I am just wondering if I can get a discussion started on the Eastern Narrow Gauge lines other than the Western Pop's. ;D
what's a "pop"?
Scot
popular? ???
Rocker term ?
Yes Pop means Popular. I thought everyone new that term?
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on February 13, 2008, 06:00:09 PM
Yes Pop means Popular. I thought everyone new that term?
everyone who is 12 years old maybe. (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
please make an effort to use real words.
thanks,
Scot
Maybe you need to start a discussion on new slang terms. I think a bunch of us were kids when "cool" and "groovy" were "hip." Some of us may even date back to the "swell" era.
Like far out man
At the tender age of 62 I resemble that remark! ::)
Quote from: scottychaos on February 13, 2008, 08:36:03 PM
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on February 13, 2008, 06:00:09 PM
Yes Pop means Popular. I thought everyone new that term?
everyone who is 12 years old maybe. (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
please make an effort to use real words.
thanks,
Scot
people often say "does it really matter if we use these slang terms"??
(usually referring to "teen speak" type terms)
and this very thread shows that..YES! it matters!
so far there have been 8 replies to the original question, NONE of which have anything to do with the question asked! ;)
instead, all the focus has been on slang words..
ok then..moving on! ;D
the question was:
I am just wondering if I can get a discussion started on the Eastern Narrow Gauge lines, as opposed to the more popular Western roads?
sure!
several interesting narrow gauge railroads in the East.
East Broad Top - 3-foot gauge in Pennsylvania. still operating today.
Maine 2-footers - as the name suggests, 2-foot gauge in Maine.
several museums operating this historic equipment today.
Mt. Gretna - 2-foot gauge, which the new On30 4-4-0 is based on.
and others..
what would you like to talk about specifically?
Scot
I am hooked on Maine 2 footers and I also like Mt. Gretna, the B&B the grand daddy of all 2 footers in the East.
As a Canuck ( I am from Canada) I also know there was a little known line planned in Nova Scotia, so my freelance Darling and Kingsville RR is right at home.
Looking forward to more equipment for my RR especially a smaller Forney, rollingstock lettered for the SRRL and others.
Thanks to Bachman for the "big" Forneys and the Mt. Gretna 4-4-0
Super!!
Happy Railroadin' down East!!! :) :)
SRRL MAINE
We'e kinda been down this road before, but OK. Here's a short list of some of the longer-lasting eastern narrow gauge lines.
East Broad Top - Still in operation for tourist service. Friends of the East Broad Top are engaged in preservation/restoration work on equipment and buildings. See the FEBT web site.
The Maine 2-footers - The SR&RL was the biggest and best-known; the Monson the longest-lasting. There are historic societies for several of the lines; there is operation at Portland (thought they have problems with land ownership); The WW&F operates with a re-gauges sugar plantation Forney; There is operation at Phillips on the old SR&RL roadbed.
The Boston, Revere Beach and Lynn - Began with a fleet of Forneys; electified in the late 1920's. An overlooked gem--narrow gauge mass transit.
The East Tenessee and Western North Carolina - "Tweetsie" ran narrow gauge into the late 1940's; steam on the standard gauge line into the late 1960's. A preservation group is restoring track in the Doe River Gorge.
The Waynesburg and Washington - Ran between its namesake towns in SW Pennsylvania. Taken over by the PRR in the early '20's; narrow gauge ops quit in mid-1930's, but PRR kept a track car service going to protect the right-of-way. A narrow gauge loco is preserved at the Greene County fairgrounds just outside Waynesburg.
Pittsburgh and Western - Ran from Pittsburgh north and east to Mt. Jewett, PA. Taken over by the B&O and standard-gauged in the 1920's IIRC. Portion of the line has been used by the Knox and Kane for steam excursions.
Ohio River and Western - Largest narrow gauge line in Ohio. Taken over by the PRR in the 1920's, and quit in the mid-1930's. Motive power included a couple of ex-EBT locos.
Mt. Gretna Narrow Gauge - Essentially a late-19th Century excursion line. Two-foot line ran from a connection with the Cornwall & Lebanon RR up to the top of Governor Dick mountain, and also served a National Guard training area. The Bachmann 4-4-0 is patterned after the locos.
Lancaster Oxford & Southern - Once a part of the Peach Bottom RR, which ran from York, PA down to the Susquehanna River at Peach Bottom with a ferry service to the east bank and track ran from (east) Peach Bottom to Oxford, PA. A branch later ran to Quarryville. Line quit in the early 1920's. The Peach Bottom later became the northern portion of the Ma & Pa.
Newport and Sherman's Valley - Connected with the PRR at Newport and ran south through its namesake valley.
Tuscarora Valley RR - Ran in the next valley west of the N&SV. A connection at one time was proposed.
Lawndale RR - Down in the Carolinas, this short line was essentially a plant railroad for a textile mill. Ran into the 1940's with a little 2-8-0.
The problems as I see it for relative lack of interest in eastern narrow gauge include the following:
The Rio Grande lines ran in regular service into the late 1960's, so a lot of fans could actually see and ride the line. Equipment and lineside structures were still there to be photoed, measured, etc.
There is the whole mystique of the old Wild West--tiny iron ponies struggling against the massive Rocky Mountains.
You can model anything from heavy duty main line to tiny kettles on creaky branches and be authentic.
Most of the equipment was old, or older, and therefore more "interesting".
By contrast, most of the eastern lines were standard-gauged early, or gone before WWII, and thus aren't in anyone's memory today.
The Tweetsie did maintain an antique charm and ran through some magnficent scenery. The EBT was a modern-appearing coal conveyor with steel rolling stock and modern super-heated locos. Both of these lines have a dedicated following, but by contrast with the Colorado roads, have only a few hundred modelers scattered in several scales, while it seems that you can sell a thousand or more of almost anything for the D&RGW/C&S/DSP&P, etc.
The 3-foot gauge Bath & Hammondsport once interchanged with the 6-foot gauge Erie! at Bath, NY.
the B&H converted to standard gauge in 1872, and the Erie converted in 1880.
Scot
Hm-m-m. Wonder if the B&H and Erie had any dual gauge. It would have been Lionel prototype, with a center third rail. :D
Many of the eastern lines listed above lend themselves VERY nicely to modeling in On30. Many used 2nd-hand equipment, so rolling stock was often a mixture of sizes and styles. Locos, also, tended to be on the smaller end of the spectrum, since trains were generally quite short. You could very possibly model many of these smaller lines almost siding by siding if you were so inclined. None really had extensive yards or shop complexes with only a few notable exceptions.
BTW, there are books out on many of these railroads--even the obscure ones. I just finished reading "Little, Old, & Slow" on the Lancaster, Oxford, & Southern. The nickname is very suitable for the quaintness of the railroad.
Later,
K
Quote from: ebtnut on February 14, 2008, 01:27:16 PM
The Boston, Revere Beach and Lynn - Began with a fleet of Forneys; electified in the late 1920's. An overlooked gem--narrow gauge mass transit.
The Revere Beach locos were Mason Bogies, not Forneys, making the line even more interesting.Some of the later locos were made by other builders after Mason stopped making them, but these were to the Mson Bogie design (strictly the Mason-Fairlie design as Mason Bogies were a development by Mason of the single Fairlie design, using Fairlie patents).
Hamish
A page about the Boston, Revere Beach & Lynn Railroad Mason Bogies:
http://www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/brplrr_244t.htm
Scot
You should also visit Taplines, an excellent website that chronicles railroads in the Southeast, mostly. I find the Florida lines really interesting.
(http://www.taplines.net/March/ob11.jpg)
http://www.taplines.net/ (http://www.taplines.net/)
Hey Guys
I don't know about mighty Narrow Gauge East or not. There were sure some interesting operations most were lumber related and died when the timber was cut out.The Surry, Sussex and Southampton Railway of Virgina was one of these and there were hundreds off Swamp RRds in the great Dismal Swamp. The Arbuckle Timber & Stave Co lasted into the late 20s it was mananged by Surry Parker The inventor of the Surry Parker Log loader.The Mt Airy & Eastern Ry was another neat RR operating in the Granite Quarries at Mt Airy NC into Virgina.Yes there is not as much information on the small lines but it is out there if you look hard enough.I have listed some links to info on the web of the railroads that I have mentioned. And remember we had mining in the south also in a two county area of central NC we had iron and coal mining dating back to the Civil war , later they mined shale and talc and later clay for brickmaking all served by early narrow gauge RRds.
http://www.dendronva.org/sss_rr.html
http://www.freestateofpatrick.com/dinkyrr
http://southern-railway.railfan.net/ay/mae/index.htm
Thanks Alan Ashworth
As I indicated, my listing was not intended to be exhaustive. You need to get Hilton's book if you want a reasonably complete listing of U.S. narrow gauge lines. Hilton doesn't cover non-incorporated lines, like some quarry, lumber and industrial rr's, but it is an excellent reference. Re; the SS&S, the Southern Ry. operated a narrow gauge line in the same general tidewater area. The Ma & Pa had predecessor narrow gauge lines besides the Peach Bottom. They included the Maryland Central and Baltimore and Lehigh. Consolidation and standard-gauging occurred in about 1901.
Thanks Alan for those links. They are very usfull.
Rock On & Live Strong
Dusten
Another eastern n/g railroad is the Quincy & Torch Lake in the upper penisula of Michigan. This line is a modelers dream. The line hauled copper ore from the deep mine to the smelting plant on Torch Lake. Most of the locomotives, engine house, and a few cars survive today. If you get a chance to go to Hancock, Michigan you can see this line along with the worlds largest steam hoisting engine, now a museum.
Phil
Alan, are any of those little Carolina engines still here?