A question for Mr. B, there is some confusion about which motor is in the Spectrum 2-8-0. The specs on the model page indicate a 5 pole motor yet others are insistant that it is a 3 pole Mabuchi motor and that the reference to the 5 pole is a mistake. Apparently when the Spectrum 2-8-0 first made its debut it had the 3 pole Mabuci motor and that the frame would require modifications to fit the 5 pole motor.
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/2/1358709/ShowPost.aspx#1358709
Please advise, thanks
Dear DR,
I'll see what I can find out.
Thanks!
the Bach-man
Quote from: the Bach-man on February 15, 2008, 11:04:58 PM
Dear DR,
I'll see what I can find out.
Thanks!
the Bach-man
And the answer is ?
Dear DR,
I should have the definitive answer tomorrow.
the Bach-man
Dear DR,
The originals had a five pole motor. A running change was instituted that replaced them with a highly efficient three pole motor with he same rating. thus, if your locomotive is recent production, it does have a three pole motor.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Quote from: the Bach-man on February 26, 2008, 11:50:05 PM
Dear DR,
The originals had a five pole motor. A running change was instituted that replaced them with a highly efficient three pole motor with he same rating. thus, if your locomotive is recent production, it does have a three pole motor.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Thanks, does "recent" refer to the DCC Onboard vs the DCC Ready lines?
You should have the information on the product page for the 2-8-0 updated s well as it indicates the use of a 5 pole motor.
This question reminds me of the guy in the Rolls Royce show room years ago who wanted to know the Horsepower of the 400 cid V8 in a 1973 Silver Shadow. In a time of newly emerging government control over emmision standards, Rolls Royce was reluctant to disclose how they managed to propell a 7,500 lb car at the rate of acceleration that it had and still meet the federal standards - So rather than disclose actual HP ratings, their reply was that the HP was "adequate" for the job.
While I agree Bachmann should not falsely represent the the specs of their models, I think actual performance out weighs any "specification". I know my own hifi speaker designs are proof of that - all built with simple and inexpensive componants yet ravied about by people who own $10,000 sets of speakers.
Sheldon
The reason for the question was based on the fact some forum members on this board and other boards indicated that they had the Spectrum 2-8-0 engine and it was powered by a 5 pole motor, while others indicate the presence of a 3 pole motor - they are both right - two different production runs.
Question answered. There was a change in the production of this model.
A friend of mine recently bought a 2-8-0 with DCC on board and the engine make unusual sounds of grinding. Sounds like impurities in the motor/belt drive system.
Could this be a simple defect or has the quality of the model gone down?
I have a few older DCC ready which now have decoders in them K4s and they run smooth as quite, not grinding sound at all.
I also have a old Bachmann 2-8-0 which had driver problems has has been out of service for several years. I would like to restore it and have it up graded to DCC/sound. Would Bachmann do this work or replace it for me, or is it cheaper to just buy a new one? I can get a new one with out sound for $69.99.
Clear Block,
I think we all know that Bachmann has made a dud from time to time, but overall, if you get a good one, Spectrum locos are very good runners.
I have five 2-8-0's, three older ones and two that came with DCC. All run well and are quiet. I don't think we should confuse the ocasional defective loco with some dramatic shift in quality.
But if you have a piece that's not right, send it back! They send out new ones no problem.
Sheldon
My problem is that I parted the motor out 2 years ago when my 2-8-0 stopped preforming to it's fullest extent. (it was having difficulties negotiating 22"R curves) I at the Time had DC and decided it was best to part the motor out and make it a dummy and keep it on display on the shop track. I later converted to DCC and have been thinking about buying a DCC/Sound 2-8-0 and swapping out the shells so I can run my Baldwin Loco Works paint scheme engine. I would Like to send it to Bachmann if possible and have it re built for a minimal charge, not exceeding the price I could buy a new one for.
It's a simple matter of swapping out the running gear.
Quote from: Clear Block on February 27, 2008, 11:32:36 PM
It's a simple matter of swapping out the running gear.
Then why not switch shells with a new locomotive and have one working locomotive in the BLW colours you want and one dummy in the new colours that you can leave on the RIP track or weather down and set out on the dead line? Two locomotives for the price of one!
Jim,
That was my idea all along, However I was thinking that if the Bachmann can replace the motor assembly and install a DCC/Sound up grade for a reasonable price then I would send it in, I does have a lifetime warranty am I right?
In the end I may just buy the new one and get it to work first before I do any shell/running gear swapping.
Quote from: the Bach-man on February 26, 2008, 11:50:05 PM
Dear DR,
The originals had a five pole motor. A running change was instituted that replaced them with a highly efficient three pole motor with he same rating. thus, if your locomotive is recent production, it does have a three pole motor.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
After receiving the answer that the current 2-8-0 is powered by a 3 pole motor I searched for information.
It appears that a 3 pole motor can outperform a 5 pole motor depending upon a number of variables. So it is quite possible that this new 3 pole motor is indeed superior in its running characteristics to the older 5 pole motors.
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43689&whichpage=2
New Bachmann Connie 2-8-0s are currently selling for $114.00 for the UP, $117 for the others.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJWY1&P=SM
I ordered 2 more for spares. Better get'em while they're hot. They might be 2007 models but who cares?
Bob
Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 06, 2008, 12:31:54 PM
New Bachmann Connie 2-8-0s are currently selling for $114.00 for the UP, $117 for the others.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJWY1&P=SM
I ordered 2 more for spares. Better get'em while they're hot. They might be 2007 models but who cares?
Bob
For a better price check MB Klien Just less than $80.00
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/category_s/224.htm
Yup, it's just I get free shipping with my membership, and a 30 day no hassle guarantee directly from Tower. That is worth the extra money for me.
If something is defective, they even send me a prepaid UPS label, and pay the shipping to send the replacement to me. Even if I just change my mind, they will give me a refund within the 30 days.
I won't buy from any vendor that requires out of the box defects to be sent to the factory.
Bob
Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 06, 2008, 10:13:12 PM
Yup, it's just I get free shipping with my membership, and a 30 day no hassle guarantee directly from Tower. That is worth the extra money for me.
If something is defective, they even send me a prepaid UPS label, and pay the shipping to send the replacement to me. Even if I just change my mind, they will give me a refund within the 30 days.
I won't buy from any vendor that requires out of the box defects to be sent to the factory.
Bob
Well I guess I know the price of peace of mind for me at least.
Well, I figure the shipping gets the price up to $90, if something is wrong that's another $10. Some stores charge a 15% restocking fee if you return it, in addition to the return shipping.
Mostly, 37 years of satisfaction with a company. If the stores selling for $80 had the same guarantee it would be tempting.
Tne 2008 catalog still lists the 2-8-0 as having a 5 pole motor. Since all my Connies are less than a year old, I assume they all have the 3 pole. They seem pretty smooth and have plenty of power, of course I have no means of comparison. I do wonder why they haven't updated the catalog but it is not a big concern to me.
The greatest peace of mind is knowing Bachmann stands behind their locos regardless of age.
Bob
See other thread on flywheels. There is no way a 3 pole motor can have better low end high torque performance than a 5 pole motor. And I challenge anybody to provide verified evidence that they can. A three pole motor is great for jack rabbit starts and high rpm that is why they are in slot cars. Iwouldn't have one in any of my locomotives.
One, I've never paid more than $80.00 for a Bachmann 2-8-0, even new ones with DCC.
Two, without knowing all the specs of a motor, arguing 3 pole vs 5 pole is silly. Sure, for our purpose in model trains, with all other design features being equal, 5 pole is better than 3. BUT, a very well designed, skewed armature 3 pole can easily perform as well or better than "average" 5 pole.
I have both old and new 2-8-0's, the new ones with the three pole motors seem to run a bit smoother, especially at slow speeds than the old ones. So, based on results, not hype, the new three pole might well be as good or better than the old five pole.
Bachmann's use of the belt drive and the gear ratio in question plays a role here. The torque curve of the new motor may be better suited to this application than the old motor, no matter how many poles it was.
As I said above, it's results, not theory or hype that interest me. Having desgined and built HiFi speakers, designed and installed hydronic heating, designed and installed process machinery controls, sooped up hot rod engines, and built model trains for 30 years, I am more impressed with results than fancy specs.
Sheldon
Quote from: Atlantic Central on March 07, 2008, 06:31:06 PM
One, I've never paid more than $80.00 for a Bachmann 2-8-0, even new ones with DCC.
Two, without knowing all the specs of a motor, arguing 3 pole vs 5 pole is silly. Sure, for our purpose in model trains, with all other design features being equal, 5 pole is better than 3. BUT, a very well designed, skewed armature 3 pole can easily perform as well or better than "average" 5 pole.
I have both old and new 2-8-0's, the new ones with the three pole motors seem to run a bit smoother, especially at slow speeds than the old ones. So, based on results, not hype, the new three pole might well be as good or better than the old five pole.
Bachmann's use of the belt drive and the gear ratio in question plays a role here. The torque curve of the new motor may be better suited to this application than the old motor, no matter how many poles it was.
As I said above, it's results, not theory or hype that interest me. Having desgined and built HiFi speakers, designed and installed hydronic heating, designed and installed process machinery controls, sooped up hot rod engines, and built model trains for 30 years, I am more impressed with results than fancy specs.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Finally comments and a comparison from someone who has the Spectrum 2-8-0's with both motors. I agree that it is the results that matter.
drhone,
It was actually because of this thread that I took the decoders out of two new 2-8-0's that I recently purchased (I don't use DCC) and compaired their performance to several of my older ones.
The difference is slight but the new ones seem to start smoother and are smoother at their slowest speed, which seems to be about the same, for both old and new.
Modelerbob can rant all he wants, but they run great in my opinion. Three pole, five pole, it matters not.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Your review of the two motors certainly supports the Bach Man's comments that the 3 pole were of comparable specs to the new 5 pole.
I will now order another Spectrum, just to have available. There certainly are a lot of 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's currently available at very low prices at the moment.
Sheldon, I didn't intend for my post to appear as a rant and I apologise to those who took offence. I've been associated with model trains and slot cars for 40 years and have never seen a 3 pole motor that could start at very low rpm and maintain it with a load, ie. creeping. If you say it's so then I'm glad Bachmann has improved their motor technology as I own and will continue to purchase Bachmann products. My next purchase will be a 2-8-4 Berk and I will be interested in finding out what motor it has.