Hi, all;
now that I have (finally!!) decided that the track configuration/layout plot/circa/total reason for living-work is nigh, I have looked at several types of road-bed, and am going to try cork. Cork??? Been around a long time. Sure, but I have never tried to use just flooring underlay! I have studied the applications, obstacles, etc; and have called it good. Has anyone else used this system? I will be using contact cement (the flammable "stoner" type) because of the quick contact/immovable feature. My sub is pretty smooth, so I do not anticipate "telegraphing" any imperfections upward to the actual track. I would like to get some feedback. Thanks!
Rich C.
Rich,
I used cork roadbed and was very happy with it. Also used some EZ track when I had the opportunity to use it. The vast majority is cork, though.
I like your contact cement idea. I used white glue or tacked down the cork with small brads--smaller than HO track nails. Both worked well for me.
Regards,
Jonathan
Cork roadbed is a long-used classic. Are plenty of articles how to use it in print and on the web, that is a good thing.
To help it not show under ballast, before laying track I paint cork with acrylic craft paint about same color as ballast will be. Sometimes I even paint the cork on both sides before installing it. Why? I dunno, it just seemed like the thing to do.
Aleen's Tacky craft white glue works fine for me for securing cork.
Since secondary tracks often have lower roadbed profile in real life, on HO layout I'll sometimes use the thinner N gauge cork roadbed for those tracks. Remember, though, that some track length will be needed for sloped elevation change. For that transition a mix of sand the HO and shim the N is used.
The "standard" cork roadbed from your LHS is split down the middle at an angle for two reasons. First, when you separate the pieces the angle will form the sloped edge of the roadbed. Second, the width of each piece is such that they will curve easily without kinking. The usual method is to put down one piece on the track centerline (glue or small nails) then the other. Cork works well if you are using flex track or snap track. Most folks again use small nails through the ties (there are usually holes spaced out for this purpose) into the subroadbed. Note that cork does not hold spikes or nails well. You can also tack the track down temporarily and then apply ballast with wet water and glue or matte medium. When the glue dries, you can pull out the nails and the ballast/glue will hold the track in place.
Quote from: ebtnut on May 16, 2016, 12:58:51 PM
...cork does not hold spikes or nails well.
I beg to differ on this. I have had no issues using spikes set in place with needle nose pliers through the track, to hold the track to the cork roadbed. Extra holes for spikes can also be made in the plastic ties using a small bit and pin vise.
For a variety of reason, the surface of the cork will often have 'ripples' after it's glued in place, which can affect track laying. So after you get the cork glued down, wrap some 400 grit sandpaper around a piece of 2x4, or a sanding blcok, and sand the top of the cork smooth and level. Then vacumn up the worst of the cork dust and go over the cork with a 'tack cloth' (available at most hardware stores if you don't want to make your own) to get whatever the vacumn missed.
Len
Good suggestion that I second. Sometimes there will be a little ridge (height difference) between the 2 halves of cork once glued down. BTW, cheap, dollar store white glue has worked well for me to secure cork to foam.
In addition, be sure to sand the edges, where it begins to slope, round/smooth as well to take that sharp edge off between the top and slope. This will help when trying to get ballast to uniformly adhere to all surfaces of the cork.
Four hundred-grit seems a little too fine for the first run at uniformity. You might try starting with 150-grit, and graduating up to about three hundred. This will take down the bumps in pretty short order-most of the time. I would think that a little care and fore thought will pay off in big dividends later on down the road. Also, use closed-grit sanding material. This gives a better job, less work.
One thing I have discovered via woodworking is that-and I assume the same to be true of cork as wood-to give the finished product a coat or two of sanding sealer-like shellac. cheap, dries fast, and leaves you alone. It also provides a uniform surface for whatever glue you want to use on ballast.
Per Brock: I forgot where I got them from-Atlas comes to mind-but I picked up a bunch of fine brads, long enough wo that, if you wanted to run them down through the cork and into the wood, you can. You can use a good nail punch for this purpose.
Track-work is all too often the chief culprit in the case of bad-running equipment. I don't think you can ever be too careful with this stuff. Check, re-check, and double-check!
Rich C.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 17, 2016, 03:14:17 PM
...use a good nail punch for this purpose.
Rich C.
I advise caution on using a punch in conjunction with a hammer as it can easily result in creating a dip in the tie/track and distorting the rails in that spot, by exerting too much downward force.
I also suggest that sanding the cork, is not like making a piece of furniture or wood-shop project, it does not take much time or effort or a variety of sand paper grits.
Jim;
There are several types of nail punches; the ones to which I refer have cupped heads-similar to that of the head of a finishing nail. If you get a large enough one, then that should pretty much eliminate the hazard of this operation; as long as you don't get over-zealous with the hammer (which should not be anything over 13 oz.), and that the nail can seat itself comfortably up into the centre of the punch.
As I had afore-stated, make certain of the positioning, square-ness, smooth-ness, etc of that run of track. Be rigid in your standards. Remember, track-work is probably the most important consideration of layout building... OR, as the inscrutable Chinese used to say BC (before college); "No tick-ee, no laun-lee!"
Rich C.
Better paint the cork with a sealer before ballasting or weeding-up. Otherwise you will lean the hard way, like I did, that cork swells with moisture - that is why it is used to close and seal wine bottles.
I failed to seal the sheet cork under a yard. The track finally worked perfectly after months of tweaking and I happily ballasted away. Overnight, the cork swelled and humped up 1/4 " in some places, max heartbreak city when that happened. It did not go back down when dry.
I didn't have to tear up the track, thought at first I would, but I must have sunk 250 or more 3/4 " screws 1/4" apart to get the yard level again. Nowadays, I seal AND screw down the cork, though not 1/4" apart. Never going through "that" again.
Trainman;
(See my previous post)... Shellac is a great sealer...
ANYTIME you are working with porous material-of which cork product happens to fall in that family-and ESPECIALLY if you are planning to torture said cork with various and sundry watery compounds, you should thoroughly seal it. BEFORE you ballast, etc; it, unless you like perpetual labour, like to put out an endless amount of dinero, or are even a masochist. And you are quite right-paint will work-but shellac is-oh sooo much easier...
Rich C.
Rich, I actually used both shellac and some kind of 1 hr. Drying water based sealer on newly installed cork, but before the track went down, AFTER I nearly destroyed a yard that took months to get every engine to like it. Sealing AND screwing down periodically worked very well.
I missed your statement about sealant Rich, sorry. The point is doubly made to seal cork roadbed unless you can guarantee that, when ballasting, King Kong will hold it down while it dries. Another time I tried to seal cork in one place after the track was down but before ballasting, with mixed results.
So take a pleasure trip to the hardware store, spend a couple of bucks on sealer, seal the cork, then lay the track and ballast it worry free.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 18, 2016, 09:01:35 AM
There are several types of nail punches; the ones to which I refer have cupped heads-similar to that of the head of a finishing nail.
Rich C.
I for one, am very familiar with nail punches, having several different varieties and sizes and have used them for other things. If you are suggesting using an appropriately sized one to push down by hand power on a rail spike or nail, that is one thing, but if you are suggesting use a hammer with one on a rail spike or nail, then I am not in favor of or recommending that. *Keep in mind, I am coming from the perspective that it is NOT necessary to go through the cork and INTO wood in order to hold the track it place. As I mentioned earlier, spike into cork has worked fine for me.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 18, 2016, 09:01:35 AM
...Chinese used to say BC (before college); "No tick-ee, no laun-lee!"
Love this saying; have used it many times myself. ;)
Quote from: Trainman203 on May 18, 2016, 11:26:48 AM
Better paint the cork with a sealer before ballasting or weeding-up.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 18, 2016, 11:42:46 AM
ESPECIALLY if you are planning to torture said cork with various and sundry watery compounds, you should thoroughly seal it. BEFORE you ballast, etc;
Rich C.
Never have heard or read of this recommendation, ever, before. ???
Jim;
It is only something I do-I have done this on any cabinet work; it works. for me.. Shellac works as a sealer; it works for me, I am happy with it. I have used it on cork, and it makes me happy. It works...for me. If you would want to use coal tar, I would be just as happy for you. Same with nail sets. the one feature of this feature is that it saves fingers. If you want to hold that small a nail with your fingers, that is OK with me-seriously.. A nailset is something I recommend-only as a bit of experience in that it has worked. for me. If you don't want to use it, that is fine. If you don't want to use a nail set to maybe make work easier, that is fine as well. In short, it is your layout, cork, and choice. The same with anyone else in the world. I offered a remedy-it is not the answer to the ailments of the world; It is only my choice, my money, and my saved fingers.
Kindest regards;
Rich C.
Addendum;
Per sanding the cork: Working with wood as in another hobby, I had experience with cork, as well as other similar material in the sealing/contact-cementing dept; so to the table I bring this little ditty.
I will add to this by saying that it is imperative that the sub-road-bed be damned near perfect. smoothness and uniformity are your best friends here; a lack of which will certainly be your worst nightmare. the longer the sanding block, the fresher the paper, the much less worse for the wear you shall be. Think of it as a jack, or a fore plane; these tools are fairly long; the idea is to offer stability to the run-or pass.. a long sanding block will do pretty much the same thing. Oh-and do keep the dust out from collecting in between the paper and the surface. As Jim mentioned, cork is pretty soft, so it won't take much effort to achieve mucho success; keep an eye on what you are doing and you should be just fine.
The other thing I wanted to refine is that, if properly applied, contact cement-the really good and woozey and smelly stuff-will act like a stable base for your roadbed to rest upon; it won't move, or easily deteriorate. Good Luck!
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 18, 2016, 03:34:48 PM
...nail sets. the one feature of this feature is that it saves fingers. If you want to hold that small a nail with your fingers, that is OK with me-seriously..
Kindest regards;
Rich C.
..but I won't be, as I already said I use track spikes and needle nose pliers, as that works...for me ;). So no need for you to be concerned about my fingers, but very kind of you.
For a guy who started this Thread looking for recommendations, you sure seem to be doling out plenty. Sure you needed any recommendations?
Good morning, Jim;
I would not be so inclined. If I think I might have an idea to make something go easier, I would be so inclined to say something. What the other person does with that info is their call-not mine. I don't really need a pat on the back, capeche?
Rich C.
Hi!
My friend Magnus has this simple mathod to ballast model Railroad / Railway tracks in a Three step method.
Excellent and realistic result!
Link to YouTube ->
https://youtu.be/E8yVSMDhvY0 (https://youtu.be/E8yVSMDhvY0)
Thanks for the video (and the other one you just posted about window making).
You made the comment in the video about the foam road bed costing much less than cork. Perhaps that is the case where you are in Sweden, but here in Murica, the cost is comparable to cork road bed sold by the box by Midwest-you get 3X as much Midwest cord road bed for about 3X the cost of the foam, so...
One further comment on laying out cork road bed; be sure to stagger your joints. When laying the first half of one section down, make sure you don't lay the 2nd section next to it, even with it. Instead lay it 1/2"-3/4"less or more, so the 2 sections are not perfectly even in length with each other.
Hi Martin;
I have read your tutorials with interest, and per ballasting track-work, I'd like to tell you about Central Valley's tie system. A long while ago, the late Jack Parker decided to produce this product; it consists soley of a tie strip with a common system of attachment, letting the user change from straight, to curve, etc. per needed. I have used it pretty much on the viewing areas of what is going to be my layout. I mention it especially because you can very easily paint/dry brush/spray colours you desire. Once this dries, you can secure it to whatever roadbed you prefer, ballast it and then install rail. It will take from code 55, 70, 75, 81, and 83. He recommended not using it with code 100. I especially like the fastening system for the rails; both track and turnouts.
I like how this is all coming out, the big feature to me, is ballasting-and just how simple it is going. If you haven't heard of it, check it out at their website; centralvalley.com.
Rich C.
Aside from the cost difference between foam and cork jbrock mentioned, there is also the difference in 'compressability' between the two. I had an unfortunate incident with a Y6b on a friends layout that used foam roadbed. Going into a curve the foam compressed unevenly under the weight of the locomotive, causing it to roll off the outside of the curve and derail a fairly long train. At first we weren't sure what happened, so ran the loco through again by itself, and you could see the foam 'squish' under it's weight just before it tipped off the track again. I've never had that happen with cork roadbed.
Len
Len;
I wonder if that would happen on a super-elevated curve? Depending upon material type, that Mallet could be pretty weighty. For your sake, I do hope it didn't go down "the big hill"...
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 22, 2016, 07:08:34 AM
Len;
I wonder if that would happen on a super-elevated curve? Depending upon material type, that Mallet could be pretty weighty. For your sake, I do hope it didn't go down "the big hill"...
Rich C.
No, it just rolled onto the scenary to the outside of the track. My suspicion is it would have rolled to the inside if the track had been super-elevated, which would have put the weight on the inside rail.
Len
Well, I certainly hope they had liability...
Rich C.
to the electrical whiz kid - Well put. If I want to make ballast out of ground up auto carpets then good for me. Cork has been around a long time and I bet that you could find many articles on cork road bed. There are lots of ways to prep it and use it.
In the past I have used thinned Elmers yellow glue, artist's matte medium and old paint. I think that, regardless of the fastening method, sealing is a must.
The same applies to using homasote - it shrinks and swells and should be sealed.
I used to hand lay my own track. I had a home made jig for tie spacing and would put down about two feet of pre-stained wood ties onto the sealed roadbed. Then I spiked in the rail. The wood cross ties held the spikes very nicely.
Anyway - it's a hobby and nothing is written in stone (especially train prices) so try some methods and find the one you like.
Quote from: Woody Elmore on May 24, 2016, 05:32:50 PM
Cork has been around a long time...I think that, regardless of the fastening method, sealing is a must.
...nothing is written in stone...so try some methods and find the one you like.
I am all for trying different methods or approaches to find something that one likes or works for them
Professor, but it is another matter, since as you said, nothing is written in stone, to advise that sealing cork is a must before ballasting. You 3 (
Richie,
TM203 and yourself) are the only ones I have come across on planet earth, who have ever said anything about
having to seal cork in any fashion, before ballasting. That includes any of the Kalmbach books that
Rich is so fond of suggesting that people read and/or obtain.
Now, if you can tell me what is wrong with Harvey, that would be something ;)
Jim;
I'm going out chasing girls; you do your cork...your way... Have fun.
Rich C
Quote from: Woody Elmore on May 24, 2016, 05:32:50 PM
The same applies to using homasote - it shrinks and swells and should be sealed.
No. Homasote is really stable. If you are having problems with track buckling etc., then the issue is with : -
1) Track with no expansion joints.
2) Benchwork expanding and contracting.
3) Poorly laid track.
It will not be with the Homasote. The stability of Homasote has been mentioned many, many times in the hobby magazines and it's available on the manufacturer's website.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 24, 2016, 09:03:17 PM
Jim;
I'm going out chasing girls; you do your cork...your way... Have fun.
Rich C
Awful late at night for an old timer like yourself for that, isn't it?
I am having fun, thanks.
PS Was there a reason why you took up that much space in your post?
Quote from: rogertra on May 24, 2016, 10:18:02 PM
Quote from: Woody Elmore on May 24, 2016, 05:32:50 PM
The same applies to using homasote - it shrinks and swells and should be sealed.
No. Homasote is really stable. If you are having problems with track buckling etc., then the issue is with : -
1) Track with no expansion joints.
2) Benchwork expanding and contracting.
3) Poorly laid track.
It will not be with the Homasote. The stability of Homasote has been mentioned many, many times in the hobby magazines and it's available on the manufacturer's website.
Cheers
Roger T.
woody is right and the magazines are bs. I suppose that if you are building a layout in the laboratory conditions that model railroader has homasote would be as stable as anything else. but most of us don't have the time or money to invest thousands into a train room before we ever lay track. in the real world, where temperature and humidity can be a problem homasote comes up short. I have seen the buckling problems first hand, and the swelling as well. they are real. a while back when I inherited my grandfather's 1950-1960s era layout I tried to relay the track on the existing homasote, after I had sealed it with latex paint. I replaced the old brass, fibre tie flextrack with new handlaid track. knowing homasote did not hold spikes well enough to work, I used pc board ties with the rails soldered to them every 1 1/2 inches. I would up having a lot of problems with track buckling, especially in one area where the layout butted up against an outside wall. the track would actually buckle enough to break the solder bonds with the ties. I methodically went back section by section and replaced the homasote with white pine planking, and the problem went away. the conditions in the layout room remained the same, the only thing that changed was the replacement of the homasote.
for this reason, I will never use homasote on a layout again. regardless of manufacturers and model railroader hype homasote is not suitable for layout use in areas of high humidity and temperature variations.
After a while you figure out where the magazines are pontificating.... like "switches" being called "turnouts"...... When was the last time you heard a train crew say "got a lot of 'turnouting' in the next town." :o :D
Quote from: jward on May 28, 2016, 09:51:29 AM
the magazines are bs.
Speaking of 'real world' and of magazine "bs", I have read in many publications, such as magazines and books "avoid S curves!!" You yourself and others on here have echoed the same warning. Yet, the more time goes on, the more people I come across that have S curves on their layouts and report no running or backing up problems. This includes 22"R curves and 6 axle diesels and passenger cars. So...(and that does not mean I would not avoid them or that I would promote having them, but...)
Have anything to add Re: cork road bed?
I used EZ track on most of my mainline and passing tracks because, as I've discussed before, I wanted a layout up and running fast, and I did it within 3 or 4 days.
But I did use sheet cork and cork roadbed under yards and some spurs and found 1) it must be very, very well secured to the underlayment and 2) it must be sealed. Otherwise you will watch the track visibly hump up while scenicking with ballast or weeds.
One thing about EZ track is that the molded ballast is 3/32" higher than the cork product. I thought I'd like the realistic slope down into lesser trackage, but it proved to be annoying when using delayed-uncoupling with free rolling cars. Physics on thr prototype do not translate well into the model railroad world..... with car weight/momentum, smoke, etc.
I do have an unavoidable S curve in one place. If I'd used flex track instead of EZ track it would have been less pronounced. Operationally it is no prob, but it just looks wrong. It's behind some buildings when normally viewed so that helps.
Quote from: Trainman203 on May 28, 2016, 10:57:12 AM
After a while you figure out where the magazines are pontificating.... like "switches" being called "turnouts"...... When was the last time you heard a train crew say "got a lot of 'turnouting' in the next town." :o :D
I agree. When was the last time you heard a railroader and I mean the guys who actually run the trains and maintain the track and not those guys who wear a suit and work in an airconditioned office, call a switch a "turnout"?
Answer? Never!
Cheers
Roger T.
Thanks TM. Just to be clear, my question was for Mr. Ward-it's why I led off with quoting him. ;)
Ok. Forgive me. I am old(er) and not so good at how forums work. Ie did not know for a long time that CAPS MEAN YELLING. :o :D
No need to beg forgiveness my friend :). Just wanted the record to be clear ;).
Well it is more like in Nextville we have 4 setouts and two pickups.
I wish I could understand half of what you say (post). ???
Jeffrey and others;
There is a product I once saw in MR called 'Micore'. This material is supposed to look like homasote, but that is the last I had seen of Micore. I asked around lumber yards, got a funny look. There had been several methods and lots of different materials approached since I started playing with choo-choos, for my opinion, that "phantom line" by Gar Graves a number of years ago was tops. It was pricey but good. The school called Culver Military Academy in Culver Indiana, had a layout-and this is the stuff I believe they used. I had the privilege of seeing it in 1967.
Rich C.
Woodland Scenics (I think) makes some kind of rubberized roadbed. Gonna try that stuff on the next layout.
Yes they do. There have been posts about it on this Thread previously (as well as a multitude of other Threads and in other places). It is more on the squishy side than cork. I would not suggest it over cork. This is just my preference and opinion, obviously.
How about rubberized sheets for the yard, they make that, don't they? Wouldn't the glue and ballast make it stiff in the end?
Don't know since I don't use it. But for Yards, I have seen folks use full, wide sheets off a cork roll as a road bed under several yard tracks.
I did the cork sheet under a 2' x 8' yard with no fasten down and no sealing. Ballasted in one night and it looked beautiful. The next day it had humped up every 3 or 4 inches about 1/2" high. I must have put down 100 or more 3/4" wood screws to get it back down. Then had to ballast over the screw heads.
Was able to save the yard, but needed extra just-for-men for all the more than usual gray hairs it gave me.
Broken record: fasten down/ seal (scratch-skip) fasten down/ seal (repeat - repeat. - repeat....... Etc etc etc.)
Quote from: Trainman203 on May 28, 2016, 08:47:31 PM
How about rubberized sheets for the yard, they make that, don't they? Wouldn't the glue and ballast make it stiff in the end?
when I was in N scale I used the woodland scenic roadbed which was some sort of vinyl I believe, and spongy as well. I had no operating problems traceable to roadbed. adding ballast and glue did minimize the spongy effect so that may have had something to do with it.
for jb, in answer to your comments, I do not use cork roadbed as I handlay my track. I find that having something solid underneath the ties like pine helps the spikes grip better. my first choice for roadbed would be tru scale, but if I were using prefab track I might use cork.
the s curve problem is real. derailments do occur when the ability of the couplers to swing is exceeded by the offset of the car ends on an s curve. the formula john Armstrong proposed of using a straight between the curves of at least the length of your longest car is a rule of thumb. it will eliminate the derailment problem altogether. that said, the derailments are much more likely to occur the sharper the curve. you can for example, get away with coming out of an 18r curve into a 36r one of the opposite direction provided you keep car lengths shorter than the length of a 4 axle diesel. but an s curve of 18r without the section of straight track between the curves is asking for trouble. this problem becomes more acute as train lengths and weights increase. a long heavy train will try to stringline on these s curves even if the cars would otherwise pass through with no problems.
it is much easier to design a layout to eliminate the problem before it starts, than it is to fix it after it becomes a problem.
Thank you for your reply Jeff.
This fella, apparently has no issues with S curves, running passenger cars and 6 axle diesels, as alluded to earlier. I am sure there are others like him out there with similar experiences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuFjV7tm8eA
All that said, I repeat, I would not promote having them and would avoid having them if possible. Just wanted to point out not everything written is, well, gospel, as you pointed out earlier.
looking through his videos I could not find a passenger train or 6 axle diesel, but I did find a video of him running an rs3 and 50 foot cars through that rather wicked s curve. you can clearly see the offset between car ends, a they nd it looks like anything longer with body mount couplers would definitely derail. he is pushing the limits there. I did notice he mentioned having a bowser unit, probably a 6 axle alco/mlw, that was too big for the layout/
most passenger cars I've seen have talgo mounted couplers, or some sort of bracket that allows them extra swing. if that is true then they would probably run through there.
if you've noticed, many of the layouts in the older plan books, or sold as train sets, do not eliminate the s curves. if you were using talgo cars and engines they would probably work, but the use of higher quality cars and locomotives undoubtedly caused problems.
and yes, not everything written is gospel. even some of the nmra standards can be fudged. I often cut down tunnel portals so they just clear my tallest cars, giving then probably a quarter inch less height than the nmra guage. it gives the tight clearance effect that many places in the east once had. and it is prototypical as well, ns has 3 mainlines through the city of Pittsburgh for example but only one can handle autoracks because of clearance issues on the other lines.
even the s curve thing can be fudged somewhat. when designing a layout in anyrail, I will only put 9" of straight between curves, even though I might intend to run longer locomotives through that curve. the wider the radius the less straight is needed. the whole point is to keep the offset between cars to a manageable level that doesn't exceed the ability of the couplers to swing.
Quote from: jward on May 29, 2016, 09:31:04 AM
looking through his videos I could not find a passenger train or 6 axle diesel
You did not look well enough; it is in his comments. As I said earlier, he reports there are no issues.
Quote from: jward on May 29, 2016, 09:31:04 AM
if you've noticed, many of the layouts in the older plan books, or sold as train sets, do not eliminate the s curves.
Yes, I have noticed. Anytime a "Thors Train Plan" comes up, you aptly point out they often contain S Curves.
Myself, no more talgos. Everything either is body mounted, converted or in the process of being converted. I am done with Transition cars as well.
Re: NMRA weight. On board with you there. If I am within .25 to .33 of an ounce of the standard, I am happy :D
Have a great Memorial Day! :)
REF: Large sheets of cork.
Jim; yep; those wider sheets are pretty handy for yardage, etc. I am not comfortable with the idea of rubber sheeting-you can find it from any roofing materials distributor-probably from years of trapesing around rooftops working on wiring for HVAC applications, etc. Slick in the winter, hot as hell in the summer. You can't win...
Cork is really a snap to use-it doesn't creep on you when you are working with it. That membrane stuff is about 1/16th" thick. I would think that you would have to build it up in layers. The only thing about cork is that it does dry out over time, and that may present a problem down the line. Gluing cork sheets? I would still use something like "weldwood" contact cement in securing it; not a tube adhesive-they have their place in other situations, like laying out individual trackwork.
Rich C.
[quote author=jward link=topic=32167.msg238610#msg238610 date=1464528664
even the s curve thing can be fudged somewhat. when designing a layout in anyrail, I will only put 9" of straight between curves, even though I might intend to run longer locomotives through that curve. the wider the radius the less straight is needed. the whole point is to keep the offset between cars to a manageable level that doesn't exceed the ability of the couplers to swing.
[/quote]
If I have 'S' curves, which I generally try to avoid except entering passing sidings, I do the same trick. A one passenger car length straight placed between the curves especially as I run scale length passenger cars. But also keep in mind, my minimum visible track radius is 36 inch or thereabouts but in staging I'll go down to 30" with no 'S' curves. On passing sidings, I use No. 6 switches with a broad radius curve into the straight so again, that 'S' curve has never been an issue. Even on industrial track, I'll try to get at least a three to four inch straight between the curves. After all, on main tracks even the prototype avoid 'S' curves with no straight in between them as that's just bad engineering.
Cheers
Roger T.
I have never had any issues with Homasote. My layout has been been stable for almost 20 years. What I have had issues with in the past is the benchwork lumber. In my experience, the wood you buy at your typical big box home improvement store has been aged for about 20 minutes before being shipped to the store. Some of the stuff has turned into airplane propellers by the time it arrives. One should probably buy up most of the wood stock you need for your benchwork and let it sit in the layout room for a month or longer to let it season in your environment.
EB;
Additionally, Try to use quarter-sawn lumber. Most hardwoods come in that particular cut; especially firsts and seconds. I had always used pine, but was dissatisfied with it-and the tendency for soft-woods to keep "working" until it is sealed by paint, shellac, etc. A spray can of "Kilz" works good, as well.
Any of the "whitewoods" such as poplar, tulip wood, cotton wood, etc., will work.
Unless you are going to a specialty house, quarter-sawn pine will be virtually non-existent.
Also, if you don't know this, make sure that you pilot-drill your screw-holes-heck, plan the thing out before you do it!
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 02, 2016, 02:35:05 PM
EB;
Additionally, Try to use quarter-sawn lumber. Most hardwoods come in that particular cut; especially firsts and seconds. I had always used pine, but was dissatisfied with it-and the tendency for soft-woods to keep "working" until it is sealed by paint, shellac, etc. A spray can of "Kilz" works good, as well.
Any of the "whitewoods" such as poplar, tulip wood, cotton wood, etc., will work.
Unless you are going to a specialty house, quarter-sawn pine will be virtually non-existent.
Also, if you don't know this, make sure that you pilot-drill your screw-holes-heck, plan the thing out before you do it!
Rich C.
This time around, other than the legs, I used rejected 3/4" cabinet grade plywood for all my benchwork as recommended by Tony Koester (name dropper me). :-)
Rejected just means there are flaws in the finish that make unsuitable for cabinetry work, it's still an excellent, soundly manufactured and flat plywood, not bowed like G1S or construction grade ply and costs just a little more the 3/4" G1S.
I had the woodshop saw it into 4" O/C strips to give 3/4" x (all most) 4" x 8' pieces for open frame benchwork.
Using open frame benchwork means you actually use very little plywood to construct your benchwork. Just wto 8' x 4' side stringers and cross pieces every 16" cut to the width you require and you then use suitable lengths of 4" wide plywood to support your roadbed to the hight you require.
No need to paint nor seal cabinet grade ply.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger;
If you live in areas like the humid south (not up north, like us hardy souls...) I would strongly recommend a sealer on that plywood. Most cabinet grade plywood is put together with glue that tends to turn to glop come apart in a moist environment. I am not sure why they don't use aliphatic (well, maybe by now they do) resin glue (maybe they are afraid of it...) but to my knowledge they do not.
That idea is a great one, however, on it's own merit. You are right about that AC grade ply. It is a royal pain.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 02, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
Roger;
If you live in areas like the humid south (not up north, like us hardy souls...) I would strongly recommend a sealer on that plywood. Most cabinet grade plywood is put together with glue that tends to turn to glop come apart in a moist environment. I am not sure why they don't use aliphatic (well, maybe by now they do) resin glue (maybe they are afraid of it...) but to my knowledge they do not.
That idea is a great one, however, on it's own merit. You are right about that AC grade ply. It is a royal pain.
Rich C.
I'll take your word regarding living in the humid south. :)
Another Hard Soul.
Roger T.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 02, 2016, 02:35:05 PM
...such as poplar,...
I hate poplar trees >:( Some of the most useless trees found on God's green Earth! Nice to learn that actually have some usefulness.
Roger;
I spent some time in SEA-before the standard issue was boots with canvas (or whatever that was ) uppers. Standard leather boots, given the rigors of what combat troops (I wasn't) had to do, boots practically rotted right off their feet. A lot of guys started wearing sneakers.
Anyway,
Humidity does come into play, even here, in the lower fifty, and if not properly sealed and finished, wood can really deteriorate in that kind of environ-and I am referring to hardwoods like poplar, cottonwood, oak, etc. Yellow pine holds up, given it's make-up. it is hard to work with, though.
OK, enough of all of that. The last word is that it is the modeller's cash, time, and sweat; hence, their choice.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 03, 2016, 08:19:23 AM
Roger;
I spent some time in SEA-before the standard issue was boots with canvas (or whatever that was ) uppers. Standard leather boots, given the rigors of what combat troops (I wasn't) had to do, boots practically rotted right off their feet. A lot of guys started wearing sneakers.
Anyway,
Humidity does come into play, even here, in the lower fifty, and if not properly sealed and finished, wood can really deteriorate in that kind of environ-and I am referring to hardwoods like poplar, cottonwood, oak, etc. Yellow pine holds up, given it's make-up. it is hard to work with, though.
OK, enough of all of that. The last word is that it is the modeller's cash, time, and sweat; hence, their choice.
Rich C.
Rich.
I don't doubt any of that Rich.
I'm lucky, I live on Vancouver Island where the humidity is fairly stable all year round. It rains a lot in the winter, joys of living in a rain forest and is fairly dry during the summer but with low humidity, unlike 'back east' and in the lower 48. Highs of 30C (86F) are comfortable. When I lived in Montreal, lows could get down to -40C, that's also -40F and little humidity, we had humidifiers on the furnace for us in the winter to keep the house from drying out due to the need to have the heat on for hours during the day. Yet in the summer, the outside temperature get up to near 40C or low hundreds but around 90F is more common. Humidity in the summer is around around 90%
And yes, it really all comes down to what the modeller can afford.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 03, 2016, 08:19:23 AM
...here, in the lower fifty...
Rich C.
50, 48, whose counting right? :D
Yeah-right...
Rich C.
Hey Roger, down here in Louisiana the humidity is fairly constant too ...... 120 percent!!!!!!! Oh man! HAWHAWHAWHAWHAW!!!!!!! :o :D
Quote from: Trainman203 on June 09, 2016, 06:48:42 PM
Hey Roger, down here in Louisiana the humidity is fairly constant too ...... 120 percent!!!!!!! Oh man! HAWHAWHAWHAWHAW!!!!!!! :o :D
I do NOT envy you. :)
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger, you WILL in January when our average temperature is a sunny 55!!!!!!!! And no snow ! Ever!
Quote from: Trainman203 on June 09, 2016, 11:39:05 PM
Roger, you WILL in January when our average temperature is a sunny 55!!!!!!!! And no snow ! Ever!
Actually, on Vancouver Island we get very little snow and average temperatures in January are overnight low of 2C/36F and a typical high of 7C/44F but it does rain a lot and we sometimes get snow. I live 30 minutes from Victoria and at around 700 feet so we are a little colder and whereas we may get snow, Victoria won't.
We also haven't had any trains since March 19, 2011, though the tracks are still in place and they've been rambling about restoring a passenger train ever since.
Cheers
Roger T.
I couldn't live in a place with no trains. 20 or so a day pass within 100 feet of my back door, and probably another 50-60 a day pass within a mile of me. this is modern railroading at its finest.
Quote from: jward on June 10, 2016, 06:25:12 PM
...trains. 20 or so a day pass within 100 feet of my back door...
I don't envy YOU.
When there is still track there is hope.
I agree with jward . I was raised in Chicago and live down the tracks from the Illinois Railroad Museum in Union , Illinois . The Union Pacific Line ( former CNW) runs across the street . I find it sort of familiar & comforting . J2.
I'd no more want an active rail line 100 feet from my home, than I would want a Highway 100 feet from my home. Trains are close enough by, I can hear them, and derailments when they happen and not too far away that if I wanted to train spot I could, without them shaking my morning coffee ;)