Hello everyone, first time posting here. I am fairly new (6 months) to the hobby. I currently have 2 trainsets: Bachmann's Rail Chief and an MTH R21 subway set (4 cars). I built my track layout as shown here:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fife/ABSRlIrSW5L371yuXt-9O0N3LX50QLn2OxyYVBmX4BOr_KCqPRADbB0U44KFhWwZJSEE30EjJ3V-lKy2vB794X5NaFlP5rNC6LMMMyj0GqpFpKh_H9h_LVV9c7740Odo9d4UXi4AI-nRQncokTdvBiLI1-nlsMvY7eaQ7H4HSL4Kp2eEk-3TxgFoTpxxnTA918f7NDYrtCszbrqhEQ3E6EiB1KiPZvA-9plqCHQR2zxCeX7cBxBAX8I78lKkSNqiSXup0AutJ1pgmYBueQmQcgxI5wD_rChFB3c9R2k7VcADqkq5LZC0IEAZ0BlUFdiCL4fhREhHDEQrkSOsQc6opAPTks7j-X57LQ9zMfpTtYo4h6va4E3___pkgCoxNetjN8NrBf6p8UAeOtzJ4YH8ytMf0DiUvvka6QLdPShGsaeRiu9_Kawgswh6juhnSqUnSI6JQJisSHHx59UU3xioOkgdAMl5McoR-9u80rqRIKq0BoUSM0iuxGhvwd28jd6tsOoEId8g4ZIee5_2gLp7FLw3MgtZ_0rIfX7uMI_ur7EofU_FtzHutwbKmXQyCPL5YeOejmHB1_oLa_TVf304YHKWIlSVbFmSS_ip1DFTrDTt9ySohE2sM3Lrf_nUfH-f6js_XpXQdxw5KHh3q4TYi5Do1OkRYgWs5WclJvb71p3S5QEFiKo4JsDIlszIAZniPC3jvRfzPVLcIo4BJc7yEWD0qiFMWLtLdkyGiYg0Og=s1100-w1100-h750-no?authuser=0)
This layout is an extension of the well-known layout consisting of an oval superimposed with a figure-8 reverse loop. In order to avoid shorting out the layout, I've isolated the crossover (green) from the main line (gray), so right now trains can only run on the main line. I'm using the DC controller that came with the Rail Chief set, and run one train at a time (either the locomotive or the powered subway car is removed from the track, and any unused non-powered cars are parked inside the crossover). I recently got Bachmann's auto-reverse module (#44912), which according to some sources "eliminates the complicated wiring previously needed to operate analog (DC) reverse-loop track layouts" (https://www.walthers.com/automatic-reversing-loop-module-e-z-command), despite being labelled DCC. The wires that came with it have plastic connectors on both ends, designed to connect to track #44597 which I don't have. So instead I tried connecting the module to some unused wires that originally came with the turnouts:
(https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/AllScale_parts/BAC00002-B.JPG)
I connected the turnout at the main line to the Input end of the module, and connected the Output end to the crossover, but that didn't work (the indicator light on the module switched on, but the train would still stop at the end of the turnout).
My main questions are:
1) Can module #44912 be used on a DC layout, and if so, how should it be connected to my layout (since my layout consists of a double crossover, I would need more than one of those, but I started with one for now to make sure it would actually work)?
2) If I would need to switch to a DCC system (which would be better because I could control both trains independently), how would I assign which train is controlled by which button on the controller (#1, #2, etc)? The MTH subway set is specified as DCC-ready, but I'm not sure if the Rail Chief set is DCC-compatible.
Put that link between this: (//)
Just copy and paste the bracketed text, then we will be able to view that picture.
The Rail Chief is not DCC compatible, so there's a problem. However, you would still be able to run it using the DCC controller, it would just be preset 10 i believe (button #10). The subway set would be #1, and everything after that would be 2,3,4,5,6, etc. etc.
I believe that there is a way you can re-assign locos to different numbers, but I don't know how.
I also don't know if you can use that track module on the DC track, so someone else might say something different.
Hope that first part helps!
-Quentin
H5subway - . You can't post photos directly to the forum here. You have to upload your photo to a separate site site like Flicker.
Once you upload a photo to a site, open it up and right click on it. Click "copy image location" from the menu that comes up.
Then click the "image" tag in the box above the message area when you are typing your message. Paste the "image location" that you copied between the two image tags.
Like this but without the spaces: [ img ] image location [ /img ]o
Generally DCC Ready means it is ready to accept a decoder and has a socket to plug in the decoder. You still have to buy the decoder in addition to the DCC system to control it.
Quote from: Terry Toenges on October 24, 2020, 01:07:26 AM
Generally DCC Ready means it is ready to accept a decoder and has a socket to plug in the decoder. You still have to buy the decoder in addition to the DCC system to control it.
This is very true, should've read more carefully lol.
Quentin
iHi H5subway. Welcome.
With new users, DCC will be an issue. Hang in there.
If you have the EZ Command, you cannot modify CV's. You will need a better controller. You can run trains ok and do quite a lot though.
As said, you need a photo hosting site. There are a number of free ones.
Rich
My goodness, you don't need one of those photo hosting sites! I don't have one, and I can post this!
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.1Zmzxm4440lzSSdhTWcA-wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Is that a picture you loaded up to the internet using DuckDuckGo? I'm trying to figure out how to use it to load a pic of mine. I just use Facebook now.
When you look at image info on your pic it shows the DuckDuckGo address:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.1Zmzxm4440lzSSdhTWcA-wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1
Thanks Terry.
I never saw that in his posting. Nice to know.
Rich
I see now Quentin. It was copied off of another website. It was already on the internet and you didn't upload it yourself. There are a few sites with that pic.
It's not the same as uploading your own pictures to a site. Show us one of your own pics that you uploaded somewhere and how you did it.
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/aar-intermodal-likely-to-see-earliest-coronavirus-impacts/ (https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/aar-intermodal-likely-to-see-earliest-coronavirus-impacts/)
http://reporterlogistics.com/rail-freight-services.php (http://reporterlogistics.com/rail-freight-services.php)
https://www.supplychain247.com/article/the_state_of_rail_intermodal/rail (https://www.supplychain247.com/article/the_state_of_rail_intermodal/rail)
(https://www.railwayage.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/NS-Intermodal-Train.jpg)
I literally searched up (on duckduckgo, yes) "intermodal train" and this was one of the first that pulled up. Copy image link, then put between the "(http://)". Works every time for me.
If you have a problem with that, I am more than happy to stop. I don't want to start anything.
-Quentin
I'm don't want to start anything either. It's just that you missed the whole point of the conversation. I was trying to tell him how to upload his own picture to the internet. His pictures aren't on the internet. The picture has to be on the internet in order for him to copy and paste the address between the brackets. You are telling him wrong.
Just like you were wrong in telling the guy about the three prong plug. They have different voltages over there. He can't just go buy an adaptor plug. He needs something that will change the voltage, too.
It's great that you try to help but try to make sure that you are providing the correct information when you do. Sometimes, you post comments to people's questions and it seems like you don't know what you are talking about. I know you are young. Take time to learn about something before you try to answer someone's question. Google is your friend.
With your enthusiasm, in a few years you will be one of the most knowledgeable people on here if you just take the time to do a little research and learn.
I can tell as well.
I've been trying to get rid of the habit of just rushing to answer a question that I know (at least part) of the answer to. There's where I try to always ask the person to check my answer before they do anything.
As for the British plug guy,
I've never been to the UK. I didn't know that they had different voltages. All I knew is that they had different plug sockets. Well, there's where common sense can kick in... if there's different sockets, then there is probably a different voltage...
Gotta love the teenage mind. Never fails to be completely stupid! ;)
And I have used Google (well, now DuckDuckGo, because it's supposed to be safer or something) to search answers. And others I know the answer by heart. My great-grandfather was an engineer for the U.P.R.R. and an engineer for the community. He had a massive public layout (like, covers the entire floor of a small gym type massive, cost about 3k back when it was built, costs about 7k now with all the locos, consists, landscaping, and wiring), and when it got (partially) destroyed by a flood, I was the one who got to learn how to rebuild it from Google and books. That's why I know a lot about some other things that people ask questions about.
I will take your advice. Thank you for it.
-Q
I'm sure that layout would have been something to see.
I didn't automatically know about the electricity overseas. I knew it was different so I spent a good deal of time researching it to figure out what he needed and then looked for those things before I posted about it.
Thank you everyone for your replies. I've uploaded my track layout diagram to my Google photos, and embedded the link in my original post. It shows up for me when I'm logged in, but not always when I'm logged out (it didn't yesterday but it does today), so hopefully others who view this thread can see it too. When purchasing the auto-reverser I was aware that the worst thing that could happen is that I would be throwing over $100 out the window if it didn't work for my layout, so before I purchase another one, or a DCC controller, I want to be 100% sure that it would work. I'm curious as to how the DCC controller can automatically assign #1 to the first DCC-ready train (and whether it would do the same thing if it were another DCC-ready train, or whether it would automatically assign a different number), and #10 to a non-DCC train. If the auto-reverser won't work for my layout, I would consider using a manual DPDT switch, but again I would need to be sure that it would work, and how to install it, before buying it.
H5Subway - I apologize for getting sidetracked with your thread. I'm sure someone with better DCC knowledge can answer your questions.
DCC autoreversers only work for DCC.
DCC decoder addresses are not assigned by the controller, they are programmed in by the user with address 3 being the factory default in most cases.
From your original post it appears neither of your sets is actually DCC. You would need to add a decoder to run them with DCC. You would also need a DCC command station, which apparently you don't have. This is a good thing, as you can look for a full featured entry level set (They run under $250) that is capable of not only running your train but programming them as well. Avoid those sets that will only run the trains and change the decoder address, they cost almost as much as one that will do everything.
I could help you with your layout wiring if only i could see your plan.
To the OP. A picture is worth a thousand words I learned many years ago. Solves issues faster.
Please sign your name. It is appropriate.
Rich
Quote from: rich1998 on October 27, 2020, 10:55:14 AM
To the OP. A picture is worth a thousand words I learned many years ago. Solves issues faster.
Please sign your name. It is appropriate.
Rich
Don't worry about your name. If you are not comfortable using your name then don't.
Rich.....please quit making up rules of conduct. If you wanna use your name, go ahead. Nothing here says it is "appropriate" .
WoundedBear
Quote from: jward on October 27, 2020, 05:39:55 AM
DCC autoreversers only work for DCC.
DCC decoder addresses are not assigned by the controller, they are programmed in by the user with address 3 being the factory default in most cases.
From your original post it appears neither of your sets is actually DCC. You would need to add a decoder to run them with DCC. You would also need a DCC command station, which apparently you don't have. This is a good thing, as you can look for a full featured entry level set (They run under $250) that is capable of not only running your train but programming them as well. Avoid those sets that will only run the trains and change the decoder address, they cost almost as much as one that will do everything.
I could help you with your layout wiring if only i could see your plan.
Thank you for your advice. Since I'm using Bachmann's controller and EZ track, I was thinking of possibly getting Bachmann's EZ command DCC controller. I watched a couple of tutorials on Youtube about how it works, and it seems relatively easy (like you mentioned, DCC-equipped trains are preset to 3, and an analog train would be preset to 10, and it also explained to how reassign the numbers), so I would be able to run both trains even if one of them isn't DCC equipped. Unfortunately, the tutorial also said that the autoreverser I have won't work for a non-DCC train even if it's running on a DCC system, so I guess that rules out that possibility. So the only option for a DC layout is a DPDT switch? I've uploaded my layout diagram in the original post, but if it still doesn't show up I've also uploaded it here: https://cptdb.ca/uploads/monthly_2020_10/420403057_Newlayout.jpg.1352727b27bcd6d61829a2ba913a33f6.jpg
I looked up the MTH R21 subway cars. According to MTH catalog, these are DCC ready with a 7 pin socket (???) which seems a bit bizarre to me. The standard NMRA socket is 8 pins, and a JST plug which is sometimes also used, is 9 pins. Honestly i don't know where you'd find a decoder that will plug into a 7 pin socket.
The Rail Chief set comes with a GP40, which NCE makes a drop in replacement decoder for )Bach-DSL) but you'd have to hard wire it. Do you have basic soldering skills? I am assuming you do not.
So, DCC will be out of the question for now.
You have insulated the reversing loop part of the layout correctly. To run it on DC all you have to do now is add a DPDT switch to control direction in this section. These can be found in any auto parts store. If you flip the switch over there should be 6 contacts in a 3x2 configuration. Start by connecting a wire between opposite corners of the switch. When you are done you should have the corners wired in an X, with two seperate wires insulated from each other. Next, wire the two contacts on the end of the switch (either end will do) to your controller. Wire the center two contacts to the reversing section. In your case, you have two seperate reversing sections that cross each other you you'll have to run wires to both.
TO operate the reversing section, you first run your train into the section. If it stops at the entrance to the section, flip the DPDT switch. Once your locomotive is fully within the section, flip the DPDT and the reverse switch on your controller at the same time. You can then exit the section and your train will be travelling around the layout in the opposite direction.
If you feel ready to tackle the decoder installations for DCC and want to purchase a DCC command station, you will want to look beyond the EZ COmmand system. It is very limited in what it can do, FUll featured entry level systems with much greater current ratings are available for maybe $25-30 more than the EZ Command lists for.
If you DO go DCC, be aware that while certain DCC systems can run DC locomotives, it is not advisable to do so. The DCC wave form can easily overheat and damage a DC motor not protected by a decoder. This is especially true if the locomotive is sitting still.
Quote from: jward on October 29, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
Next, wire the two contacts on the end of the switch (either end will do) to your controller.
Do you mean connecting it to the mainline track, or the DC controller itself? The controller I'm using only has 2 outlets (to connect to the wall plug and the track) so I can't plug another wire into it. The only option would be to plug it into the rerailer terminal on the other side from where the controller is plugged in, but I'm not sure how that would work. However, looking at this diagram (https://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/images-reverse-loop/reverse-loop-dpdt.jpg ) it looks like I would simply need to connect the DPDT switch to the mainline track and the reverse loop.
Quote from: jward on October 29, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
TO operate the reversing section, you first run your train into the section. If it stops at the entrance to the section, flip the DPDT switch. Once your locomotive is fully within the section, flip the DPDT and the reverse switch on your controller at the same time. You can then exit the section and your train will be travelling around the layout in the opposite direction.
So unlike a DCC autoreverse module, the DPDT switch can only flip the polarity of the reverse loop, but not of the mainline track without reversing the switch on the controller?
Hooo-boy. Glad all I have is a point to point. 😮😬🥵
Quote from: H5subway on October 30, 2020, 07:08:59 PM
Quote from: jward on October 29, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
Next, wire the two contacts on the end of the switch (either end will do) to your controller.
Do you mean connecting it to the mainline track, or the DC controller itself? The controller I'm using only has 2 outlets (to connect to the wall plug and the track) so I can't plug another wire into it. The only option would be to plug it into the rerailer terminal on the other side from where the controller is plugged in, but I'm not sure how that would work. However, looking at this diagram (https://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/images-reverse-loop/reverse-loop-dpdt.jpg ) it looks like I would simply need to connect the DPDT switch to the mainline track and the reverse loop.
Quote from: jward on October 29, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
TO operate the reversing section, you first run your train into the section. If it stops at the entrance to the section, flip the DPDT switch. Once your locomotive is fully within the section, flip the DPDT and the reverse switch on your controller at the same time. You can then exit the section and your train will be travelling around the layout in the opposite direction.
So unlike a DCC autoreverse module, the DPDT switch can only flip the polarity of the reverse loop, but not of the mainline track without reversing the switch on the controller?
To answer your questions. First, it would be better to connect the DPDT directly to the controller. At some point you're going to have to modify the plug n play wiring and this is one place to do it. It's pretty easy to do with a couple of pan head screws that you screw into your benchwork. You cut your Bachmann plug wire in half, strip the ends and tighten them under your two pan head screws. next, run the two wires from the DPDT switch to the screws and tighten those under as well.
As for the set up, yes, you have seperate reversing switches for the reversing sections and the main line. Ideally they should be on seperate circuits but it's much simpler to use the direction switch already on the controller. The problem is that instead of the reveresing switches being in parallel they are in series, which means that while you are in the reversing section flipping only one switch will reverse the train's direction. To keep it moving forward you must flip both. Once you are back on the mainline, the DPDT switch has no effect on your train and you can run using only the direction switch on the controller.
Quote from: Trainman203 on October 30, 2020, 08:43:38 PM
Hooo-boy. Glad all I have is a point to point. 😮😬🥵
Does wiring scare you?
No. I'd rather run a railroad than be an electrician.
You don't need to be an electrician to wire a DC layout. You just have to approach it logically. There are only 3 basic circuits used, and these are repeated as needed. These are 1. regular block, 2. reversing block, 3. switch motor. Even the most complex layout can be wired using just these three circuits.
I'm DCC. 2 wires to the track. That's it. Total wiring time- 1 minute 8 seconds. Then railroading commenced.
I don't like carpentry either. Not since a skil saw bucked back on me and nearly took my finger off. I have built a carpentry-free layout. Well, ok, one saw cut and the lumber yard did it for me.
So last week I got 2 DPDT switches and some wires, and was able to make my layout operational (of course, since the polarity has to be switched manually, trains can't just run through the crossover seamlessly, without being stopped to allow the polarity to be switched). However, sometimes there is still a problem with electrical shorts. I'm aware that the insulated section is supposed to be longer than the train, but that's not the issue I've had. A few times when running the subway set into the crossover (especially at slow speeds), even though the polarity matched the polarity of the main track from which the train entered the crossover (which should've allowed the train to keep running seamlessly until it reached the other end of the crossover), the train would still stop and lose power shortly after the first car entered the crossover (specifically when the wheels on the trailing cars touched the insulated gap in the rails). I know the wheels can cause shorts if the train is longer than the insulated track, but that's definitely not supposed to happen when the train is entering the insulated track, and the polarity matches the main track. The subway set has 4 cars, all of which can fit within the insulated track, the other trainset is slightly longer than the insulated track but doesn't generally have the same issue because the cars are all electrically dead (aside from having metal wheels), whereas the non-powered subway cars have interior lighting and thus are not electrically dead.
It sounds like the wheels on your subway cars are slightly wider than the insulated parts of the crossing (not crossover. That term has a completely different meaning in railroading.) The solution is relatively simple, one my grandfather showed me almost 50 years ago. Clear nail gloss acts as an insulator if you paint is on the metal rails that are accidentally contacting the subway car wheels. You don't have to paint much of the metal rail, just enough to stop the short. Maybe 1/8" at most. Eventually, the gloss will wear away and you'll have to reapply it. But it's a cheap, simple solution to your problem.
Quote from: jward on November 16, 2020, 10:48:37 PM
crossing (not crossover. That term has a completely different meaning in railroading.)
Yes, I meant crossover (i.e. this: https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/2df815873c13751c7f35a19dfad3040f/esy-032344888.jpg), which is what I have in my layout (the green section): https://cptdb.ca/uploads/monthly_2020_10/420403057_Newlayout.jpg.1352727b27bcd6d61829a2ba913a33f6.jpg
Quote from: jward on November 16, 2020, 10:48:37 PM
It sounds like the wheels on your subway cars are slightly wider than the insulated parts of the crossing
I wasn't referring to the plastic frogs at the crossing, but the insulated gap in the rails separating the mainline from the reversing loop (i.e. where the gray meets the green on the diagram). Sometimes (but not always) the train would lose power when going through that spot even though the polarity of the reversing loop was set correctly. Or, when the train is fully in the reversing loop and both switches (DPDT and controller) were flipped, it sometimes wouldn't start up again.
Another issue I've found previously when replacing plastic wheels with metal ones: the needle point bearings on the wheels sold separately were a bit too wide, such that when I first popped them into the truck frame they couldn't spin at all because they fit too tightly. So I had to trim both sides to get them to fit so that they could spin freely, but they still don't roll as well as the cars that came with metal wheels already intact (not to mention that the trim didn't quite turn out perfectly even). I wonder why the wheels that are sold separately aren't identical to the ones on those cars (that come with metal wheels), and if it is possible to purchase those higher-quality wheels separately.
H5subway -
Google Micromark truck tuner. It is a tool that will perfectly take care of the wheelset binding you described when changing to metal wheelsets. It is worth every penny. I have used it for years as I convert cars from plastic wheels to metal.
Tom
You can always bend the plastic truck frames outward a little. Easy, no one ever thinks of it.
Quote from: Gearedenginefreak on November 20, 2020, 09:25:11 AM
H5subway -
Google Micromark truck tuner. It is a tool that will perfectly take care of the wheelset binding you described when changing to metal wheelsets. It is worth every penny. I have used it for years as I convert cars from plastic wheels to metal.
Tom
Thank you for letting me know. I received it today and used it (I had enough spare untrimmed wheelsets to replace the wheels on 3 out of the 4 cars that originally had plastic wheels, and they roll perfectly now; waiting to receive another batch of replacement wheels to do the last car as well).
Quote from: WoundedBear on October 27, 2020, 11:17:50 AM
Quote from: rich1998 on October 27, 2020, 10:55:14 AM
To the OP. A picture is worth a thousand words I learned many years ago. Solves issues faster.
Please sign your name. It is appropriate.
Rich
Don't worry about your name. If you are not comfortable using your name then don't.
Rich.....please quit making up rules of conduct. If you wanna use your name, go ahead. Nothing here says it is "appropriate" .
WoundedBear
Afterall, "rich" changes his User name, back and forth, recylcing them, every couple years on the train forums he's on..... ???
Quote from: Gearedenginefreak on November 20, 2020, 09:25:11 AM
H5subway -
Google Micromark truck tuner. It is a tool that will perfectly take care of the wheelset binding you described when changing to metal wheelsets. It is worth every penny. I have used it for years as I convert cars from plastic wheels to metal.
Tom
This tool has been useful in improving the rolling quality of most of my cars, but unfortunately the last 2 cars I got turned out to be a lot more difficult. Both of those cars came with metal wheels, and thus should've had perfect rolling quality from the beginning, but unfortunately their rolling quality wasn't as good as I expected. But for some reason the truck frames on those cars are so tight that the truck tuner just wouldn't fit in them (I was worried about accidentally breaking the frames when trying to tune them), as a result I wasn't able to tune those cars properly (it seems like it might've actually made it worse). I wonder why that is (why those frames are built such that the truck tuner can't fit, even though it was specifically designed for that purpose).
Edit: nevermind, just tried it again (tried harder but still carefully), was successfully able to do both cars this time. It was a bit harder than the other cars, but not impossible.