With the recent proliferation of HO scale 2-8-4's I cannot help but wonder why the Erie version was not modeled. They had the most of any railroad, over 100. As they appear to have been quite a bit different than the NKP or C&O variants and would have required different tooling I suspect that it was decided not to go that route.
Yep. With the Van Sweringen (sp) 2-8-4, one has a close model for NKP, C&O, PM, and, apparently, Virginian. With the Erie, one has a close model of the Erie.
Gene
The Virginian BA's were slightly different with the steam dome under the sand domes. QAny chance Bachmann will produce an authentic Virginian version?
I agree about the Erie Berks. I would have also liked to see The B&A A-6 berkshire modelled; especially as this is the road upon which Lima tested this magnificent steed. The B&As had a much different look than the NKPs, Nashville, Chatanooga; or the Pere Marquette in that their barrel was broader, the wheelbase was a bit less, they had Trailing truck boosters-Franklins, I do believe-as well as the low-browed brooding look of an elesco feedwater heater. They were a tough-looking horse, and with a load on makin' smoke, there were a sight to behold. I own a DVD called "Whistler's Western" which quite obviously features B&A-with a lot of steam, especially 2-8-4s.
It was either Hunt or Nigel who mentioned to me that the B&A ran a 2-6-6-2(?) across the Westfield-Pittsfield (state line) run, which had one hell of a grade! Back when I was driving tractor trailer, I used to just watch 3-4 diesel lashups working the run from Wornoco up to Beckett with ponderously long trains. I t too, was a sight, even though by then it was "worms" on the side. Really cool, too, to watch that same train growling in to Pittsfield-a half hour after I had taken lunch there!
There were the GE equipment runs from Pittsfield plant to Schenectedy and on to Syracuse also, with some pretty interesting depressed centre cars. Transformers were made here-big transformers.
The B&M run from Pittsfield to North Adams was no slouch either. For a long time, the station at N. Adams sported a really neat weathervane-I mean a really NEAT one. I had made plans to go up some night and "rescue it from the discard" but some other joker beat me to it. Oh well...
So all of this is leading me to gleam lecherously at the three Rivarossi Berkshires that now slumber solemnently on the dead line (top shelf). Hmmmmmmmmm..... lessee: Grind down the pizza cutters, change the ponies and trailing wheels, deface the smokebox for the (yep; you guessed it) Gene; are you ready for this? Elesco feedwater heater. Same tenders-peish the thought I change them for Hickens... New motors ala NWSL, and of course, Tsunami.
How off would one be to model a B&M berk, Except for the coffin FWH weren't they similiar to the B&A Berks?
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-s1408s.jpg)
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bm/bm-s4000.jpg)
Quote from: pdlethbridge on March 27, 2008, 11:12:58 PM
How off would one be to model a B&M berk, Except for the coffin FWH weren't they similiar to the B&A Berks?
AND~!
They were later sold to SP and ATSF!
The B&M got rid of them because of problems with the way the trailing truck was mounted, I think it was actually a part of the main frame
PDLethbridge;
I am not sure of the dimensions of either the B&M or the B&A berks. The B&M type is one I saw a lot of as a kid when visiting Memere in Arlington (her house was just up from the Brattle street overpass); I believe that is part of the Woburn loop. At any rate, I think I will take a serious look at the conversion this weekend. I will probably do a "prototype" of the Portsmouth Terminal and Hoosic railroad...if I do. Right now, I am closing in on the F&M resin kits I had mouldering away on some obscure shelf. You know, the detail on resin kits is nothing short of phenomenal; but building them...something else. Marty mcGuirk came up with an idea I like: As the parts are generally cast inclusive of a main "sheet", it is easy to just sand the sheet down to the thickness of paper. Easier to remove that way.
Back to the Berkshire:
Gene mentioned once or twice that the C&Os were called Kanahwas. What is interesting about that (he is quite correct) is the amount of references I have heard made to [them] as "Berkshires". As I saaid before, I believe the boilers of an NKP Berk are a little smaller in Dia. than the B&M or B&As. That may just be an optical illusion. We shall see.
I wonder just how much hell I would raise with the prototype police if I were to leave that great looking [Riv] sand dome intact.
Rich,
Two points about the Van Sweigerin (sp) sand domes. It appears from the photos that the B&M/B&A sand domes have somewhat the same shape - rectangular rather than round - they seem to be about half the size. The other thing is getting rid of have the sand pipes.
Since that family began with the NKP, I wonder why they were given sanding equipment that is obviously a C&O design.
Gene
Gene;
Copyright/patent infringement aside, why not? I am by far, not any expert on locomotive design; but that sand dome/sander/valve arrangement looks well-designed and capable, so why wouldn't someone want to use that same design? I have long admired that particular design of engine; whether Berkshire or Kanahwa for their effeciency and durability. I am sure that if steam were contemporaneously viable economical alternative, they would still be pulling freight today.
As modeler, I do not neccessarily have to bother my head with engineering issues; I simply have to think that they look "cool" and go with it. In good consience, however, I tend toward having to have some logical mechanical legitimacy in running an engine on my layout; which [is] in an area of the country (New England/New York) that would mandate efficient power in order to be pulling the equivelent freight out of Mechanicsburg or Oak Point to Boston; both of which encumbered long fast freights. This, I suppose, is the biggest reason for my engine reconstructions I have done, which you and a few others have seen.
Back to the B&A A-6s: The A's all had square sand domes, albiet different design from the NKP/C&O types in shape and sander configuration. I do not believe however, that I will rot in hell for taking that liberty; I have taken others in life I think I would be more liable to be held accountable for...So I will trot merrily on my derranged way and make Berkshires that look like a cross between B&A and C&O (ooops; excuse it: C&O Kanahwas...) I bet they will also look cool...
Rich
Probably. Any anything looks great with an Elesco perched on the front!
Gene
Gene;
Take a look at the two pictures on Lethbridge's post. Both of these bespeak of a powerful handsome beast. One of my best friend's father (who has a brass collection that would make either of us sick) has a B&M Berk, resplendant in the Coffin design parameters. he is a big B&M nut, having worked for them as a younger man, before getting his degree(s). He also has a slew of pictures of Mechanicsville, New York. What a time that must have been!
Rich, Arlington was on the Bedford Branch of B&M. The woburn loop split off the Northern in Winchester, and reconnected at North Wilmington Junction. The 2-8-4's were used exclusively on the Fitchburg Division, from Boston-Mechanicsville NY. 4-4-0's, 4-4-2's, 4-6-0's, 4-6-2's, 2-8-0's, 2-6-0's, and 2-8-2's were the common power on the Bedford, and Woburn branches. To my knowledge the 2-8-4's were too heavy, and were strictly assigned to the Fitch.
In fact, one of those berks broke through the track and road bed, it was so heavy. I had that picture in a scrap book thats now long gone.
Alex;
Thank you for correcting me.
Now why did somebody have to go and mention Fitchburg? I spent probably the five most miserable months of my life, including my first year at military school, in Fitchburg back in the seventh grade.
Gene
Not Fort Devens? Gosh Gene, after a week in Fitchburg schools, you're lucky you didn't do life in the Federal pen, never mind the army... ok, now that I got the Yankees in a stir, it was bridges- mainly, that limited the B&M -and CV's power, the Conn. River line to this day has some spindley looking contraptions, until it's sale, the heavy CNR diesel units couldn't go past milepost X, or bridge Y.... come to think of it, some B&M branches used wooden covered bridges till the big G ended those good ol' days... BTW, ttbomk, the Boston and Albany 2-6-6-2's were replaced by the 1st batch of berks, and the NYC sent them to coal branches in West Virginia, but they were already beat to death by then... a tough grade for many miles. the last time I rode Amtrak thru the Berkshires, atleast 4 CSX freights were broke down on the main, good thing it is working its way to double track once more- the hills are hard even on the newest power. That was a long ride, quicker to have walked home...lastly, the B&A and B&M reworked the fleet so often, no matter what you do to a model, it might just have had a prototype for a few months there... I'm not sure, but I think the guy that did those square sand domes came from the barvarian state railways or somethin'.... don't know how they survived the tunnels...
The B&M had Erie mikes for a while but did away with them.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on March 28, 2008, 06:06:54 PM
The B&M had Erie mikes for a while but did away with them.
Only loco's we used that had Vandy's!
We also had 0-8-8-0's which we used on the Mickeyville Hump for a few years, until we sold them to a copper company out west.
Yes,
My father was stationed at Ft. Devens, but it was a temporary assignment. And yes, the school was something of a blackboard jungle. I think it's the only school I ever went to where I never went to another kid's house or a kid came to mine. And this was after two years in Japan where it was the exact opposite.
Funny, I took a course at Ft. Devens as a captain - and didn't think much of the place then, though I did go to Walden Pond.
Gene
Sad how the only rail in place from the Fort Devens Base is the lead to their sidings, which is now Guilford's Ayer RIP Track.
Yes, I spent a month in Fitchburg one day last year. Rather nice, interesting railroad linesiding there. Mills with timber trestles from the main into a dock or hopper on the oher side of a gully or river, a feed mill full of covered hoppers in an area with out a cow for 40 miles, stonework embankments and overpasses from the 1840's or 50's, still just as solid, a recently working turntable with two stall RH? (correct me on this GG and others) and a decent passenger station- terminal for the Boston commutor runs-- and a mile of missing track to the old New Haven/CSX line in Leominster, very short sighted 'railroads are dead' politics in the 70's I guess. So there's plenty to see on your school reunion trip Gene :). As far as Devens, I'll tell ya GG, I think there is more rail activity around there now then when the army had it, was just fuel & supply spurs I think.... don't think this was a 'hot spot' till ST..... older closer guys will know...
(correct me on this GG and others)
Don't worry, Tony; he will.
I am not positive the roundhouse is still there. The station is long gone sadly. Outside Ayer MA, New England Milling Co. uses a former NYO&W NW2. East Fitchburg Yard, a.k.a. "Littleburg," has one of the Fitchburg Railroad's original buildings, with original paint inside, as well as the MBTA and Pan Am crew lounge. In Worcester there was also a Roundhouse until recently. Worcester also has a very nice station, and is home to P&W, who run Super-7's, cabless GE's, some GP40's, and some B40-8's. P&W has also embarked on rebuilding a few branch lines in Connecticut, and rumors are flying about them buying the southern half of New England Central.
Yeah, the poor southern end of the CV. A few years ago someone wrote an illustrated softcover on it. Still handles quite a bit of freight concidering the' from nowhere to nowhere routing'. Seems it's only claim to fame was the Canadian government's best option for an ice free neutral port....neither use was an ace up the sleeve very often... used to have some nice excusions on that line, rural New Enland at it's best....New London is the 'seed' of my seaport scene. Enough of that! now let's talk about Fitchburg again!! The old station is long gone I know, but the new one isn't cookie cutter atleast, yes, the roof of the RH was pretty rough the last time I saw it, the TT loke servicable- nice and narrow, i bet it wasn't 200' form the road to the mainline, a modeler could use that as a prototype in a pinch for space. I don't know if that is gone too, but there is a brige over- rt 2A? 31? on the west side of town, there is/was a trestle coming right out to the edge of the highway, with a bumper on it. About 25-30 feet up. Locals told me that was where crushed stone or gravel was offloaded into dumptrucks parked below it, an old paper mill was up the hill to the west, very 'narrow guage- model- looking- thing' I am still at a loss for words concerning this...apparatus... we should all go on a field trip to Fitchburg!! Hey GG! sup with that flatcar of 2 by 4's whackin' the lunchbreak cannonball? We just had a thread about brake wheels! No derail, no chucks, no chain, no cops on the ball.....ouch! could have been worse huh?
No one knows how it started rolling. It made it over a derail, through two points set against it, 2.5 miles, down 96ft, and onto the Northeast Corridor. Commuter train went into emergency, had almost stopped. The center-beam flies in at 40 mph, and pushed the train back 47ft. Engineer needs teeth implants, and plastic surgery to piece together his lip. 150 people on the train were injured. I was talking to one of the passengers who was in the 4th car from the locomotive. When the car hit they had almost stopped, and he was thrown onto the ground and glasses and cell phone went flying across the floor...
ROADTRIP!