Bachmann sells DCC Sound boards in the On-Line "Parts Catalogue" for specific Bachmann DCC locomotives but without any wiring. I'm OK with that, but, Bachmann should provide some instructions for wiring and installation of the purchased Sound Decoders. I recently purchased two sound decoders for two of my Bachmann DCC locomotives, no wiring and no instructions, just DCC sound boards.
Do I wire these un-wired decoders to the output of the existing PC board, thus replacing only the DCC decoder? - OR - Do I wire these in place of the existing PC board and DCC decoder? (????????????)
Quote from: kovaks on December 07, 2016, 10:10:29 PM
Do I wire these un-wired decoders to the output of the existing PC board, thus replacing only the DCC decoder? - OR - Do I wire these in place of the existing PC board and DCC decoder? (????????????)
You can do either.
I would remove both the PC board and the decoder and hardwire the acquired sound decoder, which Bachmann is calling DCC Sound Board. You have to add a speaker (if one not factory installed) plus a 1000 Ohm resister in the circuit of each light function common output.
Yardmaster, No illustrated documentation an oversight in packaging or are the boards being sold without any documentation?
For note.........
The 2 truck HO Climax sound board I just received did indeed have a set of instructions enclosed.
Sid
Sid, I don't see a listing for a 2 truck HO Climax sound board.
I see
DCC Sound Board - AE32023 (DCC Sound)
Made for G Scale 2 Truck Climax Item#86093-99 58mm x 38.2mm x 15.8 (LxWxH)
DCC Sound Board - AE32020 (DCC Sound)
Made for HO 70 Ton 3 Truck Climax '10 27mm x 28mm x 8mm (LxWxH)
Sid, Do confuse the Sound Board with the Sound Module such as item No. 44956, 50-Ton Two-Truck Climax Plug-and-Play Sound Module.
Thanks for the info guys. From the second comment, it looks like Bachmann packaging should have included some instructions. I will write them about that.
I question the first comment though. This is supposed to be a Bachmann Sound Board made for a specific locomotive. In fact it is for an On30 0-4-2 Porter. My Porter came DCC equipped and was working fine. I just wanted to add sound. Why would I need to add a resistor to the headlight circuit? The new Bachmann Sound decoder board should already have that built into its headlight circuit, just like the original DCC system did.
I do agree that probably, this new Sound Board should replace both the original PC board and Decoder module. Specifically because there isn't room in the tiny bunker box to just add the New Sound Board along with everything else, unless I modify/enlarge the bunker.
kovaks,
Usually find the light PC board is where resistors for any lights are located not part of the DCC decoder except when the light PC board and DCC decoder are one board.
You did not originally specify and my reply was not based on an On30 Porter.
I do not have an On30 Porter Sound Board to check for light resistor. Check the one you have. Look for resistor in the circuit traces to the decoder (Sound Board) light function output terminal. Don't know how, then contact Bachmann Service Dept for info regarding the need to add resistor and answers to other questions.
Good luck with your project. And if needed, do use resistors not resisters as the software did I my first reply. ;D
Quote from: Hunt on December 13, 2016, 11:10:41 PM
Sid, Do confuse the Sound Board with the Sound Module such as item No. 44956, 50-Ton Two-Truck Climax Plug-and-Play Sound Module.
Hunt...........
My mistake. I must have had the two mixed up. I didn't realize they were different items.
Sid
Quote from: WoundedBear on December 14, 2016, 08:51:17 AM
Quote from: Hunt on December 13, 2016, 11:10:41 PM
Sid, Do confuse the Sound Board with the Sound Module such as item No. 44956, 50-Ton Two-Truck Climax Plug-and-Play Sound Module.
Hunt...........
My mistake. I must have had the two mixed up. I didn't realize they were different items.
Sid
A common mistake due to lack of relevant product information.
kovaks,
BTW – a BachmannOn30 Porter with factory installed DCC sound uses a sound exciter instead of a speaker, thus using the cab as part of the speaker.
Thanks Hunt, I didn't want to do it, but I disassembled the little On30 Porter locomotive. All six of the wires were black going to the main PC board (PCB) and DCC decoder. They were all twisted together, so I had to de solder them just to be able to tell which wires were which and where they went. There is a little PCB on top of the motor, but it serves only the motor. The headlight wires seem to go directly from the main PCB to the headlight, so there may be a resistor built into the headlight (or it was in the main PCB). All my other Bachmann locomotives use a main PCB that the Sound DCC decoder plugs into, and the headlights are wired directly into that main PCB (which probably has the resistors for them).
So if I need to wire-in/solder the new Sound Decoder to that main PCB, it is going to be a really tight fit (if it will fit at all).
Either way, I think Bachmann should give instructions to tell me which way to go, what wires go where, and/or to wire-in directly or not. If I'm guessing and wire it in wrong - Then What?
And yes, thanks also for the explanation of the speaker. I did buy also the little speaker that has sticky tape to mount the speaker to the inside of the cab.
Yes, when you open a DCC loco, you need basic knowledge of how DCC locos are wired. NMRA covers at least the seven main wires, and a meter for trouble shooting.
All my Bachmann locos have labels on the PC boards so wire color was not important for me.
C for cap, L for inductor, R for resistor plus the different motor, lights, pickups with suitable labels, at least they were suitable for me. Two had zener's. I think they were labeled ZD, not sure right now.
Richiy
kovaks,
Click Here (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/On30%200-4-2%20Porter_Both%20DCC-%20and%20DCC%20Sound-Equpped.pdf)
Do not think you will have room to use the PCB the current DCC decoder is connected to.
Note the lower right top box labeled S282Y#SDC01 shows where internal wires connect to the DCC Sound Board - AE32022 (i.e. SoundTraxx OEM Bachmann sound decoder) for On30 0-4-2 Porter.
Do you have the E.Cap (external capacitor)? If not, ask Bachmann for its specs, a 220uF 16V capacitor or what?
You still need confirmation about headlight resistor.
more. . .
Unexpected .......... the exploded view diagram, lists SPKER#10080 being used, which is
Model: 642XX-SPKR#10080
Speaker #10080 (HO RS-3/S2/S4/Universal).
That is a common style speaker not a sound exciter.
Speaker REF: http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_698&products_id=6387
Thanks again Hunt, That Bachmann parts diagram link you provided, is what I had from the Bachmann website, and used for wiring in the new Sound Board. I de-soldered each wire one-by-one from the original PCB, and re-soldered them onto the new sound board using the diagram as a guide. When I did a test run, it wouldn't move with either DCC or DC/Analog, only the headlight would light. I then de-soldered each wire to unwind it from the group to verify where it was from. Each wire was verified to be correct, but this is such a tiny sound board and the soldering is very tedious, I don't want to re-solder the wires without some instructions from Bachmann.
The reason I probably didn't hear any sound, is that I hadn't attached the little speaker to the inside of the cab.
BTW, the speaker/exciter that I bought was the number identified on that Bachmann parts diagram (and the one you provided by the parts link: 642XX-SPKR#10080). It also looks exactly like the one in my other On30 "Sound" Porter. I don't see any other parts listed for a "Sound Exciter".
Also there is + and - marked for the speaker terminals on the sound board, but no identification on the speaker/exciter as to which wire is + or -. When installing speakers on other Sound DCC decoders from SoundTraxx, it didn't seem to make a difference except when I connected two speakers together.
SoundTraxx decoders have color coded wires which makes installation a lot easier and less questionable.
I used a 220uf 25v capacitor (eCap) from SoundTraxx, as I didn't see one listed on the Bachmann parts list (and that was the size my other sound locomotives had).
Speaker polarity
Maintaining polarity between decoder and speaker is not necessary when using only one speaker. When installing two speakers you must observe polarity and wire in parallel.
ECap
220uf 25v capacitor is fine but observe polarity is a must.
Good luck with the troubleshooting.
Last I knew, it was in series. Seen the discussion in many other forums.
The capacitor is for sound stay alive.
richiy
Quote from: richiy on December 15, 2016, 10:55:17 AM
Last I knew, it was in series. Seen the discussion in many other forums.
. . .
richiy
Richiy,
SoundTraxx sound decoder amplifier is rated 8 ohms
Two 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel results in 4 ohm load on an 8 ohm amplifier.
Two 8 ohm speakers wired in series results in 16 ohm load on an 8 ohm amplifier.
The series load of 16 ohms will reduce power but the high frequencies will also be reduced.
SoundTraxx recommends when using two speakers with their sound decoders the speakers be wired in parallel .
an aside. . .
So
Rich you are posting using richiy with this return to the Bachmann Board. Just how many screen names and register usernames over the years have you used?
kovaks, Rich - richiy this time, who comes and goes is an old forum groupie claiming to visit dozens of forums, using different name of course. His usual answer to a question is use Google and save what you find in Favorites. :D
Ruh-roh.............someone's cover is blown.....lololol.
Sid
Hey Hunt, I'm kind'a new to DCC Sound decoders, and I really value your input. But Rich/richiy has a point. And now I'm really confused.
In reviewing my copy of SoundTraxx Tsunami installation instructions, if using two 8-ohm speakers, SoundTraxx recommends wiring speakers in series + to -. SoundTraxx Tsunami Installation Guide said: "When wired in series, the ohms of the speakers are essentially doubled, making 16 ohms. Note that larger numbers equal a lesser load, therefore 16 ohms is a lesser load than 8 ohms".
My SoundTraxx Econami Installation Guide also reads similarly, but referring to ohms as impedance.
Technically, it would be 8 ohms impedance for a speaker, since it's an inductive load, not a linear resistance like a resistor.
Len
kovaks,
Yes, I know what is in SoundTraxx Tsunami installation instructions. It takes into account the technical advances in speaker size required (and the speakers SoundTraxx sells) for model railroading and the SoundTraxx Tsunami decoder's amplifier capability.
Click Here (http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Tech_note%208.pdf) for another SoundTraxx document. It should help to confuse you more as may the following.
Some folks prefer to go cheap or do not know what they have making parallel wiring the better choice.
What it boils down to is decoder's load handling ability and the quality and technology of the speakers being used. If the speaker will work with the lower power without loss of frequency for it to sound right, then wiring two speakers in series is better than parallel.
The objective is to match the speaker impedance to the decoder amplifier's desired load producing the best sound.
Speaker impedance is its resistance to the current and voltage being applied to the speaker. Ohm is the SI derived unit of electrical resistance. I will let you do the research ;D
Your right Hunt, Now I'm really confused. I'll try to stick to just one speaker if I can. Although previously following the Soundtraxx Tsunami/Econami installation instructions, I wired two smaller 8-ohm speakers in series (because of space limitations) and had good sound reproduction.
Had you tested wiring parallel vs series you may or may not been able to notice any difference. If the components are compatible in either case it comes down to how well do you hear. Nevertheless, if it sounds good to you that is all that matters.
Funny you should mention hearing Hunt, After I got my hearing aids, I had to go back and re-balance all my Sound decoders.
I have belonged to the Yahoo SoundTraxx DCC group for some years and have seen discussions of speakers in series and parallel. A few have had a decoder run too hot when the speakers were in parallel. I think it had something to do with whatever SoundTraxx decoder that was being used.
The below fellow ran an online DCC company and has worked closely with SoundTraxx for some years. Scroll down a ways.
Take a lot of time and read through all the links. Try not to assume with DCC. Bruce is retired now and does a lot with DCC in the MRH forums.
http://mrdccu.com/curriculum/soundtraxx/tsunami.html
Edit, Bruce changed this link a little I believe.
http://mrdccu.com/curriculum/speakers.html
Store all links. You will need them.
Rich
Quote from: kovaks on December 15, 2016, 04:55:12 PM
Funny you should mention hearing Hunt, After I got my hearing aids, I had to go back and re-balance all my Sound decoders.
The problem for several people who had concluded their sound decoder had become defective was solved by replacing their hearing aid battery.