I'm going to be attempting my first modification soon, and I want it to be done right.
The mod will be shortening an On30 gondola into a 'shorty' flatcar roughly 2 inches in length.
My current plan is to remove the walls and middle section then join the two ends together; Simple enough, but I don't know which cutting tool I should use nor which bonding agent will work best to marry the two ends together when I'm done.
Also, it would help to know which brand and color of paint most accurately matches the black plastic Bachmann uses.
You may hope to get more play to the question, having it over in the On30 section of the Board. Good luck!
Quote from: jbrock27 on May 30, 2016, 09:18:46 AM
You may hope to get more play to the question, having it over in the On30 section of the Board. Good luck!
Wouldn't the tools and adhesives be the same in all scales?
One thing I've seen work well on other car shortening projects is to keep the seams away from the middle of the car where the eye naturally gravitates. And on boxcars and baggage cars, make the cuts right alongside the door frame which can camouflage it pretty well.
And add a continuous length piece hidden somewhere underneath for strength.
Quote from: Flare on May 30, 2016, 12:27:05 PM
Wouldn't the tools and adhesives be the same in all scales?
Don't know. Never had or worked on an On30 car. (See my point now?)
Since the car you will be modeling was a wood car. Why not just make one from wood. Ok if you cut the sides and the end off, and shorten the car. You still will need to make a new floor. You still will need to repaint, and letter the car. almost as much work and building the whole car.
Quote from: Trainman203 on May 30, 2016, 02:53:02 PM
One thing I've seen work well on other car shortening projects is to keep the seams away from the middle of the car where the eye naturally gravitates. And on boxcars and baggage cars, make the cuts right alongside the door frame which can camouflage it pretty well.
And add a continuous length piece hidden somewhere underneath for strength.
Yes, I was thinking of having the seam be along one of the stake holders rather than the center. And the walls I'll be removing should be perfect for adding strength.
I'm not seeing many results for such projects online though, and they aren't mentioning which tools or adhesives to use either.
I assume a Dremel will make the cutting task easy, but they don't appear to have a cutting wheel made for plastic. Which wheel will work best?
Would a low-grit sanding band also will be the best candidate for finalizing the cut to make it straight?
And can I just use super glue for a bonding agent or would something made specifically for plastics be better?
Quote from: RAM on May 30, 2016, 10:13:15 PM
Since the car you will be modeling was a wood car. Why not just make one from wood. Ok if you cut the sides and the end off, and shorten the car. You still will need to make a new floor. You still will need to repaint, and letter the car. almost as much work and building the whole car.
I don't trust my assembly or painting skills very much, otherwise I would have bought a kit.
I intend for the car to carry a load that will hide the floor, and my painting skills aren't that good so I'd like to keep the painting limited to touching up anything that doesn't match the factory color.
Quote from: Flare on May 30, 2016, 10:16:51 PM
I assume a Dremel will make the cutting task easy, but they don't appear to have a cutting wheel made for plastic.
I don't believe they do either, but the discs they do sell, will cut plastic. To cut plastic I also use a Coping Saw blade, cut down to about 2.5-3", chucked in a Pin Vise. The more teeth to the blade, the finer the cut, the less teeth, the rougher the cut.
Buy yourself an Xacto Razor Saw and Mitre Box, they come in sets.
Do NOT use a Dremel tool to cut plastic. It will melt rather than cut the plastic.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger,a VERY VERY slow Dremel speed ought to be ok, right?
I'm getting ready to kitbash a Bachmann 1860 wood combine, and a similar Mantua one, into "drovers" (sometimes called "long") cabooses, and will be removing roof areas for cupola placement. Need to know.
If there is a concern about melting plastic using a motor tool, try using painters tape to mask areas of concern. Like this:
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16767&whichpage=4
Quote from: Trainman203 on May 31, 2016, 05:48:57 PM
Roger,a VERY VERY slow Dremel speed ought to be ok, right?
I'm getting ready to kitbash a Bachmann 1860 wood combine, and a similar Mantua one, into "drovers" (sometimes called "long") cabooses, and will be removing roof areas for cupola placement. Need to know.
Personally, I'd never use a Dremel to cut a plastic model. In all my kitbashing, and I've done quite a few locos and dozens of buildings, I use either an Exacto Razor Saw or an Exacto Knife with a suitable blade.
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: jbrock27 on May 31, 2016, 06:27:31 AM
Quote from: Flare on May 30, 2016, 10:16:51 PM
I assume a Dremel will make the cutting task easy, but they don't appear to have a cutting wheel made for plastic.
I don't believe they do either
In thinking about this further, I have come across an acessory that cuts plastic w/o melting it. Not 100% sure, but I believe I bought it at Home Depot. Instead of being like the standard cutting wheels that are smooth on the edge, this wheel is metal and looks like a mini Skil-Saw blade. I've used it to cut 2 of the plastic posts off a Bachmann FTA shell so I could fit it on a Bachmann Plus F7A chasisis. Funny thing is, I had originally bought it with cutting metal in mind :D
I will also add this, I don't know how ideal cutting long straight lines, cutting wheels are, so if that is the kind of cut that is planned, using the Coping Saw blade I mentioned or one of
Roger's suggested tools may be better for the job.
The saw that I like is made by Zona. Atlas makes one for about $5. Check with Walthers. I would not want to use a power saw. It would be fast, but I think you have more control with a hand tool.
Quote from: RAM on June 01, 2016, 10:59:08 PM
The saw that I like is made by Zona. Atlas makes one for about $5. Check with Walthers. I would not want to use a power saw. It would be fast, but I think you have more control with a hand tool.
That Zona one looks like the best option with 52 teeth per inch.
I've decided against cutting the car with a power tool, but what about sanding? Will that overheat the plastic if I use a light touch?
Quote from: Flare on June 02, 2016, 12:16:45 AM
...what about sanding? Will that overheat the plastic if I use a light touch?
No that will not. Lots of options there-needle files, sand paper, emery boards.
X-Acto also makes an extra fine razor saw. X75350. Got mine at an Ocean State Job Lot for $3.99 ;). But one thing what would concern me about using a razor saw is working on the plastic of a box car is not like cutting a 2 x 4 and I would be very careful about applying too much downward pressure with the saw, like when cutting a plastic shell so to avoid cracking the shell somewhere I did not want it cracked.
Heck, for what you are planning to cut, the ends of a flat car, you could probably get away with a fine toothed hacksaw or coping saw, then clean it up with your sanding. I would clamp what you are cutting to a wood block so it does not move around.
All the suggestions so far are good.
I agree with making the cut as close to the end as possible rather than in the middle if the car, it's easier to hide.
Personally I like a Zona or Exacto razor saw, used with a miter box.
Blades I use are upwards of 40 TPI, get a 54 TPI if you can.
It's what I use.
As @jbrock27 mentioned the more TPI the smoother the cut will be. This also helps to keep the car body from vibrating as you cut it.
Go slow and easy, a very minimum of down force is necessary, just enough to keep the blade in contact with the work.
Then use a flat needle file to very delicately clean up the cut edges.
I like to file a small bevel on the inside of the cut.
I'll then tack the inside seam with Super Glue in several places.
Then on the outside of the seam, I will apply Bondo Glazing putty, from a syringe, directly down into the seam.
This method eliminates sanding the putty completely.
A few links,
please note I model N scale, so your miter box and saw blades will be larger.But just to get an idea, look at these links;
Miter box; http://www.micromark.com/miter-box-for-razor-saw,6752.html
Saw blades; http://www.micromark.com/razor-saw-blade-1-1and4-inches-x-5-inches-54-tpi-pkg-of-2,11846.html
Example, if cut filled with glazing putty, no sanding afterwards; (note tender body is not fastened down to frame, just placed in position for photo, cut was right down behind rivet line;
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt207/sandjambag/big%20apple%20tender/036_zpsiz1jmwns.jpg)
QuoteHeck, for what you are planning to cut, the ends of a flat car, you could probably get away with a fine toothed hacksaw or coping saw, then clean it up with your sanding. I would clamp what you are cutting to a wood block so it does not move around.
^^^ Probably almost exactly what I did on my first bash, used a GP9 body and made an RP-E4D slug from it.
Make due with something you already have at your disposal if possible before allocating funds for specialty tools.
Good luck
Okay, the Gondola and tender shell I'll be gluing on it arrived yesterday. The tender is exactly the same width as the 'flatcar' so I'll probably be able to get away with hiding the seam along a stake holder.
The razor saw and miter box are still on order, but while I wait for them what color and brand of touch-up paint should I look for that matches Bachmann's black plastic?
And does that Bondo glazing putty work on plastic or should I look for something specifically made for plastic?
Ever hear it said that while there are many shades of white, there is only one shade of black?
Does what you are going to paint have a flat or glossy finish?
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 03, 2016, 07:02:36 PM
Ever hear it said that while there are many shades of white, there is only one shade of black?
Does what you are going to paint have a flat or glossy finish?
And weathering covers many a slight mismatch in shades of paint. :)
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: rogertra on June 03, 2016, 07:46:34 PM
weathering
Cheers
Roger T.
One step at a time, old boy... ;)
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 03, 2016, 07:02:36 PM
Ever hear it said that while there are many shades of white, there is only one shade of black?
Does what you are going to paint have a flat or glossy finish?
Nope.
The finish appears to be flat, possibly semi gloss. Kind of hard to tell because most of it's textured to look like wood.
QuoteAnd does that Bondo glazing putty work on plastic or should I look for something specifically made for plastic?
It works excellent on plastic, it's all I've used for well over a decade now.
Never a problem with shrinkage or cracking.
I quit with the Squadron green and white putties long ago.
In my experience they go on too dry and are very grainy.
Others love the Squadron and use nothing else.
YMMV
From Wally world.
Bondo Glazing and Spot putty #907 here;
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bondo-Glazing-and-Spot-Putty-4.5-oz/16927984
Read the customer reviews on that page.
Quote from: James in FL on June 03, 2016, 10:11:54 PM
QuoteAnd does that Bondo glazing putty work on plastic or should I look for something specifically made for plastic?
It works excellent on plastic, it's all I've used for well over a decade now.
Never a problem with shrinkage or cracking.
I quit with the Squadron green and white putties long ago.
In my experience they go on too dry and are very grainy.
Others love the Squadron and use nothing else.
YMMV
From Wally world.
Bondo Glazing and Spot putty #907 here;
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bondo-Glazing-and-Spot-Putty-4.5-oz/16927984
Read the customer reviews on that page.
Says it's not available at that particular retailer in my area, but my local auto parts store carries it!
Quote from: Flare on June 03, 2016, 11:33:21 PM
Says it's not available at that particular retailer in my area, but my local auto parts store carries it!
No surprise, that stuff has been used forever in auto body repair!!
Back in the bad old days when rust was more of a problem than it is now, there would be jokes about how much of some cars was still steel and how much was Bondo!! :D
At least one real railroad used Bondo, too.
This was the Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee, an interurban that ran between its two namesake cities.
What was likely its best known equipment were two articulated trains called the Electroliners. Both have survived into preservation, one at Orbisonia, Pa., as a Red Arrow Liberty Liner (the sets were sold to Philadelphia after the North Shore was abandoned), and one that was returned to its native territory at Union, Illinois.
In the process of restoration, the paint was stripped from the Union set, and it was found the end cars had considerable rust and collision damage. Supposedly there was something like a hundred pounds of Bondo in each one!
This has since been properly replaced with steel.
Quote from: Trainman203 on May 31, 2016, 05:48:57 PM
Roger,a VERY VERY slow Dremel speed ought to be ok, right?
I'm getting ready to kitbash a Bachmann 1860 wood combine, and a similar Mantua one, into "drovers" (sometimes called "long") cabooses, and will be removing roof areas for cupola placement. Need to know.
Wrong tool ,Please do not advise this way.If the correct precision cut tool is available like Roger advised why steer someone the wrong way .Amotor tool may be used for rough cuts only. I found a old miter box at a yard sale and a 10 inch precision cut hand saw ultra fine tooth Japanese made with a wood handle on sale at Harbor Freight and it will cut so fine that you cannot see the cut seam of a painted item when joined together sitting there without being bonded .A tool lke this does make good work easier.But you still have to clamp the part down and work slow. This is the correct tool to advise.
Johnny