New guy. New to the forum, new to model trains. If this is a silly question, go easy on me as I'm still learning.
I have been eyeballing this (https://www.shop.cvmw.com/200-foot-1-Track-Parker-Truss-Kit-1901.htm) for my setup. Though I'm concerned about if it will work or not for what I'm doing. My first attempt will be using the E-Z track to go across the bridge.
- Support for the bridge will be on both sides and in the middle. Not sure what will work so likely this will be improvised.
- Slide 36" of E-Z track through the bridge and lie it on top. Connect the 36" of E-Z track to the rest of my track. The track will not be mechanically mounted on the bridge
- Use the Bachmann 14 pier system to create a grade to and from the bridge.
After measuring the E-Z track width, I'm thinking this should easily slide through and lay on the bridge bed. The bridge should give middle support to the E-Z Track while the piers will support the ends of the track. Being 28 1/4" long, the track will peek past the bridge by about 3 7/8" on each side. Will this work fine or is there more I need to consider?
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. There is plenty of vertical clearance so the height of the E-Z Track wouldn't be problem. I guess you want to do it that way so you don't have to mess with odd ball pieces of track to get it all connected.
(https://www.shop.cvmw.com/images/1490902273412-1108442596.jpeg)
that bridge is lovely , the EZ track should work also I believe Bachmann make 36 inch straight EZ track
This may not matter to you if you after toy not prototype look ---- most types of railroad bridges do not have a roadbed like E-Z track.
Is it a single span like the truss bridge Terry posted a photo of? If so, it is designed to be supported from the ends only. a bridge pier under the center of the span is unnecessary, If it is a multiple span bridge, like a series of truss or plate girder bridges, then each span needs to be supported at both ends. Does the bridge come with track already on it? Is the track Code 100? If so, you can connect the EZ track directly to the track on the bridge.
About the 14 pier set.....As used out of the box this will result in a grade of over 5%. A grade this steep will drop the pulling power of your locomotives down to 10% or less of what they'll pull on level track. Smaller steam locomotives like the 4-4-0 will have trouble pulling more than a couple cars up this grade. If you have the room for a longer run up to the bridge, you may want to consider using two pier sets, and doubling the number of piers on each side of the bridge to lessen the grade. Every other pier will have to have shims under it to even out the grade. Doing this will cut the grade percentage in half and more than double the pulling power of your locomotives.
Well you threw a whole bunch of information at me that I wasn't prepared for :D
So first, the train is the steam locomotive from the Echo Valley Express set. If the information I found on it is correct, it is a 2-6-0. So honestly I have no idea a 5% grade is too much for it or not.
Second, I have been concerned about the grade myself as I will be using 18" radius turns before and after this bridge at first. That is 56 5/8" with a 3 1/8" rise making it 5.5%. The Bachmann Figure 8 track pack had the same setup so I figured it would be fine. So much for figuring... to use a 28 pier setup will require me to redo my setup to allow for more track. Not arguing the logic though.
Lastly it is the bridge Terry posted the picture of https://www.shop.cvmw.com/200-foot-1-Track-Parker-Truss-Kit-1901.htm . Figured it would fit the era of train nicely. If it doesn't need center support, it is much more sturdy that I give it credit for. Figured with the train moving across it, it would bow as the train approached the center. Though this opens up some opportunities for other things underneath :)
Thanks for the replies everyone. I greatly appreciate the advice. If you have more, please let me know. I'm all ears.
Quote from: plas man on April 09, 2021, 04:49:13 PM
that bridge is lovely , the EZ track should work also I believe Bachmann make 36 inch straight EZ track
Yes they do but unfortunately they don't sell them individually. You have to buy at least 10 which is way more than I need.
Quote from: 2ManyHobbies on April 09, 2021, 11:06:40 PM
So first, the train is the steam locomotive from the Echo Valley Express set. If the information I found on it is correct, it is a 2-6-0. So honestly I have no idea a 5% grade is too much for it or not.
I have recently moved and have my layout set back up. It is an up and over loop with a 3% grade on one side, and 4% on the other. I am in the process of doing a series of tests with various locomotives to see what they'll pull on these grades, using a test train made up exclusively of Bachmann silver series 40' gondolas. I have 19 of them available. Among the locomotives on the list to be tested are both the standard Bachmann 2-6-0 and the Alco 2-6-0. Stay tuned for more info, as I;ll post the results here as soon as I find them and put them through the tests. This should give you an idea how yours will perform on the grades.
Second, I have been concerned about the grade myself as I will be using 18" radius turns before and after this bridge at first. That is 56 5/8" with a 3 1/8" rise making it 5.5%. The Bachmann Figure 8 track pack had the same setup so I figured it would be fine. So much for figuring... to use a 28 pier setup will require me to redo my setup to allow for more track. Not arguing the logic though.
Faced with a similar situation, I turned the figure 8 inside out to make a twice around loop that crosses over itself. In my case there was no room for a figure 8, the loop occupies an area of 4 1/2 X 4 feet.
Lastly it is the bridge Terry posted the picture of https://www.shop.cvmw.com/200-foot-1-Track-Parker-Truss-Kit-1901.htm . Figured it would fit the era of train nicely. If it doesn't need center support, it is much more sturdy that I give it credit for. Figured with the train moving across it, it would bow as the train approached the center. Though this opens up some opportunities for other things underneath :)
Where I live, bridges like this are common. They are mostly used to span rivers where too many piers would interfere with the navigation of towboats on the river below. As such, the real ones are carefully designed to be self supporting. The model bridge is undoubtedly the same.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I greatly appreciate the advice. If you have more, please let me know. I'm all ears.
Good stuff, looking forward to your results. And I appreciate the feedback.
I would use regular code 100 flex track across the bridge rather than EZ-Track. That should give enough extra length to shim the ends up to match the height of the EZ-Track on it's roadbed. You could even glue in some code 83 track as 'guard rails'.
Len
Single pieces of 36" E-Z Track. There are others if you look around.
https://www.amazon.com/Whistle-Stop-BAC44584-Straight-Track/dp/B005713090 (https://www.amazon.com/Whistle-Stop-BAC44584-Straight-Track/dp/B005713090)
http://midwestrailjunction.com/bachmann44584e-ztrack36straightns.aspx (http://midwestrailjunction.com/bachmann44584e-ztrack36straightns.aspx)
https://www.ebay.com/p/1100527915 (https://www.ebay.com/p/1100527915)
I was able to find my Alco 2-6-0 which I believe is the same locomotive you have. It will pull 5 cars up the 4% grade, and 7 cars up the 3% grade. It almost made it with 8 cars, but stalled out on the curve at the very top of the grade.
So far my best puller is an Atlas Trainman GP38-2. It will pull at least 20 cars up both grades. Adding more cars than that was a moot point, because at that point the train was longer than the upgrade section.
Quote from: Len on April 10, 2021, 01:50:06 PM
I would use regular code 100 flex track across the bridge rather than EZ-Track. That should give enough extra length to shim the ends up to match the height of the EZ-Track on it's roadbed. You could even glue in some code 83 track as 'guard rails'.
Len
For now, I'm using E-Z track as it is going to be taken apart and put together multiple times. As a noob, it is... well E-Z to do. Is the flex track capable of being pulled apart and rejoined multiple times?
Quote from: Terry Toenges on April 10, 2021, 02:08:14 PM
Single pieces of 36" E-Z Track. There are others if you look around.
https://www.amazon.com/Whistle-Stop-BAC44584-Straight-Track/dp/B005713090 (https://www.amazon.com/Whistle-Stop-BAC44584-Straight-Track/dp/B005713090)
http://midwestrailjunction.com/bachmann44584e-ztrack36straightns.aspx (http://midwestrailjunction.com/bachmann44584e-ztrack36straightns.aspx)
https://www.ebay.com/p/1100527915 (https://www.ebay.com/p/1100527915)
You even found it on Amazon... I bow to your search-fu, it is strong. :D
Seriously, thank you. I found some single track but the vendor websites looked old and possibly out of business.
Quote from: jward on April 10, 2021, 02:31:41 PM
I was able to find my Alco 2-6-0 which I believe is the same locomotive you have. It will pull 5 cars up the 4% grade, and 7 cars up the 3% grade. It almost made it with 8 cars, but stalled out on the curve at the very top of the grade.
So far my best puller is an Atlas Trainman GP38-2. It will pull at least 20 cars up both grades. Adding more cars than that was a moot point, because at that point the train was longer than the upgrade section.
7 cars... we have 4 right now. I can't even imagine 20.
Code 100 flex track is sturdier than code 83. I've used it in portable temporary display layouts many times. You could even cut it to length for the bridge and glue it in place. Then use the cut off pieces, or regular sectional track, to transition from the bridge to the EZ-Track.
Len
A lot of Bachmann locos pull much better when weight is added. I have that 2-6-0 and added some weight in the cab and the front deck. I had issues trying to pull five old time passenger cars. Once I added weight, I was able to pull nine old time passenger cars. In the video, I'm trying to see how slow I can go and still pull the cars. Since you are going to be dealing with a grade, extra weight would really help. Since the tender blocks most of the view of the cab inside, it's not that visible unless you get real close at eye level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf6JaSo20NI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf6JaSo20NI)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172173010_10159364209770522_1171542578645727585_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=SeJSFJvdddcAX_RGNHv&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=ba24e342e2487d1d7eb6dce5aca9d4b1&oe=60993A5E)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172154219_10159364210135522_8139708883916791211_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=eCJtfA7qBXIAX_cXaxM&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=a9362f713c679e8b4ff504683d28aa35&oe=6098FE76)
Quote from: Terry Toenges on April 10, 2021, 07:08:56 PM
A lot of Bachmann locos pull much better when weight is added. I have that 2-6-0 and added some weight in the cab and the front deck. I had issues trying to pull five old time passenger cars. Once I added weight, I was able to pull nine old time passenger cars. In the video, I'm trying to see how slow I can go and still pull the cars. Since you are going to be dealing with a grade, extra weight would really help. Since the tender blocks most of the view of the cab inside, it's not that visible unless you get real close at eye level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf6JaSo20NI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf6JaSo20NI)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172173010_10159364209770522_1171542578645727585_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=SeJSFJvdddcAX_RGNHv&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=ba24e342e2487d1d7eb6dce5aca9d4b1&oe=60993A5E)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172154219_10159364210135522_8139708883916791211_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=eCJtfA7qBXIAX_cXaxM&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=a9362f713c679e8b4ff504683d28aa35&oe=6098FE76)
Thank you very much for the pictures, that is super helpful! What did you use as weight if I may ask.
The cab ones are K & L stick on wheel weights. I think I cut one down for the front and filed some off so it would fit, then painted it.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HiYAAOSw-DtgJgV5/s-l300.jpg)
I've used stick on weights for pine wood derby cars on some things.
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-upyoiba7k3/images/stencil/320x320/products/531166/335044/WOO-P378-2__78226.1504130138.jpg?c=2)
I've also used split shot for like in balloon stacks and small cabs.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTf-F_m5bzCaAAs12J8k-6yP4pJSNvLw8WanCE9DD0rZtu7hQvRNCRDCDAGERwoiadP_FN3IrvT&usqp=CAc)
If you've got room, nothing is cheaper than pennies. I've used them to weight tank cars, glued in stacks then place on edge in each end of the tank. 1 oz costs you 5 cents.
I have metal wheels on all my passenger cars so they are heavier than some of the stock cars out there with plastic wheels. I guess the Bachmann train set freight cars still have plastic wheels so there is less weight for yours to pull than if the freight cars had metal wheels.
Quote from: jward on April 11, 2021, 09:19:08 AM
If you've got room, nothing is cheaper than pennies. I've used them to weight tank cars, glued in stacks then place on edge in each end of the tank. 1 oz costs you 5 cents.
This is funny. 5 cents in the cab and there is probably room for 2 more. The front deck can't hold a dime, way too small. Will have to try an alternative.
Quote from: Terry Toenges on April 11, 2021, 12:39:36 PM
I have metal wheels on all my passenger cars so they are heavier than some of the stock cars out there with plastic wheels. I guess the Bachmann train set freight cars still have plastic wheels so there is less weight for yours to pull than if the freight cars had metal wheels.
Yep, all plastic wheels and the cheap plastic couplers. I think I may end up upgrading soon once I get things the way I like.
Funny how this started with "will this bridge work" and now moving on to installing ballast. Great stuff.
Found my other 2-6-0. This one is in the standard line. Basically it is the 0-6-0 with a pony truck added. It did slightly less well than the Alco 2-6-0, pulling 6 cars up the 3% and only 4 cars on the 4%.
So, if you double up on the piers to lessen the grade you should be able to pull 6 or 7 cars. If you use a single pier set, probably 3 cars is all you'll manage.
Since this thread got derailed, I will ask about a 4-8-4 with DCC that will not pull 5 light passenger cars (two axle trucks and no body weights) up a straight 2% grade. Initially, the drivers spun and the loco stopped moving, then I added traction tires to one driver and now the motor stalls and the loco still stops moving. Track and wheels have been cleaned.
Ideas?
I'm more concerned about the motor stalling than the lack of pulling power. Stalling a DC motor will weaken it, and possibly burn it out. It sounds like you have a weak motor already. As for the locomotive slipping on a 2% grade, what did you clean your tracks and wheels with?
Hi Jeffery,
The motor is a brand new motor, purchased from Bachmann, that was designed for a Niagra. The new motor has what appears to be capacitors soldered between the frame and the motor brushes; the old motor did not have these capacitors. I tried disconnecting the capacitors with no change in performance.
I have loosened the bottom plate, under the drivers, as suggested in another thread. I have tried modifying some of the CVs on the decoder for more power or torque compensation. These last two changes allow the loco to just barely get 4 passenger cars with three axle trucks up the grade.
As for the tracks, I typically wipe them clean with a dry cloth and then a light pass with 400 or 600 grit sand paper. The wheels are cleaned by removing built-up crud with an Exacto knife, followed by an alcohol wipe. The rails on the 2% grade are brass.
The capacitors I've seen are to minimize interference with radios and TVs nearby. I believe they are mandated in the EU.
You mentioned that the engine runs better backwards, can it pull more running in reverse?
Jeffery,
In reverse, I am still limited to 4 cars, but they go up the grade a little faster.
It sounds to me like you have a bind in the drive somewhere. I am by no means an expert on steam locomotives, but there should be enough torque in a new motor to spin the wheels. You should be getting alot of wheelslip when the limits of the locomotive are reached, even with traction tires. Perhaps somebody familiar with the intricacies of steam locomotives can guide you from here, most of my fleet is diesel, and much simpler to troubleshoot.
Jeffery,
No wheel slip at any time after I changed one driver to traction tires.
But you're stalling the motor and that's not good.
Jeffery,
I understand the overload on the motor, but, 3 cars on a 2% grade to minimize wheel slip seems pretty weak for a 4-8-4. I do have some level areas where I can run the loco and pull 6 cars without the traction tires. I expected the loco to be a better puller. Oh well.
Thanks for chiming in on this one.
John
I will agree that pulling power seems extremely weak for a locomotive that size. For comparison, I have an Alco 2-6-0 that will pull 5 cars up a 4% grade. It's a much smaller engine than you have. I also have a couple of diesels, Atlas GP38-2 and Bachmann GP7, that will pull 20+ cars on that same 4% grade. I have no way to determine how many exactly each will pull, because a 20 car train is longer than my grade.
I suspect you have a bind in the running gear but I am by no means an expert in steam locomotive repair. I do know that they have to be put back together the right way, with drivers quartered, or you have problems. For this reason, any time I have to remove the drivers from the chassis I have a friend who has done extensive work on steam do this for me. He knows what he's doing, I don't. Diesels are much easier to work on.
I have a 2-6-0, a 2-6-2, and a 2-10-2 that all pull better than the 4-8-4. The F7s and a GP16 do not seem to mind the grade at all; although, they do slow down a bit.
Maybe I am calculating the grade incorrectly; 3/4" rise in 36".
I have not found other modellers nearby, so I am strictly OJT on these problems.
Cheers
Your calculations are right. You are close enough to call it 2%. I muse a 24" level when setting f=grades, and figure 1/4" rise in that length for each percent of grade. It's slightly off, but close enough not to affect things.
This thread seems to have gotten far afield from "Non-Bachmann Bridges". Any chance a mod could rename it?
Len
Any chance that rather than complaining about the thread you could give this guy some advice on his locomotive?
Except for some "Thomas" stuff I keep around for the grandkids, none of my steamers are Bachmann locos and I've never had the type of problem he's having. So, without being able to see and test it to see what's going on, I don't have a clue.
Len
Jeffery,
Thank you for all the help and suggestions. I removed the traction tires to let the wheels spin instead of stalling the motor. The loco sort of works, but it is odd to see a 4-8-4 with an 8 axle tender sliding up a 2% grade pulling 4 cars with clean track, clean wheels and a fresh lube job. It does not seem to matter if the cars are weighted or not and 4 or 6 axles; the 5th car stops the train, but now the drivers keep spinning.
If anyone has more ideas or suggestions, let us move this thread to another thread I started concerning "4-8-4 rebuild". I started that thread when I was having track fault issues with this same loco. After rewiring the loco, front to rear and changing decoders, most of those problems are gone: except, every now and then, the loco just stops and will not respond to commands.
See you on the other thread.