I just received my new Bachmann item 52202 52" 4-6-0, and I am preparing to install an 8-pin decoder. It does not run on DC, which I presume is correct.
There are no instructions on how to install the decoder, or how to disassemble the tender.
How do I disassemble the tender to access the decoder connection?
Thank you.
I have a couple 4-6-0's. There should be a couple screws under the front of the tender. Been some years.
Mine came with the DC adapters in the box.
Cut the caps. Marked with a C.
What looks like green resistors are inductors. No resistance. Marked with an L. Moot point with no caps.
With a good decoder, Back Emf is affected by caps and inductors together.
Rich
That is not correct. You bought a new loco ---it must run on something. It is DCC ready but should operate on DC until you change it over to DCC with the decoder install. There should be a jump plug on the circuit board in the tender which allows the loco to run on DC. When you change over to DCC that jumper is removed and the decoder plugs in there.
graywolf
Mine came with decoders and adapters in the box. Mine ran on DCC. I never ran them on DC.
Rich
Look at diagram. 2 screws 10489 X2 should be removed to get the shell of. On front of tender. Joe
https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HOBALDWIN4-6-0(DCCREADY).3.pdf
Thanks for all of the responses. There is no jumper in the box. I'll open the tender to see what's inside...hopefully no jumper, which would explain why it does not run. I'll post my findings later today.
If you are having difficulty getting the tender open, maybe a paid tech should do the install.
The tender opened easily, and there is an eight-pin jumper installed. I checked it for continuity, and it is OK. The locomotive is therefore faulty, and I have ordered an exchange from the retailer.
Thanks again to all for your advice.
Good point.
I found the tenders easy to open.
A DZ126PS is a good small decoder with a plug and a short harness. Good for one amp.
TCS has a better decoder with a plug. Do not remember the number though. Check their site.
Ricvh
Good idea, about flawed new models. Use the warranty. Punt.
I'm going to use an XL 0001911 decoder which includes sound. I test-fitted it when I had the tender open, and it appears to fit. The XL unit includes a thin 18mm speaker, which fits under the existing circuit board.
I've converted seven old diesel locos using XL 0001611 sound decoders. I have six more (equally old) which I'm going to covert to DCC. None of them are DCC ready. At $29 per decoder (including speaker) they are a great buy. The included speaker is of mediocre quality, so I use MRC 1519 speakers for better sound. The 1611 has a choice of six prime mover sounds which allow me to select the correct prime mover for each locomotive.
Nice to see you have the experience. You should do ok. Nice to experiment.
Rich
Who makes the XL decoders?
Quote from: graywolf on April 08, 2020, 07:51:18 AM
Who makes the XL decoders?
These folks:
http://xlsystemsdcc.com/product-category/ho-scale/
Len
I just looked at the XL site and am intrigued by what they have and the functionality they describe. I have a Bachmann GP38-2 sound value which I paid $92 for and was thinking of changing the decoder. But since the engine didn't cost much I was reluctant to install a Soundtrax decoder that cost as much as the engine. What experiences have you had with the XL and how would you compare it with the Bachmann sound value? Also looking at the model 1915 for this engine.
XL are the old MRC decoders. Numbering system even matches MRC's.
I have used the 1911s and an older 16xx series for years, with zero problems. No reason these should be any different.
Sid
XL makes the MRC decoders, as well as selling direct. You can hear a sound sample for the EMD645 used in the GP38-2, and other locos, here: https://www.modelrectifier.com/Articles.asp?ID=264
Len
Thanks for the clarification, Len.
Sid
Thanks Len the sound of the 645 sounds more robust than the sound coming from the Sound Value decoder. XL mentioned that you have to add 650 - 1000 ohm resistors for the lights in the engine. Any thoughts where to get them since Radio Shack is no longer? Also does it matter which leg of the diode to put it on?
I usually get resistors and such from Mouser or Digi-Key. An on-line search will bring up lots of places to get them. And it really doesn't matter which leg the resistor is on.
Len
These look like Chinese knock offs of the MRC decoders. You get what you pay for. Joe
If some are happy with them, I would not argue with them.
Some do not like SoundTraxx and are very vocal about it.
c
rICH
Quote from: bapguy on April 08, 2020, 10:13:04 PM
These look like Chinese knock offs of the MRC decoders. You get what you pay for. Joe
XL has made the MRC decoders for years, they have recently decided to also start selling direct to consumers.
Len
The seven XL 1611's I have in service sound great and work perfectly. The sound is far better than the one SoundTraxx in my fleet. I have eight more 1611's arriving in today's mail to support my DCC conversion project.
The only complaint I have is that the 1611's I received have a pigtailed resistor and condenser (?) hanging from the decoder board. That feature makes installation more difficult.
The single XL 1911 that I have in my inventory doesn't have any dangling components. I also ordered some XL 1910's, which have the 8-pin plug integral to the circuit board. The 1910's also did not have any dangling components.
Hi Len, I found some 680 ohm resistors that are 1/4 w, 1/2w & 1w. What should I use? Also I am fan of Soundtrax but I don't think it wise to install a decoder that cost more than the engine. All I am looking for is some more features and sound options than what you get with Sound Value. Has anyone have actual experience using the XL decoders in a Bachmann diesel?
I pretty much use 1/4 watt resistors, mainly because I have a ton of them laying around from when I used to do a lot of 'breadboarding' of different circuits. A lot of folks use 1/8 watt with no problems. The 1/2 watt, or larger, resistors are really overkill.
Len
I've used the XL's in Kato, Proto 1000 and 2000, and Athearn non-DCC-ready diesels. I haven't done any Bachmann loco's, but I don't see why the approach would be any different. You have to wire to both rail pickups, both motor brush terminals and lights. There a lot's of YouTube videos available to provide guidance.
Wasn't Mantua using these decoders in their sound equipped locos before they vanished?
I have 1911s in service and they work very well for my steamers. No reason their diesel decoders should be of lesser quality.
Sid
Thanks ALL for all your help. I guess I will take the plunge and let you know the result.
Quote from: WoundedBear on April 09, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Wasn't Mantua using these decoders in their sound equipped locos before they vanished?
Mantua didn't exactly disappear. At one point it was acquired by Model Power and distributed by MRC. In 2018 Model Power and Mantua tooling was purchased by Lionel, allowing them to get back into the HO market under the 'Lionel' name. There hasn't been a lot of new items available since then.
Len
Radio Shack is still around on line. Joe
https://www.radioshack.com/
And meny Hobbytown USA stores carry Radio Shack products.
Tom
I've built a big inventory of electronic hardware to support my DCC, lighting and animation projects. I've got resistors, capacitors, diodes, led lights and a wide assortment of other bits. I've ordered most of it from AliExpress. The quality is excellent, prices are very good and delivery is generally free. The only downside is delivery time. Most items are shipped from China, and can take anywhere from a week to a month.
Here's an example of a resistor assortment - 2600 pieces for $12, including a storage box. I have this kit, and I've used it for dozens of projects.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836787997.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1fcc356206ua0q&algo_pvid=e86941e4-074e-47a9-a129-ade5a2350ba5&algo_expid=e86941e4-074e-47a9-a129-ade5a2350ba5-0&btsid=0ab6f8ad15868617931153205e9eb4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
You can find all the same material on Amazon and get faster delivery, but the price will higher by a factor of three or four times.
I received the XL decoder today and noticed that the included 18mm speaker is glued directly on the bottom of the PC board. I was planning to use the existing speaker that is installed in the engine. As of right now I have not opened the engine to see how it all is going to fit. Before doing this I was going to video record the operation of the engine so that I have something to compare to once I make the change over. Just as a thought would you think it wise to try to run both speakers if I were to hook up the existing speaker in parallel to the new speaker? Just to be clear I believe that the speaker wires should be connected to the same positions as the new speaker to be in parallel??
If you wire the speakers in parallel you'll be reducing the load impedance seen by the sound board. If both speakers are 8 ohm then the board will see a 4 ohm load. If they are diffent impedances the value will fall somewhere in between. There are on line calculators that can tell you exactly if you have the seperate speaker impedances.
Make sure whatever value the parallel hook up results in, it's within the load specs of the decoder.
Len
Thanks Len, would the better choice be to wire them in series? Before that happens I will try the speaker XL supplied and if it sounds good I will leave it at that.
Briefly the XL decoder is a piece of junk. Wired it in with the supplied speaker. On the program track with my Powercab the squeal from the speaker and the hum from the motor was terrible. The engine would not move until I brought the speed contol up to about 60. Engine sound was phony. I checked the CV's 2,3,4,5 and found them set at 255. I brought them to the default numbers noted in the instructions and the operation was the same as when I started. At a speed setting of 75 the engine just crawled along still squealing and humming. Put the Sound Value back in and learned my lesson ---wasted $34.
Like someone said, you get what you pay for. Found it in Merriam-Webster.
I never heard of anything that bad. Really sorry you had to go through that. I was sure wrong.
Rich
I've received my replacement 4-6-0. I attached the XL 1911, and tested the unit. The loco runs well and the sounds great. The chuff was synchronized right out of the box. As I noted above, the included 18mm speaker is not the best, and I was able to much improve the sound by using an MRC speaker.
Unfortunately, there is no way to fit the XL 1911 in the tender. Bachmann provides very little room for a decoder, and placed the 8 pin connector in the worst possible place, in the center of the circuit board. My measurements indicate that I'll need a decoder which fits within a 1" x 0.5 " x 0.25" space. Digitrax has an SD166D decoder and claims it will fit the Bachmann 4-6-0, but my measurements indicate that it's too big.
XL has an N-scale steam decoder model 1961. They claim it's the "worlds smalled N-sale steam sound decoder". Is there any reason this would not work for the HO 4-6-0?
I thought you said the XL was no good? A previous message.
I have the large driver version with onboard sound and it has the DCC ready PC board with a stripped down sound decoder that is the same size PC board and a seven wire harness that plugs into the DCC ready PC board. Spectrum model.
Rich
I have installed eight XL decoders and they all function perfectly. All they need is a better speaker than the one supplied by XL.
The comment someone made about a bad XL may be related to a faulty installation.
Do you have the part number for the sound decoder?
No. It was made by SoundTraxx for Bachmann. The tender was bigger than yours. Bachmann or SoundTraxx does not supply this decoder. It only came with onboard locos.
I have your loco and I put a Tsunami micro in it with a speaker firing ip through the coal load. I drilled tiny holes in the coal load. Painted thin white glue on the coal load and sprinkled coal dust on it. I stripped everything. Got the idea some years ago from a fellow online who is gone.
I like the idea for the coal load. I'll do the same with my installation.
I made a dummy for the XL 1961 decoder, and it fit the tender nicely. The dimensions are very close to the Tsunami micro.
I'm going to order the 1961 for my loco.
Hi Dcclocoman, I am not ready to accept your conclusion that I did a faulty install on the XL decoder. The engine moved when placed on the programing track, it was just a poor operation. Even setting the CV's to the default settings it still functioned poorly. After reinstalling the Sound Value decoder the engine worked as it did before. So therefore I think I know what I doing. Just accept the fact that the XL was a poor example and maybe I just got a bad one. Hope yours are better.
I've done eight conversions with XL units and they all worked perfectly. Sounds like you are due a replacement decoder.
Thanks you might be right. But I will treat it as a lesson learned and stick with factory installed in the engines I purchase. Thanks again.