i have been doing some research on track and questions that have come to mind are; the code 100 flex track. how flexible is it and what is the most common use for it? does it flex enough for a tight curve or? if i stick to code 100, will all the manufacturer code 100 track fit together? talking the non roadbed track. nickel/silver seems the most popular, however, some of the track i have is in new condition and brass. can the n/S be mixed with the brass? Being cost conscious, isn't everybody, i am looking at used track. anybody have comments/advice on used track? found some reputable reasonable deals for consideration .... one more outside the box question is mixing code 100 with code 83 possible or the rail height difference make it unfeasible? thought i had more but my mind has gone blank:))
bsamot,
Welcome! Some track answers that may help:
Mixing various kinds of track is very possible. I have done it. You can mix brass track with NS track. Be aware that brass conducts just as well as NS, but brass does get dirty faster. Most brass track is Code 100 and will line up with code 100 NS track. EZ track sits slightly higher than NS track with cork roadbed, but it is not hard to adjust height with a little cardstock under the cork roadbed.
Mixing Code 83 track with Code 100 is possible, and I have done it, but it's more trouble than it's worth in my opinion (just an opinion).
Flex track will blend well with sectional track, and will flex down pretty tight. You will want to solder the joints together, BEFORE you bend the flex track. This prevents kinks. If you are not comfortable with soldering, than I would avoid flex track. Better yet, get comfortable with soldering. :) It doesn't take long to learn and is most beneficial when laying track and wiring.
One more important tidbit: if you cut up track to fit (and you will) save the railroad ties. You'll need them later to complete the trackwork.
Regards,
Jonathan
To amplify a bit on Jonathon's reply - The issue with brass track is that it oxidizes in air over time, and the oxide is not conductive. Use of an electronics contact cleaner or a product called Rail-Zip will keep the oxidation at bay for a while longer. You can mix Code 100 with Code 83, and I belive you can get rail joiners that have an off-set to match the two sizes together. I know they make such compromise joiners for Code 100/Code 70.
If you use flex track, as Jonathon noted when you bend a curve the two rails become different lenghs and need to be trimmed to join the perviously laid length. Use either a rail nipper or a Dremel with a cutoff disc to trim; solder the joints square first before making the final curve bend to tack the track in place. Another thing to keep in mind - depending on the size of the layout you will want to install power feeders about every six feet of track or so to avoid voltage drop, especially if you are using DCC.
Ah, the feeder track question! i understand the feeder sections at intervals, are the added feeders run from same transformer?
Quote from: bsamot69 on June 02, 2016, 12:24:04 PM
Ah, the feeder track question! i understand the feeder sections at intervals, are the added feeders run from same transformer?
What kind of power source drives this question? DC or DCC?
Nut is correct, they do sell joiners to transition between Code 100 and 83. There are other methods as well, search the Net for them.
Wahl Clipper oil is also good for keeping the tarnish off of brass track.
You want to avoid making tight curves and want to make as broad a curve as you can get away with, with the space you have to work with (same goes for switches/turnouts you elect to use). If you are looking to use tight curves (15"R or 18"R) might as well use sectional track.
bsa: Yes, if you are using DC. I do not claim to be a DCC expert, but they do sell boosters to maintain power and signal strength at the far corners of a larger layout.
at this juncture, the layout will be DC. jward brought to mind some questions on curves from my other post. my research has shown me there are differing curve radius available. i have seen 18r, 22r, 24 r and 15r, the last 2 not so much. which curve sections are most common? my online perusal of bulk curve track deals drives the previous question. i have read that a curve using 18 r sections can cause problems for long car consists, like 85' Amtrak coaches together (which i have). if i assemble a curve and measure between the inside rails, what dimension should i see for the various curves available? what is the best solder to use when soldering the N/S flex? I love to solder, muahahaha, ;). i have received a wealth of information from this forum and sincerely appreciate your patience with this true newbie to 2 rail!!
Quote from: bsamot69 on June 02, 2016, 12:56:13 PM
at this juncture, the layout will be DC
1) how big? 2) what DC power source, if any, do you have now?
Quote from: bsamot69 on June 02, 2016, 12:56:13 PM
which curve sections are most common?
18"R
Quote from: bsamot69 on June 02, 2016, 12:56:13 PM
i have read that a curve using 18 r sections can cause problems for long car consists, like 85' Amtrak coaches
This is correct. As I posted elsewhere for you, go with as a high a radius as you can manage with the space you have to work with. Which begs the question: what space do you have to work with?
okay, here goes. i have several Bachmann model 6607 trafos, output 17 VDC 20 VAC, i just confirmed the curve track i have is 18r, measured 18" from inside rail, center of top of curve to bottom where the 180 is. i posted a pic of the space available (my 1st upload, scary). the 28" dimension is flexible up to 40". my drawing is too big to post. 118 inches by 47 inches
I must correct ebtnut's post.
with dcc, you can run multiple feeders off the command station as long as you get the polarity correct. this redundancy greatly improves operation under dcc.
with dc, on a layout of any complexity or one where you want to run more than one train at the same time you will be using block control. simply put, you will divide you track into zones, called blocks, which are electrically isolated from each other on at least one rail. this is what the insulated rail joiners are for. each block is individually wired to a different electrical switch so that it can be turned off, or switched between one or more controllers. usually, these blocks are short enough, and dc control forgiving enough, that you won't need more than one set of feeders per block. if you do want to add additional feeders to any particular block, they would connect to the electrical switch itself. to connect any section of track directly to a controller would bypass the block switch, and at the very least result in the loss of the ability to shut that track off or connect it to a different controller.
I alluded to having one rail insulated/gapped. it is possible to have all your gaps on only one rail in most cases. in doing so the ungapped rail becomes a common return, and ypu can add as many feeders to this rail as you want or need directly from your controllers. if you do this you will also want to connect one terminal on each controller to the others, the remaining terminal will be connected to the block switches.
most entry level layout books will contain a more detailed description of block control.
Quote from: bsamot69 on June 02, 2016, 01:52:18 PM
i just confirmed the curve track i have is 18r, measured 18" from inside rail, center of top of curve to bottom where the 180 is.
To make life easier for you in the future, you should not have to measure to determine that; you can look on the underside of the track and it should be stamped there.
So is this a 118" by 47" rectangle you are working with?
As
Mr. Ward stated, Common Rail wiring is the way to go for a not too large DC layout. And I agree with him, multiple feeders for one block should not be needed. However, don't know if you Bmann controller will cut it. I can definitely tell you an MRC power pack will.
Perhaps consider one for your "main route" and use a Bmann controller for Cab #2 to control spurs or sidings or short blocks. Those Bmann controllers would also be good for powering other things like lights and accessories (things like switch machines). Stay away from using the same controller to power the track as you do to throw switch machines. Just make sure you hook up to the correct terminals for what you are powering.
Quote from: jward on June 02, 2016, 07:38:54 PM
...if you do want to add additional feeders to any particular block, they would connect to the electrical switch itself.
One small point. I think rather than doing that, you would want to simply tap into a power wire, with something like a wire tap connector, downstream from where it is coming from the switch, toward feeding power to the track. You still have the control of the switch and you don't have to be concerned with jamming multiple wires on the posts of the switch.
Here is an excellent YouTube I found on Common Rail wiring some time ago and Bookmarked, in homage to RichG ;):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73o6g2zjaQ
Hi, all;
I haven't done this-in fact, I just thought of maybe trying it: Clover House et al sells ties made from PC board, with a gap in the middle of the tie for insulation. As you get the curves you desire into the flex track, why not remove a couple of plastic ties and solder a couple of these ties in their place? The added stability would certainly work in your favour, keeping the configuration in place. Your thoughts?
Rich C.
Rich,
I've used super glue to maintain the shape of flex track. Once the track is shaped and pinned or nailed in place, I run super glue between the bottom of the rail and ties. After the glue dries, the track can be removed from the layout (for what ever reason) and the flex track will maintain its shape.
Rod in PA
Quote from: Rod in PA on June 04, 2016, 08:59:44 AM
After the glue dries, the track can be removed from the layout (for what ever reason) and the flex track will maintain its shape.
Rod in PA
That seems to me to defeat part of the beauty and purpose of flex track; after that, you no longer have the ability to form it in another shape, for another layout use, which if you were removing it to begin with, why wouldn't you want the option to reform it?
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 04, 2016, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Rod in PA on June 04, 2016, 08:59:44 AM
After the glue dries, the track can be removed from the layout (for what ever reason) and the flex track will maintain its shape.
Rod in PA
That seems to me to defeat part of the beauty and purpose of flex track; after that, you no longer have the ability to form it in another shape, for another layout use, which if you were removing it to begin with, why wouldn't you want the option to reform it?
Exactly. I don't see the point of doing that. Why buy flex track if you going to convert it to set track? Glueing the rail to the ties as is suggested will not make the track any more stable than just lightly pinning it down and then ballasting it with ballast and your favourite diluted glue.
You are making the flex track almost impossible to reuse or to make any future alterations to your track plan.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger;
The main selling point -to me-is that flex-track will conform to meet the demands of a particular configuration. If you have a transition from one angle to another, flex- as you know, will fill the bill; but if you want stability if, say for some reason, you have something to do before the transit goes down, securing the configuration will help you.
From my angle, one could just as well solder pieces of wire to the tops of the rails, de-solder when through, and just clean up the excess.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 04, 2016, 07:25:23 PM
...solder pieces of wire to the tops of the rails...
Rich C.
???
R-read it, Brock.
Rich C>
I did Cormier, and it still says "solder pieces of wire to the tops of the rails". ???
Quote from: jbrock27 on June 05, 2016, 01:31:37 PM
I did Cormier, and it still says "solder pieces of wire to the tops of the rails". ???
He then goes on to say "de-solder when through, and just clean up the excess." :)
Cheers
Roger T.
It also says; "De-solder when through"... Would you care to borrow my specs?
(heavy sigh) Yes, boys, I know it does. But why? What, pray tell, is the point and purpose of this procedure Mr. C? What is it supposed to accomplish and gain for someone?
Quote from: jonathan on June 02, 2016, 10:43:21 AMYou will want to solder the joints together, BEFORE you bend the flex track. This prevents kinks. If you are not comfortable with soldering, than I would avoid flex track. Better yet, get comfortable with soldering. :) It doesn't take long to learn and is most beneficial when laying track and wiring.
Illustration of that happened recently at our little model RR club on the DCC-only HO layout; we also have a modular HO DC/DCC layout.
Even on what I think is about a 28 inch radius curve, and even having the rial joints offset by a bout an inch difference between inner and outer rail there was a slight kink.
The members who laid and are the ones who primarily operate the DCC-only layout weren't concerned as all their power went through just fine.
However ...
When other members used that layout there were problems at that joint.
Turned out that the primary group used almost all 6 axle power and the other members' 4 axle power had trouble at that joint - the shorter the wheelbase of each truck, the more trouble.
One fellow's brand new DCC 70 tonner derailed every time at that joint.
He cane and showed me his trouble.
I went and got my soldering stuff - problem soon ceased to exist.
I didn't take up the entire curve, which is not yet ballasted. Pulled enough track nails either side of joint to push track toward middle of curve enough to make joint plus an inch or two each side more or less straight.
Tacked it that way with nails against outside rail. Then pretty much saturated the joints with solder. Had to file a bit of excess solder down on inner face of rail web above joiner, but hey, those joints
will hold! After solder had cooled I pulled the temporary nails and re-secured the track.
And David's little green 70 tonner now rolls over that joint like it isn't there ;D
And so does everything else for that matter.
On30;
Sounds like a job well done. Now...Brock...If you are soldering wires to the tops of the rail AFTER you first form it to your needs, the track will stay reasonably stable whilst you are installing it. The wire (and I do hope you figured it out that you should be using wire like phosphor Bronze, as it is tenacious enough to hold its shape-and you remove (de-solder??) the wires when completed with said task. Of course, the other option would be to use the ties made from PC board, as I had previously mentioned. Although the better option, Both ways have justification for being used. Just for the record, use rail joiners for connectors; do NOT rely upon solder to hold the rails together; and use pigtails (wire leaders from track to buss) about every six feet. I make nine out of #18 stranded, usu. THWN, MTW, et al. A lot of guys use t'stat wire. That is probably OK per application; I just prefer stranded conductors. Do NOT use anything smaller...
Rich C.
Thank you Rich, I appreciate your taking the time to explain your concept further. I am still not clear on why spiking or nailing the flex track as you go along, in the shape you want, would not do the trick and thus avoid having to put solder on top of the rails, which just makes for one other thing to have to take/clean off the rails.
Where were ties made from PC board, mentioned previously?
Don't worry, I always use rail joiners. Do you actually know people who don't?
A lot of folks, instead of pig tails, simply solder their feeder wires to a buss wire. Seems like one of the more reliable methods to me.
A "pigtail" IS what you call a "feeder". Look further back for P.C. ties.
Sorry, when I see/read 'pig tails', I am thinking/seeing wire nuts in use to secure striped wire together that has been "pig tailed".
Sorry, did not look back far enough-Clover House, etc for P.C. ties. Thank you for broadening my horizons.
And for the record, I don't have need to be overly concerned about feeder wires since I run a rather modest DC layout, with even just one set of wires from the pack to the track and most of the joiners soldered, it is enough to have uninterrupted power throughout. I completely understand the different need for them with a DCC layout. I agree with you in preference to stranded wire.
When using flex track make sure the movable track is on the inside of the curve.
Why, you ask? ;D
Well, if not, you will find very large gaps between the ties, Very un-prototype looking. :o
Ken; Now THAT is a post worth reading! Thank you.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on June 05, 2016, 09:58:35 PM
...Now THAT is a post worth reading!
Rich C.
There some inference in this statement?
Re: pigtail and wiring
https://www.handymanhowto.com/how-to-replace-a-worn-out-electrical-outlet-part-3/
And while your advice about feeders every 6 feet I am sure is good for DCC applications, the OP stated his is layout is DC and therefore this advice is not applicable in his situation. You must have overlooked that, but that is what happens when Threads get hijacked.
You are right,
Ken's post was definitely worth reading if using flex track.