I tried to find a drawing, but the link (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/G824X-2.PDF) results in a page not found.)
So, it turns out the three truch Shay with DCC sound I bought over a year ago is finally going to arrive, but without the DCC or sound.
Three questions:
(1) Is the wiring in the non DCC shay identical to the one I ordered? Will a Tunami just plug in?
(2) What is the Bachman part number for the Tsunami?
(3) Will it b easy to install? In particular. If I have somone unbox the loco and set it on the rails for me,. will it be posible to remove whatever cover and gain access to the connections without removing the loco from the rails. I ask, because I will need to hire somone to do the install if the loco needs to be rolled over, or build some sort of jig to clamp onto the loco to rotate it if I'm to avoid breaking off all the detailed parts.
1) Yes
2) They do not sell Soundtraxx items separately.
3) Has to be as easy to install as it was to remove.
Less than 15 minutes, and that included removing loco from the box.
Thanks, TOC
I don't plan to put a Tsunami card in the shay, just the Bachmann board that mine is missing. As I understand it, there is no Soundtrax Tsunami board for a LS shay, so the Bachmann board (with Tsunami technology) will have to do. That is the part number I'm looking for. Could not find that on the web either. I suppose the shay will come with a printed parts list, but I wanted to get one on order as soon as possible as the shay will be here (supposedly) next week.
Bob
I will repeat.
Part of the OEM agreement, or so I have been told by several sources, is that Bachmann is not a Soundtraxx dealer.
This is why they were factory installed.
There is no part number.
There are no parts.
All components, data, materials supplied under OEM contract to Bachmann, and none remain at Soundtraxx.
When mine died, Soundtraxx did not even know how to connect it for testing.
They had no procedures for repairing it.
It went to landfill.
Quote from: Curmudgeon on November 22, 2007, 08:16:20 PM
1) Yes
2) They do not sell Soundtraxx items separately.
3) Has to be as easy to install as it was to remove.
Less than 15 minutes, and that included removing loco from the box.
Just for the record, Bob, I did not say Tsunami.
The Bachmann board was built FOR Bachmann BY Soundtraxx (hence the fifth word in item 2).
Make sure you do the wiring shipalt as linked in the GR Review article to keep the locomotive itself functioning up to the full potential.
And, thank-you for choosing Bachmann.
Quote from: Curmudgeon on November 22, 2007, 09:14:39 PM
...Part of the OEM agreement, or so I have been told by several sources, is that Bachmann is not a Soundtraxx dealer.
This is why they were factory installed.
...
OK, so the board is OEM'ed from Soundtraxx.
And the motors are from Mabuchi
and the lights are from GE
and the connectors are from AMP
and the gears are from china.
SO WHAT?
I got the loco from a Bachmann dealer.
I paid CASH for it a year ago, Including over a hundred dollars extra for the version with the sound.
It is a Bachmann product, the loco, the motors, the sound, the lights.
All with a lifetime warranty.
Now, It is supposed to arrive next week, but without the sound.
I did not get a refund. I paid for sound and DCC, I would not even have bought the loco at all if it did not have sound and DCC.
I'm sure Bachmann must have a supply of returned locos that the get parts for to repair these things.
Now, I realize, that Bachmann did not sell me one with sound, the dealer did.
I realize that the dealer MAY have gotten the wrong locos from Bachmann or maybe they ORDERED the wrong locos. I don't know who's fault it was!
So, I would not expect Bachmann to provide free repairs to my loco for something that MAY not have been their fault.
However, I PAID for a loco with sound, the sound does not work. The loco is therefore defective. Since I have a defective loco I would like parts to repair it or I would like to send the loco to Bachmann for repair. If Bachmann decided the parts are not covered under warranty, then fine, I will pay for the sound card a second time. That is just the way it is, sometimes the manufacturer determines the repairs are not covered and the user has to pay. Fine.
The fact is, I paid for sound, don't you think that I should get a loco with sound? Don't you think that if it came with sound and it burned out, that I should be able to have it repaired. What in the world would Soundtraxx care? Does the OEM agreement say that Bachmann can't repair their own locos? I don't think so.
I pre-ordered a K27. Is it going to come without a motor. Or light bulbs, or tender. where does this nonsense end?
Let me get this straight.
The thread is titled: "How to add DCC and sound to the three truck shay."
And, I feel your pain.
However, if you PAID for a Quasinami, then the issue is with your dealer.
However, if you simply paid a hundred bucks MORE for the non-sound unit, well, PT Barnum must be smiling.
Either way, it isn't Bachmann's problem.
They, as of the last voice communication, will not install a Quasinami in a non-Quasinami equipped loco.
As of the same call, they do not have parts.
As in NONE.
Since they have no parts, they cannot install one unless they gut a new loco, making it unsalable.
By the same token, since they have no parts, they couldn't accidentally sell you one.
Now, maybe that has changed, but I doubt it.
Please inform the general populace of your success rate on this.
And, thank-you for choosing Bachmann.
Quote from: Curmudgeon on November 22, 2007, 11:26:27 PM
Let me get this straight.
The thread is titled: "How to add DCC and sound to the three truck shay."
And, I feel your pain.
However, if you PAID for a Quasinami, then the issue is with your dealer.
However, if you simply paid a hundred bucks MORE for the non-sound unit, well, PT Barnum must be smiling.
To keep the record straight.
I Purchased a 82699 Spectrum 55Ton 3-Truck Shay w/DCC & Sound, Unlettered. for the same price as West Side Lumber co #4. I paid $120.00 MORE for the shay than any of the other shays, which come without sound. My receipt shows the price and the part number and specifically says BACH 82699 Unlettered three truck Shay w/DCC & Sound. I could have gotten any of four other three truck shays from the same dealer for $120.00 less without sound or DCC. I did not want one of those.
As to who's fault it is, that is not important to me. The dealer claims they got the wrong shays and that the shay I ordered is not available. That is good enough for me.
One of three things will happen.
(1) Bachmann will say they may have sent the wrong shays to the dealer and find a sound card and send it to me at no charge. Possibly, they may, as you say have a DCC equipped shay and swap it with mine, that way they would have a salable loco.
(2) Bachmann will say they are not responsible and that the dealer made a mistake and find a card and sell it to me.
(3) Bachmann will say one or the other but, as you say, they do not have a replacement card or replacement loco so can't help me at all. In which case, I will need to buy some other sound card and decoder. SUCH IS LIFE.
Regardless, I will, as the subject of this post states, need to know if the wiring is in place, and how to do the job. The three truck Shay WILL have DCC and sound one way or the other. It's not like there aren't plenty of other choices out there for decoders and sound cards. As long as I don't have to tear the whole thing apart and re wire the trucks, fabricate parts, drill all sorts of holes, and then try to reassemble the darn thing, I'm happy. Sometimes you discover you paid more than you could have had you only known... but that is something you chalk up to experience.
As long as I get a Shay that runs good, looks good and sounds good, I'm happy, even if it cost me a little more than I COULD have paid if this was a perfect world.
Bob.
I do wish to thank you for enlightening the LS hobbyist to exactly how this entire dcc push is creating more issues than it is solving.
The 3-truck Shay has the 8th version (maybe seventh) of interfaces by Bachmann in LS, all of them different.
And, now, because a few demand plug-and-play, we will get another.
The 3-truck Shay has 4 screw terminals for track and motor.
There is a plug header (can't rcall....6 or 7 or 8 pin) you unplug from the Bachmann board and plug into the Quasinami.
Someone more versed than I in these says that is one companies protocol.
So, if you have a non-quasinami-equipped Shay, the plug is there, you move 4 wires, screw the board down (with standoffs) and you're set.
Now all you will need to do is find an available board with the same "protocol" and put it in.
Now, stranger things have happened, but, when Soundtraxx was done with the OEM production, basically everything went in a box and went to Bachmann.
Two months later, Bachmann had no parts or boards.
The guess is that Soundtraxx did not build more and ship them, as they were at that point done.
One other item that is very odd.
You said:
"I Purchased a 82699 Spectrum 55Ton 3-Truck Shay w/DCC & Sound, Unlettered. for the same price as West Side Lumber co #4. I paid $120.00 MORE for the shay than any of the other shays, which come without sound. My receipt shows the price and the part number and specifically says BACH 82699 Unlettered three truck Shay w/DCC & Sound. I could have gotten any of four other three truck shays from the same dealer for $120.00 less without sound or DCC. I did not want one of those."
Yet, the Product page on these very forums says:
"Scale, Category: Large Scale - Steam Locomotives
Item No.: 82699
Name: DCC Sound-Equipped 55 Ton Three-Truck Shay
Roadname: Painted Unlettered - Black with Red & White Trim "
Therefore, I would bet you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I would guess the Shay you get will be on-board dcc/sound equippped.
So, instead of letting the sky fall, let's see what happens when it arrives.
1) Not going to happen as they don't have spare parts.
2) I am assuming that it is the dealer selling you the card, which might happen, but I doupt. If it is Bachmann, then it won't happen as they don't have spare parts.
3) Is the most likly to happen.
If you have the receipt, then go back to the dealer and tell them you want the correct locomotive.
Quote from: Snoq. Pass RR on November 23, 2007, 12:56:47 AM
If you have the receipt, then go back to the dealer and tell them you want the correct locomotive.
That conversation is over. the DCC sound locos are not available. it was this one or none at all.
And, I suspect you are right, the third choice is the most likely, however, if it was Bachmann that sent the wrong locos to the dealer, I figure I should at least call Bachmann and give them an opportunity to correct the problem if they can. Maybe they can direct me to someone who has one with sound and wants to swap if I pay the difference. I guess that could wait until the loco actually arrives. In the mean time, I may as well order another 2K2. If I don't need it for the Shay, I can always use it in the K27. I just hope I'm not still on this forum a year from now trying to find out where my Kay is.
Well, if you want to talk Kays, look n the product pages on this website.
You will see they have now list.....THE K-27, #464:
Scale, Category: Large Scale - Steam Locomotives
Item No.: 83094
Name: K-27 Steam Locomotive
Roadname: Rio GrandeTM #464
and no others.
So, what does that mean?
Hmmm.
Quote from: Curmudgeon on November 23, 2007, 01:49:27 AM
Well, if you want to talk Kays, look n the product pages on this website.
You will see they have now list.....THE K-27, #464:
Scale, Category: Large Scale - Steam Locomotives
Item No.: 83094
Name: K-27 Steam Locomotive
Roadname: Rio GrandeTM #464
and no others.
So, what does that mean?
Hmmm.
Well, with my luck, it probably means the one I ordered:
BAC83098 Spectrum 2-8-2 K-27 (1:20.3 Scale), Black with Green Boiler Unlettered
will come with a red boiler and flashing LED's down the side and arrive December 25th 2020. ::)
Quote from: Curmudgeon on November 23, 2007, 12:47:44 AM
...One other item that is very odd.
You said:
"I Purchased a 82699 Spectrum 55Ton 3-Truck Shay w/DCC & Sound, Unlettered. for the same price as West Side Lumber co #4. I paid $120.00 MORE for the shay than any of the other shays, which come without sound. My receipt shows the price and the part number and specifically says BACH 82699 Unlettered three truck Shay w/DCC & Sound. I could have gotten any of four other three truck shays from the same dealer for $120.00 less without sound or DCC. I did not want one of those."
Yet, the Product page on these very forums says:
"Scale, Category: Large Scale - Steam Locomotives
Item No.: 82699
Name: DCC Sound-Equipped 55 Ton Three-Truck Shay
Roadname: Painted Unlettered - Black with Red & White Trim "
Therefore, I would bet you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I would guess the Shay you get will be on-board dcc/sound equippped.
So, instead of letting the sky fall, let's see what happens when it arrives.
The sky has fallen
IT GOT HERE TODAY
Yep. I ordered an 82
699 WITH DCC and Sound
I got a 82
499 NO DCC and sound.. NADA, NONE.
Opened it up and checked. no speaker, no sound card.
Now, going by the included drawings I can see tis is going to be a challenge.
First question... What are the two long
blue wires coming up out of the floor of the fuel bunker. They are not connected to anything, they are about a foot long, have no connector, have not been tinned or striped. There is no mention of them on either the DCC or DC Wiring Connection drawing. (G824X-IS007 or 8)
Those are the Top Secret Ames SUSI Train Bus wires.
DO NOT TOUCH THEM!
Actually, they are the chuff wires.
And, it's "old, standard, technology".
You don't have to concern yourself with any particular common.
OK, Thanks TOC
So those have no voltage on them, just go to dry contacts. Great! I assume it creates six interuptions per revolution of the drive shaft?
Now, what is the "two terminal screw connector", J3 for?
Terminal J3-6 has a white wire in it , J3-5 has nothing in it. There is no indication as to what this does on either drawing. It is shown the same on both drawings and matches the loco. It looks like an "option jumper", move the white wire from 6 to 5 to accomplish something. But what?
I connected an ohm meter to the two blue wires. I disconnected the drive shaft from the front truck so I could rotate the drive chain.
Obviously, the blue wires are not chuff triggers, because they only close three times per revolution. Chuff contacts would close 6 times per revolution. They may have someting to go with determining the speed of the loco with some cards but are totally useless for generating a chuff.
Good Lord, Bob.
"Obviously, the blue wires are not chuff triggers, because they only close three times per revolution. Chuff contacts would close 6 times per revolution. "
If they close when you turn the shaft, they are EXACTLY chuff contacts!
ALL Bachmann Shays, since day one, serial number one, have exactly three (maximum) chuff per revolution.
That said, some folks decided to put a different set of contacts on the drive to get 6 per.
BIG problem is NOBODY runs at prototypical speed. At the speed everyone runs these, you might as well have a noise-maker out of an Anniversary with the contacts tied together.
All you'll hear is a roar.
Make your own or live with it.
Those ARE the chuff contacts!
At least the chuff contacts work in the Shays.
They don't at all in the Climax and not very well in the Heisler.
Earlier I said:
Quote from: bobgrosh on November 29, 2007, 10:54:05 PM
... Now, what is the "two terminal screw connector", J3 for?
Terminal J3-6 has a white wire in it , J3-5 has nothing in it. There is no indication as to what this does on either drawing. It is shown the same on both drawings and matches the loco. It looks like an "option jumper", move the white wire from 6 to 5 to accomplish something. But what?
Upon further investigation, I found that removing the white wire from J3-6 will remove the power from the smoke generator WITHOUT REMOVING POWER FROM THE CAB LIGHT!
Also, connecting the white wire to a decoder function output allows independent control of the smoke via a button on the handheld. The brown wire will control the cab light and the white wire will control the smoke. (Side note: I set a qualifier for the white wire function so it only comes on when the loco is moving so the generator will not run dry while sitting on a siding should I forget to turn it off via the front switch. This really means I no longer have to bother with the smokebox door at all. Just leave the switch on and forget it.)
Great job Bachmann, but why is this handy feature a secret?
Now, what does the screw terminal next to it (J3-5) do?
You're just doing this the hard way, Bob.
You go through all of this, and one of them surface-mount components will fry and you'll be up at 0230 trying to draw a schematic.
We just rip the boards out.
I use Sierra for flicker driver, pitch the smoke (just imagine billing your time hourly to a custopmer trying to get the smoke to work), and add what we want, and never have to worry about secret jumpers.
On the three-truck, I mount Sierra, throttle, trigger board all in the fuel bunker, batteries and speaker in water bunker, and just pitch the rest.
Probably right.
Read my smoke post.
So I need 12 volts for the smoke.
and a resistor will do for the cab light.
So, the regulator is not needed.
Don't know what all those big capacitors are for, but without a regulator, well, they are potential land fill. I assume that when I disconnect the wires and plug to install the Tsunami, all that stuff is disconnected completely. (got to check that)
Diodes, What are all those for? Two would do for the directional lights. Four of them were to supply DC constant polarity the regulator. So, they are potential land fill.
The board stays, it has all those wires from the trucks and the plug to the tender. And besides, IT HAS SCREW TERMINALS for the track and motor. but, if they did this board like Aristo, it will be nude when I'm done with it.