I just watched someone get trashed in one of the other forums because maybe his spelling and use of capital letters wasn't perfect. I will be the first to admit I am not perfect and dont try to be, But we all come to these forums for the same reason (The Love Of Trains) and for help from the others with the same love as us, I really dont think this poor fellow came here to have a Kindergarden Hook On Phonics Ad thrown back at him
I am new to this forum also and this is the kind of action that drives people away, I am sure that I will get attacted for speaking for up in his defence, we are all adults and should act like it.
Tom
Tom,
While the "hooked on phonics" thing may have been over the top, there has been much discussion about this topic on here before.
Yes we all make a spelling error now and then, and we are not all English teachers, but reasonable spelling, grammer and complete sentances/thoughts that are free of text message/chatt room short cuts is not too much to expect.
Personally, I simply don't read or respond to postings that are written like the one that prompted the "hooked on phonics" response. So if anyone wants my help, information or opinion, they will have to have some basic command of the English language.
Sheldon
I share Sheldon's sentiments-and I am sure Gene will chime in with just as adamant posture as we two have.
In this country, there are standards based largely upon what you have been exposed to in the school system. These are inclusive of math, proper spelling, English, and grammar.
I am a business owner. Proper communication of ideas is imperative in my business. If I am interviewing a job applicant, and they do not annunciate well, properly, spell well, or grammaticize correctly, I cannot use them-period!! I have seen too many potentially disastrous mistakes in this trade based on the aforementioned to think otherwise. I carry that into all other aspects of life, as I want to be properly understood, as well as understand the intentions of other ideas.
On a forum, it is also neccessary to have and maintain relatively high standards in said areas. I believe it is not too much to ask of contributors to spell properly, grammatiscize properly, so as not to be cunfusing. If you do not know how to understand English, learn! It is the spoken language in this country. LIkewise grammar and spelling. I for one, have no truck with people who do not maintain those standards. If I sound like an SOB, that is just tough!
THat is the way it is.
RIch
OK... I'm a dummy here.
What does "have no truck" mean?
Quote from: r.cprmier on November 27, 2007, 08:31:37 AM
I share Sheldon's sentiments-and I am sure Gene will chime in with just as adamant posture as we two have.
In this country, there are standards based largely upon what you have been exposed to in the school system. These are inclusive of math, proper spelling, English, and grammar.
I am a business owner. Proper communication of ideas is imperative in my business. If I am interviewing a job applicant, and they do not annunciate well, properly, spell well, or grammaticize correctly, I cannot use them-period!! I have seen too many potentially disastrous mistakes in this trade based on the aforementioned to think otherwise. I carry that into all other aspects of life, as I want to be properly understood, as well as understand the intentions of other ideas.
On a forum, it is also neccessary to have and maintain relatively high standards in said areas. I believe it is not too much to ask of contributors to spell properly, grammatiscize properly, so as not to be cunfusing. If you do not know how to understand English, learn! It is the spoken language in this country. LIkewise grammar and spelling. I for one, have no truck with people who do not maintain those standards. If I sound like an SOB, that is just tough!
THat is the way it is.
RIch
Poor spelling skills are a sticky point with me also, however we are reaping the fruit of our educational system's shortcomings. I would suggest that since this is a hobby forum, and not something that is critical, that we cut people a little slack.
For those of us that feel inadequate in spelling, Google's toolbar has a dictionary that will do spellcheck for you. Although not perfect, it's pretty good. You might even want to try it on this thread!
Mike
I had to search for the post in question, but i found it..
in my opinion the "hooked on phonics" reply was totally justified..
there is no excuse for such lazy typing..
its not difficult to take 2 seconds to do it right..and to also LOOK at what you typed before you post and correct it if necessary.
Scot
Reading Mark Twain will explain: "...have no truck..." It was quite common in 19th Century Misouri! :D It means "...having nothing to do with..." I've actually heard it in the past.
Being a retired English teacher and still struggling author, I have to say that common courtesy dictates that one put one's best foot forward when entering a forum. The post in question showed no attempt at review. The response was a bit much, but the post was awful.
A couple of points.
We learn our language at home. In many instances English teachers really need to teach formal English as a second language. It sure is to many of our students.
Those of us who have been around this forum for awhle still remember the "worn out track" string, which slew billions of poor electrons because of the wording of the initial post.
It's axiomatic that one plays or fights the way one trains. Look at Gulf War I as a prime example of that. While I may not be training my writing skills here, others are. if u rite this way hear you rite this way in skool an that techer ain't got no since of humor Studies show that text/chat structure is invading the real world to the detriment of the language.
If you think that missing a word or two isn't important, take "not" out of any one of several of the Ten Commandments. :o
If you thing clarity isn't important, consider that the Charge of the Light Brigade came from the fact that the man writing the order saw one gun position and the man executing the order saw another. "Into the Valley of Death rode the Six Hundred."
Gene
Gene,
Brilliant as always!
Rich,
Yes, I remember, the difference between "go" and "stop" can determine if you keep your fingers while pulling 500 MCM! - just to mention one example!
Mike,
While I will make no excusses for the public schools, these problems really start at home - children must go to school ready and willing to learn and be part of this culture - Oh, that's right, it's not allowed to be ONE culture any more. Maybe that is the real problem.
Sheldon
Hi
I agree the post was bad, My problem was the responce with the Kindergarden Hooked On Phonics thing, Either way myself having just a 9th grade education still understood the post, kranchy just wanted to know if Ho Gauge trains could have sound on board, I felt the correct responce should have been yes they can be purchased with sound period. Not Attac the mans education.
Going further I see this fellow was a new member of only days at the time of his post I just don't think this was a very warm welcome to a new member and will be very surprized if he ever returns to these forums to ask for help
I am also new to the forums and realize that I am an outsider and forums have there clicks, But the bottom line is the love for the hobby and helping the new comers to the hobby That being said I AM SORRY if I ruffeld any feathers as every one here has been kind to me and answered any questions I have asked
But are you sure it was HO? Why not O? Why not "scale"?
Gene
I use a free internet spell checker (adds a tool to your right click) for checking posts.
It is not usable in a couple of forums (like the Kalmbach forums), and I don't always use it, but there is no excuse when the tools are there, and they're free.
I used to use google toolbar with spell check, until they (google) decided they would use spyware installed in an update that talked back to google.
It has been permanently unloaded from our system.
Try it.
TOC
To Gene, et al;
When I went to school, English-four years of it-was a required subject. No tick-ee; no laun-lee! No graduation, no diploma, no chance in hell!
Sorry if I sound both militant and/or dramatic over this topic, but it is-at least to me-imperative that good English be spoken in a country where English is the spoken tongue.
As I said before, In my business, proper English is extremely important. If I told you the amount of times I have found simple words misspelled on site-important words-you'd laugh. Rome really is burning, after all...
Sheldon; what are you doing pulling 500MCM by hand? You must really love hernias, huh? This is what Greenlee makes pulling machines for.
Rich
As I wrote on this same subject on the HO list: -
"In this world, whether we like it or not, how you speak and how you spell automatically classifies your education and social standing and thus how other people perceive you."
If anyone wants to be taken seriously, then you MUST learn to speak, spell and write, if not 100% correctly all the time, at least most of the time.
After all, we all make misttakes. :)
Rich,
Not pulling by hand, but someone is still guiding and pushing, not to mention the dangers of the Greenlee tugger! But that was years a go. Now I spend most of my work time in my cushy office in my restored 1901 Queen Anne home designing additions and renovations for other peoples homes.
Sheldon
Here in New York State English is required in all 12 years of schooling and phonics has really nothing to do with spelling. Hooked on Phonics de-emphasizes spelling. Poor writing is becoming the norm. Some of my graduate students struggle with papers. Sad to say a lot of foreign students who studied English in their countries have better written English skills than natural born Americans who have gone through an American school system.
Children are taught to write in a stream of consciousness style then edit when they are finished. They are told to use a spell check to correct their work. The problem is that memorizing spelling words, spelling bees and spelling tests are considered "Old School" and is de-emphasized or not allowed at all.
I have been guilty of posting items with typos; that is poor proofreading on my part. There are free spell checkers as well as grammar checkers for people to use.
It takes time to write a well thought out answer to a question. If you spend all your time trying to figure out what the question actually means, you have no time to answer it properly. But even if you did manage to answer it, you are then left wondering if the asker is equipped to understand your response. Bottom line, it is easier to answer the questions you understand and ignore the ones you do not.
Sheldon;
When using a puller, the first thing one learns is to never push those conductors into that tube, even if you can. You simply guide them into the bushed opening, and then let the puller do the work. If you push against that pulling basket, you stand a chance of creating slack in that conduit, the basket loosening up, and you lose the whole shebang, after the puller takes up that slack. Momentum... Now...pull those four 500MCM conductors out of 15 or so feet of conduit after you lose the basket. Yes? how do you spell...hernia? How do you spell dum-dum? Been there; done that. I drank hard that night!
RIch
Rich,
I guess I did not explain myself well enough, I was simply refering to the guiding which in my experiance always involved pushing sideways, not into the conduit. But as those things come together off multiple reels, fingers can be in danger is things are going faster or slower than you expect.
Sheldon