I dislike those little plugs. Wires come undone easily... When you pull on the side to get them out, you rip the socket they go into out. I'm tired of having problems with those little things.
Could you condense the wires to one large plug, that is easily removed? This also would help in the issue of falling, if the locomotive did fall, the plugs would unplug and not rip wires out.
Either that or remove those darn lugs on the end. They don't really need them to stay in.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
It's over.
Mark
You don't remove the plugs with the wires, but with a small flat bladed screw driver to lever theme up enough to then pull the plug itself with your fingers or a pair of small needle nose.
Gene
Mark,
I will offer one thought, they where not intended to be continuiously plugged and unplugged. Plug them up, arrange the wires, put them on the track, run them and leave them there - no problems.
Sheldon
Micro Mark sells those plugs-M/F-on their site.
As Gene and Sheldon said, you don't yank on those plugs bt the wires. As I say, don't yank on ANY plug by its wires! That is just plain dumb! In the case of those Bachmann plugs, thier innards are a form of Molex@ connectors, and as their size will show, are not the heaviest duty thing in the world. A little common sense will go a long way here in working with this stuff, and will save grief untold.
Rich
I do as Gene says. It winds up with the socket the plug plugs into being removed from the circuit board. They need to be stronger, is all I'm saying.
EVERYONE should standardise on the Life-Like P2K tender coupling.
Drawbar that gives a realistic distance between engine and tender, that works on toy train, 24 inch and less, curves and is a drawbar and electrical connection all in one.
By far THE best ever tender drawbar. Period.
Mr. B., you listenin'?
Roger,
What a good idea, and a dreamy thought.
Next you will want Ford and Chevy to use the bolt pattern on their wheels!
Neither is likely - but we can dream.
Sheldon
Hench my much criticized rant about -if not nmra, them some sort of standards...OK us old guys will bear with the 'experiments' or 'evolution' and adapt our own ideas around the dumb stuff...after we hunt down surplus neuro surgeon eqiupment.. I am not physically affected by these expensive moustraps, but MY BIG concern is that it furustrate newbies and they toss the trains out and buy a Wii thing insted of helping us get new products churned out....these wires are all the weakest link, but the sickest thing is the p2k switchers where the wiring connection IS the drawbar... oh, btw, my dodge pick up has ford rims and a chevy cap..
TonyD,
You don't like the P2K drawbar? Why? I have no problem with any of this stuff, all seems to work pretty well to me. Sometimes a little ajustment or modification makes it work better.
I do add weight to most tenders, but I would do that even if we had no wires. Drawbar forces are different from coupler forces and steam locos backing up with long trains nned to not push the tenders off the track ina curve or turnout.
One of the basic principals of this hobby is that it is about learning to build/operate these little machines. As I have said before - it is not a hobby for the instant gradification, give it to me now, cell phone addicted, ADHD, Ipod, spoiled brat crowd.
If one whats perfect, ready to play toy trains one should buy Marklin, where everything is "perfect" out of the box and carefully designed to work with everything else since they make the whole system and don't have to worry about theire perfect trains comming in contact with any inferior products from some "other" manufacturer. But that's what they are - toy trains not model trains - I build model trains.
Your Dodge will take Ford rims because for decades they both bought their brake systems from Bendix.
Sheldon
I myself quite like the electrical connections on the new "Mantua Classics", I would be quite satisfied if these were the new standard plugs and adopted by all manufactures.
Probably are patent protected............
The Spectrum connections are to say the least problematic. Only a matter of time before one or more engines get returned to Bachmann for replacements or repairs.
To the operating dept of Atlantic Central; No I do not like p2k 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 tender couplers/wiring plugs. More than 11 cars, the engine rolls away from the train-and tender as far as the flywhell will take it. Now, with sound, that was $220, 11 cars, that's $20 per car, retail, ready to run, top of the line, etc etc...I rest my case your honor.... I, as do many others on here, do know how to re-engineer, rebuild and redesign model locomotives, thanks for asking, but I prefer to do that on old junkers from the bargain box, not out of the box....I chime in on this site to pick up new ideas or info, hopefully help new, or fellow modelers with the experience I picked up since Christmas '65.... especially keep new people interested and not frustrated to the point they do put the trains on ebay and buy a Wii game. absolutely not to get in urinating contests..... some of us are presuming the professional engineers who come up with new models will read these threads and take the ideas, gripes and concerns to the drawing board..... obviously all model manufacturers have done just that in the last 10 years, wouldn't you agree?
TonyD,
Do you mean to say your Proto 0-8-0/0-6-0 locos come uncoupled from the tender while running? If so they are broke! I have pulled as many as 40 cars with my 0-8-0 and never had a problem. It sounds to me like the little clips that hold the connector together are bent or broken. EVERYONE I know personally who has these locos loves them, they run great, pull well and are the most detailed models of these prototypes ever made, bar none.
Tony, I am not questioning your personal experiances or modeling skills, I don't know you. But I will stand by my first post on this thread and the position that many people to not have the proper appreciation for how fragile well detailed models can be.
You are not alone, many have disagreed with me and others like me who except the fragile nature of these products. To me it is not a problem, I never expected them to be rough and ready toys. I too have been at this a long time - as long as you give or take a year or two.
And I will repeat my view that the manufacturers did not intend for these plugs to be repeatedly and constantly pluged/unpluged but rather invisioned them being removed from the box, carefully assembled and put on the track - to stay there and run. Not to be packed and unpacked like an eight year old getting his toys out of the toy box.
I am amazed at the number of people who break things by being rough with them then say it was poorly made. That assumes it was intended to be treated rough - not a reasonable assumption in this case.
Again I say they are models not toys, if you need or want toys Lionel and Marklin are interested in your business.
And I would give that advice to a new person in the hobby as well. I used to work in hobby shops and started lots of new people in the hobby, helping them with their problems and teaching them how things worked.
But this hobby is not for everyone, people should honestly evaluate their skills, interests and abilities - and be ready to learn if they want to do something new, not expect everything to be easy or perfect from the start.
What is the reward in something if it is always easy? That's what's wrong with the world today.
Sheldon
Proto 0-8-0/0-6-0 locos.
What Sheldon said, in spades.
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 27, 2008, 11:33:54 AM
What is the reward in something if it is always easy? That's what's wrong with the world today.
Sure enough, but not everyone is looking for the same thing from the hobby. I'm sure some folks can find it very relaxing to spend hours fiddling with something mechanical about a model locomotive. Others--like me--would find that stressful, or just the opposite of what we want out of a hobby. If you like trains, I don't think the answer isn't to find a different hobby.
Me, I'm scared of the flimsy little plugs that couple the tender to the locomotive of my new Richmond American. I'm so convinced that the first time I try to uncouple the tender from the locomotive I'll pull out a wire that I'm actually investing in a display case to store the engine when I'm not running it, so I won't have to put it back in its box.
Jeff,
I understand that not everyone wants the same thing from the hobby. But that does not make the product wrong if it suits most of those in the hobby and the long established standards/conventions/practices etc.
I would ask you one question though, why would you put the loco back in its box when not running it? Why not just leave it on the layout? This is really the cruxt of my original point in this thread.
And, there are companies out there that cater to that more "ready to run"/"durable" market - and their prices reflect the difference. I'll amitt, I am selfish. I don't want you needs to drive up the cost of my hobby when I am perfectly content with the products as they are.
Sheldon
Yes, YES, YES!!!
Quote from: rogertra on January 26, 2008, 01:07:29 AM
EVERYONE should standardise on the Life-Like P2K tender coupling.
Drawbar that gives a realistic distance between engine and tender, that works on toy train, 24 inch and less, curves and is a drawbar and electrical connection all in one.
By far THE best ever tender drawbar. Period.
Mr. B., you listenin'?
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 28, 2008, 01:52:55 PM
I would ask you one question though, why would you put the loco back in its box when not running it? Why not just leave it on the layout? This is really the cruxt of my original point in this thread.
Would love to. But some of us don't have a permanent layout yet and would still like to run our locos from time to time.
Point One is that a small flat bladed screw driver is an excellent tool to begin moving the plugs out of their sockets. Never, ever, pull on the wires.
Point Two is simply that some people have locomotives they can't run on their home layout or have no layout and run at a club. Many find it necessary to transport locomotives back and forth. The real solution is for the companies to go back to boxes made so that loco and tender can remain attached in the box.
Gene
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 28, 2008, 01:52:55 PM
Jeff,
I understand that not everyone wants the same thing from the hobby. But that does not make the product wrong if it suits most of those in the hobby and the long established standards/conventions/practices etc.
No, it doesn't, but I wasn't questioning that. It just struck me that your post could be taken as implying that everyone should want things the way you like them. If I misconstrued, I apologize. No offense was intended.
QuoteI would ask you one question though, why would you put the loco back in its box when not running it? Why not just leave it on the layout? This is really the cruxt of my original point in this thread.
Simple. I have only a small, semi-permanent layout and a lifetime--well 45 years--of locomotives that need to be run from time to time to be kept in working order. I don't have the space to keep everything out of the box all the time.
Jeff,
Fair enough. And it just goes to show how differently we all view the hobby.
I have about 150 powered locos (that counts B units etc) but all have a purpose on the large layout I am constructing. It fills a 22' x 40' room and will have a mainline run of about 13 scale miles.
But I do not collect model trains. I only buy items needed for the theme of the layout. I don't own a UP Big Boy, PRR K4 or GG1, SP Cab Forward or GS4, or many of the other "famous" locomotives.
For me it is about building a minature operating transportation system, and while I own a lot motive power and rolling stock, they will all have duties and homes on the layout. And I don't model those railroads/locations or times in history - so I don't have those models.
I understand you situation, but the fact remains that the best and most detailed models in HO scale have never been designed for constant handling without significant care being taken - and doubt that will ever change.
One well known local modeler in this part of the country, who also collects quite a bit has display cases full of locomotives, floor to ceiling, on every wall of his living room - not to mention a large basement layout full of models. That is nice - for him. Even if my wife would allow it, and I can aford it, I would not want it.
Sheldon
One more thought on this - my layout is not complete, many models are currently in boxes. I try to minimize taking them in/out of the boxes as much as possible.
BUT, I have done extensive testing of my new control system with most of my loco fleet, I have hosted our local group night 4-6 times a year for many years and I always have a few trains running on the areas with completed track, I never run power saws or do heavy construction in the layout room with models out.
And I have yet to pull a wire out of a plug or damage a model getting out or putting it away. Why is that?
Sheldon
Quote from: SteamGene on January 28, 2008, 02:53:38 PM
The real solution is for the companies to go back to boxes made so that loco and tender can remain attached in the box.
Gene
I'll second that as well ...
Quote from: SteamGene on January 28, 2008, 02:53:38 PM
The real solution is for the companies to go back to boxes made so that loco and tender can remain attached in the box.
Gene
How hard is it to cobble up your own box? A cut-and-tape job made of cardboard will do the job. Or go as fancy as you want. Using wood, a friend made a carrying box that he sets on the track, then drives the locomotive into it. Next time he wants to use that locomotive, he sets the box back on the track, backs the locomotive out, and is ready to run. No disconnecting, no re-railing, no time wasted.
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 28, 2008, 04:17:45 PM
I have about 150 powered locos (that counts B units etc) but all have a purpose on the large layout I am constructing. It fills a 22' x 40' room and will have a mainline run of about 13 scale miles.
Oy, what I could do with that kind of space. ...
QuoteBut I do not collect model trains. I only buy items needed for the theme of the layout. I don't own a UP Big Boy, PRR K4 or GG1, SP Cab Forward or GS4, or many of the other "famous" locomotives.
I don't really consider myself a collector, either. I've just accumulated 15 computer paper boxes full of rolling stock over the past 45 of my 50 years. And I've never bought a car or a locomotive that I didn't intend to run--or at least use in a kit-mingling project.
QuoteI understand your situation, but the fact remains that the best and most detailed models in HO scale have never been designed for constant handling without significant care being taken - and doubt that will ever change.
I don't think anybody is disputing that. All some of us are wondering about is why the wire connectors can't be a little sturdier.
I'm sure you're not meaning to imply that only people with the wherewithal of space and whatever to construct their own railroad empires should be allowed to own and operate nicely detailed locomotives.
Your friend must have a very understanding spouse to accept floor to ceiling display cases on every wall in the living room.
Sheldon wrote: -
"But I do not collect model trains. I only buy items needed for the theme of the layout. I don't own a UP Big Boy, PRR K4 or GG1, SP Cab Forward or GS4, or many of the other "famous" locomotives.
For me it is about building a minature operating transportation system, and while I own a lot motive power and rolling stock, they will all have duties and homes on the layout. And I don't model those railroads/locations or times in history - so I don't have those models."
You and me both Sheldon.
I model the everyday and mundane. Things you'd expect to see or could logically have seen in southern Quebec on a summer's day in 1958. If it dordn't fit that time period and locale, I don't buy it no matter how tempted I may be. Cute and colourful, well know or famous just don't cut it with me. That goes for locos, rolling stock, buildings and scenery.
No John Allan, George Sellios or Malcolm Furlow type scenery for me.
Jeff,
I do believe the guy with the floor to ceiling display cases traded in the first wife for that very reason.
In my opinion, as someone with a mechcanical/electrical design background, if they made the wires/plugs any more heavy duty it would result in more operational problems from lack of fexability.
All I am saying is I think these products work fine, are well designed and well made, especially for their modest prices, and I have had no problem with them. Just accept that coupling and uncoupling the tenders is not a 3 second, wam bam affair - it takes a little time and patience. Buy a Bowser foam craddle and a small screwdriver or two and take your time - no problem.
Roger,
You should have seem the look on my wife's face years ago the first time I bought three of the same loco rather than three different ones - but now she gets it.
Sheldon
Jim,
I agree that a storage/transportation box is easy enough to build. I think one can even buy the things. My point is that the boxes used by Bachmann, BLI, Proto, etc are modeled after brass loco boxes, and for them, that made sense. But Athearn and IHC have it right with a box where the tender follows the locomotive and it's easy, if necessary, to carve out a bit to make it easier to store them connected. In fact, BLI's heavy USRA Mike is like that.
Why make it necessary to reinvent the wheel?
Gene
One of the curses of smaller model railroad scales is the necssity for small, delicate parts. However, most manufacturers use someone else to do the packaging. They don't usually know much about the product except that it has to get to the customer intact.
I model a few scales at once, HO, On3/30 and 1:20.3. My biggest complaint is that the HO boxes, even those for brass models, would always damage the model when removing it. I have modified all of my boxes like that for coupler clearence and detail points. I like the packaging the new Berkshire came in as it opens and allows easy removal and storage later. The one that was terrible is the packaging used on the GE44ton when it first appeared.
Sheldon, your empire sounds great, same for yours Gene. Any pictures?
I like the connectors Bachmann uses, while I would like the wires to be more supple, they would tend to break. A location above the drawbar would be much better as well. I usually connect teh locomotive and tender in a cradle and then put them on the track. Same for removal and storage.
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 29, 2008, 07:51:49 AM
Jeff,
I do believe the guy with the floor to ceiling display cases traded in the first
wife for that very reason.
Sheldon
:D Thank you, Sheldon. Bad day at work, here. I badly needed that laugh!
Those darn little orange plugs no doubt are used in the computer industry and that will not change. Little devices have them and sometimes a little smaller.
I remove the plugs in my Spectrum 4-4-0 with a small jewelers screwdriver. Having worked with electronics and computers for many years, I probably have an advantage as I know the wiring and connectors are delicate.
I take my stuff to a local model railroad club in a commercially box made for transporting HO trains.
I am a 67 year old geezer with Not steady hands so I know I have to think about what I am going to do and move slowly. I do not hear as well as I use to and it is Not people mumbling.
Rich
Japasha,
I'm not sure where my camera to computer cable is, but I'm going to get a spare. Until I can get the engine facility done, which needs some good weather and several good workers, I'm actually doing some scenery work - the thing I really enjoy.
My wife and I are going to Massanutten for two nights, three days, and I'm going to take some buildings to work on at night.
So you may get some pictures soon.
Gene
Floor to ceiling display cases?
Wife said. "Me or those darn trains!"
You know, I hardly miss her. ;-)
Quote from: rogertra on January 29, 2008, 11:58:40 PM
Floor to ceiling display cases?
Wife said. "Me or those darn trains!"
You know, I hardly miss her. ;-)
I think I saw something like that on a license plate once. ;D
If you cut the tab off the male connector, it will stay with friction, they will pull out easily.
(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/of_280/image/obj29geo29pg1p33.jpg)
(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/of_280/image/obj32geo32pg1p33.jpg)
Use a NEW SHARP single edge razor blade the tab will slice right off
Just a thought
Harold