Hi all. Apparently these Spectrum locomotives are DCC ready.What exactly is DCC and what kind of modifications would this loco and tender need in order to make it work? I think that DCC stands for "Direct Command Control" and it allows for direct control of the sounds that the loco makes. Right now, it has constant speed synchronized chuff sounds and intermittent whistle and bell sounds. I would like to be able to control these last 2 sounds. How can I get it done and what will the approximate cost be?
Also, there is a small toggle switch on the bottom of the tender . What is this switch for?
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Andrew
Which locomotive model are you referring to?
Hi Flare. It's Bachmann item #81397. South Pacific Coast 4-4-0 Centennial. I read that it's supposed to be DCC ready, so I was just wondering about it.
Thanks!
Andrew
Ah, I don't have that one.
But looking at Bachmann's online manuals, I found wiring diagrams for DC and DCC mode: (It's the only 4-4-0 listed for Large Scale)
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/LS4-4-0DCWIRING.pdf
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/LS4-4-0DCCWIRING.pdf
It looks like the loco originally come with a proprietary decoder board for those who wished to install it, but I'm not seeing it available on the Parts page. :(
Being DCC ready means you will need to purchase a complete DCC system. A Decoder would have to include sound. Getting started can be expensive in that you would need the complete system. It would have to be suitable for Large scale.
It would be best for you to do some basic research on your own:
Start here: https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=model+train+dcc+systems&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002
Check the Wikipedia definition to get started, then check out the Digitrax system Or QSI to get an idea of what you will need. There are many brands of DCC systems. you could also check out the following:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/39-dcc-large-scale/65386-average-cost-install-dcc-decoder.html
To my knowledge, the 4-4-0 was never offered "DCC-ready," unless they did some minor updates when they released the Eureka & Palisades version a few years after the original 4-4-0 release. Those original 4-4-0s did not have anything that resembled "DCC-ready" accessibility. Most certainly, the 4-4-0 was never offered "DCC equipped." The only DCC-equipped locos from the factory were the 3-truck Shay and the 2nd-generation Climax. The updated 2-6-0 (the one that just came out) is--to my knowledge--the first of that class (the 4-4-0 and 2-6-0) to be available truly "DCC Ready" with an easily-accessible PC board which controls all the functions of the loco.
The wiring diagrams linked above appear to me to be different than what I found on the original 4-4-0. Specifically, the connections between engine and tender. There are 6 wires, a 2-wire plug for the chuff switch on the rear axle, and a 4-wire plug, which carries power from the tender forward to the loco as well as and power from the loco's lighting board back to the back-up light on the tender if it were so equipped. The wiring diagram doesn't show the wires going from the chuff switch on the rear axle to the tender (it shows the wires on the rear axle, but not where they go) and the 4-pin connector is weird. On the tender board, the wiring diagram shows the first two pins as being the left and right rails, and nothing on the right two pins. The connector going to it in the loco has the left rail and right rail on the outermost pins, and a speaker connection on the middle two pins. So, something's definitely wrong on that diagram. Also, if the chuff switch is wired from the rear axle to the tender (which it is), that presumes the sound system would be in the tender, along with the speaker (the opening for which is molded into the tender frame), so presumably there would be no reason for speaker wires to run between loco and tender.
My guess is that if your loco has sound already, it's probably got a Phoenix or similar board in the tender. If it's a Phoenix board, then the toggle switch would be the volume control for the sound. Check to see if it's a "center-off" toggle switch. If it is, it's likely the volume control. Depending on how the sound system is programmed, the bells and whistles will function at various voltages or changes in voltage. There may also be magnetic triggers which would be triggered off of magnets in the track. Look for magnetic reed switches probably mounted to the tender trucks if they're there.
With regard to converting the loco to full DCC, I would not describe the 4-4-0 as "plug and play" by any stretch of the imagination. In looking at the DCC wiring diagram Bachmann supplies, it looks like they're presuming a boiler-mounted decoder, but that would seem to preclude a any kind of sound-equipped decoder. (Why have the chuff contacts go back to the tender?) Most folks who have done DCC or R/C installs on the 4-4-0 opted for the "cut and gut" method. In terms of cost, I'd expect an install like that to be anywhere from $100 - $250 depending on what's involved and how you wand to do things. There are lots of options.
First, I'd recommend opening up the tender and having a look-see at what's inside of it. That'll help us figure out your best future course of action.
Later,
K
Thanks for all the replies guys! This sounds like it is way more complicated and potentially expensive than I hoped it might be. Drat! Oh well. I'll just have to "make do" and enjoy it as is. It's still pretty cool even without all the fancy stuff!
And,yes, the toggle switch on the tender is a center switch that goes both ways. I just don't know how to adjust the sound volume while it's running on the tracks. I guess that a person would need pretty quick hands to adjust the volume while the train is still running! LOL!
Thanks again for the help guys!
Andrew
Its really not all that expensive or complicated. The 4-4-0 is not very difficult to install a decoder in should you go that route.
From your message it would appear that you may already have a sound system in your tender which is clearly not stock.
I would recommend opening up your tender and figuring out exactly what is in there. A photo would help.
If it is a phoenix sound system you can change the volume while running using DCC (Digital Command Control) function keys.
Hope that helps.
Stan
Hi, Stan. I opened the tender and it it looks like it's probably stock to me. There is a little "Mickey Mouse " style soldering on a couple of the wires and a 6 volt rechargeable battery ( I'm wondering if it may need to be replaced if it's a factory installed battery- especially when one considers the probable age of this loco and tender to be somewhere between 11 and 17 years based upon a previous post that states that these were only manufactured between 2000 and 2006. Here's a link to a possible replacement battery that I found on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Sonic-Battery-PS-605-/111851461100?hash=item1a0addd9ec:g:MBMAAOSwQupXVwhC) but I don't think that it's an add-on sound system.
Here's a link to a youtube video I just posted that shows the sound system. I'm sorry that it's not the best quality!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmePX8sLHOg&feature=youtu.be
Let me know what you think.
Thanks again, Stan!
Andrew
It looks like a Phoenix Big Sound 96/97 board check out their site with a picture of your board and you should be able to get info from them.
http://www.phoenixsound.com/products/bs97.html
Steve
Andrew
That is clearly NOT a stock sound system and was not produced by Bachmann. The 4-4-0 also did not come from the factory with a speaker. The tender of your locomotive currently has a 1W speaker installed which is on the small size but should work OK as long as you do always run at full volume.
I think Steve is correct it is a Phoenix board and not a Sierra board as I first thought. You can download the manual from the phoenix site.
The battery is to allow sounds at low DC track voltages. Above 6 volts the battery is charged. Due to its age I suspect that the existing battery may not be functional.
Hope that Helps
Stan
Thanks for the info Stan and Steve! I've been in this hobby for over 12 years now and I've never obtained a loco with a user installed sound system before. This whole loco and tender is so cool. The detailing is just awesome. Much better than even the Anniversary Edition 4-6-0. I've been looking at the Phoenix website and I have to agree with both of you. Next step is to test the old battery and see if it's still holding a charge and if not, ordering a replacement. I found a similar battery on Ebay for $20.95 including shipping. I assume that the battery is a backup for the volume control? I'll look into this more thoroughly on my next day off,which is Thursday and see what the people at Phoenix Sound have to say.
Looks like I got a better bargain than I initially thought!LOL!
Thanks again guys!!
Andrew
Andrew in case you didn't see it on the Phoenix website, here is the manual.
http://www.phoenixsound.com/pdf/Steam97.pdf
Steve
Steve:
No. I didn't get that far yet. I did peruse their FAQ's section. Lots of good info there. I also took a quick look at their download section.I may just have to change the sound on this...LOL! Thank you for the link to the manual. That will definitely help me out a lot and save some time.
Andrew
It is definitely a better quality aftermarket Phoenix sound board with great capability. The 4-4-0's did not come with any kind of factory sound system installed. I am not sure, but it looks like a Phoenix either a Big Sound 97 or possibly a 2K2. Looking at the chips on the board I did not see a Loco identification, leading me to believe it is possibly the programmable 2K2 set up for the 4-4-0.
Hi Bill. I did some checking on the Phoenix website and I'm pretty sure that my card is a Phoenix BigSound 96/97. That's the only one they show that resembles the card that's in my tender. The 2k2 is almost totally dissimilar. I'm still waiting for Thursday to run her on my layout for the first time.
Can't wait!
Thanks for the reply!
Andrew
Hey guys! Figured out how to get the bell and whistle to sound more often. The answer was 4 round magnets hot glued to the ties and set at irregular intervals on the tracks. Seems to be working great to keep the bell going almost constantly, while the whistle sounds only once ion each revolution.Which is fine. Earlier, I determined that the whistle will also sound if the track voltage reaches 10 volts. This makes the loco "cannonball" as it is nearly full throttle. I can slow the loco down immediately while the whistle is sounding and then crank the power back up if I want to hear it sound again. There is also a steam blowing off and a braking sound. Pretty cool.
I also checked the battery for the sound card and ,after several hours of running, it was still flat. I don't know if it's really worth spending the $21.00 on or a replacement battery as the card works fine without it and the battery is only to backup the volume settings, which ,while it would be nice, is not really necessary.
You can check it out on my youtube channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-f6lGExlF0&feature=youtu.be
Thanks again for all of your help in identifying this sound card. These Phoenix sound cards are a real blast!
Andrew
If you did not get the manual, be sure to do so. There are many adjustments you can make including adjusting the voltage to control when the bell and whistle sound start and definitely below 10 volts.
If you noticed on the bottom of the tender there are two brown reed switches which get triggered by the magnet on the track. I think I saw them in line with one another, (this is why the bell turns on then the whistle blows one after the other). These get triggered by the magnet, first one passes over the magnet and triggers the bell, second one passes over the same magnet and triggers the whistle. If you moved the first reed switch to the right side of the tender and the second reed switch to the left side of the tender then used smaller magnets with one near the inside of the right rail and the other near the inside of the left rail you could have independent triggering of the bell and whistle and at different locations. Hope I explained this OK. Check out the manual for reed switch placement.
Steve