Hi folks, I need some help re. making an N scale layout into HO. I found a 1995 MR magazine that has a very interesting Nn3 layout that is 18"x36". I am trying to determine what the ratio would be to convert it to HO. I know you can't double it. The layout is a mining scene which has a 6%max grade. What can climb that or would I have to somehow tame that down? If there is interest I will try to photograph it and post or if anyone has some old MR mags it is in the 1995 Great Model RR special edition. Thanks, Paul
You could use a layout planning software, like "AnyRail" to do the track plan in HO, which would give you a rough idea what the size would be.
A 6% grade is really pushing it. But it would be in the upper range of possible on straight track for some prototype Shay geared locomotives pulling up to 200 tons that could make it up 1 in 14 (7%) grades. As curves are added, or got sharper, the amount of slope that could be handled went down. This is due to the increased friction put on the drive wheels by the curves.
If keeping the same track plan, reducing the slope of the grade will increase the length of the layout.
Len
It would be cool to see a pic of it.
There are some pics of Shay's on 1 in 20 (5%) grades, and text references to the 1 in 14 (7%) grades here:
https://railwaywondersoftheworld.com/shay-locomotive.html
There's a link to a pic of a Shay with some logging buggies that is claimed to be on a 12% grade here:
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/shay.Html
This is the pic:
(http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/shay06.jpg)
I have my doubts that's actually a 12% grade, as the max I've ever seen mentioned in prototype grade specifications is 1 in 14 (7%).
Len
Paul,
Build a temporary length of track where you can vary the grade to determine what your trains can negotiate.
photo
(https://media.fotki.com/2v2HkbVo3x6f34f.jpg)
the actual layout
(https://media.fotki.com/2v2HkbVKFx6f34f.jpg)
more views
(https://media.fotki.com/2v2HkbVH5x6f34f.jpg)
last photo
(https://media.fotki.com/2v2HkbVc5x6f34f.jpg)
Multiply N scale dimension by 1.837 to convert to HO scale.
Suggest instead of doing all the multiplications use AnyRail, Start with the free version.
Click Here (https://www.anyrail.com/en) AnyRail
You said the layout is 18" by 36"
You should be able to build an HO version on a 4x8 with room to spare. Looking over the plan, you'd be able to increase the curves to 18r minimum, which should greatly improve its functionality. You'd probably be able to decrease the grade to around 4% as well.
My memory says N = 1/160 and HO = 1/87.5.
If so, 160 / 87.5 = 1.828. Correct my initial assumption if need be.
Those numbers work in that conversion, but based on that the 18X36 layout would endup being 33X66 and I know that would not work with HO. You may be able to fit it on a 4X8 but that would be a squeeze. I aim for gentle corner radii not looking for making it work with 18"radius. I would probably draw it out on a decent size piece of paper and then cut the paper into 1/4 pieces and put the pieces in the corners of a drawing that was scaled to the 13X9 foot area I have to build in and then connect the corners with track blending it to look decent.
Quote from: Trainman203 on July 17, 2020, 03:37:35 PM
My memory says N = 1/160 and HO = 1/87.5.
If so, 160 / 87.5 = 1.828. Correct my initial assumption if need be.
HO = 1:87.1
Click Here (https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/S-1.2%202009.07.pdf) NMRA STANDARDS, S-1.2 Standards for Scale Models
So what radius exactly are you looking to use? Keep in mind the way that layout is designed you will need to access it on three sides. Fooling around with the plan in anyrail, you can get the grades down to 3% on a 4x8 with 18r. In your 9x13 space, you'd be able to have a 30" aisle all around the layout, Any larger than that, and you won't be able to squeeze into the places you'll need to go.
On my current layout most radii range from 27 to 32 with only one short area down to 23". The plan when you 1/4 a layout leaves you with a work area in the middle so that the layout becomes basically around the walls. Therefore access is quite good and I can use the whole 9X13 space allocated. The room itself is larger and the way I have it setup you can access two sides of the layout from both sides. The layout is tight into a corner of the room only. My first layout was started as a 4x8 which I expanded to 4.5 x9 so that it didn't look like the trains were going to run off the table edge since I used 22" radius tracks with 3" straights between the curves giving you 47" on the ends. The ratio 1.837 to go from N-HO is not universally able to work period. An example would be that HO is 1/87 scale there fore your 1.5lb engine should be 130.5 lbs if you scaled it to real life when we know that real engines weight just a little more.
If you scaled up the original ;plan by multiplying the dimensions by 1.8 you'd wind up with 12r curves and 6% grades. That is unworkable for HO.
If you quarter the plan and turn it into an around the walls layout you will have two problems.
First, the reversing loop on the lower level pretty much has to stay intact. That means no matter what you do you are still going to have one area with sharp curves.
The second and more problematic is that you are going to either have a duckunder or a lift bridge so you can get into the room. If you opt for the lift bridge, an idea that looks good on paper, you are going to have to find a way to ensure that every time the bridge is moved, when you put it back in place the rails align perfectly. Otherwise it is going to be a constant source of derailments that will frustrate you to the point you will regret ever designing the layout.
There are far better options out there.
Thanks Jward I hadn't noticed the reverse loop. That would certainly dictate a solid platform instead of around the walls. So I guess I will see what can be done with a large flat layout with access from all sides so things can be reached. I may look at a removable popup area in the middle by the Ore House and access from under the mountain. Challenges are what it all about right?