Did you see the MSRP for the new 4-4-0's with sound--$400.00 :o. That is one manisfestation of what happens when the value of the dollar drops like it has over the past year or so.
The Chinese government is being pressured to let the Yuan float, like other currencies, since the value is now set by the government. If that happens your $400 engine will be a bargain.
And with Indian Tata company pumping out tiny four wheel cars, no bigger than golf carts, the world demand for gasoline will increase even more. They plan to make 12.5 million of the miniscule cars to sell in India, Bangladesh, China and Indonesia.
Time to find the automobile that will run on water or maybe an atomic car. Anybody got some spare plutonium hanging around? (I know, I can get it from Walther's!)
Quote from: ebtnut on February 25, 2008, 01:26:43 PM
Did you see the MSRP for the new 4-4-0's with sound--$400.00 :o. That is one manisfestation of what happens when the value of the dollar drops like it has over the past year or so.
Why this facination with sound?
Every sound equipped loco I've heard sounds like a tinney 1960s transistor radio. No exceptions.
I'm 100% convinced that people who go gaga over sound equippped locos have convinced themselves that what they are hearing is far better sound than what is actually there.
So go ahead, spend the money and in a year or so you'll be running most of your sound equipped locos with the sound turned off.
And Bachmann,
NO SOUND should always be an option for those of us with ears that don't lie.
Thank you Roger!
You and I have said this over and over, but the masses continue to hear what they want to hear.
After a list of other modeling goals are completed, I may tinker with layout based sound that could be played through speakers actually up to the job.
But, I actually do like the quiet!
As for the dollar, well the founders warned against this too, but what did they know?
Sheldon
The impact of the dollar drop is that the US banks have to send me some money back when I purchase stuff for my layout. ;D Thanks George.
Don ;)
Sounds like grumpy got too much of that technicolor stuff with the queen on it, so this is where he can spend some of it---British Railway Modelers of North America5124-33St. NW,Calgery,Ab.T2L 1V4.....or go to trains and Lattes in Jasper.....
Sheldon.
As I think I've mentioned here before, I work in theatre and sometimes need to mix live sound, therefore I have to hear what is really there, not what I think is there nor what I'd like to think I hear.
That's probably why, to me, all loco sound systems sound terrible. After all, what else can you possibly expect from an HO loco with a 1" max. diameter speaker? Tinney sound!
I agree with Roger on the quality of the sound. My 1:20.3 sound systems have enough bass to make my neighbors run when I turn the sound upp outside. A lot of sound is based on wattage and these small HO sized systems just can't deliver and the speaker size would never handle it if the power was available.
PFM and later PBL offered a noise system that could be set up on the layout and it actually delivered a lot od nice steam and diesel sound. I buy without sound or DCC as I build my own power supplies and have excellent controllers. Many of my locomotives do have DCC so I can play at other homes when I like, but no sound.
Real trains really transmit sound, I live 1/2 mile from the NS main line and I hear it all. That's the sound system I want.
Well, I know my ears are shot. I had a hearing problem BEFORE I went into the artillery. Twenty-seven years around guns didn't help. But I like the sound of chuff and whistle and pumps.
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on February 25, 2008, 08:17:11 PM
Well, I know my ears are shot. I had a hearing problem BEFORE I went into the artillery. Twenty-seven years around guns didn't help. But I like the sound of chuff and whistle and pumps.
Gene
W H A T?
;)
If this is the "Sounds of Silence Club," let me join in.
Like japasha, I love the sounds from my large scale trains. Unlike japasha, my neighbours just shrug and mutter something about 'crazy Jim at it again.'
For me the ultimate is still blowing the whistles and ringing the bells on real locomotives. loud, loud, LOUD.
I don't like using unkind words, so I will say nothing about tinny, tiny sound except that I don't use it.
__________________________________
The US dollar drop has been mostly good for us Canadians. Most of us are tired of paying a premium on American magazines, cards, cars, you name it. All too often the premium has had little to do with the differences in our currencies. Today, many of us are refusing to pay a Canadian price any higher than the American price.
This is off topic, but about a year ago, I mentioned that I didn't like the tinny sound, or the fact that the sound emanating from under the tender insulted my sense of hearing and perspective, I caught hell from some people on this board, including unwanted lectures about the law of physics. Seems others are realizing silence is better than crappy sound, hmmm?? Though my eyes are shot, I am lucky at 69 to have perfect hearing. However I can certainly understand Gene's situation and viewpoint.
I bought some railroad sounds CDs from Historic Rail and play them through my little 50 watt stereo, they sound great. I copied tracks on separate CDR to match what I'm running. With a compact player and good headphones I have theater sound in stereo. Now if Tsunami can incorporate a tiny transmitter to send the sound to my headphones, or transmit the sound back through the digital signal to a stereo amp, that might be awesome.
Anyway, I noticed Bachmann products are about 10% higher this year, I'm glad I ordered all my locos before the increase. Real problem is the feds dropping the prime rate just cost me about $5,000 lost income from my bonds, and money market dropped from 4.6% to 3.2%. We paid hundreds of thousands over the years in taxes, now they want to take away our retirement. Seems that veterans and retirees are second class citizens. I really sympathize with young people starting out in their careers, they have a tough row to hoe.
My college cost me about $5000, today that wouldn't even buy the books, I think they are now estimating $50,000 a year. Imagine starting a career with a quarter million dollars in debt.
I have a friend who constantly complains about his $2500 a month house payment, and that is only the first mortgage. I built what I could afford and glad to say it's paid for.
Complaining aside, I love our Country, our Flag and our Freedom.
Bob
Bob;
Too many people today live way beyond their means-electively. I know-as surely do you-that a lot of this manure storm with the sub-prime business could have been avoided not so much by the cessation of the rapacious business practices of lenders, but by the option of people out there to just use common sense and say "NO" to something out of their reach. Also, much could be side-stepped by people building up their credit rating instead of their credit card debt, "feeding the pig", and simply living within their means instead of trying to mimic TV families and other non-realities.
As an example of TV mentality:
Many years ago as a lad, I used to watch (listen to) Amos n' Andy on both Tv and Radio. I used to laugh because I thought it was funny. That was TV. And Radio. The first time I saw the realities of Jim Crow, especially the violence and the injustice of it all, I stopped thinking it was funny. It wasn't after all; especially that so many people assumed the inferrences of the sitcom as the nature of things, and in their mind it was reality.
At the Prototype Meet in Canton, Ct a couple of years ago, I overheard a modeller exclaim of a particularly pricey model "...Yeah; I need one of those. I think I will buy it!" He couldn't afford it. Petty, yes, but it is a peek under the curtain at what showtime is really all about. he "needed" it like a fish needs a bicycle!! I'm with you on paying what you can afford. Thirty five years ago, Steve Wynwood wrote a song called "The Low Spark of high heeled boys". Abstraction? yep. Reality? Ditto. The words are a parallel of what people have done to themselves financially, both in this country and abroad today. Think about it..."On the money he's made from your dreams..."
Canadians have groused about the disparity between their currency and that of The States for years, but who is really to blame here? The States? Canada? The Mideast? Many years ago, my father had a theory that a small group of people control everything financial in this world; a group who hides behind no flag, nor respects any group; political, racial, etc. I more and more tend to revisit his theory as time goes by; and every tmie I think of Jamaica, it becomes more and more visible and tangible.
Not meaning to toot my own horn, I bought two K-27 mikes this winter. I am buying rail this year, and setting up my own "amusement park". Am I in debt over it? Nope. Will I be? Over my dead body!! Those, as well as this hobby in general, is/was financed with proceeds especially earmarked for their purchase. Maybe that is the way America should start looking at things and quit the general jackassery of charging themselves into starvation; because, my friend, it can happen. And it will.
Rich
"The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams"
-Traffic
Low Spark of High Heeled Boys
If you had told me this morning that I was going to run into a Traffic reference on this board today, I would have called you crazy.
I've of two minds on the sub-prime mess. On one hand, I can sympathize with a young person that has been indoctrinated into a society that at virtually every turn preaches immediate gratification and an inflated sense of self worth and entitlement. A man pushes a $300,000 loan across the table at you and tells you, 'you're worth it, why wait, who says you can't have this?' and it's consistent with what you've been hearing your whole life.
On the other hand, people need to get a grip. 10 years ago when my wife and I bought our first home we went looking for things in the 120 to 130 range, because that's what we thought we could afford. When we went to the lender to get preapproved, he gave us a figure of 260. We actually laughed at him. (Well, not him, but his number.)
I have no point, so I will stop typing now.
Quote from: rogertra on February 25, 2008, 02:51:24 PM
Why this facination with sound?
Every sound equipped loco I've heard sounds like a tinney 1960s transistor radio. No exceptions.
I'm 100% convinced that people who go gaga over sound equippped locos have convinced themselves that what they are hearing is far better sound than what is actually there.
So go ahead, spend the money and in a year or so you'll be running most of your sound equipped locos with the sound turned off.
And Bachmann, NO SOUND should always be an option for those of us with ears that don't lie.
When I run my trains, the sound is always perfect.
Because it's all in my imagination. ;)
Traffic - "low spark of high heeled boys"
I still have my orginal copy of that record - yes record, round, black, vinyl - in mint condition (always played only on my top notch equipment) - along with about 1800 other album titles.
The proposed policies of Presidential Candiate Ron Paul would fix the dollar, make us all richer (at least those of us who work for our money) and end the suposedly unpopular war. Why is no one listening? - could it be they all want the government to "do" something for them and Ron Paul would simply get the government out of their way to let them do it themselves?
If the war was really the "issue", Ron Paul would be leading the race. He's the only one who really wants to end it.
Personally, I, like Rich, live well within my means. My house is paid for, my cars are paid for, my furniture is paid for, I actually own my investments and have money in the bank and the safe - and I am stocked up on ammo to defend it. Lessons I learnd from my parents and grandparents who survived the depression and WWII.
Many years ago on this board I took issue with a gentlemen who said he would not weather his locos in case he had to sell them when he got older. I commented that something like model trains was a poor investment and should not be bought with money one might need to live on.
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup truck and a gun.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Have you ever thought of transfering your vinyls to CDR? I have about 100 very old albums, including a complete classical collection, all mint condition.
I got this program called Rip Vinyl from England for $7.00. Spent last winter making CDs. You have to stand by to set the record level and turn it over. It makes tracks automatically. I even made a few bucks making CDs for friends at $15 a pop to finance my hobbies.
Bob
Sheldon;
Some time ago my insurance provider wanted to know if I had a burglar alarm in my house, and who installed it. Well, we all know I am an electrical contractor, but I decided to have some fun: I told him I have a fail-safe system; It is called a big black dog, long Uncle Louie, and "my little friend" (a sawed-off shotgun). I faxed that over to them, and within five minutes received a call from a very nervous lady-my agent, imploring me to please re-write it, leaving "your little sawed-off friend, your uncle louie and your best friend out of the letter!" The only ammo i have is salt-shot loads. I am not interestd in killing anyone, just stopping them.
RIch
We have signs posted at the ranch gates, a picture of Yosemite Sam with guns a'blazing, and the note "Don't even think about it you mangey varmint"
Others say "Beware of the Dog, she's always hungry".
Bob
I once had a sign on our gate that read....
"Salesmen welcome.....dog food is expensive"
Sid
Rich,
I don't care one way or the other about killing them, but my Beretta 92FS is loaded with hollow points, 16 of them, and another 15 round mag is laying right next to the gun.
Yampa Bob,
I have thought about it, and I even own the equipment to do it, but I don't know that I ever will. I'm not much of a "traveling" listener, for the most part I only listen to music when I can sit in my family room, in front of the speakers I designed and built, getting the full effect. So why would I need them on CD's? Just so I could degrade the sound quality? I think not.
Sheldon
Bob....
My email should show under my profile now. Use the shaw.ca addy....not hotmail....Lord, anything but hotmail...lol.
Sid
Sign at local pet store.
"Children not on leash will be eaten"
The Dollars buying power will go up and down . Sometimes it hinders some times it helps different sectors . But Living beyond your means is always unwise. Having said that , we probably should clean house in Washinton DC much more often and not elect incompetent self-serving BS artists. Regarding sound systems : I can't see the need . I have worked in manufacturing plants for over 30 years and don't yearn for more noise. If I wish to hear train noises , I just open a window or go outside . I live on Rairoad Street in Marengo ,IL across the street from a UP/CNW freight line going west to Belvidere. Trains come and go every 3 or 4 Hours loaded with auto containers. I even saw UP's demonstration train go buy. Check out theirweb site for more info.
Quite obviously the dollar drop is affecting the global market because of bad practice and this unstoppable desire for possession.
The housing markedt has gone through the roof forcing people to live beyond their means, feulled by publicity and this "fantastic" online fantasy tv world of home celebrities.
Regarding model railroading, here in Europe it is cheaper to buy stuff because of the favourable currency exchange but the problem with hobbies like this is that once they have got you you are under theri power: its an addiction!
What had shocked me the most from this interesting thread is that people can boast of having offensive weapons in thier home as if that is the roght thing to do. Are you so scared that you need guns loaded with hollwo point bullets? I think you should emigrate!
Pepe;
This past year (2007) we in Connecticut had one of the most tragic and heinous crimes one could commit, executed; not by an irate person, but by two known felons, who were-God only knows why-out of prison-where they belonged-deep away from society.
The town of Cheshire, Ct. lost one of its better families, and the incident shattered the father and husband, a well-known doctor in the state. These criminals had weapons, every criminal violation concerning violence is with weapons, either knives or firearms. These firearms are probably illegally got, so we can negate the great "to bear arms or not" debate.
You want to know why I keep a sawed-off gun in my house? You need a picture? I can send you one of that family. I have no signs on my property telling people with bad intent to stay off; I will not subsidize anyone's stupidity or wanton evil by doing so. If I catch you in my house without my prior knowledge or permission, I will hope you will have a really good excuse-and a fast one at that!
On my second day of boot camp, we were told by one of the drill instructors these words: "Self-preservation is the first rule of survival!"
That never left me, and is that much more in evidence today. An armed society? Yup. Did I make it that way? Not my choice, but when in Rome...Which-incidentally-is burning.
Rich
Rich,
Just out of idle curiosity, just how sawed off is it? You know that beyond a certain amount they are themselves illegal. I don't think that you can pay the $200 annual fee necessary for a full auto. Not good to defend home and family and then get arrested because your weapon is illegal.
Pepe,
I don't think Sheldon was boasting, per se, but rather drifting back to a discussion of a year or so ago. Just for your information, I have an M1911A1 .45 with army issue ammo. It doesn't need hollow points. I also have a .22 bolt action Winchester 95 which I received for my 11th birthday. I haven't shot either in years. At one time I was quite good.
Yes, this is another country.
All this said - the local news today is that a six year old boy was shot and killed in his home. It sounds like either he was playing with a loaded gun or his seven year old friend was.
In addition, a firearm is useless when the person doesn't know how to use it. I carried my issued .45 the first incident I was in in Korea. The next day I requested an M-14, which I carried for the rest of my tour. A little heavy, a little awkward, but I knew how to bring effective fire with it and I didn't at the time with the .45.
Gene
Gene
A few thoughts,
It is tragic when irresponsible adults do not keep guns, or any other dangerous tool, out of the hands of small children, BUT statisticly, in this nation of 300 million people, such tragities are actually quite rare.
Ah yes the M1911A1, one of my favorite guns, I'm going to buy one real soon.
Pepe, I don't know where you live, and actually it does not matter to me. I am very happy in this country even though it has changed in ways I am not happy about. It is still more free than any place in the world. I don't need or want to be cared for by any government and this remains the least Socialist country on the planet.
Self defense, by any means necessary, is a God given right and the natural order of things. The police can not protect you. It is very peaceful where I live, because many people do have guns and the bad guys know it. Unlike London where home invasions are epidemic since the criminals know that no one will fight back.
Sheldon
Don't worry Gene, you aren't getting any older at all !!...have you noticed on the news how many m-14's, now with scopes and a camo paint job insted of oiled walnut, are on patrol in the hot zones? I believe the 1st batch of 14's left the armory....51 years ago this month? .... just like New Haven FL-9's...pretty good life spans for failed experiments huh? Just came back from a wake for a ret. LT.Col. in the 104th/26th YD...some of the guys there today joined in 1936...... and drove home....
In reference to the limited sound you can get out of a 1" speaker, it is true it will only put out so much. But, the sound comes from the baffling, not the speaker. I disected a Bose radio and used its technology in HO speakers and you wouldn't believe the volume of sound I have came up with in a small place! You can not use over half the volume or it will give you a headache. And with small modifications on baffling placement, I can control the treble and base mix! I was going to start manufacturing these until I found out Bose wasn't too happy with that idea, so I guess I will just enjoy them myself. I get a kick out of people asking me how I get louder than O scale sound out of HO! I also already run them in stealth mode and only turn the sound on for demo, as its like trackside at a Nascar event!
One thing I have noticed about Bachmann's board, It is sure easy to get off of the subject. It would be nice if we stayed on the right track.
Hey chuffnpuff, did you talk to a lawyer? If this is as simple as it sounds, a deal with bose might be possible, either a royalty from your units, or you selling a model RR idea to bose for- royalties or? I guess there's always room for one more sound system... or a stab at one....
The idea of installing a bose sound system would be great if bose actually participates in doing so.
My worry would be that the addition of a bose sound system would price any sound loco out of the general market. As it is now sound is expensive, asking $450.00 for a K4 because it has sound in it and DCC is kind of ridiculous.
If a negotiation could be done and a bose system installed at a reasonable price then I say go for it, It's all the more market for bose if it can go wide spread.
chuffnpuff do you have a you tube clip of this sound system in operation I would love to hear it?
Clear Block,
No, I don't have a tube clip of it, but I was experimenting around with another idea before I started on the Bose idea that worked good. I used an old Vacuum cleaner handle, which has an inside diameter of 1", and used it for a baffle. I cut it into 2 pieces, mounting the speaker about center and made the whole length the length of the inside of a box car. I connected them together with JB Weld. The thin wall rigidity is the secret to the volume. You can adjust bass/treble by positioning of speaker in tubes. The more length behind the speaker, the more bass, but you have to be careful, as you only have about a couple of inches you can play with while adjusting sound. If I could locate some more Titanium tubing, like I had years ago, it would really improve the volume in this system, as it was as thin walled as sheet of paper.
Chuff,
It is very true that the enclosure has a lot to do with how a speaker sounds, I have designed many such systems and successfully built them.
BUT no HO loco has a large enough internal volume to allow any type of pipe, labyrinth (this is what Bose uses in the radio), horn, vented box, etc, to reproduce ANY tone in the lowest third of the frequencies that can be heard by the human ear.
The problem is not volume, the problem is tone - you know, base notes vs treble notes. Real locomotives make lots of deep base note noises - no two 1" speakers, in any enclosure that will fit in an HO tender, can produce a tone at 150 Hz, let alone one at 30 hz. So, to any one who knows the difference, all these sound systems sound tinny, like a stereo with the base turned off.
RAM,
It is called CONVERSATION - you are not the fourm police, if the Bach Man needs help moderating he will call you - don't hold your breath.
Sheldon
Sheldon, I didn't say I was the fourm police. I just made a comment.
Good Morning All,
I have not been on the board much over the past two weeks and just started reading this thread this morning.
I want to address the issue of sound. I agree that any manufacturer who is going to offer sound equipped engines should make a non-sound model available also
I also agree that the sound in models comes no where close to the real thing for a lot of reasons.
What I do not understand is the the tirades you guys go on that do not like sound. To what avail? If you do not like sound engines so be it. I cannot see the why, over and over again you same few just rail away about this subject.
Obviously, sound matters to more of us out here than you and that is why the manufactures are offering more and more products with sound. Kick back, enjoy you non sound engines and put more time in contacting the manufactures directly to express your views.
Respectfully,
Bob
Bob,
I can only skeak for myself. i do not consider my posts tirades by any standard. I do repeat my opinion from time to time when the subject is brought up because:
Many manufacturers do read these fourms.
Many who like sound fail to understand why anyone would not.
Just like my position on DCC, I am not against sound, in fact if I was modeling in a larger scale where it sounds better (not perfect, just enough better) I would have it in all my locos.
In the future I plan to experiment with layout based sound for HO to see if it can be effective. So I'm not anti sound at all, just anti squalky 1" speakers in HO tenders.
Thank you for your expression of the position that manufacturers should offer both. I'm sure lots of them monitor this and other forums.
Fact - Every manufacturer in this hobby that attempted a policy of offering only sound/DCC has retreated to offering both quiet DC and sound/DCC. I have no industry stats on sound loco sales, but I do have such info on DCC use. To date the industry estimates only 25% of modelers actively purchasing rolling stock/locos are using DCC. I would guess sound sales are not any higher.
While sound and DCC may be hot topics on here because they are new, and, admittedly many new people in the hobby are attracted to and interested in them, they are both far from "taking over" the industry or the hobby.
Have you ever been to medium sized layout with four of five of those things going at once - its an instant head ache in my opinion - at any volume.
Sheldon