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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: cdat1963 on October 16, 2016, 11:17:39 AM



Title: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: cdat1963 on October 16, 2016, 11:17:39 AM
This is probably a dumb question but I will try. I am a newbie to DCC and recently upgraded from Ez Command to Dynamis. Since I converted most of my engines stop in a few places on the track, usually at turnouts. My layout is 4 ft by 7 1/2 long, a double track oval. I have a set of feeders to each oval. I clean the track but the same engines stop at the same spots. Do I need more feeders or is there something else I need to look at?
Thank You


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 16, 2016, 12:49:51 PM
Before going to DCC, did you run DC locos with no problem on this same layout?  If the answer is no, then it sounds to me like you have created a "reverse loop" in your layout.  Need more info on what that is or would you like to research what that is and determine for yourself if is that is what you have done and that is what the problem is?


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: cdat1963 on October 16, 2016, 01:42:40 PM
I never had that problem with dc and I do not have a reverse loop
Thanks though


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jward on October 16, 2016, 02:51:03 PM
if you did have a short due to a reverse loop it would have shut down the layout so that nothing would run. this would be true dc or dcc.

a more likely scenario is that your locomotives are losing contact on the switches (turnouts)

one of the most common things that happens is that the points lose contact with their adjacent stock rails, making the entire switchpoint a dead spot. this is easy to confirm with a multimeter by taking voltage readings between the switchpoint and the opposite rail. the voltage will read the same as the voltage across the rails on a regular piece of track. if it reads 0 you have a dead point.

fortunately the fix is pretty simple. solder a jumper wire from the point to the adjacent stock rail. be careful that you do not accidentally solder the hinge on the point so that it no longer pivots, it is best to solder your jumper to the inside bottom edge of the point, maybe 1/2 inch ahead of the hinge, and route the wire under the roadbed to the stock rail. you can make your connection anywhere on that stock rail, but solder to the outside edge of the rail. since you made your joint to the point on the inside edge where the wheels run, you may need to carefully file the solder away to clear the wheels.


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: Squallywally on October 16, 2016, 03:41:57 PM
I was having similar issues with a couple of my locos. I noticed a particular loco would only stop on a turn out going a certain direction on either a facing point or trailing point. I found that one of the pickup/ contact wires on one of the trucks had come unconnected. I use dead frog turn outs and the loco would stall out on the frog on the side that the wire was disconnected.

Just something to check.


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: Len on October 16, 2016, 07:03:45 PM
From the OP: "I clean the track but the same engines stop at the same spots."

That doesn't sound like a short, more like a dead spot. Is this same spot on a turnout, or somewhere else?

Len


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 17, 2016, 06:53:07 AM
You are welcome cdat but I am sorry my answer was not helpful.

In the past, I have come across an excellent YouTube video of how to do just what Mr. Ward suggests with the turnout, on a traditional turnout/switch, but can imagine it would be a little more difficult to do with EZ track since the roadbed is already attached.


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jonathan on October 17, 2016, 09:47:14 AM
cdat,

As jward suggests, I have had similar problems with turnouts, where certain locomotives are particularly sensitive to loss-of-contact, while travelling through a turnout.

For me, the solution has been to solder a feeder wire to the rail that exists between the switch point and the frog, if you get my meaning.  I'm sure that particular rail has a name, but I can't think of it at the moment.  I think it is fairly common for that rail to lose its conductivity, as I believe is relies on its conductivity from the switch point connection.

jward suggests soldering feeders to the switch points which is an excellent solution I'm sure.  I just soldered to the next section of rail in the turnout.  Just another way to tackle the same problem.

Regards,

Jonathan


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 17, 2016, 07:40:48 PM
But you do not utilize EZ track turnouts/switches JV, correct?


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jonathan on October 18, 2016, 07:28:03 AM
That is correct.  I have never tried an EZtrack turnout.  So there may be some idiosyncrasy of which I am unaware.

Regards,

Jonathan


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 18, 2016, 08:47:26 PM
I have never tried an EZtrack turnout.
Regards,

Jonathan

You should consider yourself lucky then...

So there may be some idiosyncrasy of which I am unaware.

Regards,

Jonathan

Yep, that is what I am thinking. 

I would like to see or see described, how to accomplish what has been suggested with an EZ track turnout/switch.  I know how it can be easily accomplished with an aforementioned traditional turnout/switch that does not have roadbed molded in, but with an EZ track one...


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: Jerrys HO on October 18, 2016, 09:05:22 PM
I have never tried an EZtrack turnout.
Regards,

Jonathan

You should consider yourself lucky then...

 

I would like to see or see described, how to accomplish what has been suggested with an EZ track turnout/switch.  I know how it can be easily accomplished with an aforementioned traditional turnout/switch that does not have roadbed molded in, but with an EZ track one...

Well you tend to bash Bachmann so much my question is " Have you ever tried any Bachmann products besides engines. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on their products.
I have over 10 switches and had usual problems with the points as other manufacturers.
Would it be hard to do the mentioned, IDK but it does not look as hard as you think. A little drilling and soldering maybe. I'll post if I ever have to do it.


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 18, 2016, 09:12:56 PM
Well you tend to bash Bachmann so much

Completely false.

Why so sensitive to that comment?

Have you ever tried any Bachmann products besides engines.

I take that is a question?  If so, the answer is "yes".

You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on their products.

Thank you.  I go off of what I read here (before it gets deleted of course) and other places.

My posed question still stands. ;)


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 18, 2016, 09:34:17 PM
...if I ever have to do it.

If the case is you never have done it, what puts you in the position to make these statements...

Would it be hard to do the mentioned, IDK but it does not look as hard as you think. A little drilling and soldering maybe.
???

You are right, you don't know.


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: Jerrys HO on October 18, 2016, 10:38:35 PM
Well you tend to bash Bachmann so much

Completely false.
There are more negative on Bachmann than positive. Track,controllers,switches, etc.

Why so sensitive to that comment?
As a Bachmann user I feel you degrade the product. I have been using them for years with no major problems
 
Have you ever tried any Bachmann products besides engines.

I take that is a question?  If so, the answer is "yes".
Name  it and prove it/

You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on their products.

Thank you.  I go off of what I read here (before it gets deleted of course) and other places.
You answered what I have been talking about with "before they get deleted".

My posed question still stands. ;)
By looking at one of my turnouts (all numbered one's) the only difference would be to put a small hole in the roadbed to feed the wire through. everything else is the same. If you would like I could in time do this to one of my standard turnouts that is not used anymore and report back? While your at it hold your breath and wait for my answer.



Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: James in FL on October 18, 2016, 11:47:02 PM
@cdat1963
I’m late to the party but I’m thinking like @Len.
It sounds more like an “Open” rather than a “Short”
All the suggestions here, on applying power to dead sections of a turnout, are spot on.
They all have merit. Live frogs are always a plus.
Also, put a long straight edge on the railhead make sure you’re level (no dips), over all your turnouts, straight and diverging.
Do you have access to a multi-meter?
I am assuming you are using EZ-Track? Yes?


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 19, 2016, 07:49:56 AM
There are more negative on Bachmann than positive. Track,controllers,switches, etc.

By me alone or in general?

As a Bachmann user I feel you degrade the product.

Unfortunate that you feel that way, but this appears to be more like an insecurity on your part.  Am I poking fun at you or critquing you, for buying the products?  Nope.  If you like the products, keep buying and using them, no one's stopping you or dictating what you should buy or use.

Name  it and prove it/

You clearly have zero memory capacity; remember the Silver Series cars I said I bought that come with metal wheel-sets?  The same cars you bought but did not realize they were supposed to come with metal wheel-sets bc the ones you purchased had the wheel-sets replaced by plastic ones?

You answered what I have been talking about with "before they get deleted".

You may be thinking strictly in terms of my posts, which I suspect you are, but that is not what I was inferring.  If you fail to understand the significance of those actions (deletions of posts that are critical of products (or service for that matter), well, then you will likely never understand the significance.

I could in time do this to one of my standard turnouts that is not used anymore and report back? While your at it hold your breath and wait for my answer.

No worries, I've long since learned I can't count on your following through with what you say you will do...
 


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: AGSB on October 19, 2016, 09:26:33 AM
What does this bickering  back and forth have to add to the OP's question? Take it someplace else.

That's my biggest gripe with this board and why I don't post very much. One guy says it's up and another says it's more up, I've heard better discussions from 4 year olds. Grow up for Christ's sake.


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: Len on October 19, 2016, 11:51:38 AM
Although it's aimed at DCC layouts, the ideas in the "Turnouts" section of Allan Gartner's "Wiring for DCC" site also eliminate a lot of problems on DC layouts. It can be found at:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm)

Len


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 19, 2016, 01:07:07 PM
What does this bickering  back and forth have to add to the OP's question? Take it someplace else.

That's my biggest gripe with this board and why I don't post very much. One guy says it's up and another says it's more up, I've heard better discussions from 4 year olds. Grow up for Christ's sake.

Hey, numero uno, I did nothing to initiate this back and forth business.  Number 2, do you not understand the sense of my question about EZ track turnout/switch modification?  Number 3, are YOU adding something to this thread?


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jward on October 22, 2016, 11:34:53 AM
In the past, I have come across an excellent YouTube video of how to do just what Mr. Ward suggests with the turnout, on a traditional turnout/switch, but can imagine it would be a little more difficult to do with EZ track since the roadbed is already attached.

it wouldn't really be any harder than with any other switch. you'd simply drill down through the roadbed and loop your wires up to the rails from under the layout. just the same as you would with a soldered feeder wire.

or, as a precautionary measure, you could solder those jumpers in place before you lay the track, and only route them under the plastic roadbed. an ounce of prevention......


Title: Re: Dcc Engines Shorting Out
Post by: jbrock27 on October 22, 2016, 12:03:00 PM
At last, some direction.

Still, I would not categorize the process as any easier, or no less difficult, considering what is involved with having to work (around) with the plastic roadbed in the way, or the finished product looking nicer for that matter, than being able to do this with a "regular" turnout/switch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y2zRi1mWb0