Is there a problem with the production on this model as I have been watching it closely and all the bugs that had to be worked out. Since it's release on Jan 8, there have been very limited units on the market. Some Ebay guys have had one once in a while, but people are paying retail plus for them. Trainz had 280 available on a pre-order, relisted them twice on 30 day auctions and still only sold 3! It seems like they are slow sellers, or either the public is keeping the supply down so the demand will stay up, along with the price! I read some threads where some don't like it because of the smoke. It has an on/off switch, so what is the problem? If you don't like the smoke, turn it off! But anyhow, I would like to hear from all you guys that have bought one. Are they a deal or a dud?
chuff,
One it a loco only a few people are interested in, mostly a "collector" item not a "modeler" item. Two, no matter what MTH says, their DCS system is not compatible with standard DC and there are also questions about how well these locos work with DCC.
A recent survey found only about 25% of active modelers use DCC or plan to switch to it soon. So for 75% of the market MTH locos are out of the question since they need 16 volts to run at a normal speed in stead of the normal 12 volts.
And, I'm sure the early reports of problems scared away quite a few people as well. No one I know is even remotely interested in the thing.
Sheldon
Atlantic Central: I have 18 trains and 12 of them are DCC with sound, with one being MTH's K-4. I enjoy all the sound, but it is expensive. My first $80 train my wife got me in 2002 has turned into a $18,000 model railroad museum! But what got me is what MRC done. If you get their latest Prodigy system, you have to trash your DC units are put them in a display case like I did. The Prodigy will not recognize straight DC! They explained it messed up DCC signals. You can still run one DC on a Digitrax DCC system, but have to get it off the hot rails when not in use. But in reference on what you said about MTH's voltage, I use a booster, with a digital power read out, and set it on 16 volts when I run the K-4, then turn it back down when I park the K-4. I have been doing this for over a year and haven't had any problems. I was informed by several "experts" that 16 volts wouldn't hurt the rest of the trains, but would shorten bulb life, which I haven't even had to replace a bulb! But with being able to monitor my voltage that close, do you think I am still playing with a loaded gun? Thanks for your comments!
Chuff,
That's all fine, glad you are enjoying the hobby. I have no problem with any of that. Personally I would not want any loco that I had to make special accommodations for like you are doing.
DCC and sound are nice if you like it, that's fine. But the fact is it is a long way from replacing DC. I know all about DCC, I researched it very throughly and have kept up with the growth of it. I still have no plans to use it, and many modelers I know feel the same way.
You have 18 locomotives, 12 are DCC with sound, that's a great start into this new technology, and, again, I am glad you are having fun.
I have nearly 150 locomotives, only one is DCC with sound. I keep the sound turned all the way down. I would never "replace" all these locos with DCC/sound models or install decoders in them and I use a wireles throttle system that works very well without DCC.
I have been building model trains since 1967, I have worked in the hobby business and seen companies like MTH come and go in the past. They too thought they could rewrite the hobby the way they thought it should be.
I'm not saying MTH makes a bad product, or that they will fail completely, but it is unlikely that they will ever be a major force in HO with their current thinking.
Mike Wolf does not really understand the HO market and/or he thinks he can "re-invent" it into something like O guage - not likely.
Every major company that has tried to "push" DCC or DCC/sound on everybody has retreated and begun offering DC only versions of their products. What does that say? DCC is not taking over otherwise companies like Broadway Limited would not be investing in DC technology.
MTH is even more extreme in having his own "system" and making is locos less compatible with the other two systems - they will not get any of my business - especially with the choice of locos offered so far.
Sheldon
I have both the MTH K-4 and the Triplex. They are both terrific locomotives with great sound and smoke. I do not operate dcc or dcs. I run my MTH engines with an MRC Black Box and that lets me access most of the sound features of the MTH engines. I use Quantum Engineer to run my QSI sound equiped engines and DC Master to run my LokSound engines (although I also use the Black Box to run the LokSound engines). I keep the Triplex to 10mph just like the prototype and it looks and sounds great. I have it pulling a 54 car train and it is quite a sight. I use a dpdt switch to switch between the Black Box and the Quantum Engineer/DC Master. And plain analog dc no sound engines run on the Quantum Engineer/DC Master side of the switch with no problems.
Dear All,
I saw the mTH Triplexes again today, and again I say they look and run fine.
I like them!
Have fun!
the Bach-man
It is not an accurate representation of either a VGN or N&W locomotive, so why would I want one. The VGN did have one Triplex, bigger than the Erie's and not the one MTH letters VGN, for a short while before they sent it back and had it FIXED into a 2-8-8-0 and a 2-8-2..
Sheldon
I have been into the hobby about 4 years and I have become aware of the hand held wireless system but I have no idea how it works . Right now I am running DC and EZ Command DCC . I was quite involved with radio controlled model airplanes and have often wondered , with the new micro receivers and transmitters that are now available could they not be adapted to railroad modeling.
Thanks
Don
Don,
Aristo Craft makes several versions of their radio throttle and another is made by RCS. Both are similar in many ways but I prefer the Aristo product.
It is difficult to explain in short the many ways DC layouts can be controlled, but the best DC systems are not as "restricted" as those promoting DCC would have you think.
It is long, but a careful read of my post about Radio Control for HO in the General section will explain much.
Sheldon
Quote from: Virginian on February 17, 2008, 10:45:46 AM
It is not an accurate representation of either a VGN or N&W locomotive, so why would I want one. The VGN did have one Triplex, bigger than the Erie's and not the one MTH letters VGN, for a short while before they sent it back and had it FIXED into a 2-8-8-0 and a 2-8-2..
VGN had a 2-8-8-8-4.
(http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/triplex/virgin28884.jpg)
Built in 1916.
I'm looking to get a Triplex. I'm both a modeler and a collector and there's nothing wrong with that! ;D
MTH has just announced its next HO loco: an SP GS-4.
Like THAT's never been done before ... (yawn)
Quote from: Jim2903 on February 21, 2008, 01:38:22 PM
MTH has just announced its next HO loco: an SP GS-4.
Like THAT's never been done before ... (yawn)
I thought MTH was going in the right direction with the Triplex: unusual prototypes that would induce people(In this case Erie or Huge Steam fans) to buy them despite misgivings; and over time, those modlers would make the general modler population more comfortable with MTH products. But for some reason, MTH has decided to aim for the same niche that many others, most notably BLI, are already established in. MTH has a long fight ahead of it to gain respect in the HO community, and doing already-produced models isn't going to help them. Look at Lionel's HO Challenger some years back. A great model by most reports I've heard, but it didn't gain them any traction in the marketplace. Now if they had done, say, an FL-9, they could have gotten a loyal following that would have helped their reputation significantly. Well, we'll see how long MTH's HO venture lasts; personally, I bet they wouln't last much longer than MRC did in N-scale (three years, I believe).
Timothy
Timothy,
As long as MTH stands by their position of only offering their products with "their" control system, they will never do well in the HO market.
HO has two well established control systems, the MTH system is not fully compatable with either one.
Every major HO manufacturer is retreating from positions of only offering DCC or DCC with sound, back to offering DC only locos as well as DCC or DCC/sound versions.
Proof the rumors of wide spread conversion to DCC and wide spread interest/acceptance of sound are wildly exagerated.
MTH makes it even worse on themselves with their propriatary system. They might as well be Marklin and develop their own track and couplers too.
As for their loco choices, that's not helping them either. HO has different demographics than O gauge. While there may be more HO collectors now than ever before, it is still a smaller percentage of the market than it is in O gauge.
Many HO modelers ONLY buy what fits their layout scheme. I, and many I know are like this. I don't own a PRR K4, SP GS4, Big Boy, Challenger, GG1, N&W J, UP FEF, etc, etc.. MTH will not get any of my business at the rate they are going. And I don't personally know anyone who as bought one of their HO models.
Sheldon
Quote from: Jim2903 on February 21, 2008, 01:38:22 PM
MTH has just announced its next HO loco: an SP GS-4.
Like THAT's never been done before ... (yawn)
Actually the only diecast/plastic version is bachmanns. It sounds like there should be a million plastic/diecast ones, but there is only 1 on the market now.
Quote from: Jim2903 on February 21, 2008, 01:38:22 PM
MTH has just announced its next HO loco: an SP GS-4.
Like THAT's never been done before ... (yawn)
Well that is true that there has been a couple ( Precision Craft and Bachmann ) but if you look more carfully on their page , there is a GS-6 that they are doing also . At least as fare as I know that has never been done before ; or at least not for a very long time . On top of that they are painting it for GS-6 ( WP SP ) GS-4 (SP daylight in a couple different lettering versions + warbaby black + BNSF ) . I know most of you are going to wonder why they did BNSF , well I do not know how well it will sell but I will probly buy one . And one last thing , I know that most of you probaly do not want to spend the money , but for $150 dollars they have a "miny DCS" that is really amzing it can be attached to a DC system and a DCC system and allow you to withe the tuch of a button switch between DC and DCC or... use DCS on your MTH locomotives . I think that the first part of that should be enough to make you buy i even if you don not own a MTH locomotive . (I Belive this info is corect that is what it sounds like in there add ) . And as for the DC problem unless you own a huge layout who needs to run that much over 20 scale MPH .
Frisco,
20 scale miles per hour? I model a fast freight line in the the 1950's, trains where going a lot faster than 20 mph. In fact, except for long coal drags, all railroading in North America since 1900 has been done at speeds well above 20 mph. Huge layout? What's huge in your mind? Mine will have 13 scale miles of double track mainline when complete - but I know lots of people with layouts this size. Why have a GS4 on a 4x8?
If you are just buying these trains to "collect" them, I guess it does not matter voltage or control system they use or even if they run at all for that matter.
Most modelers who actually run their trains, and especially those with large layouts, want one consisant, intergraded control system, not a hodge podge of power packs and "add on" controllers jury rigged to run this loco and that loco.
I will concede that the GS4 is not as over produced as the PRR K4 or as obscure as the Triplex, but as I have said in other posts, the big West Coast steam thing is over staturated in general. Remember, there where only about 650 Northerns of all designs in all of North American railroading. how about more of the locos of which there where thousands or tens of thousands, 2-8-2's, 2-8-0's, 4-6-2's, 4-6-0's, etc.
I still run DC, and plan to for ever (not withstanding the developement of something better than DCC). Other manufacturers see the market and realize DCC is important, but not taking over by a long shot, they have ajusted their marketing acordingly - not MTH, they still think people will buy a speacial control system to run two locos, they do not understand HO modelers.
I apply 13.5 volts to the track on my layout, just enough above 12 volts to allow for pickup losses and a directional lighting circuit boards in the locos, leaving 12 volts max to the motor. I use the Aristo Craft Train Enginer wireless throttle and regulated power supplies that supply this voltage. All my trains run fine. I'm not buying one that needs 16 volts or adding any special controllers.
Sheldon
On top of that they are painting it for GS-6 ( WP SP ) GS-4 (SP daylight in a couple different lettering versions + warbaby black + BNSF ) . I know most of you are going to wonder why they did BNSF , well I do not know how well it will sell but I will probly buy one . [/quote]
I seem to recall the 4449 was painted black with the BNSF logo for a series of excursions on the BNSF a while back ...
In 2001 I think it was ??? . As for the 20 MPH I was refering to the Triplex , which I belive only went about 10 MPH . Frisco
July 6, 2000.
I believe I was 5.
PFM office, Edmonds Beach Washington.
4449 painted black, in BNSF colors speeds by at 50 MPH hauling a BNSF ES44/AC4400W/C44-9W type diesel.
I have it on video still.
I got to see the 4449 pulling the freedom train on one of the few lines that the Santa Fe let the 4449 pull the train with out a diesel on it. It was about 3am, but it was worth the loss of sleep.