX.
Quote from: rogertra on May 16, 2016, 11:14:19 PM
Quote from: genetk44 on May 16, 2016, 10:21:07 PM
Ok..you seem to be confused. This loco, the S2 is brand new,it has not gone back for repair. It is the one that got hit with duty.
Still no duty according to NAFTA rules.
Are you sure it was duty and not GST and the Canada Post $6.00 brokerage fee?
Cheers
Roger T.
I'll double check when I return home in 3 weeks.
So....got home this past Friday night after being on the road for 3 weeks.
Spent some time the past few days working on this S2.....I decided to reset all CVs back to factory settings and start over on solving the various noise problems. I know a couple of you felt that my changeing CV217 was a mistake so it too was reset to factory default.
First thing I did after doing the factory reset was to remove the cab and cut-off the 2 yellow resistors and give it another hour of break-in running in each direction followed by a thorough cleaning and lubricating of the drive-train and bearings.....this has definately gotten rid of almost all the grinding/growling noise that the loco came with...oiling the worm gear and motor bearings seems to have been the really big help here.
The humming that was really driving me nuts and which led me to turning-off the BEMF via CV217 has also disappeared...I suspect but am not sure, that removing the 2 yellow resistors might have solved that. problem.
I next reset some of the CVs to try and improve the slow-speed running and smoothness of the loco......this was done using numbers suggested by a fellow on another forum. It seems to have improved both things quite a bit.
So all in allI'm much happier with this loco now than I was a few weeks ago.
Thanks for the help and suggestions guys.
Cheers
Gene
Resistors, capacitators whatever...you knew what I was talking about ;D
Yeah...the loco has gotten alot quieter and now sounds better. I'd love to know what was causing the hum though.
Hunt...thanks for the link to the sugar cubes.