Hey Bach man,
I received my Jupiter and 119 yesterday, and already I have some things to tell you about the all new 4-4-0 Americans.
I noticed in the Bachmann store that Bachmann designers realized that B&O and Pennsylvania are eastern railroads and therefore their locos are coal burners, so the tenders on the B&O and Pennsy locos have coal loads. Apparently, they didn't know that in 1869 the Union Pacific was an eastern railroad, so they gave it a tender with a wood load. If there ever is another production run, please let the designers know that the 119 belonged to an eastern railroad and should have a coal load in its tender. Strange that the 119 has a smoke stack suitable for a coal burner but it has wood in its tender.
Both my Jupiter and my 119 have front couplers, and the coupler boxes take up the middle third of what should have been a beautiful pilot, or cowcatcher, so, the appearance of the fronts of all the all new 4-4-0 locos are ruined by a ridiculous front coupler when there could have been the elegant pilot that the locos actually had.
Just show them pictures of the replica 4-4-0 locos at the Golden Spike National Historic site and let them take it from there.
Ed Berners in South Bend, IN
Try the parts catalogue. They may have what you want.
Hi Trainman203,
Thanks for the suggestion.
On the tender assembly parts sheet that came with my loco the load is part of a casting that includes the whole top of the tender all the way down to the frame. I think I could get a B&O or a Pennsy part, but it would not be painted for the 119. I looked in the parts catalog using the part number shown on my parts sheet. That part number is used for 126 different Bachmann loco parts, and in the parts catalog none of them is a new 4-4-0 tender top. Puzzling, but that's what I found.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.
Just a few thoughts to ponder -
The U P started out in Council Bluffs, Iowa. The Pacific Railroad Act of 1862 provided for the construction of railroads from the Missouri River West to the Pacific Ocean. To me that's Midwestern, not Eastern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Railroad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Railroad)
As to the ridges on the roof of Bachmann's 4-4-0's, the only locos I could find with those ridges are V & T's #18 and #22. (I've done a lot of searching through books and on-line looking for locos with ridges.) It seems like I saw somewhere that they might have been where Bachmann came up with the original design for their 4-4-0. This cropped photo is from Larry Jensen's "HOLLYWOOD'S RAILROADS Volume One Virginia & Truckee" page 42. In this pic, they are dressed up for the movie "Whispering Smith". They both have ridged roofs like Bachmann's 4-4-0's (and also coal loads).
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33864836_10156384530010522_74199889365434368_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeHftQ_SyxikEBgy1EZ-LOSxf7hXd010fbGsCHfLk3qZ10meHPLfsHY42NORTSjgPHZiTbAmx72uD2EL-X0vtEGT28qUSHUVp8E_zrldOVzNiQ&oh=ad6b1dce14030fa43c4b9fa6cb82ae1a&oe=5BBDF6F2)
Also of note is that V & T's #22 (Inyo) was used as a stand-in for Jupiter from 1969 to 1979 at the Golden Spike Ceremony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_spike (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_spike)
As for the wood load, maybe they looked at the painting by Howard Fogg commissioned by the Union Pacific Railroad.
(http://streamlinermemories.info/UP/FoggGoldSpike.jpg)
I've been to the recreation ceremony and I never paid much attention at the time to what load #119 had.
In this original (cropped) photo from WESTWARD TO PROMONTORY (page 73) by Barry B. Combs, it looks like wood sticking out of 119's tender. This photo is from the actual ceremony.
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34016860_10156384480560522_2906523653329911808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEnXhAoNgxuRPt5xnJGVFR0ICfBdVSg5a05pHznPV_Eq42LPNEsVWWuBrgW-0gfMFTmqFsfCKHuYZ4hWCw38qUE2RmJ3xc_5o6pep0itkbQvg&oh=a3a5c27b4ed6237a8d5e5b79b630aaf3&oe=5BBD2B18)
Bachmann is using the same 4-4-0 for a number of different road names so you can't really expect it to be identical to any specific loco.
The Bachmann 4-4-0's are representations of the V&T 4-4-0's and not the earlier locomotives.
Harold
Harold - I'm pretty sure that it was you that I heard that from.
Compared to plan of the V&T 4-4-0's from Model Railroader:
(http://www.chainsawjunction.com/image/vt_plan1.jpg)
(http://www.chainsawjunction.com/image/vt_plan2.jpg)
A typical state of the art locomotive from the early 1870's about 5% bigger than the Promontory locos.
Excuse the blurry locomotive
Harold
4-4-0's were called "American Standard " for a reason. For many years , until other wheel arrangements evolved, they were remarkably similar to each other.
I just wonder how they get water in the tender.
Quote from: RAM on May 31, 2018, 12:04:17 PM
I just wonder how they get water in the tender.
If you look closely the water hatches are barely visible.
In the case of woodburners the fuel was consumed faster than the water.
The oil bunker on the 22 is visible.
Harold
One summer, my wife and I drove up to Council Bluffs (We live just South of St. Louis). We followed the route of the Transcontinental Railroad (as best we could) to Sacramento. It was a neat thing to do. One year, we tried to follow the Oregon Trail. We went as far as Boise, Idaho and ran out of time and money and had to head back home. On these trips, we would just take our time and only drive a couple hundred miles a day and stop and see a lot of stuff along the way. I visited a lot of old forts along the way, too, because I was going to build a fort on my HO layout.
I have a lot of footage on VCR tape and I don't have a VCR anymore. I keep meaning to buy one of those combos to transfer it over to DVD. I also have a bunch of pics stashed away in the garage. I should hire someone to put it all on DVD for me.
Terry, try a local flea market or pawn shop for a VCR.
Somewhat of an aside,
Click Here (https://youtu.be/QuE22ZCqlRw?t=34m51s) for video segment.
Did you get it with sound? I love mine with sound. When I run it at the club for open houses. There goes all the 40 to 50 (actually we have a show siding limit of 30 cars but you get the idea) car and there goes my little 4-4-0 with it Passenger cars.I love the looks, especially when they hear the sound. I am very proud the steam engines that Bachmann has done.
BB - I ordered a used DVD/VCR combo today off Ebay so I can dub my VCR tapes onto DVD. After I got to thinking about it, I decided to ahead and do it. I've been going to get one of those for a long time and just never got around to it.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the comments and history.
I take back my description of the front couplers on the Jupiter and 119 as ridiculous. It might well be that the real locos had front couplers at some time during their lives. I still think that although these couplers must be fully operational, they are ugly on these locos
On the Bachmann Jupiter and 119 tenders, at the rear, there is a molded-on cover for a port for taking on water.
I was using "eastern" for "where there is no wood." I don't think that Omaha would be considered eastern by an Easterner.
My pictures of the replica 119, taken from ground level, don't show what is loaded into the tender.
Ed
They more often had link and pin (the "coupler" of the day) compatible drawbars on the big early "cowcatcher ", folded down. My own opinion is that large rakish "cowcatchers" were slowly phased away as 1. The US became more settled and fenced and 2. Frequent switching needs made the need for general coupler installation on pilots apparent.
Spoked pilots resembling greatly scaled down cowcatchers persisted until the end of steam in the US. 1. I Wonder why and 2. I Am glad they did, because to my American eye, few things look more peculiar than a steam engine with raw shiny wheels under a pilot-free pilot beam.
Early cowcatchers were mainly used to sweep obstructions from the front of the engine OR to keep the engine from going up and over an obstruction, as the plow end would tend to dig into the object, like a boulder. Kind of like the anti-climber over the knuckle of a diesel engine. A buckled front end was usually easier to deal with and less expensive to repair/replace than a bend somewhere mid-frame.
Trainman 203: I would like to replace the tender coupler with link and pin, just for the fun of seeing it there. I don't know if my Jupiter and 119 will ever pull rolling stock, but you never know. I bought them to be the main interest on a small portable layout that will be a much compressed version of the Golden Spike National Historic Site. Using Atlas code 83, the wye will occupy a 4' by 3' main section of Homasote, and there will be three 1' wide extensions for the place where (1) 119 waits for the reenactment to start, just a short section of straight, (2) the place where Jupiter waits and the golden spike site, and (3) the double track inside an engine house and another small building to hold the reverser. Overall, about 9' by 5', so it could be set up on a ping pong table. And, in pieces, it will fit in the backseat of my car so I can take it to set up at three of my four kids' houses. The fourth of my kids is 2000 miles away, too far to drive by myself. Hoping to start next week.
I could remove the front coupler itself, but I don't know if I'm up to replacing the coupler box with spokes and getting the right color of paint. I will find out.
bbmiroku: Let's not go up and over!
I'd like to see pictures once you get it built. It sounds like a neat idea. I've kicked around the idea of making a reenactment diorama but never did and don't think I will because I got rid of most of my HO stuff and moved to On30.
I would post the plan of my golden spike layout but I don't know how to paste in anything. I can get it into my clipboard but I can't paste it, at least Ctrl-V will not do it.
A replication of the Promontory ceremony would really look good with code 55 track.
The easiest way to post a picture would be first to upload it to a photo sight, like photobucket, facebook, deviantart, etc.
Then copy the link of just the photo* into a message, highlight it, and then up in the choices click on the picture icon.
It should look something like this, but without the spaces:
[img ]http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_John_Bull.jpg[/ img]
And without the spaces, it gets formatted like this:
(http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_John_Bull.jpg)
*upload, go to the page for the image, right-click and choose view image, copy url
Thanks -- I will look into that --
Well, I found out that I can't upload a drawing. The file has to have a photo extension. Maybe I will take a photo of my drawing.
I'm still learning about the 4-4-0 replicas. Pictures of the pilots of the locos show a hinged bar that is attached to the top center of the pilot and the other end rests on the bottom frame. The outer end has a slot that I suppose could accept a pin.
Someday I will try to modify my Bachmann versions accordingly. I wonder what the paint colors are -- well, I'm a long way from that problem.
While restoring the William Mason, the B&O found that instead of sandblasting (or sanding) and repainting, a new layer of paint would just be slathered on over the previous one. In fact, they found what was probably the same color as the original paint and tried to match it. So as far as a single case of a single engine, the pint scheme it has now is fairly true to the original.
That being said, I believe the History Channel has an immense archive of photos from Back In The Day, and they are in the process of colorizing some of them. So take a look and you might find what you need.
Model Railroad News has an article (July 2018) about the new Bachmann 4-4-0 and compares it to the old 4-4-0 and has a short tangent on the history of the 4-4-0 as an engine type.
Hello everyone. Thanks for all the comments, history, photos and more.
I just spent an hour putting together a post on what has been happening with me and trying to get the link from photobucket for a photo of my proposed working diorama layout (I couldn't copy the link). When I was ready to post, I clicked on Review and the forum said, "Welcome guest". All I had typed in is gone. Talk to you later.
Hello everyone,
I have another thread going that started out to be about the electrical wipers on the tender axles in the new 4-4-0s. In that thread I said, "When my locos first arrived, I was complaining about the details, and the trouble was I was fixated on the replicas at the Golden Spike site while Bachmann was trying to make some beautiful models of many different 4-4-0s. Well, Bachmann succeeded, and I love my Jupiter and 119. I think the sound is better than the sound that I heard in the video (which may have been distorted in the process.) In the Bachmann locos, the bell has a pure, clean ring to it, the whistle sounds like steam, especially the way it turns off, and the chuff makes me think that there is a real one just outside my window."
Just so you know.
I just posted this in a different thread.
Here's footage of them stationary and in loco motion. At about 11:10 in this video, you can see wood sticking up in 119's tender as she goes by.
https://youtu.be/5664eYlGO_Y (https://youtu.be/5664eYlGO_Y)
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39969530_10156604058515522_1089896428655869952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a09055a37e69b26b40f2bdd0f4890198&oe=5C371088)
For couple pockets, go to the Precision Scale site and see what they have.
Some years ago I bought a brass casting for my bashed 0-8-0 HO Winans Camel loco pilot. I flattened a piece of brass wire and carefully drilled tiny holes in each end to make a link for a pusher bar. I used common sewing pins.
Many years ago Alexander Scale models sold a link and pin set supposedly for HO scale but it was at least S scale. I had a few sets. The brass pin scaled at almost three feet long. The casting for the car was huge. Even then, running link and pin was a real pain and very easy to lose the pins and links which were over size. I really do not thing you would like to do this.
Which I still had my photos from Photo Bucket.
https://www.precisionscaleco.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/HO-Steam-WOP.pdf
You would have to call them or check Walther's for stock. I use to order from them via phone but they have moved.
Rich